Why Should Veno's Have a Ranged Pet?

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  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Tame pet still works to lure.
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  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I don't think so. I can go up to a mob which will chain cast, and hit it with a curse (to get a 10m distance), then summon the soft cactopod and it will run up to the mob a bit before it attacks. But I can summon the sting (or marksman) doing the same thing and it will attack from where I summon it. Really, I think tame level is a big factor in attack range for range pets. Not sure on the formula right now, but tat's what the data points towards.

    Wasn't meaning the difference between pod and eldergoth, but the minute differences (14.4 may actually be 15).
    LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Dont know about you guys, but I "used" tame pet to lure brigand/linus in the past. Dont know if that changed along with luring with genie skills.

    That's what I use on those, though I did lure the poison mobs by accident once. I actually rarely use a pet to lure anymore. I even get a little nervous because I get rusty.
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    What does OMA and OHT stand for?

    One Man Army and Old Heaven's Tear.
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Has anyone tried the Abominations of the Plain (apes east of Burning Heart/southeast of Thousand Streams Southern Outskirts)? Are they ranged or melee?

    They're either not ranged or not tamable if that's what you're getting at. There is an Eldergoth Archer with a significantly lower starting level than the Marksman in the database that may become available.
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  • Brael - Dreamweaver
    Brael - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,430 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    tweakz wrote: »
    Wasn't meaning the difference between pod and eldergoth, but the minute differences (14.4 may actually be 15).

    It's possible, that the pet moved somewhere between .6 and .8m (or whatever it was, I don't want to look back and check the possible range) closer to the mob than it had to, but I'm not really counting on it since I can't think of having ever seen that behavior before. Also, the other pets ranges aren't measuring out to a whole number so I'm not so sure it would have to be 15.

    What's really needed, is I need to tame a few more pets and test those distances. A ripe and jealous cactopod should help add to the numbers a bit, and make a formula (if there is one) a lot more apparent.
  • Stelacria - Heavens Tear
    Stelacria - Heavens Tear Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    So... any boss that would be easier being tanked by a cleric/archer/wizard/veno as opposed to a bm/barb right?
  • sweetpotatoe
    sweetpotatoe Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    tweakz wrote: »
    Incomplete list of bosses that you can range only (WIP):

    Calcid of the Flame (FB39)
    Chintien

    Hi,

    Are you sure it's Chintien that's range tankable (and not the drum boss)? After reading this, we tried this weekend to range-tank Chintien in TT1-1 squad mode and he ran up and meleed everytime. We tried both range tanking with player (using ranged spells) and using the eldergoth (with skills disabled). We've ranged tank many bosses in the past, so we're pretty familiar with range tanking, but Chintien would have none of it. On the otherhand we found that the drum boss was quite happy to be range-tanked.

    If Chintien is range-tankable, then is there some special trick to this?
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Tanking chin with a herc:
    Sometimes Chin will get pretty close, and be swinging away - but there's no deflect. Can take a couple of tries to reposition him to get the reflects.

    Which means that you're getting hit by magic, not physical. It's a really short range magical attack but I'm pretty sure it's there.
  • sweetpotatoe
    sweetpotatoe Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Tanking chin with a herc:
    Sometimes Chin will get pretty close, and be swinging away - but there's no deflect. Can take a couple of tries to reposition him to get the reflects.

    Which means that you're getting hit by magic, not physical. It's a really short range magical attack but I'm pretty sure it's there.

    I see. Normally, the bosses we range-tank actually stays at range and cast spells at us. Chintien on the other hand runs right up to us in melee range and starts swinging with his weapon, and it seems like the damage numbers coincide directly with his swings (at least that's what i recall, we'll have to double check next time).

    Because we were trying to range tank, we didn't put up bramble (for player range tanking). Next time we'll try putting up bramble to see if there's any reflect.
  • LinkAway - Sanctuary
    LinkAway - Sanctuary Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    tweakz wrote: »
    Incomplete list of bosses that you can range only (WIP):

    Calcid of the Flame (FB39)
    Chintien
    Empyrean Slither
    Slitt
    Suzerix
    Resentful Pyrosteosis
    Thousand Year Spirit
    Cenminator [World Boss]
    Chin, Mausoleum Watchman
    Hercule Trioc (FB39)
    Alphaleus [World Boss]
    Qingzi (FB29) [at level 45+]
    Blackhole Devourer
    Raving Drake Brute (FB59)
    Qianji (FB59)
    Soul Hunter [World Boss]

    Many of these can be lured by a normal pet, since i'm luring them with Kowlin (Drake, Qianji, Qingzi, Calcid, Hercule, Pyro ...).

    Edit : wow ... misunderstanding lol
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    LinkAway - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Many of these can be lured by a normal pet, since i'm luring them with Kowlin (Drake, Qianji, Qingzi, Calcid, Hercule, Pyro ...).

    That list is for bosses that a ranged pet can tank. That is not a list of bosses that can be lured...
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  • LinkAway - Sanctuary
    LinkAway - Sanctuary Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Woaah i'm sorry i must be tired :P
  • ROBINGIRL - Harshlands
    ROBINGIRL - Harshlands Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    that will sound dumb, but how u get these pets to do ranged? i just tried with both sting and eldergoth and all they do is getting to melee range and mele...
  • Lenn_ - Sanctuary
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary Posts: 507 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    turn off their skill by right clicking the one with a box around it, dork.
  • ROBINGIRL - Harshlands
    ROBINGIRL - Harshlands Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    turn off their skill by right clicking the one with a box around it, dork.

    thanks : )))
  • azhdeen
    azhdeen Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    b:cry
    I_Love_Pets - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    good info umm just a slight few error being this marksman hits at the 7meter range or so b4 lvl 90 as mine at lvl 70 hits at 7.3meters i think tho ingame being hard to diferntiate also i can do things with kowlin tho that you cant do period luring with a marks man that being i do FF/FC take your pick of said name for forggoten frostlands but the mobs that do "kite" dont for kowlin end of story as kowling being to fast he does hit them even if they run unless you have already lured a mob and the others from said group are on what i call "alert" status as the react faster to pets and such for about 1min after or so and the marksman cant lure a mob in FF properly because of it w/o dying unless you wait till they stop with the "alert" status kowlin can be sent in to lure any mob in FF except the flying ones thats it as they stay put and even then the marks man only can hit the first set and once you get to the second set after the room with both galax mobs that go back and forth and the "rider" mob at the end marks man cant hit them from what ive seen as the seem to be to high but my marksman is good for that but to me thats it as i can lure any mob ingame w/o being hit "unless its a WB ect" and unsummon and send hurc in b4 i get hit or my kowlin dies and my kowlin wont be hit either if i dont lag most times i dont either its how i solo lure in TT1-2 all the way to 2-3 and yes kowlin CAN lure Shooting Aur and YES i can summon hurc b4 anything happens to me and YES i do know how to do this being this is what you do as i dont perfer to have clerics all the time in TT so i select said mob i then TURN OFF all attack skills i send kowlin in and back up like you do with your marksman this tho being quite likly the difference as my kowlin gets to him hits him and i already have unsummoned my pet and am summoning hurc then i hood and buff hurc an send him in that's that as i reposition myself inbetween heals behind a crystal box and i only need to heal 1 time every 2-3 hits so i am fine anddo use kowlin very effectivly also as i mentioned b4 "kiting" mobs cant kite from kowlin b4 he gets to them if you do it this way as he wont reset for quite a far range unlike the marksman so i can send kowlin in and not worry and as it is more times kowlin hits them b4 they even do "kite" so then they "kite" while i unsummon and resummon lol end of story marksman being yes a decent lureer and tank in
    "some" situations but not in a lot of them if you know how

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  • Aliella - Harshlands
    Aliella - Harshlands Posts: 191 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    b:surrender i had the eldergoth marksmen for a bit and i , personally hated it because it died to easily then it got me killed because i couldnt summon my other pet fast enough to take agro off of me. b:shutup i've been lvl60 for a bit and i've been testing out kowlin and i dont think hes that bad b:surrender i've been luring alot with him to test out his luring possibilities and it never failed me with the luring and it got the mobs off me fast enough that i didnt die b:shutup this is just one venos opinion tho
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Aliella - Harshlands wrote: »
    i had the eldergoth marksmen for a bit and i , personally hated it because it died to easily then it got me killed because i couldnt summon my other pet fast enough to take agro off of me. b:shutup i've been lvl60 for a bit and i've been testing out kowlin and i dont think hes that bad b:surrender i've been luring alot with him to test out his luring possibilities and it never failed me with the luring and it got the mobs off me fast enough that i didnt die b:shutup this is just one venos opinion tho



    The Marksman has better mdef, pdef, and HP than a Kowlin at level 90. Sorry, but the kowlin gets on all 4's for the Marksman. b:chuckle
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    tweakz wrote: »
    The Marksman has better mdef, pdef, and HP than a Kowlin at level 90. Sorry, but the kowlin gets on all 4's for the Marksman. b:chuckle

    Yeah, I found that the marksmans survivability gets a lot better as it grows. It still dies far to easily, but it's better than it was.

    The kowlin kills stuff. Very very very quickly. But it dies.
    The eldergolth does... special stuff. Which is making it a pain to level up. I may end up resorting to mouse (or tideborn miceworms) bashing.
  • sweetpotatoe
    sweetpotatoe Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Tanking chin with a herc:
    Sometimes Chin will get pretty close, and be swinging away - but there's no deflect. Can take a couple of tries to reposition him to get the reflects.

    Which means that you're getting hit by magic, not physical. It's a really short range magical attack but I'm pretty sure it's there.

    Just thought I should add an update. I've killed chin around 30 times with my herc in TT1-1 squad mode since I last posted (I didn't have one at the time) and I've never seen him not reflect. At least for me, I've never been able to range tank Chin as he goes to melee everytime ... even when I try to range tank him myself with spells.
  • Lilanella - Heavens Tear
    Lilanella - Heavens Tear Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hmm, I tried a marksman, and it didn't seem to have a ranged attack, it always went up to the mobs and attacked. Did I do something wrong or something?
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Lilanella - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Hmm, I tried a marksman, and it didn't seem to have a ranged attack, it always went up to the mobs and attacked. Did I do something wrong or something?

    Read post above b:surrender
    Lenn_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    turn off their skill by right clicking the one with a box around it, dork.
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  • Lilanella - Heavens Tear
    Lilanella - Heavens Tear Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Read post above b:surrender

    Oops, didn't see that b:surrender
  • FoxyCleo - Raging Tide
    FoxyCleo - Raging Tide Posts: 290 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I really like the Marksman. It was a great option at Qingzi, and I still use it to help my faction mates with their FB29. Having a bit of a hard time keeping all my pets at my level tho. Wanderer, Sawfly and Marksman are hard to keep close.
  • JanusZeal - Heavens Tear
    JanusZeal - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,852 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ranged pets like the Celestial Sting are very useful in FF for the heads. However, it often glitches when pulling certain bosses like Wurlord and it can pull a whole army of 'em. It particularly seems to bug on ranged pulling on the first set. There's really no way to mitigate this either as there is no consistency to this error coming up and seems like being a gamble over the quick pull pet like a Kowlin or Petali.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Tanking chin with a herc:
    Sometimes Chin will get pretty close, and be swinging away - but there's no deflect. Can take a couple of tries to reposition him to get the reflects.

    Which means that you're getting hit by magic, not physical. It's a really short range magical attack but I'm pretty sure it's there.

    if it doesnt reflect it doesnt mean that is magic attack. stygean for example is ranged but physical attack and pet doesnt reflect damage

    havent checked this thread in a while but here we go
    that list of tankable WB's is made by using unskilled pet or the one with strong and protect/claw/bash? if ppl claim that range atk is magic, why do you use strong? also bash is a melee skill, why do you keep it on marksman?
  • Havilah - Sanctuary
    Havilah - Sanctuary Posts: 212 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Bash is kept so that you can still grind with the eldergoth. As for strong, I'm guessing it's always good for luring purpose, dealing better with archer mobs and any random stuff the game throw at it?
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    kenlee wrote: »
    if it doesnt reflect it doesnt mean that is magic attack. stygean for example is ranged but physical attack and pet doesnt reflect damage

    True. And also true that I've not seen Chin do it recently. Maybe something changed, or maybe the herc has to be very unlucky and stop right at the edge of its melee attack.
    havent checked this thread in a while but here we go
    that list of tankable WB's is made by using unskilled pet or the one with strong and protect/claw/bash? if ppl claim that range atk is magic, why do you use strong? also bash is a melee skill, why do you keep it on marksman?

    Eldergolths come with bash. It is indeed useless when range-tanking with them. But so is just about every other skill.

    As you say - strong won't help you against magic attacks. As you also say, not all ranged attacks are magic.
  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    true, probably they have phys atk too but the purpose was to kill bosses that hit only with magic becase herc can take care better at those with phys atk.

    i know it comes with bash but imo i would replace that with tough. he also have a herc and its better for grind than ape imo
  • SupaRoyalty - Lost City
    SupaRoyalty - Lost City Posts: 516 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    they can be replaced by far superior pets like the Herc, or Nix (both easily obtainable before level 80)

    If your doing your dailies every day and upgrading all your skills there is no way in hell it's easy to obtain a Herc/Nix before level 80.
  • tweakz
    tweakz Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    SupaRoyalty - Lost City wrote: »
    If your doing your dailies every day and upgrading all your skills there is no way in hell it's easy to obtain a Herc/Nix before level 80.

    If you're not great at merchanting, and you're not cash shopping: doing Crazy Stone and World Quest is crazy. Those dailies are a good way to produce fails or generate a need for cash shop.
    kenlee wrote: »
    true, probably they have phys atk too but the purpose was to kill bosses that hit only with magic becase herc can take care better at those with phys atk.

    i know it comes with bash but imo i would replace that with tough. he also have a herc and its better for grind than ape imo

    For luring / mag tanking purposes, Tough would be better than Strong. I put strong on mine for grinding, but would probably prefer Howl or Tough. Hoping a better use for Strong will come up.
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  • kenlee
    kenlee Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    yea i use ranged pet too for lure but cactopod since it has a better range and works ok imo.
    have you tried any higher TT bosses, especially those that aoe or sleep/whatever, with your ape? i would try with mine but it has no strong or protect so might be 1 shot...

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