Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think every point there is to be about them being game breaking or not has been stated, is it really necesary to continue an asinine thread for ...82 pages? This thread and topic has been beaten to death, and its corpse mutilated multiple times beyond recognition. Please mods, lock this thread!

Baraya - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Venos aren't overpowered but they are good survivors in PvE while other classes struggle. I think this is the real reason for the envy. Give the other classes ways to stay alive easier (without the cash shop) and the complaints will slow down. Of course we do have the genies coming soon. b:laugh

Hazardus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually I'd like a cash shop equivalent for other classes. Even with spending or grinding up $200, there's nothing for other classes thats as good as a herc is to a veno. And don't tell me to +12 refine items, venos can +12 refine too FYI and more easily so than other classes, due to their uber soloing capabilities.

EDIT: And for those saying roll a veno yourself. Thats BS, one should play a class cause they like it, and all classes should be balanced (more or less).

Literature - Harshlands wrote: »

Venos are only OP when the server doesn't lag.

Mistigris - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Noone wants a veno in their party for almost anything except bosses, at least in my experience. Zhen parties? Never.

Mistigris - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This has probably been said but I'm not reading through 83 pages to make sure because I'm lazy. I think that hercs and phoenixes make venos overpowered, especially since they're everywhere. I think the sale of battle packs should be ended to make them actually legendary and not everywhere.

As for soloing TTs and FBs... yes, higher level venos can do this. The trade off? Until you're high enough a level to solo a TT you don't get many opportunities to TT at all unless you have a lot of friends. Noone wants a veno in their party for almost anything except bosses, at least in my experience. Zhen parties? Never. Yeah we can grind higher mobs solo but that's much less fun than playing with a group of other people. Until you make a lot of friends, life as a veno can be pretty lonely.

As a somewhat shy person who doesn't make friends easily, I do enjoy my veno simply because I can play by myself if my few friends aren't around to squad with since I have problems squadding with strangers due to my shyness. I still feel I'm missing out on a lot of the social aspect of PWI though, because even when I try to squad with other people I'm ignored most of the time.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The point of this thread is to come up with a list of advantages and disadvantages that each individual class holds. In a separate thread, there was an argument that the advantages given to venomancers far surpass those of other classes. I'd like to take that argument into its own dedicated thread.

There are two possible outcomes:
1.) The list shows that every class has an equal balance of advantages and disadvantages. Us, the people who argue that venomancers are overpowered, essentially lose the argument.

2.) The list shows that venomancers do indeed have advantages that outweigh the advantages of all other classes. Us, the people who argue that venomancers are overpowered, essentially win the argument.

If done correctly, this thread will PROVE beyond the shadow of a doubt that venomancers either are or are not overpowered. That will allow the people who argue over this issue (as you all love to do so often) to have a reference to point to, which will stop the arguments and flaming in their tracks.

So, without further ado:

THE LIST

Blademasters
Advantages:
- The best class for taking on multiple mobs at once due to heavy armor + loads of AoE spells (?)
- Can solo mobs 20-30 levels above their own, depending on mob type
- Fast leveling

Disadvantages:
- AOE's limited mostly to axes
- Weak against magical mobs
- Skill points have to be spread out over atk, dex and vit, so balancing them can be tricky

Wizards
Advantages:
- Highest single attacks of any class
- Possibly the most feared class in TW's

Disadvantages:
- The weakest physical defense of any class, incredibly hard to solo with - might as well forget about some bosses
- Long cast times, leaving them vulnerable and defenseless
- Clerics can heal and buff better than wizards, and have faster-casting spells that do nearly as much damage - why roll a wizard then?
- Difficult in PVP due to flashy attacks, long cast times and low HP

Archers
Advantages:
- Hits criticals more often than any other class, crazy damage as a result
- Uses both physical and magical attacks
- Strong against all classes in PVP, backed up by the majority of the top PVPers in every server being archers

Disadvantages:
- They miss more than they should (?)
- Completely unable to solo higher-level bosses, at least not without being at a level far above the boss
- High damage can grab aggro from bosses, thus leading to instant death - this forces archers to hold themselves back on bosses
- Only class without an HP recovery ability

Clerics
Advantages:
- Heals and buffs, oh my
- Very powerful magic attack
- Looong stun skill
- Possible the most sought-after class in the game for parties
- Both physical and magical attacks, making them flexible against opponents

Disadvantages:
- Drains mana quickly due to all that casting, buffing, etc., not to mention Plume Shot isn't exactly low-cost
- Squishy, but ability to heal + buff better than anyone makes this not so bad (?)
- Responsibility to heal the group makes leveling difficult, might spend most of the time healing instead of nuking that FB boss (thus getting less exp from it)

Barbarians
Advantages:
- Usually highest HP, physical defense of any class
- Tiger form makes this even better, and enables them to run much faster
- Great versus magical mobs - Alacrity of the Beast cancels channeling of opponent

Disadvantages:
- Lacking in damage due to focus on vitality over attack, also low dexterity makes this even worse
- Repair costs through the roof due to soaking up loads of damage on heavy armor

Venomancers
Advantages:
- HP and MP-recharging skills
- Stun skill that does not miss, does not use chi
- Phoenix = gigantic advantage in PVP that no other class has
- Pets are able to pull single mobs out of groups, which all other classes are usually forced to avoid
- Huge money-making potential due to being able to solo TT and more when others cannot, pets make this possible
- Fast leveling

Disadvantages:
- Squishy - this can be negated in PVE by simply using a pet, but they can be 2-shotted by an archer in PVP
- Cost of phoenix and herc is huge
- Mediocre at PVP - this is proven by statistics showing that most of the top PVPers of each server are not venos, phoenix or not

Here's some tinder for the fire: ONLY VENOMANCERS can solo TT at 70, and tank, both with relative ease. That's not fair. Most other classes would be utterly demolished trying to attempt such a thing. Archers and wizards might as well consider it impossible. The advantage given to venomancers makes them overpowered. PROVE ME WRONG.

Edit: One possible solution has been proposed! One of the biggest complaints about venos is the the phoenix and herc, which can enable venos to PVP like fiends and tank bosses solo, respectively. Instead of altering them (which venos do NOT want to see happen), what if every other class were given a $200 optional item or two which could compare to a phoenix or herc? This way, the venos and their pets would not be altered, players of other classes would have something that could compare and thus would likely stop complaining, AND it would make more money for PWI. If you agree or disagree with this, PLEASE add a comment about it. Thank you!!

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

I
You say elite pets are overpowered. For the price they have they actualy should be tougher then any other pet. And think about it... they don't help that much... you do stuff with them only a little better or earlier then you could do with a normal pet.

You also say that they have a huge advantage because they have pets. But let's think a bit. A veno can take only a couple of hits from a mob before dying. How can a veno protect itself? Archers have the barrier, clerics have the shield, buffs and heals, mages have a heal, bms have heal, barbs have regen. What does a veno have? a skill that can be used every 300 seconds. Take away the pet and a veno is useless.

You say they can make a ton of money... it's true... they make more then the rest of the classes. But think about the upkeep. Pet food: although it doesn't cost much... you have to feed your pet every 5 mins. Pet skills: to lvl a pet's skills to lvl 5 for all 4 skills you'll spend a couple of mills. Not counting you have to unlearn the skills that you don't want and learn the ones that you do before you level them. Add to that that a veno needs an absolute minimum of 2 pets (air and ground, water isn't that important) and you get over 5 mil in cash only for the pet skills... no other class needs that money and they can spend it how they want.

Venos can catch rare pets and sell them for a lot of money. But have you ever been to one of the rare pet spawns and see what it looks like?

And think about it... venos are good for solo... but kinda useless in zhen, aoe parties, pvp is good for venos only because of the bug. If they finaly fix the bug veno's will drop out of the map pvp wise.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

haha. yes that is a rebirth order gamma

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

I don't get you guys. What's with all this threads about venos. Think a bit:

Pulling: this is effective only for bosses, fbs or TT. In grinding situations it takes too long to pull out a mob out of a group for this move to be any usefull. You have to go max distance, send pet to attack, store pet, resummon and then have it attack the mob again before you can attack with spells. So by the time you actualy lure one mob out you can just move to a single mob and kill it. And don't complain about the pulling as in fbs you kick out of the team a wf who doesn't know how to lure. You benefit from that more then the venos.

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

You say elite pets are overpowered. For the price they have they actualy should be tougher then any other pet. And think about it... they don't help that much... you do stuff with them only a little better or earlier then you could do with a normal pet.

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

You say flesh realm is overpowered... but this is the devs fault cause they don't fix the bug. If an archer skill was bugged so it crit everytime you say you wouldn't use that to your advantage? Same goes for every other class and skill. Don't say venos are overpowered because of this... say the venos are bugged. Blame the devs not the venos.

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

You also say that they have a huge advantage because they have pets. But let's think a bit. A veno can take only a couple of hits from a mob before dying. How can a veno protect itself? Archers have the barrier, clerics have the shield, buffs and heals, mages have a heal, bms have heal, barbs have regen. What does a veno have? a skill that can be used every 300 seconds. Take away the pet and a veno is useless.

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

say they can make a ton of money... it's true... they make more then the rest of the classes. But think about the upkeep. Pet food: although it doesn't cost much... you have to feed your pet every 5 mins. Pet skills: to lvl a pet's skills to lvl 5 for all 4 skills you'll spend a couple of mills. Not counting you have to unlearn the skills that you don't want and learn the ones that you do before you level them. Add to that that a veno needs an absolute minimum of 2 pets (air and ground, water isn't that important) and you get over 5 mil in cash only for the pet skills... no other class needs that money and they can spend it how they want.

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

And think about it... venos are good for solo... but kinda useless in zhen, aoe parties, pvp is good for venos only because of the bug. If they finaly fix the bug veno's will drop out of the map pvp wise.

So your overpowered veno is actualy a char good at some things and bad at others.

Quetesh - Lost City wrote: »

I have no ideea why you argue about venos and not about archers crit, priests sleep and paralyze combo with mag/phy debuff. Or about a barbs insane amount of hp... or any other classes strong points.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

xD LOL. You obviously have NOT seen sancs TT prices. Those same mats shes selling are like 250-300k, and 1-3 mats are even less.
I get about 10 tome frags (100k ea) couple immac gems (couple hundred k to couple mil ea) and tons of coins on top of it. How is that -not- more profitable than TT?