Archer class dead?

I'm an archer main, full deity and do have a +12 +40 atk lv GoF bow, only 3 on this server have gof bows i think and the other 2 are +70 xD.
I agree with posts saying archers are not as weak as people make them out to be, but they are not nearly as strong as others make them out to be either. In arena, teh story follows the same script in pretty much most cases. See archer, focus them untill they are dead or have exhausted every skill lel. I still use my purge bow mostly for arena over my GoF bow simply because purging has a higher kill potential for not only me had I used GoF, but for my squad too. Also i'm the only one that can purge rofl.
Archer's gof dmg isnt really anything special on equal footing unless you are rb1/2 NP, which I am 'nearly' at but... Astrid (:
Yes, Zerk crit still does a lot of dmg and archers are able to cycle skills in very quick successsion now due to argent glyphs which in my opinion is their main strength atm
I honestly think most archers, if possible should focus on trying to get their phys pen up as much as they can. Being able to have near 6k phys pen with a maxed glyph and Ulti will be what peole have to watch out for. I'm not too sure about having mag pen for metal skills, never really tested, if anyone has, lemme know xD.

A revamp on some skills would be nice too, such as having quickshot quckshot doing dmg twice as the animation clearly shows 2 arrows launched. QS could be our equivelent to sins' Life Hunter, short cd, burst dmg.
Winged shell is literally the worst skill so that needs to change.
Remove or lower the chi cost of whisper shot and it would be pretty nice.
Galvanic aura is nice, but I would prefer the 25% crit rateto be an increase in Crit dmg instead
Ataraxia (Stealth) should imo instantly refresh teh cooldown of WoG, Alacrity and both our leaps. Buffs should not take us out of stealth. The movement debuff can stay. Would also be nice to have a preemptive strike add to it which guaruntees the first atk out of stealth to do double dmg or whatever. A lot of wishful thinking here >_>
Just some of many suggestions xD

One thing that really bugged me is that we are Elves and yet we do half dmg with our wings on ground targets. If anything we should do bonus dmg from any position higher than the target. OH, remember flight mastery? yh, give that as a passive for all wings, not just base wings, because we are winged elves >____>
Maybe give us the ability to move and cast skills too, at the cost of idk, accuracy

Despsite all teh things I can rant about, I still have a lot of fun playing archer xD, i wouldnt trade classes if given the choice

jsxshadow wrote: »

Mpen is useless for Archer since it's just physical damage thats being transformed into magical damage. Otherwise Archer's ulti wouldn't increase the damage of all skills.

I just tested this claim and it's not true. Physical penetration has no benefit for archer metal attacks.
Proof with a lv1 bow:
​​

saxroll wrote: »

asterelle wrote: »

jsxshadow wrote: »

Mpen is useless for Archer since it's just physical damage thats being transformed into magical damage. Otherwise Archer's ulti wouldn't increase the damage of all skills.

I just tested this claim and it's not true. Physical penetration has no benefit for archer metal attacks.​​

Its a shame this testing is going to waste with Joe. Last time he was encountered with math/formulas he yelled the formulas to be wrong, how he knew the right formulas but never provided anything, only acted if he was right when math clearly showed otherwise.

That being said, I feel most ppl assumed p.pen to not work on metal skills cause they are metal. I do appreciate you going trough testing and confirming this however.

There is a difference between people riding on formulas, completely neglecting diminishing returns and actual footage displaying pure damage xD In the former discussion..there was no proof. Just "blablabla those formulas are listed in the wiki hence they are correct" and other nonsense like that.

As I've said, it's been ages since I've tested this. I also tested it on seeker and mpen didn't work on their metal skills as well. Usually I test with lvl1 weapons as well, could be that I forgot to do that and got the damage range confused, or they just changed it again. I don't rely on Penetration either way.

BTW: Way to go guys. You are just like my GF. I give you a wall of text and you focus on the least important, negligible part of it xD

I wouldn't call it opinion, it somewhat is but "experience" would be more fitting.

I struggle hard vs people that outgear me on my Archer as well. I also struggle hard vs classes that are just too tanky and can still kill due to debuffs/combos/massive CC.

However, I do not struggle vs classes of equal gears with balanced out gear setups. Any caster that is just drakeflame stone'ed, full +10, CF set, decent chart (same as my archer just with vit stones) is 2-3 shot or maybe even just a charmbypass (with ulti). Barely imbalanced in favor of the caster.

As this game has alot more offensive options..keeping this balance isn't really hard. If full serenity, no pattack chart'ed (so full defensive built) archer struggle vs equal geared (literally) caster then yeah, they will have a problem. Archer need to be able to put pressure on their targets. A fight vs an archer has to be in a way that you have to watch out not to die in a few shots (which is the case on real equal gears as a caster vs an archer, not even counting in GoF cause that would be nearly broken for the archer).

What I see by the majority of the comments is that their def-built (or offensive power lacking) archer struggles to beat other classes which are def-built as well (and still the majority of people is jaded). Welp, acknowledge your weakness and work around it. Full deity, double pattack on chart and believe me...you won't struggle in 1v1s anymore and also in Mass-PvP you might be able to kill purged targets on your own. At least you won't be at a worse position than a majority of the other classes.

For example..try killing any jaded target (equal gears +cough+) that is buffed with a jaded psy. Alone. Yeah, good luck have fun. If it wasnt for Soul of Silence..psys would have it WAY harder killing anything compared to archer. They are tankier, yes, but that's that.

tl;dr: It is not an opinion but FACT that some class-matchups with Copy/Paste gear-setups cannot be considered equal because certain classes gain way more benefits from being extra tanky, while others have way more benefits from being purely offensive. I thought this was common sense but welp, hopefully people get it now and stop whining about their perfectly-fine class.

If we are talking about non-endgame fights, especially 1v1..then you can say that the lower the overall gears -> the stronger Archer get.

You see, the way gears in PWI scale is pretty weird. If you put a G16 wizards vs a G16 archer, both full +6, equal ornaments, etc with weapon +8 then the archer will have a way higher chance of beating the wizard since the damage output, especially if you already have all passives, a good chart and maybe some decent cards is significantly higher compared to what you deal on each other if both would be full r9, endgame ornaments, full +12. Full g16 Wizards can be lucky if they hit 20k pdef with Stone Barrier on + max 14k HP selfbuffed without endgame gears. A g16 archer can already reach upto 40k physical damage tho. Combine this with the lack of def level and you have a big problem as the caster. Sure, debuffs weight higher since the overall HP level is pretty low as well.

At this gear level, the chances for an archer to just charm-bypass the wizard with Stunning Arrow + Quickshot + Take Aim is ridiculously high. Sure, the wiz can kill the archer very quickly too, same goes for alot of classes..but since the archer doesnt need that much time or any heavy combo to nearly kill all the other classes (cept the obvious exceptions) he can play out his advantages (range, multitude of anti-stuns, fast skills, etc). Some skills that are not bound to ridiculously high base damage values are stupid OP on lower gear levels, such as BMs Blade Tornado, Clerics Aurora Skills, etc... and yes, Frost Splash as well.

If you are talking about being effective even with lower gears then yeah, archer are pretty useless with lower gears and especially if you don't have a purge weapon (which is available even on g13/15 so it shouldnt be a problem) since you die pretty damn fast from nearly anything. If I get attacked by a g16 archer, knowing he has no purge weapon then yeah, ofc I ignore that char. A g16 Duskblade would never be ignored, same goes for a stormbringer, veno and cleric. But this is just due to their insane skill-set/effectivity of skills that are unrelated to gears/damage. You can hardly compare an archer to them tho.

One way or the other...if we are talking equal gears than yeah, archer is perfectly fine. You can hardly overcome better geared people and your usefullness will dwindle down to being a purge-bot if the gap is too high. Still, I completely disregard anything that isnt equal gears.

As for the general strength...an Archer (with mainly argent glyphs on Stunning Arrow and the metal skills) can unleash a Quickshot, insta Take Aim and all 3 metal skills instantly casted within just the Stunning Arrow stun effect if Argent Glyphed with lvl5 or higher. All of those skills will be 100% crit (due to qucikshot with semi-endgame gears) (if they hit) and 4 of them are even without any def charm. IF you have the damage and deal 10k crits each shot...welp...if that isn't OP I don't know what is.

There is a quite similar geared archer in my faction (Crisis). Sure, he has a com set and 60k+ base damage and is full deity on his archer but...he can hit my Storm for 15k crits with his ulti on. No spark, no debuff, nothing. If I get hit by that combo up there I am dead if I don't proc purify spell or have genie ready...and that combo's CD isn't particularly long. Even without ulti..thats 12k crits per hit... The average endgame caster has 26-28k HP unbuffed these days. Even if you would have full josd, pdef selfbuff..you still get hit 7k crits at least..without debuffs. Get caught in that combo with ulti and maybe trip spark and you still and up being dead if you are lucky.

Try fighting an archer that can kill you extremely quickly and then tell me again how weak they are. Archer, which cannot put pressure on a target due to the lack of damage are negligible tho. That's just how it is.

jsxshadow wrote: »

Hard facts? Which? I havn't seen any in this thread aside of "QQ my class is so weak" which can be directly translated to "QQ I am a giant noob".

jsxshadow wrote: »

Show me just one post from anyone (aside myself) that doesnt imply the base line of "QQ I can't kill anything with my archer while I am at a disadvantage, whichever it may be." Cause that's all that thread is, really.

Excuse me?I did read you back and besides saying endgear archer do that...or saying how good you are at archer, you don't really bring anything concrete to the topic. You are probably playing archer casually since you have apparently a football team of characters. So far, people I have seen talking here, are actually playing archer as main character, and you're scaring them with you walls of non sense, hence, could you let the topic be?

You obviously don't wanna talk or face facts(and yet, I pointed out simple facts and really tried to not go further, I'm not seeing myself QQ'ing anywhere.) You are telling to people they are just QQ'ing while you are just playing your archer once a blue moon?Your experience is not legit from my eyes to talk about mechanics, you started archer roughly one year ago?You probably knew about them, but I can affirm you the game mechanics changed since 2009, and you was there....But archers are still running around with the same mechanics, and this is not the only class which should get a fresh breathe over all this dust.
Archer mechanics didn't change that much, and I can clearly feel many people are leaving the class to more effective class/more capacities. I will say it again, endgear isn't reachable just by wishing and it doesn't make a class balanced...especially when you have more efficient classes for a cheapest price!There for, reworking a huge part of their skills could be a solution.

Offensively, I really can't complain, especially with quickshot and metal skills....But I think you forget about your ennemies...I will write down situations which probably never occurred to you since you are obviously "a casual archer, asking for 1 vs 1 in wc and thinking archers are balanced cause full deities and g17 zerk crit bow archer are cool, whoever complain about a class doesn't know how to play it." [that's how I summary what I did read from you.]

-Most of equal geared ennemies don't die just by metal combo(Hi Def charms/Passives/spirit/bonus from glyph system) , considering most of seekers have their metal immune on genie(which make them pretty much unkillable by metal combo) and AA players having a bazilions of mag def, unless you proc purge, you don't take them down with metal combo that easily, besides clerics relying too much on their physical shield I guess.
-I do not consider stun arrow/aim low as killer skills anyways, after roughly 10 years, they are finally 100% accuracy!
-Frost splash with the said problem above, you can't really use it at his 100% effectiveness, well, it is for sure usefull in pv, it is too much luck based and it goes so fast, you really need to cast it at the right moment, but even NP archers don't kill people with it.
-Most important part of ulti actually stays the granted penetrations, it was useful aswell with quickshot (as a sage archer, I really enjoy the demon/sage version merged), nowadays I just use it to keep my target stunlocked while spamming quickshot, did happen I use the first hit and keep it for another target, just to get SoG right before it.

-Bloob vow is a joke...The time you cast it, any LA can just two spark and get ride of it, seekers just use Quid pro, AA's weap proc'ing... it's effective but not that much, if it'd be non-purgeable or with a smaller cd, I could understand, but it's clearly too easy to just get ride of it, besides for LA class, 3 out of 12.
-WoG- Para skills bypass the WoG Effect(db, sin, sb, barb, bm) cleric with SoG, myst with their plants(at least you can run away),a smart seeker can even control you over WoG, wizzard stealth/silent, WoG won't help you, neither against SoS buff from psy.
Obviously you can combine leaps to WoG but it's not an absolute skill that can guarante you you will survive.Leaps themselves stay kinda tricky with this ground and his micro pixelised mountain that keep you stuck into air if you get immobilized before...I once get stun by Xiyie while leaping away(with the status), it was pretty funny in any case.

-Blazing arrow is one of the most broken skills archer have, as said, and fortunately we have it, otherwise...even so it's not that awesome in PVE.
-STA nice?It was nice before the Purity of essence...I would even say before FSP even came out, if you need to AA into a vortex, you will obviously use this one...but try it on a solo target and tell me how nice it is with the new passive.
-BotC? Evasion isn't a thing anymore *sigh* and it won't make anything against AA classes neither against a fair part of bm skills...And our awesome wings of protection is even worse.
-Awaken, already said how long cd is, doubt I need to say more about it, we have ulti, then we have awaken, then frost splash...5min cd-5min cd-3min cd.We should add elven alacrity I, endwise, we have more cd on 4 skills than skills from one race.
-I do agree with you arrow of inferno is way too underrated especially with corrosive cold, though HP potions got upgraded and cleric using a better, quite better pumping life skill.

Skills you forgot?Winged shell, it could clearly be based on soulforce or Hp as Asterelle once stated, but it just handle one hit, against fire combo/seeker you sure can cast it before a leap, it is still a skill (which is) supposed to prevent you from os...considering even wind can blow it up, I do use it, but I won't call it effective.

I'm going back to my first point...Archer skills are outdated, you can still prove me wrong, since I'm bad at my class, I don't mind constructive point of view.

PS: I'm also from Da, I am pretty much not one of the best archer around, but I guess I'm doing fine with my current gears (non-updated mypers, here we go). I also know from experience a few people who rerolled from archer(as main character) to DB/SB/anything else , like DikkeJonko/Enough/Paparazzi/RankNine, and they were endgeared, I stick to my point, in term of mechanics archer should get a revamp, not to make them more OP than they are on some situation, but just a bit more updated toward this new era...It's not only an archer problem to be honest.

@dayk0u I don't think any of you guys have ever experienced an equally geared 1v1 vs someone that is capable of outplaying you with every single possible thing. Someone that knows your class in and out and knows what you can do in any situation of the fight. This is what is also needed from you if you wanna make any reasonable judgements about how imbalanced a class is or not.

Most of the skills you have mentioned are very strong...IF you use it at the right time. You expect all skills to be as OP and spam-able as those BS assassin skills? Don't be fooled. Assassins are broken beyond belief. Also please don't forget that a ranged DD has certain advantages melee DDs do not have so if you would to adjust archer in a way that you most likely would see appropriate then they would be absolutely broken in many aspects of the game.

People claim SBs are so strong, or Clerics, or Venos, Mystics, etc. ... Wrong. They are strong because you let them have your way. I've seen that many, many times. People complaining about how HoS easily blocks their combo but on the other hand they just stand there and take the beating without even considering using Will Surge, Fortify, Adrenaline Surge, HoS, SoF, Nullify Poison or Oxygen bubble. Also, most of you people seem to be heavily biased, giving the impression that you never have played any of the other classes or know little to nothing about them in general. You all act as if any other class is god-like and would easily wipe the floor with the archer class and that is not true.

@setexample You are being delusional. You blame your class and act as if it's too weak and demand balancing when in fact, archer are the most balanced class in the game. Other classes are the ones that are imbalanced. that lack of counter-possibilities for paralyze is imbalanced. Also, why do you imply that it's hard to figure out a class in it's entirety? Do I have to play my archer 24/7 to know all combos and possibilities? Does this game seem to be that hard for you? I might get rusty for not playing that class for a few months but then I just do some sparring matches and I am back up there. However, I also have experience with any class, know how to counter anything that is counter-able in this game and for that I don't need any warm-up.

People should finally stop thinking that you would automatically become one of the best of your class by just knowing everything about it and how to use all combos of that class. You could be the best archer there is but if you don't know how to counter what other classes can do you will still get destroyed. Focusing on one class is the single most influential mistake people do in this game. You cannot counter what you don't understand. You can't trick people or act at the right timing if you don't know the cooldowns and availability of their skills. If you are seriously not paying attention to all this and still win vs some people then, sorry to say, it's really all luck. There are points in a fight in which you can say for 99% that you will win or lose if you do it right.

Sure, it is easy to just blame it all on me and act as if I'm some arrogant ****. Much easier than even thinking about that the fault could possibly be on yourself. Besides, you now even started to act as if I'm fail and you are better than me? Seriously? If so then tell me this. Why is it so hard for you to grasp those easy, basic concepts that I've known for years? Why do you act as if the class is so weak when in reality you just fail to counter the other classes? I can. So who's the fail? If you are chanceless vs anything that is not a Duskblade or Sin then I suggest that you learn those classes and train a bit. Learn about timing, counter-possibilities and you will realize that you can win! MIRACLE!!!

PS: I for one am able to discuss topics objectively. I can take into account the average performance of PWI players and go off from that. I don't put into my own, subjective opinions as you may think because if you really wanna know what my personal experience is? Sure! If gears are balanced and there is a way for me to win then I will win. This is not because I am over-performing. No, no. It's because of so many biased clowns that barely know their own class hence outplaying them is easy as pie. Here are some examples:

1. You wanna beat my Cleric without Will Surge/Adrenaline Surge? Welp, since getting through SoG/Sleep is a given I can just bombard you with DoTs and your charm will never tick. Too easy.
2. You don't use HoS/Oxygen Bubble vs a SB and don't know that class? Sure, once AD/Faith is triggered I have 3 ways to OS you with DoTs alone.
3. You know you are tanky enough to survive my BMs damage except for when I use HF? Why don't you use evil ward then? I could never kill you at that point (cept if you are just LA/AA, GS does the trick too )!
4. You know that my Barb can hardly combo multi-paralyzes cept if ulti is ready and you know that I need para + CC + para to kill you? Why don't you use fortify to break free of my lock 99% of all times then?
5. And so on and so on.

Knowing other classes is tenfold more important than just knowing your own class. Don't limit yourselves and broaden your horizon and you will realize that the Archer class might not be the weakest of them all. Surely, with ridiculously broken classes like Duskblades and Assassins around, you can easily tell that they are not the strongest. Sure, but all you really want is to have a ranged Assassin or Duskblade so you can have an easy time too. You can deny it all you want but by all you guys' comments it's pretty obvious that this is exactly what you long for.

"Archer class dead" - my backside! Then lets call all classes dead that are not Sin/DB/SB, kk? GG WP.

I've made so many points that are just being ignored. You don't even see them, do you? Cause all you ever concentrate on in my posts is if I say anything that might make you feel attacked. My points about "equal gears are not necessarily equal" are being ignore despite them being facts (you can do the maths and probability calculations yourselves), same as my points about Archer vs other classes on lower gears and the disparity in defense and attack on different levels of gear and how they influence a class' performance.

Tell me..what is the opinion part about those points? Why are they not facts? Because you haven't tried it/tested it yourself? Absolutely ridiculous. But please provide video footage, showcasing how weak this class is and also provide gear info, genie, glyphs, chart, cards, stats in general and I will analyze for you how many mistakes you made and what you could've done better in situation x/y or maybe how could've even won. I'd gladly do that. Then we'll see if archer fail on "equal"-territory but since none of you know what "equal" really means I doubt you ever experienced "equal" fights.

@kalystconquerer#0876 Please don't bother CN with potential "improvements" for the archer class. sure some skills are useless and could get revamped but that doesn't mean that the Archer class is weak. There is a reason why Archer get nerfed again in the next update, ijs. If CN was to fix anything then it would be Sins and Duskblades (they do a little next update too, but more would be better). We need a counter for paralyze and we need them to reduce sins damage drastically. Those fixes would already help alot and would make it possible for even archer to beat them. People are missing the point since they just play 1 class. Tunnel vision, so to speak. They have no possibility to compare all the classes with each other. I do and I can tell you that Archer are fine the way they are. Endgame geared or not.

jsxshadow wrote: »

@dayk0u I don't think any of you guys have ever experienced an equally geared 1v1 vs someone that is capable of outplaying you with every single possible thing. Someone that knows your class in and out and knows what you can do in any situation of the fight. This is what is also needed from you if you wanna make any reasonable judgements about how imbalanced a class is or not.

Most of the skills you have mentioned are very strong...IF you use it at the right time. You expect all skills to be as OP and spam-able as those BS assassin skills? Don't be fooled. Assassins are broken beyond belief. Also please don't forget that a ranged DD has certain advantages melee DDs do not have so if you would to adjust archer in a way that you most likely would see appropriate then they would be absolutely broken in many aspects of the game.

[...]

@kalystconquerer#0876 Please don't bother CN with potential "improvements" for the archer class. sure some skills are useless and could get revamped but that doesn't mean that the Archer class is weak. There is a reason why Archer get nerfed again in the next update, ijs. If CN was to fix anything then it would be Sins and Duskblades (they do a little next update too, but more would be better). We need a counter for paralyze and we need them to reduce sins damage drastically. Those fixes would already help alot and would make it possible for even archer to beat them. People are missing the point since they just play 1 class. Tunnel vision, so to speak. They have no possibility to compare all the classes with each other. I do and I can tell you that Archer are fine the way they are. Endgame geared or not.

You don't think I have ever experienced?I did fight g16 people to full JOSD people(like Vyrrg I believe?less than 2 weeks ago) and a bazilions of equal geared people. Some equal geared people back in time capable of outplay me?Ruby_Inferno, Seeker_King, Wicked/Erx, rorifan, DonQuihotte... I'm talking about my whole experience, and at which point most of them and me were equal geared. I believe most of people playing for years also experienced the same cases.

Most of the skills I mentionned are supposed to be strong*, I just copied what you said about 19 skills being strong since you forgot their weakness(or didn't know about them?), aside from their long cd, the point still stands, they were realised ten years ago, I doubt we need to argue about it, do we?
Nowhere I have been saying they should have no CD, actually, lowering them or changing their effects to make them more updated with the current meta, nothing as OP as you may think/say, even less OP like sins, but it's not a sin topic nor db right here.

The only nerf Archers are getting are about glyphs if I recall, guess metal combo(and only argent)? If you just stick to these 2skills and quickshot...yea, rest of skills are useless, yet again, making archers sticking to 3 skills isn't giving any fun to any ACTIVE archer with outdated skills. It's not about beat sins and db, it's not like I don't care or anything, I'm just skeptical toward the effectiveness of archer skills by now and in the next future. For the little story, I do play bm, veno, sb, sin, wizz, myst, psy, seeker, cleric...never really get appealed by barb. And I doubt anyone here doesn't have at least a few alt on his own account, don't go around thinking you are the only one playing other classes to learn how they work.

Funny fact is you are playing archer the less, but arguing the most. You can sure change your genie skills before a 1 vs 1 if you know what you are going to fight, on the other hand, to be viable , you will get the skills you need the most to not get litterally destroyed and trust on your own gameplay for the rest. I myself don't blame a class for being OP, there are some which have obviously more advantage, idk, idc, I deal with it, but the game really need improvement, and giving out ideas won't hurt anybody especially if it's for the good and not for the worse. Your self-focused opinion isn't helping anyone, I don't skip your argues, some aren't directly adressed to me, some are right and I don't argue them, some I even agreed but you won't see it either...In any case, I doubt anyone need you to Learn them how to play their class.

@capnk Thanks! Didn't have any things under my fingers at the moment to test it out...and was definitely lazy, still nice to know, futhermore, I confused LA and HA in my post

I am curious to know how many people really bother to read Joe´s walls of text anymore.

I recently (past few months) have stopped playing my archer and started to gear a db, I enjoy the game a lot more now. Db works better for what I want to do and its more effective for the price, both are average gear at about r9s3 +10 or so. I just didn't enjoy archer anymore and figured that cn wouldn't be buffing them with the things they need.

setexample wrote: »

I hope pwi will see/understand this sooner or later.

PWE has no devs only china does and if archers are fine in china then they will not get any updates especially not pwi specific ones. It sucks but thats how it is and we gotta deal with it.

This thread turned out pretty exactly as I expected.

Experience Joe has with archer is flawed. He keeps talking bout equal gears and admits his archer is geared like garbage and yet fails to see the point he even touched himself. The higher gear level, the less kill pressure archer has. Basically he is experiencing that sweetspot of +12 offences vs +10 defenses. When ppl who complain have to deal with +12 defenses with the same +12 offensive options. Your damage is simply garbage and in order to kill anything even selfbuffed you kinda want deities, which makes you extremely squishy.

The point where Joe said how he hits LAs for 10k crits with metal combo just made me outright lol. You do realize purged LAs have 30k+ hp? AAs are 25k+ if I`m not mistaken. And you got CDs to deal with meaning you would have to deal full metal combo on already debuffed target to kill your target if they arent charmed. Much OP!

Lastly, most ppl arent as obsessed with 1vs1 as Joe is. Very limited amount of ppl bother themselves with class specific genies, making lots of his points just irrelevant. This game is not designed around friendly 1vs1s where you can pick perfect setup beforehand. You simply wont have room for most of them on allaround genie, which is what 99% of PvP on this happens in.

Edit: Dont get me wrong, archer is better off than it has been in ages but it still deserves a proper rework.

jsxshadow wrote: »

@saxroll However, as gear progresses up until max gears archer become stronger and stronger..heck nearly absolutely broken.

2nd rb NP, full devil stone, G17.4 with GoF, 2xpattack max apti/level chart. Offensive powers rise alot higher than defensive powers as gear improves to the maximum. I can imagine why CN nerfs the metal skills with the next update cause anything that doesnt have even remotely compareable skills will get evaporated by such an archer in a few moments.

And no, defensives and offensives have been equal in the fights I had. Vit stones vs drakeflames for example. Only way to improve for both players would be using josd instead of drakes and deity instead of vits. Now add survi due to refine and damage from chart and you are in an even better position as an archer. While you had to overcome decent pdef shards with no extra attack you now balance out the added shards completely. Hence you deal even more damage.

Yes I speak mainly for 1v1 because mass pvp...use stun + aim low as ranged support, support with metal debuff as well and purge. Anything else is not needed. So what you cant kill fully buffed engame players alone? Neither can most of the othwr classes.

In 1v1 I have no trouble surviving even vs people that heavily outgear me.Sure dealing enough damage to kill them might be a problem but asuming I catch up in terms of gear and go full deity I wilö stand there with loads more damage and even more defense and HP compared to +10 vit stones xD

How are you getting NP nowdays though w/o promo? Thats right, you arent. Good for the 5-10 archers that happened to have gotten it before promo went away but for the rest of us not exactly an option so throwing 2nd RB NP around is kinda pointless. As for rest of it, you`ll end up so squishy a LA melee class needs to **** near you and you drop.

No the offensive/defensive powers havent been remotely same. You have the buffer of vit stones, deities are in fact significantly squishier. Sure, you`ll also hit the target slightly harder as a result of them losing the p.def from drakes but the extra hp from refines will more than make up for it. As I said earlier, the higher the gear goes, the better defenses usually get. As a result you will struggle quite a bit more to kill ppl despite having deities because their hp pool just increases so much from +10 to +12 or least I dont really see drakes on +10+ refines.

There are least 4 classes who can easily dumpster fully buffed endgame people. I am sure there are other classes on top of those who can do it too but I dont want to derail this convo into argument on which class can do what. I did however say you kinda want deities to kill selfbuffed ppl, I didnt talk bout fully buffed endgame toons and you bringing up other classes struggling to kill fully buffed endgame toons is nothing but a strawman.

Lastly, I dont think anybody exactly complains bout archer defenses. They arent great but with mobility you got you really shouldnt be dumpstered too easily outside of couple classes. The main problem is we lack dmg output to assert pressure in PvP to be a DD class. If you dont have the dmg to kill your opponent, you are never going to win the fight, it doesnt matter how long you survive.