Archer class dead?

setexample

Ok so we all been playing the update for a while now and guess what this class still sucks. After the glyph improvements this class can’t do anything at all because of all the nerfs and neglects over the years they just don’t do enough damage to make any difference (You shouldn’t have to go full diety+12 to make it count). This class depends on purge so much that without it, it’s embarrassing even playing this class.

I give you that qs and lightning improvements has ‘’helped’’ but why the hell this class only limited to 4/5 useful skills. Most other skills are completely useless or outdated and serves no purpose. Do pwi devs even play this game and do they even test this **** out if they are doing so wtf is running through their head?

Please don’t give me **** like every class has their role and not made for 1v1. If every other class has access to G17 wep now what role/purpose this class has? Completely useless and nothing unique. ‘’Oh but they have so many anti stun’’ don’t make me lol, pwi has made it their mission to make anti stun another useless skill.

I challenge any archer to win a best of 10 battles against another class with similar gear/skilled level.

Consider equal gear and equal player skill.

Archer vs Db = Cry me a river > will be lucky if you can cast anything (even if u can, range nerfs, just pointless to even bother).
Archer vs Sin = maybe > if bow purges might stand a chance but they just stealth and rebuff, nothing gets through tilde anyways.
Archer vs Wiz = tiny chance > again wiz will win because of stealth tp and locks for days (why is this stealth tp even in this game, sins don’t even have this low cd).
Archer vs Cleric = don’t even bother.
Archer vs Bm = Must be high.
Archer vs Sb = Maybe > if you play your cards right.
Archer vs Psy = Sos for days > not to mention other things, go home.
Archer vs Seeker = Just no > Where the hell is the purge? oh wait you just got jerked [insert sad face]
Archer vs Mystics = trolol > you can’t even kill them with 2 people now sometimes.
Archer vs Veno = 2v1 > amp, stun, dead. oh wait but you can ad/ig get them close to death, pow they heal up fully..amp stun dead, just cry.
Archer vs Barbs = So much hp and deff, please give me a squad.

All things aside for the love of god stop **** with class and give them some useful skill (if you think they are op for some reason, just give them some non dd cc skills that will help them last longer) stop giving them gimmicky skills that does nothing and overall is a non-factor skill. Give them something unique so they can be useful in a squad rather than just whatever.

Otherwise just give all other class gm wep and be done with it, I have no interest in playing another class and as most archers now quit I’ll be one of them and never look back. (fyi most archers are big spender that is why they are doing big damage, why you have to buff up other classes to equal these people makes no sense)

coopoor

i play an archer the problem with archer is not enough range it is more a support class now with pwi ignoring the class archers need twice the range they have now but they are definitely missing something an if pwi doesn t do something soon i quit playing the class

shapoopi

learn to play archer. archer is one of the good class in this game now learn to use skills stop being dumb and using only auto attack

pdq314

If you're gonna whine, do it in the right place - PvP

kalystconquerer#0876

I'll go ahead and shuttle this guy to our PvP forums!

General musings - not too long ago, I saw a shift in people rerolling Archer because they were perceived as strong, what's happened between then and now? :O Did everyone who rolled Archer decide to go over to DB or return to their Sins?

setexample

Stupid commnets like this is killing the game because you have no idea wtf is actully happening in game for real. Also I have played this class long enough to know how this class works (since the beginning). Furthermore this is not whining this is a plea to save this class. Only a handful of us remain from old days, and once we are gone it will be a sad day for pwi. No money coming in, shut down rest of the servers combine them into one and watch it fade away. Carry on with ignorance because I am pretty much done.

setexample

Also going to put this out there, removing posts to a location not many visit just because the post is expressing something negative not going to stop people seeing the truth. People are not blind, Censorship never has worked and will not work. I have seen this happen to many other posts which basiclly shuts down the discussion on its track, that is sad.

capnk

If you can't kill a mystic with an archer, you're a terrible archer. Mystics are utterly destroyed by purge. All you have to do is run away until purge procs and then go for the kill.

kalystconquerer#0876

@setexample It's a PvP related discussion, so I jumped it over here. Discussions don't get shut down unless the thread gets too inflammatory (And I tend to leave threads rolling that have gotten much more heated). Usually, closing threads will not deter people anyways if they feel strongly about something as new topics get sprung up, but that's beside the point.

When it comes to class balancing discussions, that's something I tend to not take up with the devs, but it's nevertheless still something that we can pick their brains on to see what makes them change the classes the way they do.

setexample

capnk wrote: »

If you can't kill a mystic with an archer, you're a terrible archer. Mystics are utterly destroyed by purge. All you have to do is run away until purge procs and then go for the kill.

You must be living in the past or killing noobs, like I said take up my challange find a mystic with gear/skill level close to yours go 10 rounds and ''utterly distroy'' them. Dont just throw your stupid commnets around, prove it.

setexample

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

@setexample It's a PvP related discussion, so I jumped it over here. Discussions don't get shut down unless the thread gets too inflammatory (And I tend to leave threads rolling that have gotten much more heated). Usually, closing threads will not deter people anyways if they feel strongly about something as new topics get sprung up, but that's beside the point.

When it comes to class balancing discussions, that's something I tend to not take up with the devs, but it's nevertheless still something that we can pick their brains on to see what makes them change the classes the way they do.

I know you try your best I'll give you that, not having a go at you but I have seen many other posts been moved to a random location where no one goes. This stops discussions and doesnt resolve the issue, and we as a pwi community suffer. For example, this topic has nothing to do with Arigora Colosseum, why is it here? This a general discussion about this class to shine a light on the archer issues, as many of my archer friends are feeling let down by this class/pwi and giving up or quitting. As a person who plays this class everyday if I dont express my views and let the general community know who else will. I hope you understand and do somehting about it or minimum check up on this issue.

Yes posts need to be in their proper place but that person put it there for a reason, maybe move it after few days or after the discussion has concluded.

jsxshadow

Well, as I have faced many of these classes with my archer in a 1v1 already and have been outgeared massively in some of these (even before the recent update) I can tell you that archer have become incredibly strong. Equally geared...any caster class will get destroyed in seconds if its trully equally geared in a selfbuffed 1v1.

Have you ever witnessed the damage a full deity, GoF weapon archer can deal? Absolute insanity. Vs a GoF archer you don't even have to try as a caster because you will get rekt in seconds anyways (if the archer is smart). There is a reason why CN decided to nerf the insta-cast glyphs in their recent updates.

Granted, Archer that are not damage maxed (while still being on equal terms) have a problem. the longer a fight lasts the lower the archers chances of winning are. Barbs, Seeker, Duskblades and BMs will be nearly impossible to beat if you cannot pressure them with damage. Why? Because no matter how they are spec'ed (def or att) they have enough debuffs, CC, BS to kill you either way.

Archer are meant to be played as full glass cannons. Get as much damage as you can grab (aka deity+) and you will wipe the floor with any josd caster (if you are smart). there are several cases on youtube for you to watch that display exactly that.

Archer are not weak atm. Not in the slightest. Especially not with a g17 gof bow and damage spec. Hell no.

splendideyes

i still have to find an archer that deals dmg with NP set and zerk bow, there is a reason why the few archers in collosseum have such a bad score.

and dont listen to Joe, he cant even win on sb/barb.

kalystconquerer#0876

Some posts get moved by me (very rarely), the rest are moved by mods.

Arigora is the all encompassing PvP forums, and doesn't just cover the actual Colosseum feature - if the description isn't matching that, I'll go ahead and make sure that gets tweaked and updated accordingly with the person who manages our forums! There have been a few posts I do keep tabs on, but mostly it's anything buggy or wrongly localized stuff first, then I check class balancing threads.

I should put a disclaimer here - I don't main archer in any capacity, PvP or PvE, and my knowledge of the class stops short of what kills me as a Mystic or how they function in squad settings. For now, I'll err on the side of caution and would be more interested on the devs thought process first on how they balance and why. Then from there, if they'd be open to a dialogue about our versions differences, then we can take a look (but if I'm going to start that conversation I'll need to actually dig in and play the class first - no sense walking in being on the other end of the bow).

At least for something as delicate and as important as class interaction, hopefully this makes sense as to why I don't want to charge in demanding changes.

@jsxshadow but how many people are rocking G17 bows of that caliber? I was under the impression that there weren't too many.

setexample

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

Some posts get moved by me (very rarely), the rest are moved by mods.

Arigora is the all encompassing PvP forums, and doesn't just cover the actual Colosseum feature - if the description isn't matching that, I'll go ahead and make sure that gets tweaked and updated accordingly with the person who manages our forums! There have been a few posts I do keep tabs on, but mostly it's anything buggy or wrongly localized stuff first, then I check class balancing threads.

I should put a disclaimer here - I don't main archer in any capacity, PvP or PvE, and my knowledge of the class stops short of what kills me as a Mystic or how they function in squad settings. For now, I'll err on the side of caution and would be more interested on the devs thought process first on how they balance and why. Then from there, if they'd be open to a dialogue about our versions differences, then we can take a look (but if I'm going to start that conversation I'll need to actually dig in and play the class first - no sense walking in being on the other end of the bow).

At least for something as delicate and as important as class interaction, hopefully this makes sense as to why I don't want to charge in demanding changes.

@jsxshadow but how many people are rocking G17 bows of that caliber? I was under the impression that there weren't too many.

As far as I know there are no gof archers in my server, someone said there might be one but he never plays so I highly doubt it. That is the only thing that can redeem this class but dont forget if archers can get gof so can casters this shoudnt even be a factor atm (just imagine caster roling with gof+puri poc or untargetable in the future) archers dont even stand a chance. Right now archer need to be diety/jades+ to make some sort of impact.

setexample

splendideyes wrote: »

i still have to find an archer that deals dmg with NP set and zerk bow, there is a reason why the few archers in collosseum have such a bad score.

and dont listen to Joe, he cant even win on sb/barb.

Exactly, numbers dont lie.

coopoor

like i have said i play an archer for along time if pwi does ever do something with the archer class i would like to see more range cause once any class gets in close to an archer they in trouble an archer range isn t all that much more than a sins knife throw one in real live can t throw a knife pretty far but not as far as an arrow can be shot an until pwi realizes this the game for archers is flawed.

phantomforce#4598

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

Some posts get moved by me (very rarely), the rest are moved by mods.

And we typically only do this when it's obviously in the wrong forum.​​

setexample

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

Some posts get moved by me (very rarely), the rest are moved by mods.

And we typically only do this when it's obviously in the wrong forum.​​

My advice is to wait until the disscussions are over or at least wait couple of days before you wave your moderator stick around needlessly.

setexample

coopoor wrote: »

like i have said i play an archer for along time if pwi does ever do something with the archer class i would like to see more range cause once any class gets in close to an archer they in trouble an archer range isn t all that much more than a sins knife throw one in real live can t throw a knife pretty far but not as far as an arrow can be shot an until pwi realizes this the game for archers is flawed.

Also I do not understand why an archer has 50% reduction to damge at close range (on top of everything else) its 2017 come on why is that still in game. This class has too many negatives atm for people to even bother with it. If fully geared archers are suffering I cant even imagine what the lower geared people are feeling.

nunuator

Idk why ppl are crying about archers atm....

Archers are easily one of the if not the most broken classes with glyph'd skills....
Once you get lvl 10 glyphs for Thunder shock (Sanguine), stunning arrow (Sanguine) and Quickshot (sanguine) You can easily wipe the floor with them.

Purge quickly with maxed quickshot (100% aps increase) and then switch over to a 3rd cast G17 bow with GoF GG any class ez nuff. You can chain stuns and para with stunning arrow and thunder shock if you time it right and have a constant lock while you sit away from the targets.

+ If you're smart you can easily abuse db's with your wings of grace... (just make sure you tank the first lock or blow faith to get out of it)

darkfalconknight

nunuator wrote: »

Idk why ppl are crying about archers atm....

Archers are easily one of the if not the most broken classes with glyph'd skills....
Once you get lvl 10 glyphs for Thunder shock (Sanguine), stunning arrow (Sanguine) and Quickshot (sanguine) You can easily wipe the floor with them.

Purge quickly with maxed quickshot (100% aps increase) and then switch over to a 3rd cast G17 bow with GoF GG any class ez nuff. You can chain stuns and para with stunning arrow and thunder shock if you time it right and have a constant lock while you sit away from the targets.

+ If you're smart you can easily abuse db's with your wings of grace... (just make sure you tank the first lock or blow faith to get out of it)

What kind of world do you live in huh? This is the very reason why i quit doing pvp altogether and retreated to pve only. Cause the archer has become nothing more than pwis sick joke as well as tossed into the class abandoned junk heep. Psy's SoS- will surge only lasts like 6-8secs and that doesnt help kill them at all. DBs? forget killing those suckers since their lockdown paralyze neutralizes anyway possible to counteratk. SBs, just slightly and that is if you can block their water based skills with oxygen bubble. Barbs, need like 15-20 players to kill these high hp kittys and they hardly feel a thing since they more than likely will have 35-50k hp. BMs, most bms now days have like 25-30k hp and that is +12 vit maybe even 35k if their lucky.

Now lets go to the archer skills, Stun arrow- 3sec joke central, Wings of Grace- the 30% dmg reduction doesnt work at all vs someone whos +10-12 refined, Wing shell- one shot/time use only, Frost arrow, the animation is nice but it fires too fast so need to put it back to its normal channel/cast times. Plus need to also reduce the Cd on it to 1min. Sharpened tooth- hp reduction is a complete joke now to any class. Quickshot- 30% atk speed does somewhat help with the purge proc but still the proc happens less. So less pw can nerf the other classes to where the archer can compete against them, then anyone who rolled an archer will reroll another class (mostly a DB) or just quit entirely. And dont give me a feeding line about the G17 Gof Weapon, cause not everyone will spend their lifesavings just to get a weapon that is like over the hill costly. Plus not everyone has a G17 weapon or will make one cause of the amount of time needed to make it, so throw that idea out and trash it. So where have alot of you been lately in the boonies? the archer class is not the best class anymore the newer foreign classes are. Db, Sb, Seek and Myst. So dont come back on any one of us who have played an archer the longest and say "that you just lack skill," or "you need to be deity, josd +12" like if anyone of you guys saying that can buy that stuff for us than sure, otherwise get lost cause we dont have the luxury of time to keep up with a game that has literally killed off one of their own classes.

pdq314

setexample wrote: »

phantomforce#4598 wrote: »

kalystconquerer#0876 wrote: »

Some posts get moved by me (very rarely), the rest are moved by mods.

And we typically only do this when it's obviously in the wrong forum.​​

My advice is to wait until the disscussions are over or at least wait couple of days before you wave your moderator stick around needlessly.

I believe kalyst is the person who decides if it's off topic, and needs to be moved. I personally believe your moaning works just fine in the PvP section. If you don't agree, you're free to start your own forum somewhere. I'm sure there are tens of people deeply concerned about the evolution of this class in this game.

setexample

nunuator wrote: »

Idk why ppl are crying about archers atm....

Archers are easily one of the if not the most broken classes with glyph'd skills....
Once you get lvl 10 glyphs for Thunder shock (Sanguine), stunning arrow (Sanguine) and Quickshot (sanguine) You can easily wipe the floor with them.

Purge quickly with maxed quickshot (100% aps increase) and then switch over to a 3rd cast G17 bow with GoF GG any class ez nuff. You can chain stuns and para with stunning arrow and thunder shock if you time it right and have a constant lock while you sit away from the targets.

+ If you're smart you can easily abuse db's with your wings of grace... (just make sure you tank the first lock or blow faith to get out of it)

I seriously doubt you any idea about archers, 1stly no one has lvl 10s and it will take many many months before you can even get a single lvl 10, also if you are using Sanguine on thunder shock ik your failing already. This class is the least broken and underpowered class in game right now.

2ndly as I stated before not even a single archer in my server currently has a gof bow and not many will make s3 +10-12 therefore it wont have the damge you need in the first place. (other classes can have gof too and most classes have gof already)

3rdly abuse db? I am pretty sure you have 0 experiance in pvp or 1v1s, theres a reson why dbs are called anti archer.

Stop commenting rubbish, this is a serious post to help this class.

setexample

darkfalconknight wrote: »

nunuator wrote: »

Idk why ppl are crying about archers atm....

Archers are easily one of the if not the most broken classes with glyph'd skills....
Once you get lvl 10 glyphs for Thunder shock (Sanguine), stunning arrow (Sanguine) and Quickshot (sanguine) You can easily wipe the floor with them.

Purge quickly with maxed quickshot (100% aps increase) and then switch over to a 3rd cast G17 bow with GoF GG any class ez nuff. You can chain stuns and para with stunning arrow and thunder shock if you time it right and have a constant lock while you sit away from the targets.

+ If you're smart you can easily abuse db's with your wings of grace... (just make sure you tank the first lock or blow faith to get out of it)

What kind of world do you live in huh? This is the very reason why i quit doing pvp altogether and retreated to pve only. Cause the archer has become nothing more than pwis sick joke as well as tossed into the class abandoned junk heep. Psy's SoS- will surge only lasts like 6-8secs and that doesnt help kill them at all. DBs? forget killing those suckers since their lockdown paralyze neutralizes anyway possible to counteratk. SBs, just slightly and that is if you can block their water based skills with oxygen bubble. Barbs, need like 15-20 players to kill these high hp kittys and they hardly feel a thing since they more than likely will have 35-50k hp. BMs, most bms now days have like 25-30k hp and that is +12 vit maybe even 35k if their lucky.

Now lets go to the archer skills, Stun arrow- 3sec joke central, Wings of Grace- the 30% dmg reduction doesnt work at all vs someone whos +10-12 refined, Wing shell- one shot/time use only, Frost arrow, the animation is nice but it fires too fast so need to put it back to its normal channel/cast times. Plus need to also reduce the Cd on it to 1min. Sharpened tooth- hp reduction is a complete joke now to any class. Quickshot- 30% atk speed does somewhat help with the purge proc but still the proc happens less. So less pw can nerf the other classes to where the archer can compete against them, then anyone who rolled an archer will reroll another class (mostly a DB) or just quit entirely. And dont give me a feeding line about the G17 Gof Weapon, cause not everyone will spend their lifesavings just to get a weapon that is like over the hill costly. Plus not everyone has a G17 weapon or will make one cause of the amount of time needed to make it, so throw that idea out and trash it. So where have alot of you been lately in the boonies? the archer class is not the best class anymore the newer foreign classes are. Db, Sb, Seek and Myst. So dont come back on any one of us who have played an archer the longest and say "that you just lack skill," or "you need to be deity, josd +12" like if anyone of you guys saying that can buy that stuff for us than sure, otherwise get lost cause we dont have the luxury of time to keep up with a game that has literally killed off one of their own classes.

Funny thing I saw a bm with over 60k hp in arena, as an archer what are you meant to do there, they will constant lock you until you beg stop lol.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

jsxshadow

@kalystconquerer#0876 The archer class is fine atm. CN even ushered balancing changes for their recent update to lower archers damage by reducing the damage of the insta-cast Argent glyph effects on the metal skills. Which is fine.

There is still a misconception in the heads of a majority of the people. They look at other classes like sin and db that require nearly no effort to beat someone and are effective in any way. Archer can be effective too but you need brains to achieve greatness with an Archer. This recent update has given archer any utility they would need to win in a fair fight. However, if you fight a max def built class with a max def built archer then you will struggle to win the fight (depending on the class matchup) because the archer doesnt have many, fast, heavy hitting CC skills or debuffs that could perform charm-bypassing miracles (unlike sin/DB for example). So if you wanna kill and not just metal-debuff support/purge and CC from range you gotta built your archer a bit more offensively. Then everything is fine. Otherwise you are just support.

@splendideyes I can't even win on Storm/barb? Sorry, not anyone needs to outgear 99% of the playerbase to achieve victories and thats just for 3v3. I never had problems in 1v1 and especially not on equal gears, no matter the class I use.

We'll see how 3v3 goes once we finally get the desperately needed update to make SoS selfbuff only. That day I will rejoyce.

PS: The reason archer are "bad" in 3v3 is not because they are useless or weak. It's because 3v3 is massively class-bias'ed. Some classes just outperform other astronomically. If we assume equal skill and gear then you can savely say that the perfect squad matchup will uber-roll the worst possible squad matchup (no double classes) within mere moments.

This is why I said 3v3 is BS and why we desperately need a 1v1 arena. There are only very minor fixes neccessary to balance the entire thing. Selfbuff only. No G17 weapons allowed (or give anyone some).

- Remove CD reset from DB ulti for 1v1 arena. Limit the physical defense reduction from Constellation Arc to max 40% on players. - Duskblade
- Remove Chill of the deep, reduce tidal duration to 30 seconds and put its CD to 2 minutes, remove sin ulti as well. Also change base damage multipliers from Cursed Jail and Elimination to weapon damage instead. - Assassin
- Increase Seal of the God's Cooldown to 2 minutes. Limit maximum amount of healing that can be blocked via aurora skills to max 60% of the enemies HP (that way you cant block 2 full charm-ticks for caster classes, etc. ...). -Cleric
- Increase the Cooldown of Invoke to 2 minutes. - Barbarian
- Remove Ultimate skill. - Stormbringer
- Remove or limit Genie blocking ability to 5 seconds max on both skills, no matter which glyph level is used. - Mystic
- Adjust SoS so that it can only tick once every 10 seconds (this would be more than fair and could be outplayed if that would be the case. Now it's just random Luck BS.) - Psychic
- Limit the Def level debuff from Sacrificial Slash to maximum 50 (no matter how many def level are available) and reduce the duration of the ultimate to max 12 seconds. - Seeker
- Remove 0 def proc from Ironwood (if they are still using it) and limit physical defense gain in fox form to max 150%. - Venomancer
- Increase the CD of both Physical and magical Marrow to 25 seconds (you think that wont change much? Well, you now have the chance to catch a BM without it due to timing. Absolutely necessary.) and Increase HF's Cooldown to 2 minutes. - Blademaster.

Archer and Wizards are fine as is.

I bet alot of money that I could beat any other class with any class in a selfbuffed 1v1 with these changes in tact. No class would have ridiculous butt-whopping skills and would have to work for their victory. not saying I could always win but the chance to win would be there for sure.

setexample

Archers lack useful skills period forget about bypass and cc skills. Half of our skills right now serves no purpose, they are completely outdated. I wouldn’t have mind this class so much if pwi updated/reworked these skills or gave us new ones by combining useless ones.

Furthermore in terms of damage and survivability this class is last. Only thing that help us is purge but that depends on luck so much that you can’t even count on it. Barbs/bms/veno/even some sins/dbs now out purge this class 1v1 or 3v3. As a result most archer ranks and win rate is below all other class. I mean why fight the numbers its clear enough to see.

jsxshadow

@setexample As I've written in my updated post then it is clear that the numbers hold no value at all in terms of arena. Arena is massively imbalanced. If you would put any archer as pure support in a squad that is carried by a very strong DB/BM and cleric then you would see his numbers rising to the sky (if he knows how to stay alive and is supported by his team-mates).

Ofc, I focus archer first myself. However, that is due to the reason that I know that a vast majority of them is sloppy, careless or just inexperienced to begin with. They are quick to burn genie and ofc if you catch them in a CC lock with 2 or more people, they die a quick and painful death. Same with any other class that is not HA (and even them sometimes) with enough CC and debuffs. Again, this is only possible if they are either inexperienced or receive 0 support from their mates. Killing an archer with a single person on full buffs is harder than you think if the archer has knowledge of the class that is encountering him and knows his way to play around it/knows what to block and what to let through.

Please don't take arena as any example to prove how bad archer are. On equal gears in 1v1..an Archer can kill any selfbuffed/purged caster class with no effort at all...especially if not max endgame. Will you be able to kill a NP caster with an Archer that doesnt even have CF-set or when you have any gear disadvantage at all? Hell no. If you lose to an Archer which you outgear than you suck hardcore.

If you wanna meassure the true strength of a class then please do so on equal terms.

setexample

jsxshadow wrote: »

@setexample As I've written in my updated post then it is clear that the numbers hold no value at all in terms of arena. Arena is massively imbalanced. If you would put any archer as pure support in a squad that is carried by a very strong DB/BM and cleric then you would see his numbers rising to the sky (if he knows how to stay alive and is supported by his team-mates).

Ofc, I focus archer first myself. However, that is due to the reason that I know that a vast majority of them is sloppy, careless or just inexperienced to begin with. They are quick to burn genie and ofc if you catch them in a CC lock with 2 or more people, they die a quick and painful death. Same with any other class that is not HA (and even them sometimes) with enough CC and debuffs. Again, this is only possible if they are either inexperienced or receive 0 support from their mates. Killing an archer with a single person on full buffs is harder than you think if the archer has knowledge of the class that is encountering him and knows his way to play around it/knows what to block and what to let through.

Please don't take arena as any example to prove how bad archer are. On equal gears in 1v1..an Archer can kill any selfbuffed/purged caster class with no effort at all...especially if not max endgame. Will you be able to kill a NP caster with an Archer that doesnt even have CF-set or when you have any gear disadvantage at all? Hell no. If you lose to an Archer which you outgear than you suck hardcore.

If you wanna meassure the true strength of a class then please do so on equal terms.

If you actully read the first post you would have understood that this whole discussion is talking about archer vs other class in equal terms, please read and understand before rambling on.

As for arena matches when it comes to personal 3v3s it does hold value because whatver the % or win rate of that archer, he/she gained after many matches. Lets say its an avegrae of their total matches, therefore if their total win rate/% is low they are either inexperienced or losing a lot becasue of their class. Moreover if you take the whole archer community into account usully their % is low. If that is not saying something or you are discrediting this fact your biased.

Furthermore I can understand from your posts that Archer is not your main (I am not saying you dont know this class) but as a result it feels to me that you do not want this class to get better.

Archer is not meant to be a support class its a dd class, if pwi want archer to be support class then they should give archers more support skills, besides the fact Archer can purge ''big woop'' so can other classes. Self buffed (wings of protection + blazing aorrow is nothing whilst other classes have sos/deff buffs/attack buffs ect) and equal gear an archer doesnt stand a chance against other casters or even rest of the classes. Lack of cc/ no heals/ no puri/no long time survivability all contribute to them losing > if the archer isnt fully diety up theres no chance so I have no idea what your talking about there.

To win 1v1s an archer has to be extreamly skilled (with his skills and genie skills), has to know other classes like he playes them often, has to be diety or more (not equal terms) and also use a range of pots. All this effort leading to many archers just gving up and for new people not even bothering to try this class. It is clear as day and night which class is worse and lacking. Please stop talking nonsense, this is coming from a person who plays archer day in and day out and also other classes.

keihan007#7641

Joe is right to an extent, archer is a lot stronger than people give it credit for. Its main weakness now is garbage damage. In order to do what Joe claims every archer should be doing is deities and possibly GoF bow. There however arent many GoD bows, only one on Et, which was given by GM to a person as compensation for getting "****", which was a complete joke decision. I have since jokingly debated giving info to a friend and stage hacking to see if I can get GoF bow too. But I digress.

If you go with Deity build, you are extremely squishy and Joe claiming everybody uses their genies too fast cause they are terrible is absolutely idiotic statement. If you go to glass cannon, which Joe has been advocating, you can get charm bypassed by basically anybody. Sure there are bad genie usages but its a lot more in the air what should be considered as such.

Lastly, there is a reason why there is literally no non NP archers on high ranks on arena. There is absolutely no role, be it DD or support, which other classes dont do a lot better than archer, which alone might suggest the class requires some reworking. From sound of it the top tier archers do however deal so much dmg that they definitely pull their weight in arena. Shame there is no way of joining them now that NP promos were taken away.