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Skill Glyph System in the next expansion

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  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    aradya6793 wrote: »
    blazerboy wrote: »
    My greatest concern lies with, 300% wep damage adds or 600% in some cases make a massive diff. I know adding a ton of base damage means a lot but weapon damage? If I recall sparks don't scale so well with weapon damage skills hence when 3rd spark it's nothing compared to sin damage imo.

    it changes from class to class
    sparks increase your base damage, so any skill that has base damage multiplier like elimination, cursed jail, blade tempest, absorb soul, gravel blade etch... scales with it and gets the best benefits from a 3spark prior that skill

    for weapon damage multipliers you have to see which class you are playing

    100% weapon damage equals 1x damage multiplier which equals landing a skill like if you have 100 magic attribute added as an arcane or 150 str\dex more for anyone else

    if you consider arcanes lay on 900 magic, a skill adding 900% weapon damage it's a skill that is basically dealing 2x base damage

    for anyone else (HAs,LAs) pretty much a skill adding 600% weapon damage it's a skill that is basically dealing 2x base damage

    but skills that add weapon damage, the weapon damage part of the skill isn't boosted by a 2-3spark prior to the skill cast,

    to give an example you are a wiz with 50k base damage (means your weapon damage is around 5k)
    you have a skill that is 2x base damage (blade tempest)
    you have a skill that is base damage + 800% (frozen flame) (damage is then split in 2hits but that's not the point)

    if you 3spark you almost double your base damage let's say you reach 90k, then you land skills:

    bt damage = 2x 90k = 180k
    ff damage = 90k + (8x5k) = 130k

    that's why elimination is and will be even more epicly broken, because a 3spark basically almost doubles your base damage which is then at least tripled by the skill itself, which means 6 times base damage, then you add the other **** multipliers sin has like subsea cotd wolf emblem and zerkcrits and you see why a 7x base damage elimination is something that shouldn't exist in this goddamn game​​

    Well you're correct technically but keep in mind sins also have some of the lowest base attack and weapon damage values in the game due to wielding daggers, as well as nerfed values on cards and star charts. There's no way a sin will reach the insane base damage values that casters can achieve.

    The main reason most sins do so much damage is because most are sharded full deity, under perma triple spark status, and have the benefit of zerk weapons.

    My mystic's raw damage on a deity-sharded sin is around 4k, with amps I can bring that up to ~10k w/ crits, and with g17 caster zerk that becomes 20k. If I switched all my shards to deity and triple sparked I'm pretty sure I could hit some obscene numbers, possibly even hit 40k with caster zerk weps and amps.

    That's just on a mystic that has 55k base damage which is pretty low, and I'm missing ~300 spirit as well. Wizards and psychics would definitely hit higher (In fact I took a 32k crit from nemki while under full buffs + inkdragon just yesterday, if he had zerk that would have been 64k). So imo the massive base damage values sins get are a little deceptive.
  • freyginfreygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    1000 base damage on a sin with 200 atk level translates to :
    - pvp damage from 1000 is 250
    - with max redux 95%, the damage is only 5% from 250 = 12.5 dmg
    - the damage is further amped by 200 atk level = 12.5 + (200% x 12.5) = 37.5
    - this 37.5 damage output to player can crit to 82.5 or 165.

    Cursed Jail :
    Attack the enemy's preassure points with a flurry of precision attacks, stunning the target for 6 seconds and dealing 2x base physical damage plus 750% of weapon damage plus 14994. Slows the target for 10 seconds, reducing speed by 60%.
    Sage version has a 50% chance to only cost 1 Spark.

    Based on the fact above :
    - For a sin with 40k base damage, the added damage from 1x base = 1500 or 3300 crit or 6600 zerkcrit on a target with max redux 79317 pdef or 95%. (double spark is around 55-60k base, triple spark is around 65-70k base.)
    - For a target with 37575 pdef or 90% redux , the damage bonus for the sin = 3000 or 6600 or 13200.

    There is no skill update that ever gives 40k+ free damage constant to any class before (cmiiw) and it scales when sparking or if base damage increases it's a constant that isn't constant. Sin even ever got a 5 atk level increase before, it compounds every damn time. On top of that, cursed jail has stun, so good luck surviving that and whatever comes next.

    For comparison, Cleric Great Cyclone was 3380 skill dmg constant, after primal it's increased to 5266, only +1886
    or Cleric's low dmg nuke skill Wield Thunder merged with Thunderball = Thunder Crash, the skill dmg was base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 6365 as Metal damage, after merged = base + 300% weapon dmg + 9943 and some dot, the increase is +3578 and 1xweapon damage which is around 6k , so in total = more or less 9578.

    So how is Sin on PWI now ? Is that skill really op, not noticeable or what ?
    Post edited by freygin on
  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    freygin wrote: »
    1000 base damage on a sin with 200 atk level translates to :
    - pvp damage from 1000 is 250
    - with max redux 95%, the damage is only 5% from 250 = 12.5 dmg
    - the damage is further amped by 200 atk level = 12.5 + (200% x 12.5) = 37.5
    - this 37.5 damage output to player can crit to 82.5 or 165.

    Cursed Jail :
    Attack the enemy's preassure points with a flurry of precision attacks, stunning the target for 6 seconds and dealing 2x base physical damage plus 750% of weapon damage plus 14994. Slows the target for 10 seconds, reducing speed by 60%.
    Sage version has a 50% chance to only cost 1 Spark.

    Based on the fact above :
    - For a sin with 40k base damage, the added damage from 1x base = 1500 or 3300 crit or 6600 zerkcrit on a target with max redux 79317 pdef or 95%. (double spark is around 55-60k base, triple spark is around 65-70k base.)
    - For a target with 37575 pdef or 90% redux , the damage bonus for the sin = 3000 or 6600 or 13200.

    There is no skill update that ever gives 40k+ free damage constant to any class before (cmiiw) and it scales when sparking or if base damage increases it's a constant that isn't constant. Sin even ever got a 5 atk level increase before, it compounds every damn time. On top of that, cursed jail has stun, so good luck surviving that and whatever comes next.

    For comparison, Cleric Great Cyclone was 3380 skill dmg constant, after primal it's increased to 5266, only +1886
    or Cleric's low dmg nuke skill Wield Thunder merged with Thunderball = Thunder Crash, the skill dmg was base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 6365 as Metal damage, after merged = base + 300% weapon dmg + 9943 and some dot, the increase is +3578 and 1xweapon damage which is around 6k , so in total = more or less 9578.

    So how is Sin on PWI now ? Is that skill really op, not noticeable or what ?

    Well high base attack skills always scale better with triple sparks, the downside is that it's really easy to see coming. The main issue would be double spark from stealth, but def charms kind of negate that.

    Mystics can get up to 80k base damage from their absorb soul upgrade which is double that of sins.

    Great cyclone you're not choosing the right upgrade...the .5 channel reduction is a 25% increase in damage, combined with the ~50-60% weapon damage gain from UVD (roughly 5% more damage per attack) gives them nearly a 30% increase in damage spamming Great cyclone (which is pretty much cleric's bread and butter nuke in UVD).

    If you convert that damage into base attack equivalent it would be 26k raw damage increase. More if cleric decides to spark. Casters will also be getting zerk proc and an extra 5% crit rate as well that they didn't have access to previously.

    So regardless of class everyone received decent damage upgrades. Sin definitely received one of the best boosts, but we'll have to see how the patch really plays out, because there's simply too many new changes coming to really factor everything in accurately.
  • freyginfreygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I was comparing before this cn update, with this cn update included, I bet sin will have a bigger slice as usual, I don't even want to look at it.

    I don't think cleric is that good anymore now, cleric is only good in 1v1, even that needs self buff. In mass pk the best role is only for support. Cleric damage is just a scratch in mass pk because ppl have full buffs. Not even no cooldown Great Cyclone helps, it only shows that cleric damage is just too small to begin with. With cleric buff and other classes' own survival skill, cleric damage is really just too small, even in uvd.

    This cn update seems good for cleric but probably not that much, everything in this game is scaled, so if cleric damage is upped, chance is other classes are upscaled as well. So in the end its still the same. In term of damage, cleric is always behind, especially in mass pk where everyone is fully buffed.

    I hope converting heal skills into offensive skills really helps cleric as a real dd class, but like you said, we'll have to see how it plays out.
  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    freygin wrote: »
    I was comparing before this cn update, with this cn update included, I bet sin will have a bigger slice as usual, I don't even want to look at it.

    I don't think cleric is that good anymore now, cleric is only good in 1v1, even that needs self buff. In mass pk the best role is only for support. Cleric damage is just a scratch in mass pk because ppl have full buffs. Not even no cooldown Great Cyclone helps, it only shows that cleric damage is just too small to begin with. With cleric buff and other classes' own survival skill, cleric damage is really just too small, even in uvd.

    This cn update seems good for cleric but probably not that much, everything in this game is scaled, so if cleric damage is upped, chance is other classes are upscaled as well. So in the end its still the same. In term of damage, cleric is always behind, especially in mass pk where everyone is fully buffed.

    I hope converting heal skills into offensive skills really helps cleric as a real dd class, but like you said, we'll have to see how it plays out.

    I don't get why you think cleric should have the same damage potential as other classes? They have the highest cc among all casters and also the highest defense. The 30% boost will already be pretty substantial, especially when you consider that faster cast speed makes triple spark especially deadly.

    In all honesty I think the biggest impediment stopping clerics and mystics from hard dps'ing is the fact that there's multiple sins/bms/dbs on us 24/7.
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    dregenfox wrote: »
    freygin wrote: »
    I was comparing before this cn update, with this cn update included, I bet sin will have a bigger slice as usual, I don't even want to look at it.

    I don't think cleric is that good anymore now, cleric is only good in 1v1, even that needs self buff. In mass pk the best role is only for support. Cleric damage is just a scratch in mass pk because ppl have full buffs. Not even no cooldown Great Cyclone helps, it only shows that cleric damage is just too small to begin with. With cleric buff and other classes' own survival skill, cleric damage is really just too small, even in uvd.

    This cn update seems good for cleric but probably not that much, everything in this game is scaled, so if cleric damage is upped, chance is other classes are upscaled as well. So in the end its still the same. In term of damage, cleric is always behind, especially in mass pk where everyone is fully buffed.

    I hope converting heal skills into offensive skills really helps cleric as a real dd class, but like you said, we'll have to see how it plays out.

    I don't get why you think cleric should have the same damage potential as other classes? They have the highest cc among all casters and also the highest defense. The 30% boost will already be pretty substantial, especially when you consider that faster cast speed makes triple spark especially deadly.

    In all honesty I think the biggest impediment stopping clerics and mystics from hard dps'ing is the fact that there's multiple sins/bms/dbs on us 24/7.

    Increasing the channeling on Great Cyclone doesnt increase the damage output at all. You can't overwrite channeling time with Cast time.

    Clerics will be one of those classes that benefit the most from Caster GoF, since they can spam skills so hard. Clerics don't need more damage tho, really. The Aurora skills already make Clerics the strongest of all caster in terms of Single Target threat, may it be 1v1 or mass pvp. I do hope, however, that we will see more pure Metal DDs when the new update hits PWI. I, for one, will definitly try that :D
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Honestly I don't see why clerics want more damage in terms of mass pvp. In 1v1 understood but mass pvp? Yea if you're my cleric and I know you will mainly DD yea I'm kicking you from the squad or no thanks I'm out not worth wasting my time
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • sylenthundersylenthunder Support Guru Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
    blazerboy wrote: »
    Honestly I don't see why clerics want more damage in terms of mass pvp. In 1v1 understood but mass pvp? Yea if you're my cleric and I know you will mainly DD yea I'm kicking you from the squad or no thanks I'm out not worth wasting my time
    When you have two or three clerics on a squad, at least one of them is supposed to be focusing on sealing, debuffing, and DD, rather than healing. It's not our sole purpose in mass PvP.​​
  • sin20sin20 Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Idk why ppl want or expect more dmg on a cleric , clerics main role is support , thats how the class was envisioned and thats it, any upgrades for clerics id expect them to be in the area of self survivability or squad supporting.
    If you want a high mag dmg dealing class thats why theres a wizz or psy or sb.
    If you guys said this around #THELIMITE you would get flamed for days.
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    blazerboy wrote: »
    Honestly I don't see why clerics want more damage in terms of mass pvp. In 1v1 understood but mass pvp? Yea if you're my cleric and I know you will mainly DD yea I'm kicking you from the squad or no thanks I'm out not worth wasting my time
    When you have two or three clerics on a squad, at least one of them is supposed to be focusing on sealing, debuffing, and DD, rather than healing. It's not our sole purpose in mass PvP.​​

    I agree, especially since people still didnt realize that Aurora Array is the strongest AOE (with no cost) in the entire game. It is 100% guaranteed damage..that is unblockable cept for immunity and can only be lifted by healing. Having a metal DD on the field is alot more useful than having a wizard, for example. Clerics have more single target DD, more CC, more effective debuffs/group debuffs (Aurora Array) and even spamable AOEs (razor feathers and some new ones in the next expansion).

    If someone was to ask me to pick a caster for 1v1 vs any other caster class I would without a doubt pick the cleric because I would roflstomp any other caster with it, easily. The other caster-classes are chanceless vs a cleric in a direct 1v1 but I mean...30k+ charm block is kinda tough :D
  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    dregenfox wrote: »
    freygin wrote: »
    I was comparing before this cn update, with this cn update included, I bet sin will have a bigger slice as usual, I don't even want to look at it.

    I don't think cleric is that good anymore now, cleric is only good in 1v1, even that needs self buff. In mass pk the best role is only for support. Cleric damage is just a scratch in mass pk because ppl have full buffs. Not even no cooldown Great Cyclone helps, it only shows that cleric damage is just too small to begin with. With cleric buff and other classes' own survival skill, cleric damage is really just too small, even in uvd.

    This cn update seems good for cleric but probably not that much, everything in this game is scaled, so if cleric damage is upped, chance is other classes are upscaled as well. So in the end its still the same. In term of damage, cleric is always behind, especially in mass pk where everyone is fully buffed.

    I hope converting heal skills into offensive skills really helps cleric as a real dd class, but like you said, we'll have to see how it plays out.

    I don't get why you think cleric should have the same damage potential as other classes? They have the highest cc among all casters and also the highest defense. The 30% boost will already be pretty substantial, especially when you consider that faster cast speed makes triple spark especially deadly.

    In all honesty I think the biggest impediment stopping clerics and mystics from hard dps'ing is the fact that there's multiple sins/bms/dbs on us 24/7.

    Increasing the channeling on Great Cyclone doesnt increase the damage output at all. You can't overwrite channeling time with Cast time.

    Clerics will be one of those classes that benefit the most from Caster GoF, since they can spam skills so hard. Clerics don't need more damage tho, really. The Aurora skills already make Clerics the strongest of all caster in terms of Single Target threat, may it be 1v1 or mass pvp. I do hope, however, that we will see more pure Metal DDs when the new update hits PWI. I, for one, will definitly try that :D

    Umm yes it does, lowering channel to .5 from 1 means they're getting 25% more great cyclone casts in over the same time period. Total cast time 2 -->1.5.

    The benefit is actually greater if you include -channel equipment.

    It is one of the skill runes available for clerics w/ new update.
  • asterelleasterelle 🦝🧁🐍🎀🔥🤹🥶🌟🌸🧢🏹 Posts: 860 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    dregenfox wrote: »
    The benefit is actually greater if you include -channel equipment.

    That's backwards. If you had -100% channeling gear then any change in the channeling on the skill would be worthless since you do 0s either way.

    In the less extreme case if you had 50% -chan then you're only spending 0.5s on channeling and 1s on cast. -50% channeling on 0.5s will lower the 0.5 to 0.25s. Factoring 1 more second for casting.

    2s - > 1.5s gives you 33% more casts (4 casts in 6s vs 3 casts in 6s)
    1.5s -> 1.25s gives you 20% more casts (12 casts in 15s vs 10 casts in 15s)
    ​​
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    With the current situation on servers how any group pvp/ tw/xtw can afford to keep 3 clerics in one squad would thoroughly impress me o_o @sylenthunder
    105/105/105 Seeking ScallyMode
    http://mypers.pw/5/#258958
  • freyginfreygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    dregenfox wrote: »
    freygin wrote: »
    I was comparing before this cn update, with this cn update included, I bet sin will have a bigger slice as usual, I don't even want to look at it.

    I don't think cleric is that good anymore now, cleric is only good in 1v1, even that needs self buff. In mass pk the best role is only for support. Cleric damage is just a scratch in mass pk because ppl have full buffs. Not even no cooldown Great Cyclone helps, it only shows that cleric damage is just too small to begin with. With cleric buff and other classes' own survival skill, cleric damage is really just too small, even in uvd.

    This cn update seems good for cleric but probably not that much, everything in this game is scaled, so if cleric damage is upped, chance is other classes are upscaled as well. So in the end its still the same. In term of damage, cleric is always behind, especially in mass pk where everyone is fully buffed.

    I hope converting heal skills into offensive skills really helps cleric as a real dd class, but like you said, we'll have to see how it plays out.

    I don't get why you think cleric should have the same damage potential as other classes? They have the highest cc among all casters and also the highest defense. The 30% boost will already be pretty substantial, especially when you consider that faster cast speed makes triple spark especially deadly.

    In all honesty I think the biggest impediment stopping clerics and mystics from hard dps'ing is the fact that there's multiple sins/bms/dbs on us 24/7.

    Because cleric has ultraviolet dance, in which cleric can't spam heal but even the damage isn't that great, and in this update the heal skills can be changed into attack, so I hope the attacking capability means something because it sacrifices heals.

    Cleric cc is not really that useful in mass, Sog is used for stopping not killing because of the dmg redux, unless there's a mystic or seeker with edge blur or unless ganked by many, while sleep is less useful most of the time because the target will be hit by others. Cleric is number one target in mass and prone to being cc'ed.

    The game is all about delivering damage and cc. To deliver damage we need to be not cc'ed while cc'ing the other party so we can freely deliver damage without being cc'ed. That's the biggest problem for cleric. Cleric cc is either making one tanky (Sog is mostly used for stopping and not for killing) or being cancelled by others right away, so cleric cc is not that useful and cleric dmg is also not that great because everyone is fully buffed, sure cleric can spam great cyclone but it's a dps skill, the problem with dps skill is it needs time, but the game is all about CC and delivering dmg, how can we dps if being cc'ed. So in the end, a cleric with even uvd and all that gimmicky dd capability is still a cleric.

    The only thing that's left is Aurora, it's the only skill that can pose the biggest threat a cleric has, but was disabled for a while saying it was intentional and then fixed. The only thing cleric has to be able to kill was seen as a problem by the devs, but a one shot capability sins have is okay.
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    Increasing the channeling on Great Cyclone doesnt increase the damage output at all. You can't overwrite channeling time with Cast time.

    Clerics will be one of those classes that benefit the most from Caster GoF, since they can spam skills so hard. Clerics don't need more damage tho, really. The Aurora skills already make Clerics the strongest of all caster in terms of Single Target threat, may it be 1v1 or mass pvp. I do hope, however, that we will see more pure Metal DDs when the new update hits PWI. I, for one, will definitly try that :D

    Damage is delivered after Channeling + Cast time, right ? so if a skill is 1s channeling and 1s cast time = need 2 secs to be delivered. Any reduced channeling time will still benefit and increase the damage output or cmiiw.

    Wiz could also be the one that will benefit the most because if zerkcrit after undine+spark, there's no armor in PW that can block that. 4x dmg with really low reduction will kill even a character with supermax gear.

    I think there is no pure 1 element class in the game unless physical class like sin/bm/barb/db, but even phy classes has minor element related skill or buff with them, it's either [one element + another element] or [one element + physic].

    I agree Aurora is the strongest skill cleric has, other classes usually do their combo mixed with cc to get the timing to be most offensive after a charm tick, but aurora is like a nuke at perfect timing.
    (but the problem for me personally is where I play still haven't been patched to Elysium, probably late this year, or even next year, so I've been stuck with capped 10k aurora while the last few updates keep bulking everyone's hp, it sucks being cleric before elysium)
  • sylenthundersylenthunder Support Guru Posts: 3,061 Community Moderator
    blazerboy wrote: »
    With the current situation on servers how any group pvp/ tw/xtw can afford to keep 3 clerics in one squad would thoroughly impress me o_o @sylenthunder
    Sometimes you end up with a lot of clerics. It is rare, but it has happened often enough recently to surprise me a little.​​
  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    asterelle wrote: »
    dregenfox wrote: »
    The benefit is actually greater if you include -channel equipment.

    That's backwards. If you had -100% channeling gear then any change in the channeling on the skill would be worthless since you do 0s either way.

    In the less extreme case if you had 50% -chan then you're only spending 0.5s on channeling and 1s on cast. -50% channeling on 0.5s will lower the 0.5 to 0.25s. Factoring 1 more second for casting.

    2s - > 1.5s gives you 33% more casts (4 casts in 6s vs 3 casts in 6s)
    1.5s -> 1.25s gives you 20% more casts (12 casts in 15s vs 10 casts in 15s)
    ​​

    Yeah sorry I was thinking more specifically about how larger amounts of channel results in a higher % dps increase, since it always reduces by the base channel value instead of current value.

    But yeah, if you reduce the base value to .5 then -50% channel isn't as effective as when it was using 1s as the base value. Stacking -channel will still offer higher benefits, just less than if you had 1s.

    In this case if you increase to -100% channel then

    1.25 -> 1 gives 25% more casts (15 casts in 15s vs 12 casts in 15s)
  • jsxshadowjsxshadow Posts: 1,414 Arc User
    huh? Whatcha all talking about? Damage is delivered after chanelling, even tho that heavily depends on the skill itself since they all work a bit differently.

    Also, chan + cast are not added, they are in effect at the same time. So if you have 1s chan and 1s cast then the skill will last 1 second until you can use the next one. Even if your chan is 0, you still have wait for the animation/cast to finish before you can use the next skill. Hence decreasing the chan time even further is mostly useless cept on skills with a higher chan than cast time. Razor Feathers would be a good example or Thunder Crash.

    So while increasing chan does indeed cause Clerics in UVD to glitch out Cyclone a bit and might lead to a bit higher DPS...it doesnt work to infinity. The regular chan decrease r9 caster have is sufficient most of the time. I'd never go above 50% tho as that can cause weird effects if you spam the skill button (I hate that multicast bug. You press a key multiple times and it will activate the skill multiple times even tho you didnt press the skill key again after its being used. Reducing chan increases the odds of this happening and that can **** you up quite alot depending on the situation).

    Going to 0.5 chan for the skill with the rune won't increase the damage output at all IF it isnt Cast time you are talking about (didnt check). If its cast time then hell yeah, that would lead to a massive increase in damage output.
  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    jsxshadow wrote: »
    huh? Whatcha all talking about? Damage is delivered after chanelling, even tho that heavily depends on the skill itself since they all work a bit differently.

    Also, chan + cast are not added, they are in effect at the same time. So if you have 1s chan and 1s cast then the skill will last 1 second until you can use the next one. Even if your chan is 0, you still have wait for the animation/cast to finish before you can use the next skill. Hence decreasing the chan time even further is mostly useless cept on skills with a higher chan than cast time. Razor Feathers would be a good example or Thunder Crash.

    So while increasing chan does indeed cause Clerics in UVD to glitch out Cyclone a bit and might lead to a bit higher DPS...it doesnt work to infinity. The regular chan decrease r9 caster have is sufficient most of the time. I'd never go above 50% tho as that can cause weird effects if you spam the skill button (I hate that multicast bug. You press a key multiple times and it will activate the skill multiple times even tho you didnt press the skill key again after its being used. Reducing chan increases the odds of this happening and that can **** you up quite alot depending on the situation).

    Going to 0.5 chan for the skill with the rune won't increase the damage output at all IF it isnt Cast time you are talking about (didnt check). If its cast time then hell yeah, that would lead to a massive increase in damage output.

    For most skills spell effects/damage happen after channel is completed. The cast time makes no difference. Cooldown also starts after channel completion as well. One exception to this are projectile type skills like divine pyrogram on wizard, which takes effect only after the projectile lands. Not sure about multi-hit skills on sin since I don't have a sin to test.

    I've tested this on mystic, and using the channel buff in last floor of tower, as well as on wizard. Lowering channeling increases DPS, and cooldown time doesn't change at all. The skill may sometimes bug out and not show the animation, but the damage goes through the same. Halving channel on a 1 cast, 1s channel, 1s cooldown spam spell still increases dps.

    Also you can cancel queue'd up spell casts by pressing escape, this really only matters for mystics and clerics in UVD though. It's definitely annoying though.



  • freyginfreygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    Great Cyclone is 1s cast time 1s channeling
    If Cast + chan and with 50% channeling, then it's 1s +0.5s = 1.5s

    If Cast and Chan are at the same time then Great Cyclone is capped at 1s ?
    chan 0.5s but since cast is 1s, then it's a fixed 1s ?

    I think it's still cast + chan, because Sage Bestial Onslaught before primal has +0.7s chan added so it's 1.1s cast 1.1s chan, while the demon counterpart is 1.1s cast and 0.4 chan. And the added 0.7s chan really slowed down the animation and thus longer damage delivery time.
  • dregenfoxdregenfox Posts: 713 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    freygin wrote: »
    Great Cyclone is 1s cast time 1s channeling
    If Cast + chan and with 50% channeling, then it's 1s +0.5s = 1.5s

    If Cast and Chan are at the same time then Great Cyclone is capped at 1s ?
    chan 0.5s but since cast is 1s, then it's a fixed 1s ?

    I think it's still cast + chan, because Sage Bestial Onslaught before primal has +0.7s chan added so it's 1.1s cast 1.1s chan, while the demon counterpart is 1.1s cast and 0.4 chan. And the added 0.7s chan really slowed down the animation and thus longer damage delivery time.

    Yes, cast time is fixed. It cannot be lowered except by an actual change to the skill descriptions.

    For casting to happen, you must channel for the indicated time first. So if a spell has 1s channel and 1s cast with -20% channel equipment then you have to channel for .8 seconds, then the cast happens. Total time = 1.8 seconds.

    I've had a lot of instances where I get a channel off but the animation never plays because I get stunned, but I still get the effects of the heal. This happens most often with falling petals due to it's .5s channel and 1s cast time.



  • freyginfreygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    dregenfox wrote: »
    freygin wrote: »
    Great Cyclone is 1s cast time 1s channeling
    If Cast + chan and with 50% channeling, then it's 1s +0.5s = 1.5s

    If Cast and Chan are at the same time then Great Cyclone is capped at 1s ?
    chan 0.5s but since cast is 1s, then it's a fixed 1s ?

    I think it's still cast + chan, because Sage Bestial Onslaught before primal has +0.7s chan added so it's 1.1s cast 1.1s chan, while the demon counterpart is 1.1s cast and 0.4 chan. And the added 0.7s chan really slowed down the animation and thus longer damage delivery time.

    Yes, cast time is fixed. It cannot be lowered except by an actual change to the skill descriptions.

    For casting to happen, you must channel for the indicated time first. So if a spell has 1s channel and 1s cast with -20% channel equipment then you have to channel for .8 seconds, then the cast happens. Total time = 1.8 seconds.

    I've had a lot of instances where I get a channel off but the animation never plays because I get stunned, but I still get the effects of the heal. This happens most often with falling petals due to it's .5s channel and 1s cast time.


    I see. So it's indeed total from cast + chan, not at the same time like Joe said.

    That animation skip happens quite often with cleric as well, I often test my bm friend how well he executes stunlock combo and only defend with IH / Elven Boon and often these skills deliver but no animation because stunned.
  • dingo488dingo488 Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    asterelle wrote: »
    2s - > 1.5s gives you 33% more casts (4 casts in 6s vs 3 casts in 6s)
    1.5s -> 1.25s gives you 20% more casts (12 casts in 15s vs 10 casts in 15s)
    ​​

    I wonder how much latency would affect these things you guys are saying... In an offline scenario your calculations are right, but we're playing online, most people are playing with 300+ ms latency, which effectively adds on to the cast portion of the skill I would assume. Not sure if its translates 1:1 tho. (aka 300ms latency adds 0.3s to your interval between casts, which is basically what casting time does too, makin it 1.3s). But I dont think you can say having 50% channel reduction would translate to 33% more casts in the scenario you are describing



    IGN: Madskillz
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Some euro players can play at 200ms and some even 50-60 like a certain Duskblade I know...... GGWP for casting in ping like that..
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  • neo743neo743 Posts: 11 Arc User
    bump
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    Wtb all class skill damage say 400% base damage with no care for weapon damage so it can be a sparkfest \o/ RIP logic
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  • fury85fury85 Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    My 2 cent about Barbs Rune:

    Stomp of the Beast King
    Rune 2
    Skill damage amplify effect maximum stacks reduced to 4, but % per stack increased.
    Lvl10: Increases skill damage amplify to 15% per stack.

    I find this rune alot good. In a perfect lock view you can stack this debuff twice, that mean 30% amplify damage.

    Mighty Swing
    Rune 2
    Lvl10: Cast range increased by 5 meters.

    That can be very helpfull to catch running class. When I saw Rune 4 (100% chance to paralyze) I had an heart attack but 12 sec cooldown is too much. Rune 5, I just imagine hit an Archer with Mighty Swing from 30 meters... just lol.

    Armageddon
    Rune 1 (for DD)
    Lvl10: Adds 100% of base physical damage.

    Become like the Ultimate. So Armageddon can hit very good also on full STR build.

    Rune 2 (for VIT)
    Lvl10: Increases damage based on HP/MP consumed to 8x the amount.

    Berserker's Wrath
    Rune 1
    Lvl10: Increases damage to 150% of base physical damage.

    More damage. To take down cleric in air or also to increase damage of a really large AOE.

    Bestial Rage
    Rune 2
    Lvl10: Skill duration increased to 30 seconds.

    I prefer the duration to the quantity of chi gained to be more versatile. Rune 3 (for VIT Barbs) and 4 (for STR Barbs) can be interesting as well.

    Cornered Beast
    Rune 1
    Lvl10: Heals back up to 90% of max HP.

    Love that! Rune 4 can be interesting as an additional "Anti-stun/Faith effect" but cooldown is really long... maybe for 1v1 isn't bad. Should test.

    Flash Ream
    Rune 2
    Lvl10: Increases cast range by 5 meters

    Here I prefer range. This is a skill I rarely use in PvP, usually if Ancestral don't kill I use Flesh Ream to finish the kill and range can be helpful on that.

    Raging Slap
    Rune 2
    Skill becomes area of effect.
    Lvl10: Affects the target and enemies 5 meters around it.

    Damn! That's really fun!

    Invoke the Spirit
    Rune 4
    Lvl10: Removes channeling time.

    I have even the problem to cast invoke when attacked and get interrupted all the time. But still remain the 2 second of Cast.

    Devour
    Rune 3
    Lvl10: Attack level reduction lasts 15 seconds

    Nothing interesting. Maybe not many do, but I use often devour as a defensive skill. Can use that rune or add more damage.
    Roar_King
    Level 105 Barbarian with Deity Stone
  • blazerboyblazerboy Posts: 1,673 Arc User
    @fury85 I'm not a fan of the raging slap one I HATE this skill with a passion xD
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  • rosdomrosdom Posts: 23 Arc User
    Do we have any idea if the Chi Pool is being increased from 399 to like 499 and if we're getting something like a 4spark?
    Also, is the maximum amount of CP for the sins mentioned or can you just store them up till infinity and unleash hell?
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