Server with the Worst PvP?

Zanryu - Lothranis

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you ever read my post you would know that I already stated this, and I also stated he refused to acknowledge any exceptions to this rule. And instead resorted to calling her a 'carebear' instead of providing facts to prove that she herself was bad at PK. Most likely=/=you are, how is that so hard to uderstand with you people. On top of that Yuuniee is probably one of the best geared clerics on our server, she would have no issues with confrontation if she decided to deal with it. WTF is the point of arguing a statistic that everyone already knows about, to prove an obvious point? It's beyond redundant, and only comes from those that have something to prove, like i already stated.

...You're trying to defend someone from an accusation that never occurred. We're aware "most likely" doesn't mean "you are", it's simply being stated that due to playing a server that is composed primarily of carebears, it is reasonable to assume that a person on that server is more likely to be a carebear than not if there is no other information available such as video evidence to the contrary.

Don't ask what the point of arguing is when you're the one white knighting for castgurl.



Like i said, if you are going to strawman me, make it a good one. But maybe if you had actually read and understood my post, you would have realized that.

Your whole stance so far has been "You don't know she's bad without having seen her, you can't make a bet on her skill without having seen her pk". That seems to be your take on this, and it's a very stupid stance to have. As has been stated, DW is a carebear server, it has very few PvPers. This means majority of the server will more than likely be inexperienced when it comes to PvP. This means that should a random person on DW be selected, it is most likely they are not good at PvP. There is no strawman here, you're just an idiot.


As for 'playing assassin', I play multiple classes. In PvP, Id say I have the most experience on barb and seeker, because I actually PK on them. Once again another person that uses fallacies to prove a half baked point, which they are completely wrong about to begin with.

You WOULD play the second and third easiest classes in the game.

Just because I post from my sin, does not mean assassin is the only class I play. Do you play asassin? Wouldn't this also be applied to you if you do?

Lucky for me I don't play Assassins, I play a class that takes actual skill.

GG.

topkek

K I gave the stoneface enough of a break, he can step in now. huehuehuehue

catgirl33

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

...You're trying to defend someone from an accusation that never occurred. We're aware "most likely" doesn't mean "you are", it's simply being stated that due to playing a server that is composed primarily of carebears, it is reasonable to assume that a person on that server is more likely to be a carebear than not if there is no other information available such as video evidence to the contrary.

Don't ask what the point of arguing is when you're the one white knighting for castgurl.

unrefuted wrote: »

I'm going to say Dreamweaver cause they have the most carebear thread I've seen lmao

Id be surprised if there were ANY good pker on that server. Someone show me one lol

This isn’t an accusation? Unrefuted made a very disrespectful statement toward everyone in DW without any valid evidence. Despite being offended, I’m trying to explain to him nicely that even if we’re carebear in his term of carebear. Whatever his definition of carebear is doesn’t prove that we’re bad pkers. While you can make assumption like “it's simply being stated that due to playing a server that is composed primarily of carebears, it is reasonable to assume that a person on that server is more likely to be a carebear. Whereas we can make the same assumption that a pvp server mainly composed of safe zone humpers, it’s reasonable to believe that a person on that server is likely a carebear.


You’re the one actually blind defending someone.

Your whole stance so far has been "You don't know she's bad without having seen her, you can't make a bet on her skill without having seen her pk". That seems to be your take on this, and it's a very stupid stance to have. As has been stated, DW is a carebear server, it has very few PvPers. This means majority of the server will more than likely be inexperienced when it comes to PvP. This means that should a random person on DW be selected, it is most likely they are not good at PvP. There is no strawman here, you're just an idiot.

You two stated that we’re carebear server by using your term carebear. So this time in your definition that we’re carebear because we have lesser pkers? Who knows? Probably pvp server is actually the carebear because of the massive safe zoner humpers. Some players from pvp servers login at a certain time of the day than their usual play like after midnight/early morning just to avoid confrontation. Some of them never get a chance to get their daily done because they're afraid to step out of safe zone. Your term of carebear also apply to pvp server and you can’t prove that the majority of players from pvp server aren’t safe zone humpers. Neither can you prove majority of us are carebears.


You WOULD play the second and third easiest classes in the game.

Lucky for me I don't play Assassins, I play a class that takes actual skill.

Reply in Red

Zanryu - Lothranis

This one's for you catgirl.

1. It's really not, it's a general guess. He explained the reasoning behind it, and that reasoning makes sense. "If a person plays a PvE server, they will most likely prefer PvE activities and/or will not be as skilled as someone on a PvP server, where PvP is more likely to occur." There was no accusation, there was no personal attack, it was only stated that without any extra information it could be stated that you are less likely to be good at PvP due to the server you play.

You could I suppose, though when it comes to a PvP server the fact of the matter is you're subject to attack at all times. This makes PvP encounters far more likely, this means that players on such servers will gain more experience when it comes to PvP simply because they're involved in it far more often. This is why it's generally assumed that PvP servers have better players than PvE servers when it comes to PvP, though there are obvious exceptions to the rule.

2.

I didn't state anything about you. The term carebear has already been defined for you, and that definition isn't really up for debate. The term has a well established meaning and we're not here to discuss it. Due to the fact that you play DW, it's reasonable to assume that you or anyone else, without having prior knowledge of who you are, is a carebear. All PvE servers have a playerbase that consists of mostly players who do not engage in PvP activities if they can help it. They are carebears. I've played DW, Morai, and now Archosaur. All of them had a playerbase of mostly carebears.


3.

Nobody cares one way of the other if you're a carebear or not. You're not really doing yourself any favors by caring so much about a comment that wasn't even directly aimed at you as an insult. God the people on this game are such babies.

opkossy

.... Well I was wondering how long before someone from a server that was deemed as having worse PvPers for X reason would get offended and cause a derail focused on them.

Zanryu - Lothranis

OPKossy wrote: »

.... Well I was wondering how long before someone from a server that was deemed as having worse PvPers for X reason would get offended and cause a derail focused on them.

About as long as it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop?

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

...You're trying to defend someone from an accusation that never occurred. We're aware "most likely" doesn't mean "you are", it's simply being stated that due to playing a server that is composed primarily of carebears, it is reasonable to assume that a person on that server is more likely to be a carebear than not if there is no other information available such as video evidence to the contrary.

It's not reasonable, it's still an assumption which has a chance of being wrong. Which is what i pointed out. Thats like arguing that;

A feminine male can or can not be homosexual, but I'll assume this person is, because of 'statistics'.
Most korean are extremely smart, so ill assume this person is.
Most black people like hip hop, so ill assume this person does.

You say the same exact things that bigots say.

It's an argument that has no merit whatsoever, and I'm disappointed that you would defend it.

Don't ask what the point of arguing is when you're the one white knighting for castgurl.

“White Knight” (also known as “Internet White Knight”) is a pejorative term used to describe men who defend women on the Internet with the assumption that they are looking for a romantic reward in return."

Let's get a few things straight. I have no romantic interest in Yuuniee. I am a happily married man. And I would do this for someone even if I hated their guts it they are wrongly projected due to fallical arguments. That's the kind of person I am.

Not only was that sexist as hell, that was once again another fallacy. So sad.

Your whole stance so far has been "You don't know she's bad without having seen her, you can't make a bet on her skill without having seen her pk". That seems to be your take on this, and it's a very stupid stance to have. As has been stated, DW is a carebear server, it has very few PvPers. This means majority of the server will more than likely be inexperienced when it comes to PvP. This means that should a random person on DW be selected, it is most likely they are not good at PvP. There is no strawman here, you're just an idiot.

You clearly don't understand what this guy said, at all. When someone makes a bet, they don't make it because they know there is a good chance they might lose, they know there is a good chance they might win, however this is different from thinking you WILL win. THAT is my issue. Hence the strawman, hence you just being your usual self and skimming instead of reading.


You WOULD play the second and third easiest classes in the game.

I picked those classes because I like their mechanics, just like you like a Bm's. So judemental.


Lucky for me I don't play Assassins, I play a class that takes actual skill.
If you have an assassin and you use it this post would make you out to be a liar, and by your logic, since a majority if not almost all people that play this game have an assassin, it's safe for me to assume you also have one.

Although its also easy to say you have skill when you can hit 2-3x harder if pure str, atleast 50% more base pdef, and 18-30% more hp than a sin of equal gear. And the use of the phrase 'skill' is subjective. Objectively speaking, both classes require action to use, therefore require skill.

See how that logic works? I can use it right back on you.

GG. /5chr

catgirl33 wrote: »

Reply in Red

OPKossy wrote: »

.... Well I was wondering how long before someone from a server that was deemed as having worse PvPers for X reason would get offended and cause a derail focused on them.

The problem isnt because DW is assumed to have the worse PvPers. The term 'carebear' is a statement made about the personalities of the players themselves. But by it's own definition, most of the players in PWI are 'carebears' anyway. So why does it make a difference which server it's on?

catgirl33

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

This one's for you catgirl.

1. It's really not, it's a general guess. He explained the reasoning behind it, and that reasoning makes sense. "If a person plays a PvE server, they will most likely prefer PvE activities and/or will not be as skilled as someone on a PvP server, where PvP is more likely to occur." There was no accusation, there was no personal attack, it was only stated that without any extra information it could be stated that you are less likely to be good at PvP due to the server you play.

You could I suppose, though when it comes to a PvP server the fact of the matter is you're subject to attack at all times. This makes PvP encounters far more likely, this means that players on such servers will gain more experience when it comes to PvP simply because they're involved in it far more often. This is why it's generally assumed that PvP servers have better players than PvE servers when it comes to PvP, though there are obvious exceptions to the rule.

2.

I didn't state anything about you. The term carebear has already been defined for you, and that definition isn't really up for debate. The term has a well established meaning and we're not here to discuss it. Due to the fact that you play DW, it's reasonable to assume that you or anyone else, without having prior knowledge of who you are, is a carebear. All PvE servers have a playerbase that consists of mostly players who do not engage in PvP activities if they can help it. They are carebears. I've played DW, Morai, and now Archosaur. All of them had a playerbase of mostly carebears.


3.

Nobody cares one way of the other if you're a carebear or not. You're not really doing yourself any favors by caring so much about a comment that wasn't even directly aimed at you as an insult. God the people on this game are such babies.

I'm not debating whether i'm or DW is a carebear/bad pker or nor am i denying. I'm trying to say when we're using illogical reasoning to make an assumption there is a possibility that the statement can be wrong. I repeated "yet this is exceptional" many times after agreeing to him in some viewpoints and general rules. If there is no evidence, then the statement is invalid, If you''re not certain, then there is a possibility. This is exactly what i'm trying to tell him. Unfortunately it never goes through

I just don't like people making a rude statement especially without valid evidence.

Zanryu - Lothranis

DionDumbass

1.

It's not about whether they are or aren't, it's about what is most likely. I know if I see a feminine guy my first thought is he's into dudes. It's not really about bigotry, that's just a matter of certain people presenting certain traits more often than not.

I'm not here to please you so I don't care much if I disappoint you.


2.

Damn son, don't go all SJW on me. Wait, wait, no, hold on. Please DEFINE your version of white knight! I need you to define it multiple times for me, because I'll never understand it otherwise! Just like how you don't seem to understand the term carebear and want it defined for you constantly.


3.

I don't know man, you're the one that jumped in. I think I have a fair grasp on what was said. Nobody is betting anything, this doesn't have anything to do with gambling. All that was stated was that due to Dreamweaver being PvE it can be assumed that any given player will more likely be a carebear than not. It's LIKELY they'll be bad, it isn't said that they actually are.


4.

I don't actually have an Assassin, so.. yeah. I only play BM.

Indeed, if majority of players have Assassins then it could very well be assumed that I do too if you know nothing else about me. It doesn't automatically mean I do, in the same way none of this means anyone in specific is bad at PvP. Jesus Christ.

This is not the place for a "Sins aren't as good as everyone thinks" argument. I'm the wrong person to argue about that with in the first place, especially when considering the fact that you likely have no legitimate arguments. You'd probably just claim "lolstrawman" and think you've won the argument. Of course, for the sake of giggles, I will address this.

Blademasters don't hit 2-3 harder than Assassins. Assassins will hit Arcanes far harder, they'll hit LA far harder, and they'll hit other HA far harder. In a 1v1, yes the Blademaster will maintain the edge in highest potential hit (though it won't be 2-3x higher than a Sin's max), however the BM's advantage ends there. Assassins have FAR higher sustained DPS than a BM, have you not watched my videos? Have you not seen the completely insane damage I take from an Assassin as a Heavy Armor class? Assassins win the damage competition hands down.

Assassins lack BM's HP and Defense, however they have roughly 5k less HP than BMs do at end game. They do, however, have Tidal Protection, Deaden Nerves, and a far better stunlock. That 5k HP difference isn't a bad tradeoff, if I could lock like a sin or even just have Tidal I'd give up my HP in a heartbeat.

While it make take a certain amount of "skill" to press buttons (I use quotations because, let's face it, pressing 2 buttons in an Assassin to get a kill is not skillful) it requires more skill to perform actions that are more complicated. Assassins can skate by in most fights by simply spamming Lifehunter/Elimination and double sparks. Blademasters, and most other classes for that matter, will have to utilize their chi effectively and micro manage so that they can effectively use their skills. Assassins are about as no skilled as it comes, aside from playing a super overgeared archer and just tab>attacking.



Catgirl

1.

topkek

opkossy

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The problem isnt because DW is assumed to have the worse PvPers. The term 'carebear' is a statement made about the personalities of the players themselves. But by it's own definition, most of the players in PWI are 'carebears' anyway. So why does it make a difference which server it's on?

Because by the very nature of the servers, a PvP server is going to have more general PvP than a PvE server. So someone making an assumption that players on a PvE server will (overall) have less general PvP experience is kinda true.

Sure it may be that 98.99999% of the people on the PvP servers are "carebears" while 99% on the PvE servers are (an incredibly miniscule difference) but it'd still be a reasonable assumption that if you picked someone at random off a PvE server and at random off a PvP server, the one from the PvP server would have more experience with PvP.

There are obviously exceptions to both sides of this and just because someone's from a PvP server doesn't make them better at PvP than anyone from a PvE server. But for the vast majority, the assumption used holds true and there's no real reason to get offended over it. People have been calling each other here carebears for years. Heck, even RPK factions call themselves carebears at times just for the fun. It's far from an offensive remark and there's no reason to take it so personally as to derail the thread into a debate on your own personal merits because you (in general) feel it doesn't apply to you.






Edit: Kay, let's not turn this into an assassin thread and let's at least TRY to get this more civil and back to the original topic.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Ugh, this argument makes my head hurt. Its been explained in every angle how its more likely to have more experience in PvP server than on PvE server when it comes down to PvP. I´m not going to touch that as I see no need for it. What I am going to address is the ludicrous idea of how you cant apply general assumptions on specific people.

When you get really down to it, there is only so many things you can be sure of. Descartes and "I think therefore I am" is pretty down to the only thing you can be certain of. Should this stop you from making assumptions? No, you simply accept the chance of being wrong and change assumption accordingly if new evidence appears.

If, whoever it is we are even arguing bout, is clearly exception to general population, why dont you prove it? I doubt it would take much longer than this argument has so far taken. Granted youtube upload times are ugh.

My assumption is the server with least PvP activity has the least skilled players when it comes down to PvP. I would also say younger servers are at disadvantage with younger(time spent with PWI) playerbase. One thing to account though is TW and especially NW which are the main sources of PvP activity these days, least on PvE servers. Never forget RW, though that has pretty much died down on archo. Anyways, TW and Nw activity are imo larger points for players gaining PvP experience these days than open map PK. I personally only get jumped by sins who distinctly outgear me and I do admit being to carebear, I dont kill ppl for the sake of killing them. Last time I killed somebody was a seeker who was too lazy for positioning or protections with vortex.

Ps. Time to PV and cube before reset while I can.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

DionDumbass

*snip*

Nice butchering of my name there, did that take you long to come up with? Sounds completely original.

You basically proved my point about you being a bigot. The fact you don't even realize it is bigoted is just sad as **.

As to the rest of your post:

I don't go on my own definition of things, I search for their objective meanings, you however do not. The definition of white knighting i gave you was a definition that is posted on hundred of sites accross the net, which i actually made sure was correct before i posted. So much for my own definition.

You seem to dislike sins a lot tho. Umadbro?

OPKossy wrote: »

Because by the very nature of the servers, a PvP server is going to have more general PvP than a PvE server. So someone making an assumption that players on a PvE server will (overall) have less general PvP experience is kinda true.

Sure it may be that 98.99999% of the people on the PvP servers are "carebears" while 99% on the PvE servers are (an incredibly miniscule difference) but it'd still be a reasonable assumption that if you picked someone at random off a PvE server and at random off a PvP server, the one from the PvP server would have more experience with PvP.

There are obviously exceptions to both sides of this and just because someone's from a PvP server doesn't make them better at PvP than anyone from a PvE server. But for the vast majority, the assumption used holds true and there's no real reason to get offended over it. People have been calling each other here carebears for years. Heck, even RPK factions call themselves carebears at times just for the fun. It's far from an offensive remark and there's no reason to take it so personally as to derail the thread into a debate on your own personal merits because you (in general) feel it doesn't apply to you.






Edit: Kay, let's not turn this into an assassin thread and let's at least TRY to get this more civil and back to the original topic.

I am a person that is not afraid of confrontation. Therefore this 'carebear' attitude does not apply. Like i said, they just assume you are even if they are told otherwise. That is my issue.

Would you like someone to assume something about you that is false, and they continue to apply said rediculous assumption even after you have corrected said individual? It's childish. I guess because they have run out of people to PK on their servers they have come to the forums to bash PvE servers. It's sad, and maybe it's also a sign that PK is just about as dead on their servers as it is on ours.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Ugh, this argument makes my head hurt. Its been explained in every angle how its more likely to have more experience in PvP server than on PvE server when it comes down to PvP. I´m not going to touch that as I see no need for it. What I am going to address is the ludicrous idea of how you cant apply general assumptions on specific people.

When you get really down to it, there is only so many things you can be sure of. Descartes and "I think therefore I am" is pretty down to the only thing you can be certain of. Should this stop you from making assumptions? No, you simply accept the chance of being wrong and change assumption accordingly if new evidence appears.

If, whoever it is we are even arguing bout, is clearly exception to general population, why dont you prove it? I doubt it would take much longer than this argument has so far taken. Granted youtube upload times are ugh.

My assumption is the server with least PvP activity has the least skilled players when it comes down to PvP. I would also say younger servers are at disadvantage with younger(time spent with PWI) playerbase. One thing to account though is TW and especially NW which are the main sources of PvP activity these days, least on PvE servers. Never forget RW, though that has pretty much died down on archo. Anyways, TW and Nw activity are imo larger points for players gaining PvP experience these days than open map PK. I personally only get jumped by sins who distinctly outgear me and I do admit being to carebear, I dont kill ppl for the sake of killing them. Last time I killed somebody was a seeker who was too lazy for positioning or protections with vortex.

Ps. Time to PV and cube before reset while I can.

They are guilty of the fallacy of presumption. It's not a ludacris idea, it is a FACT that some assumptions are wrong for certain it dividuals. If there is an exception to the rule, you run the risk of being wrong. But if you never admit that you are wrong when those cases arise, then that is faulty logic. I don't like to assume, and take something for a fact, I like to know. Maybe it is my own skeptical mind, the reason why i find issues with them. Being pragmatic is key.

Quote: "The truth of a general rule, on the other hand, leaves plenty of room for exceptional cases, and applying it to any of them is fallacious."

http://www.philosophypages.com/lg/e06b.htm

opkossy

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am a person that is not afraid of confrontation. Therefore this 'carebear' attitude does not apply. Like i said, they just assume you are even if they are told otherwise. That is my issue.

Would you like someone to assume something about you that is false, and they continue to apply said rediculous assumption even after you have corrected said individual? It's childish. I guess because they have run out of people to PK on their servers they have come to the forums to bash PvE servers. It's sad, and maybe it's also a sign that PK is just about as dead on their servers as it is on ours.

You took offense and started a derail over a non-offensive (and factual, tbh) generalization about a server where the person who made said generalization flat out stated in a latter post that there's room for individuals that it doesn't apply to even if it's accurate as a whole.

... I really am not seeing how you're supposed to have a point here. What you've started here would be like if I got my panties in a twist because some guy said women are more likely to enjoy planning weddings than men due to X and it happens to be true even if I, personally, don't care much for planning weddings. And then I started an argument about bigotry that completely ruined the purpose of the conversation that was previously going on because my ego couldn't handle that I was an individual that didn't fit a true statement.


Regardless, there's no reason for anyone from any server to be getting upset about this. You and catgirl both went and took this personally for practically no reason and have dragged this into an off-topic argument that has barely anything to do with the initial topic. Practically right after it just got on-topic again from another debate about semantics involving what it means to PvP and so on. Really there's no point or reason for this current argument you're perpetuating to be in this this thread.


In short: Let's get back to the topic instead of having some pointless fight that has near nothing to do with what it's about.

Zanryu - Lothranis

OPKossy wrote: »

You took offense and started a derail over a non-offensive (and factual, tbh) generalization about a server where the person who made said generalization flat out stated in a latter post that there's room for individuals that it doesn't apply to even if it's accurate as a whole.

... I really am not seeing how you're supposed to have a point here. What you've started here would be like if I got my panties in a twist because some guy said women are more likely to enjoy planning weddings than men due to X and it happens to be true even if I, personally, don't care much for planning weddings. And then I started an argument about bigotry that completely ruined the purpose of the conversation that was previously going on because my ego couldn't handle that I was an individual that didn't fit a true statement.


Regardless, there's no reason for anyone from any server to be getting upset about this. You and catgirl both went and took this personally for practically no reason and have dragged this into an off-topic argument that has barely anything to do with the initial topic. Practically right after it just got on-topic again from another debate about semantics involving what it means to PvP and so on. Really there's no point or reason for this current argument you're perpetuating to be in this this thread.


In short: Let's get back to the topic instead of having some pointless fight that has near nothing to do with what it's about.

You know you dun goofd when a Mod's posting in the same thread as me and we're making the same points.

REKD
DOUBLE REKD
SUPER REKD

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

You took offense and started a derail over a non-offensive (and factual, tbh) generalization about a server where the person who made said generalization flat out stated in a latter post that there's room for individuals that it doesn't apply to even if it's accurate as a whole.

... I really am not seeing how you're supposed to have a point here. What you've started here would be like if I got my panties in a twist because some guy said women are more likely to enjoy planning weddings than men due to X and it happens to be true even if I, personally, don't care much for planning weddings. And then I started an argument about bigotry that completely ruined the purpose of the conversation that was previously going on because my ego couldn't handle that I was an individual that didn't fit a true statement.


Regardless, there's no reason for anyone from any server to be getting upset about this. You and catgirl both went and took this personally for practically no reason and have dragged this into an off-topic argument that has barely anything to do with the initial topic. Practically right after it just got on-topic again from another debate about semantics involving what it means to PvP and so on. Really there's no point or reason for this current argument you're perpetuating to be in this this thread.


In short: Let's get back to the topic instead of having some pointless fight that has near nothing to do with what it's about.

Who said we were upset? I like how you just assumed that.

Fact is the statement was untrue.

Fact is it was a generalization that was proven false.

Need i say more? I never said i took it personally, i simply said i don't like it. Those two are NOT the same.

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

You know you dun goofd when a Mod's posting in the same thread as me and we're making the same points.

REKD
DOUBLE REKD
SUPER REKD

Mods are people too, they are not immune from fallacies. Next time you wanna use an argument from authority, make sure its a good one.

#Logic

Fight that ****.

catgirl33

OPKossy wrote: »

You took offense and started a derail over a non-offensive (and factual, tbh) generalization about a server where the person who made said generalization flat out stated in a latter post that there's room for individuals that it doesn't apply to even if it's accurate as a whole.

... I really am not seeing how you're supposed to have a point here. What you've started here would be like if I got my panties in a twist because some guy said women are more likely to enjoy planning weddings than men due to X and it happens to be true even if I, personally, don't care much for planning weddings. And then I started an argument about bigotry that completely ruined the purpose of the conversation that was previously going on because my ego couldn't handle that I was an individual that didn't fit a true statement.


Regardless, there's no reason for anyone from any server to be getting upset about this. You and catgirl both went and took this personally for practically no reason and have dragged this into an off-topic argument that has barely anything to do with the initial topic. Practically right after it just got on-topic again from another debate about semantics involving what it means to PvP and so on. Really there's no point or reason for this current argument you're perpetuating to be in this this thread.


In short: Let's get back to the topic instead of having some pointless fight that has near nothing to do with what it's about.

I never took it personally. I just don't like the untrue statement that he made as i already have said it and that generalization has exception.

opkossy

Do... do you guys not know what a generalization is? Considering how you're acting here, I'm thinking you don't.

Let me give you an example: Saying that humans typically are born, raised, and die in a single country is a generalization. Many many people travel internationally on a regular basis, move, and so on. The vast majority? Not-so-much. Just because there ARE a large amount of people who break this does not make the generalization any less true.

You guys are treating what he said as if he's trying to make a claim of all-inclusive absolute fact that has no room for error whatsoever and thus is worth starting a thread derailing argument about. It isn't and you shouldn't.

... and we also shouldn't be continuing this silly tangent here. If you guys want to bring out the classic PvP vs PvE server PK skill debate, make your own thread for it or take it up in PM instead of continuing to drag it out here.

Zanryu - Lothranis

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Mods are people too, they are not immune from fallacies. Next time you wanna use an argument from authority, make sure its a good one.

#Logic

Fight that ****.

Pfftbahahahahaha

All I said was that Kossy seems to be on the side that disagrees with you, and it's pretty easy to see why. Someone made a generalization and the two of you got butthurt over it, you more than catgirl. I'm not using Kossy's argument, I've made plenty of my own, none of which you've been able to truly refute.

See, I can use fancy words too. Not that calling everything we say a fallacy really helps your argument in the first place.

Try not to take forum posts so seriously yo.

Oh, ****, you said Kossy's argument is bad. OOOH YOU GON GET IT NOW GET HIM KOSSY, GET HIM! TIME TO TAKE THE GLOVES OFF AND GET HIM! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They are guilty of the fallacy of presumption. It's not a ludacris idea, it is a FACT that some assumptions are wrong for certain it dividuals. If there is an exception to the rule, you run the risk of being wrong. But if you never admit that you are wrong when those cases arise, then that is faulty logic. I don't like to assume, and take something for a fact, I like to know. Maybe it is my own skeptical mind, the reason why i find issues with them. Being pragmatic is key.

Quote: "The truth of a general rule, on the other hand, leaves plenty of room for exceptional cases, and applying it to any of them is fallacious."

http://www.philosophypages.com/lg/e06b.htm

Obviously general rules have their exceptions, where did I not agree to that point? You want certainty of something to the point where there is no room for general statements, which is ludicrous. I am yet to see any evidence for exception here and thus their reasoning seems valid in my eyes. So why dont you put the energy shown in this arguing to use and prove the existence of a "exceptional case" in here?

tsyfall

Imagine how differently this whole thread would go if people actually knew who unrefuted and catgirl33 were. They could trashtalk and do all sorts of strawman/ad hominem stuff.

By the way, I can guarantee that there are no more than 20 PvPers across all International servers who can even hold a candle to some of the other places that Perfect World is played. In fact, that might be an overestimate.

But seriously, don't assume that this is the only pond.

unrefuted

LMAO. DionDagger wants to accuse people of logical fallacies when he doesn't even know the basic difference between Universal Quantification and Existential Quantification. He wants to correct people on statistics when he can't even differentiate between Sample Spaces and individual Elements. Did you fall asleep in lectures for all of first year university? Or maybe you did not even get into university? Give up bro. You make me laugh too hard to even debate with you. You lost this one.



Same goes for this catgirl guy. You still don't seem to understand that if more practice = more experience, then less practice = less experience. So yes, you (As in anyone from Dreamweaver, not just you in particular) COULD be as good as someone from a PvP server, and I WOULD believe it if there was proof. But until then, it is more likely that you're not as good as someone from a PvP server, because it is more likely that you don't practice as much as someone from a PvP server.

So in otherwords, if you were fighting someone from lost city, I'm going to bet on the person from lost city and not you. b:bye

In case you (As in you, yourself) still haven't seen the obvious connection yet

"But I don’t pk random people just because they’re targetable." - People on PvP servers do.
"We choose to be drama-free and therefore we’re carebear." - People on PvP servers don't.

Which means...

There is more pk!
There is more practice!
They have more experience!

Finally, Xaner supports my assertion that people don't tend to think of other people as good until they win. "Now when i do fight these people... I will have random people pm me that i am sht..."

tsyfall

b:laugh b:cry b:laugh b:cry b:laugh

I'm sorry

unrefuted wrote: »

In case you (As in you, yourself) still haven't seen the obvious connection yet

He's not referencing his next two quotes ahahahahahahaha

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

unrefuted wrote: »

LMAO. DionDagger wants to accuse people of logical fallacies when he doesn't even know the basic difference between Universal Quantification and Existential Quantification. He wants to correct people on statistics when he can't even differentiate between Sample Spaces and individual Elements. Did you fall asleep in lectures for all of first year university? Or maybe you did not even get into university? Give up bro. You make me laugh too hard to even debate with you. You lost this one.



Same goes for this catgirl guy. You still don't seem to understand that if more practice = more experience, then less practice = less experience. So yes, you (As in anyone from Dreamweaver, not just you in particular) COULD be as good as someone from a PvP server, and I WOULD believe it if there was proof. But until then, it is more likely that you're not as good as someone from a PvP server, because it is more likely that you don't practice as much as someone from a PvP server.

So in otherwords, if you were fighting someone from lost city, I'm going to bet on the person from lost city and not you. b:bye

In case you (As in you, yourself) still haven't seen the obvious connection yet

"But I don’t pk random people just because they’re targetable." - People on PvP servers do.
"We choose to be drama-free and therefore we’re carebear." - People on PvP servers don't.

Which means...

There is more pk!
There is more practice!
They have more experience!

Finally, Xaner supports my assertion that people don't tend to think of other people as good until they win. "Now when i do fight these people... I will have random people pm me that i am sht..."

Give me a list of 25 skilled people of all servers of PWI combined.
I doubt you can because skill and pwi don't mix. Practice? You call "whoever gets the first hit or debuff landed first wins" practice?
Oneshotting is practice?

Drama MUST be included or else you're a carebear?

PvP in PWI is dominated by people with the mental state of a 12 year old in a candy store.

Conclusion for me:
PWI does not have any good PvP, all PvP on any given PWI server is complete **** until balance happens, which is not going to happen.

Also, there's a thing called natural talent, since you seem to like to drag real life into this.

ps: worst server is whatever server tsy plays on b:avoid

Zsw - Dreamweaver

GG???????????????????????
Just what.

Tsy is best sin though. b:shocked He will singlehandedly make any server the best server.

Viktorian - Archosaur

unrefuted wrote: »

LMAO. DionDagger wants to accuse people of logical fallacies when he doesn't even know the basic difference between Universal Quantification and Existential Quantification.

I don't know the difference either.
side note: I might if I could figure out what terms mean.

Dragslave - Dreamweaver

hmm... hard to know who has the worst pk.. but probably is dreamweaver, not fun pk'ing there, when u want to do a 1 vs 1, 3 ppl jump at u and kill u... so yeah... gets boring.
Personally i dont pk... i would get the strongest ppl in the server (my own faction) hunting me down QQ meanies.... XD

BUT!!! if we ever get cross server pk, definitely dreamweaver will roll every server, why? well, they have me.... and im awesome ofc... and we have an army of no lifers ready to farm, cash and merch their life, soul and family away to get best gear and crush everyone else!!!

go dreamweaver!!!b:victory

Xaner - Dreamweaver

unrefuted wrote: »

Finally, Xaner supports my assertion that people don't tend to think of other people as good until they win. "Now when i do fight these people... I will have random people pm me that i am sht..."

Damn man.. You almost had a valid argument... Till you started using partial quotes...

Like unrefuted said "anyone in dreamweaver has more practice = more experience. dreamweaver PK a lot and are good, they're automatically popular"

tsyfall

I'm not sure why this discussion is even being continued when Xaner already stated that unrefuted was correct:

Xaner - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Like... Damn man... unrefuted... had a valid argument... they're automatically popular

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

GG???????????????????????
Just what.

Tsy is best sin though. b:shocked He will singlehandedly make any server the best server.

But it only took me a single visit on a veno toon and a single troll action to get him killed b:sad

Even though that's a while ago on your old homeplace.

I am still missing the poll option "All of the above" though.

opkossy

We all know PWI isn't near the top of the food chain in overall skill, so that's not saying much.

Remember PWIC (which was chosen via a PvE activity because.... our management did not think it through entirely, I guess or weren't equipped to choose in a better manner) where we got knocked out in the very first round in a setting where there was no gear gap and it was all about teamwork and squadplay? Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah. b:chuckle

Joe - Morai

OPKossy wrote: »

We all know PWI isn't near the top of the food chain in overall skill, so that's not saying much.

Remember PWIC (which was chosen via a PvE activity because.... our management did not think it through entirely, I guess or weren't equipped to choose in a better manner) where we got knocked out in the very first round in a setting where there was no gear gap and it was all about teamwork and squadplay? Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah. b:chuckle

Mainly because those "pro" gamers can't handle fights w/o a gear gap. But seriously...who can blame them? Being better or lesser geared is a common situation in PWIs pvp. How could they know how to deal with equally geared ppl if not through...you know (I definitly try not to speak it out...but... ._.).

Another point was that senseless PvE ****. Most just bulked together the strongest DDs to finish it first...no thought of possible strategies involved...but ya that was a flaw from the management clearly.

That's ehy I say: Roll a cross server 1on1 PvP event. Only self buffs. Matches each round. No cards. Same gears. The winners get to participate in the new PWIC.

But meh. I'd win anyways...so that would be alot of work just to praise me (:

(Yes thats meant to provoke and yes we need cross server pvp. Let it be 1on1s. Please!) Then we could see which server got the worst PvP. I so wanna stomp in so many big mouths from all the other servers...damn that would be a major enjoyment. Make it happen PWE! Entry fee 100 golds? No prob!