New "stun" skill effect

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

You sound like getting all skills including upgraded and new passive ones is something unobtainable and ppl should skip one in favour of another. Blood is easily obtainable now, soon all will get their passive skills alongside with active, and again will be in advantage in comparison to classes who didn't get anything good in this update.
I would find it even fair somehow if you had to choose between extra defence or some OP skills. But everyone will get everything shortly, week (or even a month) later, week earlier, does it make any difference?

Your right they aren't unobtainable, and as I said I am indeed well aware people will eventually catch up/will be at an advantage as some of the skills really are worth getting and that couple with the passive skills some people are going to be real terrifying.

b:avoid

Socqar - Lost City

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

You sound like getting all skills including upgraded and new passive ones is something unobtainable and ppl should skip one in favour of another. Blood is easily obtainable now, soon all will get their passive skills alongside with active, and again will be in advantage in comparison to classes who didn't get anything good in this update.
I would find it even fair somehow if you had to choose between extra defence or some OP skills. But everyone will get everything shortly, week (or even a month) later, week earlier, does it make any difference?

1 month for full skills and mirage sky X, so one month are 2-3 classes will be completly screwed of new content Oh well, let's start praying now for at least something new (not OP, at least worth xD) in next update

FaceRolI - Sanctuary wrote: »

OMG you are soooooo noooooob!! all you have to do is DS away and then because you have RANGE it will be IMPOSSIBLE for BMs to get near you! \o/ its not like they have any of their own leaping/teleporting skills or the ability to run faster or the chance to pull you towards them. l2play man... and if your GEAR isnt good enough to tank an enemy squad for 7.5 seconds then you obviously have no SKILLS.

god so fail... how can you call that OP? you have RANGE!! as long as you never get hit youll be fine!

You... should... really check someone's gear before making such claims, just to let you know mooo is probably at this point the more OP char in our server.

Just hope you were being sarcastic or something O.o (Too sleepy to catch that if it was the case tho)

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

-snip-


You... should... really check someone's gear before making such claims, just to let you know mooo is probably at this point the more OP char in our server.

Just hope you were being sarcastic or something O.o (Too sleepy to catch that if it was the case tho)

I am fairly sure it was in mockery of me.

I am not going to get into another argument with them, they don't relent on their belief by even an inch.

Also for the record again I never said it wasn't oped... just merely pointed out the flaws in each of the skills even if they weren't the exploitable flaws you all wished them to be.

I didn't ignore the 'flaws' of purify proc just because it didn't 'fit' me/I simply just felt much like you all do now, that the 'flaws' of the proc are to few/hard to exploit in the time that the purify proc (in your all's case the paralyze effect) is out there. (Hard doesn't mean impossible)

either way I am done replying this this thread seriously like this. Too stressful.

ablabahabla

Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »

I still find it weird that more ppl complain about the barb skill which is short and not 100% and less about the bm version which is Aliens. and lol to ppl who think it isn't easily spammable.

all i can answer to this is:
[URL="listen to it at 0:59"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d27gTrPPAyk[/URL]

b:laugh

prof

ITT: I'm no longer 110% immune to stuns, OP.
In purify threads: Stop whining noobs, L2P, nonfactor, purify isn't OP.

silly pwi players

As for this argument that OP skills shouldn't exist in the first place, sure, I agree. It's funny that only after the melee classes get something of equal power to purify(arguably, I'd still vote in favour of purify and tidal having the edge) that everyone suddenly agrees that OP stuff should be removed, but whatever. However, simply removing OP skills is not going to fix pwi. Attack/Defense levels, r9 in general.. it's all stupidly imbalanced. At this point, the only realistic way to fix this game would be to make a new one, and they've tried that 6 times with no success thus far.

Despite your public yearning for "balance", you all like being OP. This is a common fad among many online games. If it's not OP, people don't play it. Balance isn't fun, because it takes time and skill to be good. Why fight without an advantage over your opponents? A chance to lose just isn't fun to the modern gaming community. Proposing "challenge" in any amount of content earns developers little more than whining from their player base demanding nerfs.

The time of fun and challenging games is long gone, and this community is a shining example as to why.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Mania - Lost City wrote: »

I have not really read every post but I wanted to leave some input as a fellow magic class with puri.


My personal opinions is that firstly, PWI is an MMO - It's sort of expected we should be playing as a group, together, making social connections online, friends, enemys, it's pretty much a second life.

With the intent of this being a game to play with others (sometimes you get ganked, sometimes you get 1v1s) - with the mass PK when puri is vital, I find that the new stun is actually a really good thing, it doesn't allow us a get out of jail free card but it does allow us to rely on our fellow team mates more, and work as a team on an MMO - I have to depend on my fellow pk buddies to stop whoever is spam paralyzing me, (as a team) - It makes the game more exciting, it makes me rely on my friends more instead of what was once an overpowered proc. Sometimes it works in our favor, sometimes it doesn't - It wasn't exactly fair to the melee classes doing all this work to kill someone then POOF puri- It kinda sucks for us, it was a really nice life saver, and it STILL is a very powerful and useful proc, but it's fair that the close-range melee classes get something like this, life was really too difficult for them with the puri, we could just run away, and it's not really skill, that was luck of the proc - We still have our proc, it's just going to work a little less- if anything this skill has balanced the PVP field a little if anything.

Let the melee class keep their skill, we had our fun with our Houdini skills, now give them a fair chance, and remind your teammates to get those poopers off you when needed! - Team work all around

b:victory

Give any unblockable stun to a sin, especially an aps one. Watch you and everyone that agrees with this skill come back QQing.

prof wrote: »

ITT: I'm no longer 110% immune to stuns, OP.
In purify threads: Stop whining noobs, L2P, nonfactor, purify isn't OP.

silly pwi players

As for this argument that OP skills shouldn't exist in the first place, sure, I agree. It's funny that only after the melee classes get something of equal power to purify(arguably, I'd still vote in favour of purify and tidal having the edge) that everyone suddenly agrees that OP stuff should be removed, but whatever. However, simply removing OP skills is not going to fix pwi. Attack/Defense levels, r9 in general.. it's all stupidly imbalanced. At this point, the only realistic way to fix this game would be to make a new one, and they've tried that 6 times with no success thus far.

Despite your public yearning for "balance", you all like being OP. This is a common fad among many online games. If it's not OP, people don't play it. Balance isn't fun, because it takes time and skill to be good. Why fight without an advantage over your opponents? A chance to lose just isn't fun to the modern gaming community. Proposing "challenge" in any amount of content earns developers little more than whining from their player base demanding nerfs.

The time of fun and challenging games is long gone, and this community is a shining example as to why.

I believe in balancing by perfect imbalance, i.e. cons and counter play. Purify has 0 downsides and very little counter play. Zerk has 2, HP loss, and melee range on most skills (except for seekers), as for counter play, reducing the amount of hits they have on you reduces the chance to zerk crit.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I believe in balancing by perfect imbalance, i.e. cons and counter play. Purify has 0 downsides and very little counter play. Zerk has 2, HP loss, and melee range on most skills (except for seekers), as for counter play, reducing the amount of hits they have on you reduces the chance to zerk crit.

purify does have 1-2 downsides, it overrides other antistun/movement speed apo/skill, still such a trivial fking downside lol

the only real counterplay for purify is disarm, and now the barb skill

Desdi - Sanctuary

What's done is done and unless they decide to modify Paralyze (and nerf Purify proc) we just gotta adapt to it. Don't like the new Paralyze? Time to bring an army of Barbarians and Blademasters with you xD

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

purify does have 1-2 downsides, it overrides other antistun/movement speed apo/skill, still such a trivial fking downside lol

the only real counterplay for purify is disarm, and now the barb skill

Its not a downside considering it removed debuffs and is stronger than any of those skills and apo available. The only speed boost faster is holy path, which doesnt anti stun. The only antistun thats better is Vac powder, which doesn't give a speed boost. If anything it allows them to be more picky about APO for pure defense reasons. Removing the skill that it takes to defend yourself against attacks. It's passive, requires 0 chi, and no action on the casters part. If you can get lucky with a chain of procs as well, how is this a downside? I can't find one.

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

What's done is done and unless they decide to modify Paralyze (and nerf Purify proc) we just gotta adapt to it. Don't like the new Paralyze? Time to bring an army of Barbarians and Blademasters with you xD

Hopefully this revives the BM class a bit, even if its for the wrong reasons.

Eoria - Harshlands

They wouldn't have had to implement puri proc if they had just nerfed aps some and nerfed sins into the ground in the first place.

ResMePls - Heavens Tear

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

You haven't seen purify spell related topic...

I'm an 0ld player trust me I remember the mass threads 0f QQ ab0ut it. Seems like it still hasn't really g0ne away.

Loshon - Archosaur

Do any of ya'll's arguments really matter? I mean, seriously... everyone ought to know by now how free to play mmos are. pwi is no exception. Whining, complaining, even giving legitimate pros and cons of something they added, i.e. r9, purify add-on, the outdated aps, unblockable stuns, etc.

As someone else already said, adapt. People adapted to aps, they adapted to r9, they adapted r9 3rd cast, they adapted to purify add on, and in time when more people gain this new stun and we can see how it will actually affect game play (I still don't think it's going to change much), people will adapt to it as well.

with that being said, ya'll's arguments in regards to this particular skill is based entirely off speculation. not every bm/barb has the new skill. wait a few months, observe how it affects game play, THEN make your arguments. we have a new fangled invention called the scientific method. use it.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

not every bm/barb has the new skill.

The barb skill only cost 10 bloods, which means a barb is able to get it directly after rebirth, so come again?

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

They wouldn't have had to implement puri proc if they had just nerfed aps some and nerfed sins into the ground in the first place.

Sins were never the problem, the problem was putting aps anywear near endgame gear. G13 daggers were very close to the end game gears and armors of that day, which made aps OP, even with decent defense. So please, stop deflecting this on the sin class.

If anything if purify was ever removed, r9rr aps barbs would be more of an issue, as proven mutiple times on servers that removed it.

Loshon - Archosaur

The barb skill only cost 10 bloods, which means a barb is able to get it directly after rebirth, so come again?

Has every single barb on all servers made it to level 100 the first time? Has every single barb on all servers even rebirthed, yet?

No, I don't think so. I'm sure there's still a few around that haven't made it that far. I'm sure many barbs do. But at the same time, many do not.

Also, if I recall correctly, this discussion includes the bm class as well. and I can guarantee you that not every bm has the skill. Not every bm has even rebirthed yet.

Remember, some people are either lazy, or just don't have as much time as others to spare on pwi, or choose not to spend that much time here to get the skill immediately.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

Do any of ya'll's arguments really matter? I mean, seriously... everyone ought to know by now how free to play mmos are. pwi is no exception. Whining, complaining, even giving legitimate pros and cons of something they added, i.e. r9, purify add-on, the outdated aps, unblockable stuns, etc.

As someone else already said, adapt. People adapted to aps, they adapted to r9, they adapted r9 3rd cast, they adapted to purify add on, and in time when more people gain this new stun and we can see how it will actually affect game play (I still don't think it's going to change much), people will adapt to it as well.

with that being said, ya'll's arguments in regards to this particular skill is based entirely off speculation. not every bm/barb has the new skill. wait a few months, observe how it affects game play, THEN make your arguments. we have a new fangled invention called the scientific method. use it.

For adaptation there needs to be counter play, this skill has no counter play.
Your argument isn't very sound.

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

Has every single barb on all servers made it to level 100 the first time? Has every single barb on all servers even rebirthed, yet?

No, I don't think so. I'm sure there's still a few around that haven't made it that far. I'm sure many barbs do. But at the same time, many do not.

Also, if I recall correctly, this discussion includes the bm class as well. and I can guarantee you that not every bm has the skill. Not every bm has even rebirthed yet.

Remember, some people are either lazy, or just don't have as much time as others to spare on pwi, or choose not to spend that much time here to get the skill immediately.

Any barb participating in PvP WILL reach lv100 at the least, that is the only place this skill matters. You seem to be missing that. So a skill that cost 10 bloods, which you get directly after rebirthing, has 0 cons besides range on the fastest class in game, for a skill that isn't rare at all, and can not be blocked under normal circumstances. Is balanced? Or fair?

Loshon - Archosaur

Has anyone tested any genie skills that may or may not be able to remove/make one immune to this particular paralyze?

Are there not ways to avoid being hit with a melee skill? Also, bear in mind for bms, I'm pretty sure the skill still costs a spark to use and is single target only.

There are counters, they may not seem very good counters, but they are there. In mass pvp, the bm skill simply isn't practical (except in the flag carrying nws and cata barbs in tws). In 1v1, I can see how it would be difficult to get around. I'm actually quite eager to face off against another bm or barb with that skill. The challange should be interesting.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Any barb participating in PvP WILL reach lv100 at the least, that is the only place this skill matters. You seem to be missing that. So a skill that cost 10 bloods, which you get directly after rebirthing, has 0 cons besides range on the fastest class in game, for a skill that isn't rare at all, and can not be blocked under normal circumstances. Is balanced? Or fair?

Is it fair? Of course not. Neither is life, yet people still survive and manage. The point I'm trying to make is that nothing is going to change. PWI does not care about it's player base. never has, never will. No corporation or large business does. It's all about the $$$. All we can do is adapt.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

Has anyone tested any genie skills that may or may not be able to remove/make one immune to this particular paralyze?

You do realize that testing was how this thread got started right?

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

Are there not ways to avoid being hit with a melee skill? Also, bear in mind for bms, I'm pretty sure the skill still costs a spark to use and is single target only.

The problem isn't that you can avoid it, the problem is in a battle of attrition, the barb or bm will win vs most classes. Which gives them the edge to getting the stun off.

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

There are counters, they may not seem very good counters, but they are there. In mass pvp, the bm skill simply isn't practical (except in the flag carrying nws and cata barbs in tws). In 1v1, I can see how it would be difficult to get around. I'm actually quite eager to face off against another bm or barb with that skill. The challange should be interesting.

I myself like challenges, but some challenges you have no chance at winning, those are the ones i dislike. I see your points but you are missing some things. The BM stun has a very quick channel of 0.4 secs, how is it not practical? Other than chi cost? If they force you to blow resources quickly only to fall prey to it again before your cd's are back up, then its not a good counter. 4 sec cd on the barb skill is rediculous, you get hit, to blow an apo, most of which last 10 secs, barb can use Invoke, which last 20 secs, or their own anti stun which last 10 secs. After your apo or genie skill has worn off, the likely hood the getting hit again is very high, which is a waste of your apo if not one helps you CC the barb.

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

Is it fair? Of course not. Neither is life, yet people still survive and manage.

This is obvious, but should you take whatever is thrown at you? No. So this comment is moot.

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is that nothing is going to change. PWI does not care about it's player base. never has, never will. No corporation or large business does. It's all about the $$$. All we can do is adapt.

You sir, have no idea about the world of business then. There are entire companies based on helping customers alone, so you speak with very little merit.

Loshon - Archosaur

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You do realize that testing was how this thread got started right?


The problem isn't that you can avoid it, the problem is in a battle of attrition, the barb or bm will win vs most classes. Which gives them the edge to getting the stun off.

I myself like challenges, but some challenges you have no chance at winning, those are the ones i dislike. I see your points but you are missing some things. The BM stun has a very quick channel of 0.4 secs, how is it not practical? Other than chi cost? If they force you to blow resources quickly only to fall prey to it again before your cd's are back up, then its not a good counter. 4 sec cd on the barb skill is rediculous, you get hit, to blow an apo, most of which last 10 secs, barb can use Invoke, which last 20 secs, or their own anti stun which last 10 secs. After your apo or genie skill has worn off, the likely hood the getting hit again is very high, which is a waste of your apo if not one helps you CC the barb.



This is obvious, but should you take whatever is thrown at you? No. So this comment is moot.

You sir, have no idea about the world of business then. There are entire companies based on helping customers alone, so you speak with very little merit.

bear with me here, I'm not sure how to do the individual quotes and it's late:

1) There's way too many replies to this one, but I read the one in the bm subforum. I think some have mentioned that faith should, and maybe another. I can't remember now.

2) Battles of attrition... well, I'm not very experienced in pvp (outside of the very little experience with tw/nw), so I'll take back my comments on this.

3) I believe I concurred that it was an op skill when used against flag carriers/cata pullers. But then, so is purify proc. Still, people have adapted to it. Course, one could also argue that the advanced holy proc on g15 claws is op. Still, an increase in chi cost or maybe a 3 sec freeze (much like the bolt of tyreasses (sp?) lvl 79 skill for bms does, give and take) added to it to balance it out. Though people would still complain. Always do. Lastly, you cannot deny that a r9 3rd cast mage with the flag in nw is nearly unstoppable unless there are other r9 3rd casts, or a group of g16 highly refined there to stop them. As a bm, I feel absolutely useless trying to chase down a caster with the flag unable to stun them unless occult ice manages to hit. *shrugs* maybe the failing is mine. I never claimed to be very good.

hell, I was only trying to point out a few things, but you're right. I'm sorry for posting. Won't happen again.

4) Moot? Perhaps, but common sense is not common, but a rarity. I'm sure you're well aware of this.

5) You're right. I don't know much about the business world. I only know that capitalism is not something I like. But then, I'm not good at making money either :P and whether there are other companies out there based on helping customers or not is irrelevant. PWI has very seldom listened to player base. When they have listened, people complained, unfortunately. But you cannot deny the fact that PWI's goal is to make money off the games they have released. Course, that isn't exactly relevant to the topic either lol

SilverMayhem - Archosaur

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You do realize that testing was how this thread got started right?

Actually, this thread was posted based off of Speculation of both skills being Game Breaking. Not BROKEN. Read the starting post >.> "It's likely.." = Theory/Speculation. "...does anyone feel..." = Personal Feelings based on what you have read.

The problem isn't that you can avoid it, the problem is in a battle of attrition, the barb or bm will win vs most classes. Which gives them the edge to getting the stun off.

1v1 Yeah. I may or may not depending on gear, sharding, Cards, Nuema, Rebirthing lvl, Apoth, Genie CD/Build, Additional Adds to Helm/Cape, Rings, Neck and Belt gears through NW forges. b:chuckle But in a Mass PK. I think we all agree that barbs have always been thought of as a Support DD or something to that nature. With that being said. In mass PK pfft, i'll kill one of you. But even without this. Even with it was a 60% stun. I'd still kill at least one of you. Now its a little more "Guaranteed" to kill that one person, whoever it may be. Still got massive AoEs from Seekers, BMs, Psys, Wizards and Mystics to worry about.

I myself like challenges, but some challenges you have no chance at winning, those are the ones i dislike. I see your points but you are missing some things. The BM stun has a very quick channel of 0.4 secs, how is it not practical? Other than chi cost? If they force you to blow resources quickly only to fall prey to it again before your cd's are back up, then its not a good counter. 4 sec cd on the barb skill is rediculous, you get hit, to blow an apo, most of which last 10 secs, barb can use Invoke, which last 20 secs, or their own anti stun which last 10 secs. After your apo or genie skill has worn off, the likely hood the getting hit again is very high, which is a waste of your apo if not one helps you CC the barb.

Wrong, 6 sec CD Paralyze last for 4 secs. Also. As a sin, I'll hit you. Chance of knocking you down is 60% with your Tidal/Focus (Sage or Demon depended) you may Escape the Knock Down. BUT lets say you get knocked down You get up, Throat Cut. Stun. Sleep. Stun. Throat Cut. Oh forgot Freeze. Here i'll explain the idea alittle better.

Throatcut - Tackling Slash - Headhunt (unless the barb didn't get frozen, then Shadow Teleport) - Deep Sting - Shadow Teleport/Headhunt - Throat Cut. All while in Chill of the Deep. Yeah, thats gonna hurt. You wanna talk about CC? A sin should not be complaining about CC or lack of.

I love this quote tho. It kinda sums up the defense for the Barb skill:

" (barbs fine since they had not much cc before and the stun is not 100%)" - Mooooooooo - Lost City

You can go through the list of skills that barbs have an pick out each one Demon and Sage. Only skill that HAD a 100% chance to make you stand still was our 2 sec Stun. YAY 2 extra secs of "Ima get the balls out of here".

Oh and Have you seen the speed of Demon Venos? Barbs arn't the fastest class in the game FYI. My demon Veno is 10.(?) speed. My Demon Kitty is 8.8 Sage barb is what? 9.(2). Not to mention Barbs don't have any skills that inc Speed like Archers, Sins, Seekers, BMs, VENOS (demon).

But im for the Rocket Booster for Clerics Skill Clerics run SLOW!! I feel bad when my Surf Impact hits them and doesn't freeze. Its like Chasing after a snail

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Loshon - Archosaur wrote: »

*snip*

I do agree, PWI rarely shows that it cares about the player base. However they have shown 'some' concern (+10 orbs, buffing cleric, purify, slight nerf to aps, nerfing goonz). They haven't put forth the best effort, but they have shown some concern, albeit going horribly about it.

SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »

I love this quote tho. It kinda sums up the defense for the Barb skill:

" (barbs fine since they had not much cc before and the stun is not 100%)" - Mooooooooo - Lost City Barb didn't have much CC because they didn't need it, once again, a battle of attrition. Barb WILL win that, by out tanking you and preventing your escape. This skill gives them the edge of CC: unblockable CC. Even if it doesn't land 100% its more than enough to find yourself useless and unable to get out of it by things that would NORMALLY counter it, which reduces counter play.

You can go through the list of skills that barbs have an pick out each one Demon and Sage. Only skill that HAD a 100% chance to make you stand still was our 2 sec Stun. YAY 2 extra secs of "Ima get the balls out of here". You conviently forget Alacrity and Ancestral rage.


Oh and Have you seen the speed of Demon Venos? Barbs arn't the fastest class in the game FYI. My demon Veno is 10.(?) speed. My Demon Kitty is 8.8 Sage barb is what? 9.(2). Not to mention Barbs don't have any skills that inc Speed like Archers, Sins, Seekers, BMs, VENOS (demon). R9.3 sage barbs have a speed of 10.3 in mighty form, I have several sage r9.3 barb in my TW faction. Also demon veno's require them to use a skill to constantly attain that speed, barbs do not.

But im for the Rocket Booster for Clerics Skill Clerics run SLOW!! I feel bad when my Surf Impact hits them and doesn't freeze. Its like Chasing after a snail Ever proced purify on a cleric? Just to be slept, kited, and hit with an SoG combo? Yes even through SAGE tidal. You seem to also forget holy path. Once again you have twice my run speed, so your comparison relays to barbs only.

It's funny how people miss details. Btw I mained a barb before i made my sin, I still think the skill is OP even with barbs being my favorite class.

bannedabuse

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You conviently forget Alacrity and Ancestral rage.



It's funny how people miss details. Btw I mained a barb before i made my sin, I still think the skill is OP even with barbs being my favorite class.

Alacrity is 50% to immobilize for 3 secs, 8 sec CD.
Ancestral rage is 100% to immobilize for 8 secs 1 spark 1 min CD.
You can still cast your skills under that effect.

Barbs only have one 100% stun skill and that's our 2 sec aoe stun. Might Swing is 50% (sage) - 60% (Demon) chance to stun. Demon Frighten has a 20% chance to stun.

Battle of attrition is simply not true for Barb vs Casters. With how high attack level can stack and how much DD power they have, it's pretty common for barbs to get one shotted by casters. I know I've been one shotted by Wizzies (spark) and Venos (lucky magic break debuff). I'm sure other caster classes with their DD combos can do the same but sadly I don't have my old toon anymore. My barb's gear was above average (full JOSD +11-12 R999 albit missing a few NW items)

Archers, on the other hard, is barb food.

Saethos - Raging Tide

I just got the new Dragon Rising on my BM and here's my final statement...

BM Version is not gamebreaking. The thing about BM is the fact that we are made to do group controls in the heaviest manner. Group stun, slow, immob, and even weapon disable. Even though Dragon Rising has a 15 second cooldown, I probably found myself using it once every 2 minutes if that, which is mroe than I used drake bash.

Basically, as a BM, I was using my chi to do large group controls and making sure the largest group fell. I almost never targeted a single one with anything more than smack or blade hurl due to their range until there were much fewer enemys. I used it on the casters that had purify spell, but the thing is, we had already taken out their support.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think 2 casters should be able to duo a squad of 10 that just wiped their entire team, but it was possible with the right combos and that monstrous purify spell. casters would just run 10 feet making the melee controllers need to run as well, but they'd hit the melee controllers with their hardest skill and auto win. Now they can actually be locked for 6 seconds, if the kill is not had in 6 seconds, the caster lives with antistun and speed buffed, where AD comes into play. The skill is on cooldown.

Also since we probably used the majority of our chi on the large groups, once we use it once, we step back so we can build chi back up to prepare for the next wave of enemies. At best we can use it once or twice in a real mass PvP scenario, and it will be used to counter purify, or occasionally an archer.

In 1v1 it's very OP, especially on a class like BM that can close distance, I agree. Between blade hurl and smack, we were already able to cope, so putting this new skill in a 1v1 scenario is a bit much, but it could be worse. Imagine it on a sin.

I guess what I'm saying is due to BM mechanics, it's really not nearly as OP as one makes it out to be. We use it to take one out after the rest of the support is handled. That's about it, the rest of the time we pressure the main group with slows stuns and seals.

As far as this skill on barb goes, I've encountered it before and the barb had spammed it and it worked 4-5 times in a row, suddenly my support is dead because they had nobody to stun for them and nobody to HF, nobody to slow, nobody to disable. Guess who was next to die?

For BM it's fine due to BM mechanics and chi cost, but for barbs...Either increase its cooldown for the sake of all classes, or lower it's success rate. 50% happens far too often. Slap it on the highest defense class that can even just invoke, get back up, and spam it again...

This coming from a guy who is both BM and barb, my barb has used it and gotten it 3-4 times in a row as well. It's ridiculous, really. Lower chance, or increase cooldown is a must for barbs.

bannedabuse

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

As far as this skill on barb goes, I've encountered it before and the barb had spammed it and it worked 4-5 times in a row, suddenly my support is dead because they had nobody to stun for them and nobody to HF, nobody to slow, nobody to disable. Guess who was next to die?

This is a dumb logic. Just because MS happened to stun someone for 4-5 times straight it's now OP'ed. What about the times when I use it and didn't proc stun for 4-5 times straight? It's not OP'ed time to up the proc chance some more please!

SilverMayhem - Archosaur

bannedabuse wrote: »

Alacrity is 50% to immobilize for 3 secs, 8 sec CD.
Ancestral rage is 100% to immobilize for 8 secs 1 spark 1 min CD.
You can still cast your skills under that effect.

Barbs only have one 100% stun skill and that's our 2 sec aoe stun. Might Swing is 50% (sage) - 60% (Demon) chance to stun. Demon Frighten has a 20% chance to stun.

Battle of attrition is simply not true for Barb vs Casters. With how high attack level can stack and how much DD power they have, it's pretty common for barbs to get one shotted by casters. I know I've been one shotted by Wizzies (spark) and Venos (lucky magic break debuff). I'm sure other caster classes with their DD combos can do the same but sadly I don't have my old toon anymore. My barb's gear was above average (full JOSD +11-12 R999 albit missing a few NW items)

Archers, on the other hard, is barb food.

TY OMG FINALLY +13029840859 Orbs for you!

Finally someone else that knows the % Rates.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote:

Barb didn't have much CC because they didn't need it..

Matter of Personal Opinion on a class that has no Gap Closers other than ones own speed (Stun/Freeze and Seal just so they dont do anything if they get to you). Come again Mr. Ima jump to and From safety at will?

"Btw I mained a barb before i made my sin..." Really, could of fooled me. Should have known that with the LACK OF CC skills that actually proc off. b:chuckle I didn't "conveniently" forget Ancestral rage, my reasoning for not name that is because the ppl that are QQing about this the most (Range Classes). Im only Freezing.

Sir, you are speaking from a narrow 1v1 thinking point of view. While a lot of 1v1s go on. A match up of a Sin vs a Barb is already Moot depending on Skill and Gear. If Demon Barb. Roar and have at it. If sin uses skill, barb would be dead 9/10 do to your CC skills which are all 100% >.> Even more so wielding 2 stuns 1 sleep, 1 seal and 1(2) freezes.

But idk about DreamWeaver but PvP is done in Groups usually on Arch (TW/NW and even out in Silver Pool) so again. I was always gonna kill you or someone atleast 1 time. This just lets me know that I can get out of some "Out ****" moments

Btw; game Play Example *Ancestral rage* *Tele Stun* Heres another *Ancestral Rage + Vac Powder* *Tele Jump + Seal* And we are still talking about Freezing here.

Now if you dont have Deaden on and I 1 shot you with it. You can't even start complaining about the new skill. The way i view it for all you range people. If I get close enough and get out of Kitty form and im able to Hit you with it. Thats your fault. b:chuckle Dont hate the skill because you can't let a kitty get near you

Saethos - Raging Tide

bannedabuse wrote: »

This is a dumb logic. Just because MS happened to stun someone for 4-5 times straight it's now OP'ed. What about the times when I use it and didn't proc stun for 4-5 times straight? It's not OP'ed time to up the proc chance some more please!

In that case, make my River Avalanche paralyze too, 50% chance, same cooldown, no chi cost.

opkossy

bannedabuse wrote: »

This is a dumb logic. Just because MS happened to stun someone for 4-5 times straight it's now OP'ed. What about the times when I use it and didn't proc stun for 4-5 times straight? It's not OP'ed time to up the proc chance some more please!

It's a guaranteed CC. Unless the opponent has anti-stun up, something the primary effect IGNORES, you will either stun or freeze. Period. And that's without considering that it has a larger chance than not to proc said primary effect. Sage Tidal that people call OP and say makes a sage sin immune to CC so often? Demon version of this skill has pretty much the same chance of the stun going off. If you want to claim this is fair balanced in the slightest, or worse yet calling it a LOW chance, you're immediately giving up any chance you have to say anything else with a similar or lower (coughpurifyspellcough) proc rate is unfair or imbalanced in that aspect.

This guaranteed CC also has no chi requirement and, instead, gives chi. In other words, you lose zero resources at any time you feel you should use this skill.

On top of that, this guaranteed CC with no resource requirement is SPAMMABLE. So you use no resources, are going to CC your opponent, and have absolutely no reason to not abuse this skill at any given time.

In comparison, every other CC in the game can miss, fail, costs chi, has an actual cooldown, has a tiny duration, has a large channeling time, comes from an easily killable pet, or more than one of the above.

Oh and they have to deal with the fact that anti-stun/seal will resist them and that they can be purified.



I don't mind the idea behind this at all. But the fact that it has FAR too many pros for... absolutely no drawback whatsoever? Come on, you can't honestly be defending that thinking it's 100% fair.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

SilverMayhem - Archosaur wrote: »

Tidal is only 50% yet people still consider it OP. Your logic fails to apply here.
Matter of Personal Opinion on a class that has no Gap Closers other than ones own speed (Stun/Freeze and Seal just so they dont do anything if they get to you). Come again Mr. Ima jump to and From safety at will?

"Btw I mained a barb before i made my sin..." Really, could of fooled me. Should have known that with the LACK OF CC skills that actually proc off. b:chuckle I didn't "conveniently" forget Ancestral rage, my reasoning for not name that is because the ppl that are QQing about this the most (Range Classes)(Which I am not). Im only Freezing.

Sir, you are speaking from a narrow 1v1 thinking point of view. While a lot of 1v1s go on. A match up of a Sin vs a Barb is already Moot depending on Skill and Gear. If Demon Barb. Roar and have at it. If sin uses skill, barb would be dead 9/10 do to your CC skills which are all 100% >.> Even more so wielding 2 stuns 1 sleep, 1 seal and 1(2) freezes. It's not my fault you die to sins during a stun lock, a DPH sin has to expend many resource to lock someone up, and the barb would have to be undergeared or just stupid to die during that process. So which one are you?

But idk about DreamWeaver but PvP is done in Groups usually on Arch (TW/NW and even out in Silver Pool) so again. I was always gonna kill you or someone atleast 1 time. This just lets me know that I can get out of some "Out ****" moments

Btw; game Play Example *Ancestral rage* *Tele Stun* Heres another *Ancestral Rage + Vac Powder* *Tele Jump + Seal* And we are still talking about Freezing here.

Now if you dont have Deaden on and I 1 shot you with it. You can't even start complaining about the new skill. The way i view it for all you range people. If I get close enough and get out of Kitty form and im able to Hit you with it. Thats your fault. b:chuckle Dont hate the skill because you can't let a kitty get near you You forgot this skill is still blocked by tidal. You also seem to resort to person attacks when you can't win. You also forget sin's are not ranged.

And all have you know that even r9.3+12 barbs have difficulty 1 shotting me even without deaden. Nice try at attacking me though, really. But until you say something objective, rather than result to petty person attacks that refer to my skill or gear, I'll just consider you a moron.

bannedabuse wrote: »

Alacrity is 50% to immobilize for 3 secs, 8 sec CD.
Ancestral rage is 100% to immobilize for 8 secs 1 spark 1 min CD.
You can still cast your skills under that effect.

Barbs only have one 100% stun skill and that's our 2 sec aoe stun. Might Swing is 50% (sage) - 60% (Demon) chance to stun. Demon Frighten has a 20% chance to stun.

Battle of attrition is simply not true for Barb vs Casters. With how high attack level can stack and how much DD power they have, it's pretty common for barbs to get one shotted by casters. I know I've been one shotted by Wizzies (spark) and Venos (lucky magic break debuff). I'm sure other caster classes with their DD combos can do the same but sadly I don't have my old toon anymore. My barb's gear was above average (full JOSD +11-12 R999 albit missing a few NW items)

Archers, on the other hard, is barb food.

If a r9rr+12 JoSD (non pure str build) barb is getting 1 shot by casters, he is doing somthing wrong, period. Hell even r9rr+12 aps build barbs (which i have tested) dont get 1 shot by pure mag casters unless they got ample debuffs first, at that piont, it's the barbs fault still.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

so last NW there were a couple of barbs that tried to chain stun me with that new skill. (literally half the barbs i met -,- which is annoying cause their all starting to find out lol)

i think they got no more than like 2-3 in before i was able to teleport out of their range every time. (im seeker) I think a majority of the classes out there that have port skills should be able to get out of this as long as they spam port (of course not all classes will have that advantage or else it wont be fair for barbs) it was a bit annoying but way less an issue than annoying archers o.o

Azura - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

so last NW there were a couple of barbs that tried to chain stun me with that new skill. (literally half the barbs i met -,- which is annoying cause their all starting to find out lol)

i think they got no more than like 2-3 in before i was able to teleport out of their range every time. (im seeker) I think a majority of the classes out there that have port skills should be able to get out of this as long as they spam port (of course not all classes will have that advantage or else it wont be fair for barbs) it was a bit annoying but way less an issue than annoying archers o.o

Only sins and and seekers have some kind of teleport skill... 2 out of 10 classes is clearly not the majority.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Only sins and and seekers have some kind of teleport skill... 2 out of 10 classes is clearly not the majority.

teleport as in any skill that jumps u away, BM/archer/wiz/ have something like that too
thats already half the classes. And like i said not every class will have combat against it or it would make that skill useless for barbs. Just like how every class doesnt have the same defense traits.