Preferences when building a squad or joining one

lythraos

I follow a simple rule:
If it can't be duoed with my GF then it's not worth my time.
(APS barb and sage sin, for BHs each of us with an alt on follow.)

/Not doing Aba BH since the update.

*inb4 APS barb hating* R9RR too, happy now? >.>

Kittysama - Raging Tide_1432680721

Kitty's not going to squads where the WC'r used very bad engrish or "LFM *class* only BHXX pm me plsssssss" Also if 2 of 6 peeps in squad are total fails and Kitty knows that when joining squad, Kitty leaves the squad in an instant. Bad peeps just forces Kitty to work 2x harder to cover their failness and it's not fun. And Kitty's playing this game for fun.
Kitty also tends to blacklist anyone who's WCing "need *class*" if that class is not really necessary to get instance done. Kitty likes to join squads with exotic class combinations as noobs are usually too afraid to try unlike those who know their class and know they get the instance done easily with good squadplay.
-"done FC without barb, cleric, BM, seeker or sin"

And why Kitty's so arrogant/bytch, especially in FC-related stuff? 'Cause Kitty's seen how good squads roll and too often squads don't roll at all compared to them. Using musician terms: A good squad is like a fine-tuned orchestra playing in time following conductor, bad squads are like worst-class punk band consisting of players touching their instrument first time and playing in totally different tempos, times and time signatures, everyone out of tune compared to each other.

Loshon - Archosaur

I don't join nor make random squads. I am not good enough to join random squads. My gear isn't outstanding, but it's not undergeared either.

tweakz

AsMyliuTave - Sanctuary wrote: »

Anybody who links their weapon, no matter what their class or how good the weapon is - rejected.

Simply because there are a lot of worthless sins out there; I'll consider a second one that appears godly. I'm also often the victim of those vit/pve/L90 and below clerics who think they heal in BB as good as any other cleric, while my hp pots pay for their rare mounts and fashion.

Anybody who asks me to link my weapon - I won't do it.

I usually have no problem with this, but today ran into a 4 sin squad with my Mystic. NONE of them could tank (I could). The problem wasn't the weapon link though: the leader didn't have a single mirage on him (BH metal), told others to come in when he wasn't even in (was 5th to enter), failed on choosing the right quest, failed on re-inviting me 2x because he hadn't reset the instance yet.

Weapon checks as already pointed out verify that the person on the other end can read and respond appropriately. They rule out mooch bags that don't bother to account stash their good equips, or bother to equip their alts responsibly.

I have joined squads on my wiz only to see a cleric with 7.xk MP / pve or sub 90 weapon and quit. I feel it's better to weed them out than my 10k hp wiz with over 12k pdef that has to pot because they can't play responsibly.

I generally won't take sins.

Today was BH metal on HT. After joining a squad, waiting 15min on my barb to watch the leader (psy) spamming skills that made the mobs kite: I left squad. One idiot had the nerve to accuse me of not helping when I just stood there watching. Another asked me what I felt was the cause of the failure (most of the squad were dying): I said "fail leader". -Assassins don't do that ****.

I understand the hatred of assassins but moreso I hate how the ones that die on Snakefist are catered to!

I also see things from the perspective of an Assassin. We erupt; some idiot jerk (sometimes another assassin but usually archer) pulls the mob 15m backwards (thanks for that counter to our progress). 10k+ HP assassin with +12 weapon is tanking and stupid healer thinks IH is better than Dimensional Seal. Stupid barb thinks Flesh Ream is worth using but ignores Devour and Frighten.

There was once a time in Lunar where I was tanking as an Assassin and struggling but saw the Barb getting healed. I HP'd away and said: can you see who's tanking now (as boss followed). Cleric said: "I don't care who's tanking" - I left.

There are just too many fail ones who don't know how to control their aggro. Exceptions are faction mates and people I actually know are good.

I'm in the faction I'm in because nothing is expected of me. Faction runs are the worst runs I've been on in any faction. I use world chat to build squads. Occasionally I'll run with faction if I know how the faction member performs.

I very rarely take barbs, though that isn't necessarily by choice. I can just never find one! Good thing everything is tank-able by other classes now, or we'd never get **** done.

b:victory I hate seeing "lf: barb". -As a barb I kinda know it's gonna be some fail squad where no one in the squad would survive an aoe w/o the HP buff.

I ALWAYS take a cleric.

I play a mystic. The only thing I need from cleric most of the time is their buffs (so I have a cleric on both accounts). -I also have barb on both accounts. If people can't survive with these 2 buffs and Mystic heals; I don't want them.

I don't have time for those mystics who think they make good healers.

Mystics are capable of being better healers (no thinking at all). -Try the math and show me wrong (you can't).

Being able to heal doesn't necessarily make you good at it.

9/10 clerics anymore are chroma-spammers and suck at healing. Another percentage are vit build. Another percentage are PvE/ or crappy weapon equipped. You could argue against Psys and Wiz's but Mystics are stronger healers. Regeneration Aura is an exception only because it provides defense, but Aegis Sphere does as well (and is mobile) and many of Mystic heals / protects aren't nullified by stuns. Here's a proof: Many mystics can heal on Pole Arm, and Decaying Fragrance; name one cleric who can w/o purify.

I ALWAYS take a BM. Personal preference, but AoE stuns, Bell and HF are just too handy to pass up.

AoE stun is typically a waste of time as it provides no dmg and takes chi. - Speaking from a sage wiz pov. Bell matters far less than the cleric's build/ weapon. -Speaking from a sage wiz pov. HF matters very little coming from a sage wiz's pov. I have had very successful wave 3 runs as a wiz with no melee class whatsoever. I abhor the derpa melee bm/ sin squads where the idiots chase ranged mobs around when a ranged dd can 2-3 hit kill them.

BMs and their derpa melee are worth less than half a mage on BH SoT or Puppet boss in Aba. I have a BM and am roflmao dissapointed with it's dd. I'm very happy with how I can pull in Lunar, and other instances but feel BM is way over rated and generally has little impact on the success or timeliness of a run. To many idiots see the big numbers and drool. -Compare Demon Subsea's duration to Demon HF.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

Simply because there are a lot of worthless sins out there; I'll consider a second one that appears godly. I'm also often the victim of those vit/pve/L90 and below clerics who think they heal in BB as good as any other cleric, while my hp pots pay for their rare mounts and fashion.

Tell me about it; a fac mate of mine (33K HP catabarb) was trying to get heals from a tt99 +3 cleric. I was a G15/G16/TT90 archer and my HP was barely moving in his BB lol. Considering BB heals a 20% of cleric's base mag atk...that sucks


I usually have no problem with this, but today ran into a 4 sin squad with my Mystic. NONE of them could tank (I could). The problem wasn't the weapon link though: the leader didn't have a single mirage on him (BH metal), told others to come in when he wasn't even in (was 5th to enter), failed on choosing the right quest, failed on re-inviting me 2x because he hadn't reset the instance yet.

The ultra fail squad once in a blue moon

I also see things from the perspective of an Assassin. We erupt; some idiot jerk (sometimes another assassin but usually archer) pulls the mob 15m backwards (thanks for that counter to our progress). 10k+ HP assassin with +12 weapon is tanking and stupid healer thinks IH is better than Dimensional Seal. Stupid barb thinks Flesh Ream is worth using but ignores Devour and Frighten.

<Tries to use sharptooth to pull the boss to begin with, and then erupt with the sins, let them take aggro, leap and start to DD. Also lets me catch the HF that's timed for the sins

There was once a time in Lunar where I was tanking as an Assassin and struggling but saw the Barb getting healed. I HP'd away and said: can you see who's tanking now (as boss followed). Cleric said: "I don't care who's tanking" - I left.

The indomitable "I'm a barb so I must be the tank" attitude

9/10 clerics anymore are chroma-spammers and suck at healing. Another percentage are vit build. Another percentage are PvE/ or crappy weapon equipped. You could argue against Psys and Wiz's but Mystics are stronger healers. Regeneration Aura is an exception only because it provides defense, but Aegis Sphere does as well (and is mobile) and many of Mystic heals / protects aren't nullified by stuns. Here's a proof: Many mystics can heal on Pole Arm, and Decaying Fragrance; name one cleric who can w/o purify.

What is purify? All the clerics forgot that skill after getting over BH69 lol. I have run enough warsong to have p. much full set G16 and have seen people purified out of a water pav bubble (mob) exactly maybe twice. Sage psys do it more. My badge of courage gets me out of bubble more

BMs and their derpa melee are worth less than half a mage on BH SoT or Puppet boss in Aba. I have a BM and am roflmao dissapointed with it's dd. I'm very happy with how I can pull in Lunar, and other instances but feel BM is way over rated and generally has little impact on the success or timeliness of a run. To many idiots see the big numbers and drool. -Compare Demon Subsea's duration to Demon HF.

Not true; abba boss is still doable via 15 sec HF-subsea-aps. Even without APS it's easy. Had 4 barbs, 2 of them r9 str, 1 G16, 3 of them demon, a bunch of casters and 1 sin and a BM. Puppeteer went down after first jail, leaf went down a few seconds after HF ended

Subsea, esp, demon, is stackable with HF. Why not both?

Alone HF is better where there are more APSers since they get more out of the HF in the short amount of time. With slower casters a longer debuff becomes better because it takes a lot longer to get hits in. But still, demon subsea stacked with HF/amp/devour/mire/myriad armor break is a sexy beast----til some idiot uses extreme poison

Replies and commentary in red

Praxalis - Archosaur

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Every time, discounting the times I go with either of the 2 mystic friends of mine who can handle healing, I ask mystic can they heal instance or do I need to get a cleric. So far none has volunteered to solo heal instances <.<.

Tehee then you clearly haven't asked me when Im not afk

But if all goes to hell I can at least switch to cleric being that its on the same account :P

I tend to just go and try my hand and if I don't recognize the faction or see alot of them around ther server I get kind of leery unless I know its my friends herpa derping on their own solo faction for a while. I guess Im not too picky unless they start failing REALLY bad.b:shocked

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Never make my own squads and if they ask me to link my weapon, I don`t and tell them to sod off, they don`t know what they are missing not inviting me. b:shutup

tweakz

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Never make my own squads and if they ask me to link my weapon, I don`t and tell them to sod off, they don`t know what they are missing not inviting me. b:shutup

I know what I'd be missing: Someone with a very ignorant attitude that likes drama. Haven't been doing weapon checks, but might start after seeing this.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

tweakz wrote: »

I know what I'd be missing: Someone with a very ignorant attitude that likes drama. Haven't been doing weapon checks, but might start after seeing this.

You fail as usual b:bye

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

Finding a good mystic or cleric is hard to find. Most are plvl idiots. I swear. I know a few good mystics (Praxalis, LimeDew, Nonaiam) etc

My cleric (an alt) was not power leveled she was leveled up the right way and i play her damn well when im not lagging like crazy. Ive pulled off some awesome moves when it came to saving people lol ijs. b:chuckle

I go with guild squads or friends in squad ive never shown my weapon i don't think. I've been around 3 yrs now and people know my veno/cleric so they know i can do my job.

tweakz

Untamed_pain - Archosaur wrote: »

Finding a good mystic or cleric is hard to find. Most are plvl idiots. I swear. I know a few good mystics (Praxalis, LimeDew, Nonaiam) etc

My cleric is p-leveled. I observe clerics I've known for 4+ years now and can see how bad they are now. They are the chroma-spammers, the healers of sins, the ones that don't use seals, the ones that can't coordinate with another cleric in squad.

My cleric (an alt) was not power leveled she was leveled up the right way and i play her damn well when im not lagging like crazy. Ive pulled off some awesome moves when it came to saving people lol ijs. b:chuckle

Chroma-spammers think they're great also. Genuine criticism of clerics in this game is rare because they're overly protected and wanted. Clerics aren't likely to hear how it really is from other players. There isn't even enough criticism of Assassins, Archers, and Sealing in Warsong Psys to give you a clue.

I go with guild squads or friends in squad ive never shown my weapon i don't think. I've been around 3 yrs now and people know my veno/cleric so they know i can do my job.

I would much rather be with someone who could learn the class in a day and play better than most; than someone who thinks an ungodly amount of grind is going to make them better for it. Non p-levelers don't tend to spend as much time on a single toon. They see things from an outsider perspective. They're more open to learning. One good example is all those idiot clerics that want to move Regeneration Aura after each group in Warsong Metal. -Never ran with someone else as cleric! -Too busy being proud of doing mundane tasks over and over again and never observing how much better it could be done.

People ragging on power levelers just come across as extremely slow in the head. Non p-leveled clerics often have brains hardwired to not adapt to how the game is ideally played now. They could be dd'ing, and when called on it; they apologize for having played that way for so long!

My mystic is p-leveled and sometimes described as epic despite no rank gear.

It has NOTHING to do with p-leveling: it's all about laziness! Watch and see how many people pick up drops when there's 300k worth on ground to see how freaking lazy people are.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

healers of sins

that sounds like a monastic order b:chuckle

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

tweakz wrote: »

...I would much rather be with someone who could learn the class in a day and play better than most.
...
People ragging on power levelers just come across as extremely slow in the head. Non p-leveled clerics often have brains hardwired to not adapt to how the game is ideally played now.
...
It has NOTHING to do with p-leveling: it's all about laziness! Watch and see how many people pick up drops when there's 300k worth on ground to see how freaking lazy people are.

Fist line, absolutely agree. but that doesn't specifically apply to people that power level.

Second line, have to disagree with that somewhat. Yes, it's more common for the older players to be stuck in a habit and not defer from it, than for the newer players. The newer power-leveled players are more likely to be inefficient though.

Final line, it's not about who picks up drops, it's entirely about laziness and the inability/desire to learn how to play the class properly. This doesn't just apply to clerics, it applies to everyone.

Here's the reason that most power-leveled players suck, and why they are more likely to suck than seasoned players.
1. Lack of skills. Catching up on all that spirit and coin to level the skills is a b--ch.
2. Lack of skill knowledge. They haven't had enough experience in when to use what effectively.
3. Lack of proper gear. Not everyone CS'es their gear. It costs quite a bit to get the high-level gear to a point where it's appropriate for the high-level instances now.
4. Pure laziness. Most people power level their character because they want the high level NOW. They want in the elite instances NOW. They never bother to realize that they need to know how to play their toon, or how to function in a squad once they get there.

Reasons why the old-timers suck.
1. Outdated gear. TT99 gold used to be super awesome. Now it's hardly worth the mats to make it. They just keep going along with what they've always had because it's worked, and if they aren't on a PvP server, it's likely still working ok for them. they are also less likely to CS for gear, because they got tired of CS a long time ago.
2. The inability to adapt to changes in the game. Whether it's because they're lazy and don't want to, are too stubborn to change their habits, or are just clueless. Not being familiar with how the updates and changes and classes have modified the squad environment can cause some serious issues. usually they're just OK-enough to get by and no one bothers to call them out on it.
3. Again with the laziness. We'll always have these people. The older ones tend to get weeded out though because eventually no one wants to invite them to a squad.

Older players like myself are rare. I've played most of the classes to a relatively high level, have a deep understanding of the game, and I always play to be the absolute best at that class that I can. If it's changing my playstyle, mechanics, or revising my gear, I adapt to win. You won't find many new players like this simpler because of the previously mentioned laziness.
Then you have the elite players. Most of them are big on PvP. (I used to be.) They either spend a lot of money to make sure they have super gear, or spend a fair about of time merchanting/farming for it. They are well aware of game mechanics, how the classes work together, and have similar goals for being as effective as possible at whatever class they play.

When I build a squad, I usually stick with people I know or am familiar with. Simply because I know how they are going to respond to various issues in whatever run we are doing.

As far as playing my cleric in particular. I hate being stuck in BB. CHB only gets used if it's absolutely necessary, and will usually be following a Zooming Thunder powder. I'd much rather spot heal and seal on the bosses, and help DD and seal the IL's and ID's in the groups. Things die faster when I'm able to let loose a little. I'll heal whoever needs it, as long as they aren't being a complete moron, and it's rare that anyone dies because I wasn't able to pull my weight in the squad.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. Lack of skills. Catching up on all that spirit and coin to level the skills is a b--ch.

unless you assume lots of deaths by grinding I don't see how spirit would be an issue

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Fist line, absolutely agree. but that doesn't specifically apply to people that power level.

Second line, have to disagree with that somewhat. Yes, it's more common for the older players to be stuck in a habit and not defer from it, than for the newer players. The newer power-leveled players are more likely to be inefficient though.

Final line, it's not about who picks up drops, it's entirely about laziness and the inability/desire to learn how to play the class properly. This doesn't just apply to clerics, it applies to everyone.

Here's the reason that most power-leveled players suck, and why they are more likely to suck than seasoned players.
1. Lack of skills. Catching up on all that spirit and coin to level the skills is a b--ch.
2. Lack of skill knowledge. They haven't had enough experience in when to use what effectively.
3. Lack of proper gear. Not everyone CS'es their gear. It costs quite a bit to get the high-level gear to a point where it's appropriate for the high-level instances now.
4. Pure laziness. Most people power level their character because they want the high level NOW. They want in the elite instances NOW. They never bother to realize that they need to know how to play their toon, or how to function in a squad once they get there.

Reasons why the old-timers suck.
1. Outdated gear. TT99 gold used to be super awesome. Now it's hardly worth the mats to make it. They just keep going along with what they've always had because it's worked, and if they aren't on a PvP server, it's likely still working ok for them. they are also less likely to CS for gear, because they got tired of CS a long time ago.
2. The inability to adapt to changes in the game. Whether it's because they're lazy and don't want to, are too stubborn to change their habits, or are just clueless. Not being familiar with how the updates and changes and classes have modified the squad environment can cause some serious issues. usually they're just OK-enough to get by and no one bothers to call them out on it.
3. Again with the laziness. We'll always have these people. The older ones tend to get weeded out though because eventually no one wants to invite them to a squad.

Older players like myself are rare. I've played most of the classes to a relatively high level, have a deep understanding of the game, and I always play to be the absolute best at that class that I can. If it's changing my playstyle, mechanics, or revising my gear, I adapt to win. You won't find many new players like this simpler because of the previously mentioned laziness.
Then you have the elite players. Most of them are big on PvP. (I used to be.) They either spend a lot of money to make sure they have super gear, or spend a fair about of time merchanting/farming for it. They are well aware of game mechanics, how the classes work together, and have similar goals for being as effective as possible at whatever class they play.

When I build a squad, I usually stick with people I know or am familiar with. Simply because I know how they are going to respond to various issues in whatever run we are doing.

As far as playing my cleric in particular. I hate being stuck in BB. CHB only gets used if it's absolutely necessary, and will usually be following a Zooming Thunder powder. I'd much rather spot heal and seal on the bosses, and help DD and seal the IL's and ID's in the groups. Things die faster when I'm able to let loose a little. I'll heal whoever needs it, as long as they aren't being a complete moron, and it's rare that anyone dies because I wasn't able to pull my weight in the squad.

I agree with this 100%. I power leveled my sin as a farming toon but he quickly became my main when I started thinking about TWing. I get a lot of compliments on how I am able to do instances without a charm or cleric in a lot of cases. People get stuck on thinking Sage Sins fall behind on soloing ability compared to their Demon counterparts; I beg to differ. I myself haven't played all classes to a relatively high level, but I do a lot of research, -removed- playing different classes past 100. -removed- I played Barb for 3 years, I know a lot about aggro compared to other sins, I also keep myself from getting aggro if I can't handle it and we have a decent barb. Sins are squishy, tell me something I don't know. I get one shot sometimes in WS or other high level instances, can't help it sometimes, but I do try to learn from that.

There's a;so this elitism that I have noticed from older players. They want to tell people what they should already know, but never teach those same players. This is especially in the case of barbs I have noticed. But meh QQers, will QQ. As far as rainbow squads go, I don't mind taking more than one decent sin along, as long as they aren't dying all over the place. I prefer a barb (unless I know someone who can tank), and a cleric for certain instances. Rest is w/e I think will do depending on who is in squad. Did a Full RB Delta w/ 4 archers and a cleric before.

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

Well, i was jsing. Laziness or whatever you wanna call it. It sucks when they don't do there jobs.

I love to learn about the toons and yes i have one of each toon >.> i had to try them all out. b:chuckle

I also dislike undergeared Barbs who think they can tank anything and die so easy!! and 1 shotable clerics from AOE's etc. Sometime it can't be helped but meh.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. Outdated gear. TT99 gold used to be super awesome. Now it's hardly worth the mats to make it. They just keep going along with what they've always had because it's worked, and if they aren't on a PvP server, it's likely still working ok for them. they are also less likely to CS for gear, because they got tired of CS a long time ago.

This is an interesting take on the old-timers angle, but one should never assume that "outdated" gear implies lack of skill. Roll on HT and run with me sometime. :P My barb rolls in TT99 gear, 20k HP buffed (classic sage/vit build), acheives respectable scores and flag-running ratio in NW and can tank any endgame BH comfortably, with the current exception of Lunar (but I'm not sure how Lunar was supposed to work seeing as TT99 was the gold standard when Lunar came out). My archer isn't much different, he runs in full Lunar Nirv s2 +5 now, but I still carry around my TT90 gold set and will swap to it on the fly if anyone questions my ability to do something as easy as an endgame BH. >_> My BM still runs in 90 gold while I'm working on her Morai armor. :P

I don't stay in old gear out of stubbornness (well, not just out of stubbornness :P). I do it to make a statement. Specifically, that all of my characters survive and perform their roles effectively in almost any case with that gear. So unless you see someone running around with TT80 gear (in which case you have bigger problems), gear really isn't a factor.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is an interesting take on the old-timers angle, but one should never assume that "outdated" gear implies lack of skill. Roll on HT and run with me sometime. :P My barb rolls in TT99 gear, 20k HP buffed (classic sage/vit build), acheives respectable scores and flag-running ratio in NW and can tank any endgame BH comfortably, with the current exception of Lunar (but I'm not sure how Lunar was supposed to work seeing as TT99 was the gold standard when Lunar came out). My archer isn't much different, he runs in full Lunar Nirv s2 +5 now, but I still carry around my TT90 gold set and will swap to it on the fly if anyone questions my ability to do something as easy as an endgame BH. >_> My BM still runs in 90 gold while I'm working on her Morai armor. :P

I don't stay in old gear out of stubbornness (well, not just out of stubbornness :P). I do it to make a statement. Specifically, that all of my characters survive and perform their roles effectively in almost any case with that gear. So unless you see someone running around with TT80 gear (in which case you have bigger problems), gear really isn't a factor.

I don't think that anyone would consider tt99, let alone g15 nirvy, outdated/undergeared. heck, even a decently refined/sharded set of tt90/oht (with a good weapon) is pretty OK. problem is when people show up with unrefined/unsharded g12 morai/npc stuff... combo that with with -chan ornies and you have the legendary 2.9k cleric.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't think that anyone would consider tt99, let alone g15 nirvy, outdated/undergeared. heck, even a decently refined/sharded set of tt90/oht (with a good weapon) is pretty OK. problem is when people show up with unrefined/unsharded g12 morai/npc stuff... combo that with with -chan ornies and you have the legendary 2.9k cleric.

The irony in this is, that'd be a 3.9k cleric if she had a Vit build. But everyone told her to go pure magic, soooo... :P

EDIT: And yes, I'm aware that a 95 Morai weapon is not adequate for healing (especially on a Vit build). g12 Morai is good enough for DD, but you'd at least need a TT90 green weapon on a cleric. The above comment was specifically talking about HP without regard for overall playability in endgame BHs.

tweakz

Barbs have always been able to get by poorly geared. Cleric on the other hand loses heal strength when they stat vit, or use subpar weapon. W/o vit, or decent equips; they're very squishy. Most of the issues I have with poorly geared / built players is clerics. I tolerate them on some of my toons / circumstances, but I've been know to kick before starting an RB on wiz because I don't feel like wasting HP pots because they got a rare mount and fashion instead of catching their gear and build up.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

tweakz wrote: »

Barbs have always been able to get by poorly geared. Cleric on the other hand loses heal strength when they stat vit, or use subpar weapon. W/o vit, or decent equips; they're very squishy. Most of the issues I have with poorly geared / built players is clerics. I tolerate them on some of my toons / circumstances, but I've been know to kick before starting an RB on wiz because I don't feel like wasting HP pots because they got a rare mount and fashion instead of catching their gear and build up.

...look, I realize "The Tale of the Undergeared Cleric" is your personal favorite horror story, but it's really not as big a deal as you claim. It's not obvious to a newly-100 person (whether they're powerleveled or not) that the 95 Morai weapon isn't suitable for endgame BH healing. So at the very least you have to correct them patiently rather than hovering over the kick button.

And as I mentioned a couple of pages ago... if all else fails, toss 'em a Midnight Black. They're cheap as hell and you could just carry one around to throw at them and say "here, for the sake of everyone just use an appropriate weapon." Then ask them to return it to you after the run and buy a tt90 wep ASAP. Worst case scenario, you get some idiot who thinks the MB is worth something and steals it, and you're out 50k for a new mold.

It'd be a much better and nicer solution than just kicking out a cleric on the basis of gear. Just saying. :P

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

Barbs have always been able to get by poorly geared. Cleric on the other hand loses heal strength when they stat vit and use subpar weapon. W/o vit, or decent equips; they're very squishy. Most of the issues I have with poorly geared / built players is clerics. I tolerate them on some of my toons / circumstances, but I've been know to kick before starting an RB on wiz because I don't feel like wasting HP pots because they got a rare mount and fashion instead of catching their gear and build up.

fixed

Jadsia - Lost City

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...look, I realize "The Tale of the Undergeared Cleric" is your personal favorite horror story, but it's really not as big a deal as you claim. It's not obvious to a newly-100 person (whether they're powerleveled or not) that the 95 Morai weapon isn't suitable for endgame BH healing. So at the very least you have to correct them patiently rather than hovering over the kick button.

And as I mentioned a couple of pages ago... if all else fails, toss 'em a Midnight Black. They're cheap as hell and you could just carry one around to throw at them and say "here, for the sake of everyone just use an appropriate weapon." Then ask them to return it to you after the run and buy a tt90 wep ASAP. Worst case scenario, you get some idiot who thinks the MB is worth something and steals it, and you're out 50k for a new mold.

It'd be a much better and nicer solution than just kicking out a cleric on the basis of gear. Just saying. :P

Whose responsibility is it to level up and work for decent gear? The cleric itself or everyone in the cleric's squad? It's the player's own obligation to make sure their toon is leveled, geared, and statted properly if they wish to join squads for instances. If they fail that is a result of their own poor choices and perhaps laziness.

Desdi - Sanctuary

The problem with some players is that, as long as they can run through instances with the bare minimum required gear they won't bother to upgrade it since "it works" and would much rather use the coin to level other alts they can't even afford to gear up or buy rare items such as fashion, mounts and whatever else and quite frankly, even just from BHs you can get some decent coin over time so the coin must go somewhere.

The game can't stay on the same level of gear or challenge forever though. The game will evolve, will have new gear, new instances, new challenges, revamped instances etc. Maybe the choice of gear pieces and instances that PW has updated/introduced are not very smart but some changes are better than no changes. I can't imagine myself staying in a game that stays the same...

The kind of players I mentioned above is the kind that only drags down the rest of the players that work on improving their gear, even little by little. I don't think there is a need to "prove" that things can be done in what people may call "outdated" gear now and it's certainly not a reason not to improve.

Additionally, it's just annoying when you have those people complaining over things being too hard now when they are at fault for not trying to gear up.

Don't throw me the "some people just can't afford it". I've seen poor people work their way from tt90 green to G15 Nirvana which is not something I would call outdated. They had some help from faction and friends, did some runs, patiently saved up coin etc. and managed to gear up.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Jadsia - Lost City wrote: »

Whose responsibility is it to level up and work for decent gear? The cleric itself or everyone in the cleric's squad? It's the player's own obligation to make sure their toon is leveled, geared, and statted properly if they wish to join squads for instances. If they fail that is a result of their own poor choices and perhaps laziness.

Two problems with that:
1. Being a newbie is rite of passage, while being an idiot is a choice. If I see a Lv100 cleric with g12 morai, I'm not going to assume they're being willfully ignorant of the limits of their weapon. I'm going to assume that no one bothered to tell them the issue with that weapon, and I'm going to point them in the right direction in a patient manner. I will assume a newbie is an idiot only after they conclusively prove themselves worthy of the title. :P
2. Avoid using the word "proper" in this context, as it's extremely loaded. Different people have different definitions of the word, and I know a number of people who'd have your virtual head (myself included) for suggesting that a vit or vit-hybrid build doesn't fall under the umbrella of what's "proper."

EDIT:

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

The game can't stay on the same level of gear or challenge forever though. The game will evolve, will have new gear, new instances, new challenges, revamped instances etc. Maybe the choice of gear pieces and instances that PW has updated/introduced are not very smart but some changes are better than no changes. I can't imagine myself staying in a game that stays the same...

The kind of players I mentioned above is the kind that only drags down the rest of the players that work on improving their gear, even little by little. I don't think there is a need to "prove" that things can be done in what people may call "outdated" gear now and it's certainly not a reason not to improve.

This is dangerous ground to tread here. You can't "evolve" a game in that kind of way without removing the old content, and by that time it isn't Perfect World anymore. It's some other game entirely. There are innumerable ways that PWI could have improved and evolved without becoming as broken as it is today. If you want to play a game with crazy gear and crazy instances to match them, -removed-

The problem here is your fundamental assumptions, particularly in what you consider "improvement." If I upgraded my tt99 barb to nirv s3, you could call it improvement, but I'd call it overkill. Maybe Lunar and full WS would still give him a challenge, but aside from that, every other BH would be a walk in the park and it would bore the hell out of me. How exactly am I "dragging you down" by sticking with tt99 gear? Run a BH with my barb and it'll be among the smoothest you've ever done.

Nenor - Dreamweaver

Pure mag verses mag/vit cleric brings back a discussion I had with someone on my server a couple yrs ago. I was pretty gung-ho that a cleric should be magic build.. then they said one thing that made me stop, pause and rethink.

A dead cleric can't heal anyone.

Granted, you maybe don't want a cleric with 250 magic and the rest vit at 100 +.. but a small bit of those magic points stated over into vit isn't going to make a difference except in that clerics own personal survival.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Nenor - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Pure mag verses mag/vit cleric brings back a discussion I had with someone on my server a couple yrs ago. I was pretty gung-ho that a cleric should be magic build.. then they said one thing that made me stop, pause and rethink.

A dead cleric can't heal anyone.

Granted, you maybe don't want a cleric with 250 magic and the rest vit at 100 +.. but a small bit of those magic points stated over into vit isn't going to make a difference except in that clerics own personal survival.

And every pure-magic proponent on these boards is gonna tell you the same thing regarding that old truism: that a high-refined cleric will make up for any deficiencies caused by not having vit in their build. And while this is technically true, it ignores the fact that not everyone has access to +10 refines, should not be expected to have such access, or would choose to use it even if they did.

That being said, you do need to have enough magic (or dex/str as the case may be) to equip a level-appropriate weapon. If you've got 300 in your attack stat, you can equip any endgame weapon (except r9 stuff, IIRC). Then just make sure you have enough str for your armor, and whatever you do with the other points is your business.

Nenor - Dreamweaver

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And every pure-magic proponent on these boards is gonna tell you the same thing regarding that old truism: that a high-refined cleric will make up for any deficiencies caused by not having vit in their build. And while this is technically true, it ignores the fact that not everyone has access to +10 refines, should not be expected to have such access, or would choose to use it even if they did.

That being said, you do need to have enough magic (or dex/str as the case may be) to equip a level-appropriate weapon. If you've got 300 in your attack stat, you can equip any endgame weapon (except r9 stuff, IIRC). Then just make sure you have enough str for your armor, and whatever you do with the other points is your business.

And, they forget that once that cleric gets end gears and gets those +10 refines.. they can always grab a reset scroll and put those extra points back into magic.

Idk about others, but im sure as **** not going to waste coins +10ing my full set of TT99, and then G13 AND then G15, when i can save that coin for +10ing my G16. Especially since im trying to gear up 6 level 100 toons.

Eoria - Harshlands

I've had at least 100 vit statted since even before the r8 sales. No one has ever told me that my heals are too weak. Dunno what some of you people are smoking.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is dangerous ground to tread here. You can't "evolve" a game in that kind of way without removing the old content, and by that time it isn't Perfect World anymore. It's some other game entirely. There are innumerable ways that PWI could have improved and evolved without becoming as broken as it is today. If you want to play a game with crazy gear and crazy instances to match them, I'm sure you can find a private server that meets your needs.

The problem here is your fundamental assumptions, particularly in what you consider "improvement." If I upgraded my tt99 barb to nirv s3, you could call it improvement, but I'd call it overkill. Maybe Lunar and full WS would still give him a challenge, but aside from that, every other BH would be a walk in the park and it would bore the hell out of me. How exactly am I "dragging you down" by sticking with tt99 gear? Run a BH with my barb and it'll be among the smoothest you've ever done.

This is why I said "maybe the choice of gear pieces and instances that PW has updated/introduced are not very smart".

My post was also not directed at you unless you associated the part where I was talking about "proving" with what you wrote earlier but that's not what I had in mind.

I was full G16 Nirvana not too long ago and I still found a lot of things challenging, including the BHs unless I happened to be in a squad filled with R999 people so I don't see how it would be a cakewalk unless we're specifically talking about lower BHs. Either way, that's really personal views and whatnot that I won't go into.

I suppose if all that someone cares about doing is BH and doesn't want to participate in new activities that may or may not require better gear, they don't need to improve but alas we recently had SoT/Abaddon revamped.

I'm not looking to turn things into cakewalk and I'm not a R999+12 JOSD person either I have R999 +7 and still find plenty of things challenging to me or perhaps I just try out new things and find new ways of doing things and new challenges, I don't know. Never have I felt like I'm causing an overkill unless I was running in some low level instance. Again, unless i'm in a squad with lots of R999 but that's not always the case.

Dragging me down? When you have that healer not being able to heal inadequately and the tank has to spam pots/genie at a boss that isn't -that- hard to do or that DD keeps dying and slows down the squad then yes that is dragging down. Mind you, I know there is a difference between skill and gear but skill can only really get you so far and trust me I've been in this game long enough, I had average gear once and my skills could only help me survive so much.

Let's just agree to disagree I guess.