+2 Attack Level Shard Discussion

Sirkura - Raging Tide

another thing is attack lvls gain more effectiveness over all the more you gain. the more damage% u gain the more damage bonus you will receive. likewise def lvls r the reverse, the more you gain the less effective they become over all. part of why they made +2 def gems and only +1attack. so 24 attack shards actually ads closer to 27% to your attack then 24.

Alexis - Lothranis

Less than r9 geared players were already oneshots to r9. Rich ppl already have the most pleasure playing the game. Good morning sunshines.

TehMage - Lost City

I don't see why so many people are complaining about this.

Diamonds of Dragon were once cheap, then everyone noticed that defense levels helped
you become more "tank" if you want to put it that way. Prices rise from 10m all the way to 70-80m (current prices on LostCity).

Example B: Dots arent really favored now. price isnt too high. Now with a new option, guess
what...prices will rise.

Moral of the story? Not everyone will have them. Why? Because you still need to open packs
to get them and the prices will rise because of demand. b:bye

Jhalil - Heavens Tear

Sirkura - Raging Tide wrote: »

another thing is attack lvls gain more effectiveness over all the more you gain. the more damage% u gain the more damage bonus you will receive. likewise def lvls r the reverse, the more you gain the less effective they become over all. part of why they made +2 def gems and only +1attack. so 24 attack shards actually ads closer to 27% to your attack then 24.

What the hell have you been smoking? It's the same for DoTs as it is for Jades or w/e. The more you have the less effective it becomes. Go to the damage test NPC and put on a +15 attack blessing and melee whack it or use Emberstorm on a wiz. Put on the Jones' and do the same and you'll see an increase of about 10-12% or less depending on what your current attack level is.

_Mictian_ - Archosaur

so much rofls Quilue and Jhalil

to quilue: u forgot about 120ish atk levels coming from r9r3 wpn set and blessing

to jhalil: rofl you cannot compare damage npc to a geared char XD, def level formula is completely different respect attack level one, def levels exceeding opponent attack levels reduce damage by kinda 0,8% each lvl, attack levels exceeding enemy defense levels increase damage by 1% each lvl...

so lets make some maths then:

A: r9r3 josa -> 200atk lvls 50 def lvls
B: r9r3 josd -> 120atk lvls 90 def lvls

damage: 1000

A hits B for 2100

B hits A for 1700

Quilue - Sanctuary

_Mictian_ - Archosaur wrote: »

so much rofls Quilue and Jhalil

to quilue: u forgot about 120ish atk levels coming from r9r3 wpn set and blessing

to jhalil: rofl you cannot compare damage npc to a geared char XD, def level formula is completely different respect attack level one, def levels exceeding opponent attack levels reduce damage by kinda 0,8% each lvl, attack levels exceeding enemy defense levels increase damage by 1% each lvl...

so lets make some maths then:

A: r9r3 josa -> 200atk lvls 50 def lvls
B: r9r3 josd -> 120atk lvls 90 def lvls

damage: 1000

A hits B for 2100

B hits A for 1700

Does JOSA give more than 2 atk lv per shard or something? You have it as 24 JOSA giving 80 atk lv, or maybe 20 JOSA giving 80 atk lv.

I assumed

130 atk lv and 100 def lv on JOSD
178 atk lv and 52 def lv on JOSA.

Azura - Lost City

Sirkura - Raging Tide wrote: »

another thing is attack lvls gain more effectiveness over all the more you gain. the more damage% u gain the more damage bonus you will receive. likewise def lvls r the reverse, the more you gain the less effective they become over all. part of why they made +2 def gems and only +1attack. so 24 attack shards actually ads closer to 27% to your attack then 24.

It's all the opposite... Attack levels have diminishing returns*, while defense levels have constant returns.

*After you have more attack levels than ur opponent, your attack's level benefit will diminish.

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So it is now confirmed that +2 Attack Level Shards are coming in the content update, and I'm curious to everyone's reactions once this goes live.


Would the trend shift to Attack Level builds now for endgame?

Would it have significant impact on PvP or not?

What would be your personal pros and cons to this?

Any other thoughts you want to share about this?

There is already a impact on pvp with all the recasting going around,main reason for the lack of pvp.But I guess if your rich or dump money into the game then whatever floats your boat

Heleghir - Raging Tide

Lets just make +2 atk lvl sharded r9r2 casters impossible to tank even as a high hp jaded barb

even with def lvl r8r wep, those atk level shards just kill all hope of mitigating damage from caster nukes from 180-ish attack levels

metalmana

I can already see the RRR9+12 Psy With 200+ atk lvl f:cry 1 SHOT 1 KILL >>>
50k on caster / 100k+ on HA

PWi will turn in "You pay for RRR9 or get 1 shooted by those that pay"

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

ZooozOOo - Archosaur wrote: »

did u 1v1 secret n ace ? b:question

I killed ace first time in a mass PK, rest of my squad was dead when I took him in middle of 2 Junkies barb. 2nd time I popped on him on my own I took him down I believe. Agentnoob soloed him later from middle of Junkies. Secret popped on me twice as he still has few days of level advantage, I will hit 104 sunday/monday, and those fights were 1 on 1. But meh, I took the first round after which the 2nd pop was to get "back at me" if I know how our OP geared players think. No, it wasnt the "lets have 1vs1" **** but real PK, like it really should be, and if my gear is enough to give fighting chance against maxed out dmg sin that out levels me, so does r999.

_Mictian_ - Archosaur wrote: »

rofl no you have no idea what you are talking about

dunno which kind of pvp experiences you had but they do not face reality

a full +12 clean r9r3 can tank some hits from another clean r9r3+12, especially after nw gear introduction

a full +12 r9r3 with 48 more attack levels can tank that few hits while hugely outdamaging a full josd +12 r9r3

also prolly you dont have in mind the mass pvp scenario that is actually the whole PWI game.... call me when you get IG barraged from a full JoSA +12 r9r3 archer, or when you'll get 30k+ knife throws

Why dont you post from your main? Right now you are shouting from the bushes so to say. You have absolutely no idea of math, we already get so much attack levels on endgame that getting more have so nerfed gains its a meh. I got barraged ace, maxed out r9r3 DoTs and he was hitting me for bout 7k non crits. That was before I +10`d my orns and upgraded sky cover into stars destiny. Choc and rubber hit me close enough to what ace does, there is no major difference between their damage. Difference comes how in NW I actually want to find ace as I can take on him, rubber and choc I avoid as they are just stupid beefy. They may have different ornament decisions, the difference is just stupid high if its all from shards.

When you gear to the point we are talking bout, sharding more attack is so stupid as you already kill most ppl so easy due massive gear gap that more dmg becomes fairly irrelevant. On other hand more defenses allows you to take more hits and thus be more useful, dead DD hurts no one. But I guess I have no mass PK experience when Ive been part of major TW factions since server opened 3 years ago, discounting the periods I quit for reason or the other.

_Mictian_ - Archosaur

mr. forumhero any sin with 200 atk levels will hit you 5digits no matter what...

7k non crit barrage consider yourself lucky since archers nowadays have more than 60% crit if on g. charge even more... add 24% more damage from josa and you have a 19k hit from a barrage?

gg

The__Sun - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

At high gear levels 1v1s can easily last 30mins+ (unless one is wiz/seeker).

It's silly to have people complaining this would make it easier for OP people to kill low geared. R999 already does that easily. If OP people take out their JoSDs this will make much squishier to low geared users.

Similarly it won't have a pronounced effect on PVE since mobs already have 0 defense level.

What these stones will have the biggest effect on is that it would let OP people kill other OP people more easily. It's a counter to unkillable JoSD users.

The only people who should be complaining are those who currently have full JoSD.

I was going to say exactly this.
It will only really affect people that have JOSD cause if someone is rank999 and you dont have Jades they will have way more attack level anyways and an extra 24 attack levels is maaaybe 500 damage or so.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

_Mictian_ - Archosaur wrote: »

mr. forumhero any sin with 200 atk levels will hit you 5digits no matter what...

7k non crit barrage consider yourself lucky since archers nowadays have more than 60% crit if on g. charge even more... add 24% more damage from josa and you have a 19k hit from a barrage?

gg

Rofl. I told you, that was back then when my orns werent +10. Nowdays I`m pretty sure he would hit me lower with JoSA than he did before with DoTs due fairly massive jump in my p.def. Metal skills are whole another thing but meh, you brought up BoA, which I find amusing. I actually find said damage fairly reasonable considering how decked out toon we are talking bout - I really shouldnt be able to tank him with +10 refines, considering the grade my aps set it.

Ps. Also, JoSA offers nowhere near 24% more dmg over DoT sharded R999.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Honestly you people keep talking about how JOSA builds would do so much damage, they take the same increased damage from JOSD builds as well. The only thing that doesn't change is JOSD build vs JOSD build, while JOSA builds would **** other JOSA builds like they are naked.

If you're all JOSD already, I don't see a reason to go JOSA, unless you really want to kill other JOSDs.

Unholly - Morai

Sounds like a really bad implementation

but then i would much rather see all jade/DoD/Dot removed from the game

Valirah - Sanctuary

This thread is full of low geared people thinking that somehow this change is going to make their situation worse in comparison to maxed out endgamers. You're still going to be as outclassed as you are now, no worse, possibly better. Most anyone going +2 Att would have went JoSD before this update. Full JoSD makes damage from low geared sources pretty much inconsequential. +2 Att users will be giving up a good portion of this invulnerability.

In NW, when surrounded by a horde of lesser geared people, it's your defense that makes it possible to take them out and remain standing. Your offense is already more than enough to handle any of your attackers individually. Trouble is, they are all concentrated on 1 target, where you have many. In the one situation where low geared people have a chance against an endgamer (when they have the advantage of numbers), the +2 Att build is inferior to the +2 Def build.

ZooozOOo - Archosaur

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

I killed ace first time in a mass PK, rest of my squad was dead when I took him in middle of 2 Junkies barb. 2nd time I popped on him on my own I took him down I believe. Agentnoob soloed him later from middle of Junkies. Secret popped on me twice as he still has few days of level advantage, I will hit 104 sunday/monday, and those fights were 1 on 1. But meh, I took the first round after which the 2nd pop was to get "back at me" if I know how our OP geared players think. No, it wasnt the "lets have 1vs1" **** but real PK, like it really should be, and if my gear is enough to give fighting chance against maxed out dmg sin that out levels me, so does r999 .

there is a considerable distance between 1v1 n mass pk where the players genie n some skill might be in cd itz a lot more situational so it better not to judge defense just coz of that.

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Maxing out full end game gears, josd build is already squishy enough.

Lyritha - Heavens Tear

Great! White voodoo with insane amounts of attack level!

The game :

Heavy class - make a seeker
Arcane class - make a psychic

everyone else :
QQ about being one shot

let me get my bucket of popcorn while I watch this chaos...


oh and even if by popular vote they are deemed not what the masses want it doesn't matter... like Microsoft with its Xbox One they'll just stick with it!

Zsw - Dreamweaver

I just thought of something. +2 attack level shard is probably made to counter r8r weapon with Def level +25, +5, +5, +5. It all makes sense now!

NigeIus - Dreamweaver

it is kinda unfair that new classed like sins, seekers,psyc can manipulate attk/def lvls and other classes cant. it is a very big advantage for those classes couse they can easily swap from a very tank class to a cannon glass in just one click. there is no balance about it. but ooo well balance in pwi was broken way b4 when sins arrived :P and not for the aps. couse uknow there was aps bms b4 sins arrived thing is, aps became more common couse of bloodpaint :P anyways, i hope one day bm gets op.


so far we saw
barb+clerics time: remember when they had first pick in tt?
venos time: when venos were the richest toon in game, couse they could solo tt :P

then sin era: was kinda imposible to kill sins in pk :P

and now mages+seekers :P

BM will be the last class to get op!!!!!so bad pwi wont exist anymore LOL

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Time for math lessons

1. Let's say you have 130 atk level and 80 def level (p. much endgame non-seekers and non-white voodoo psys)

2. going +2atk gem = +48 atk level, -48 def level

3. (130+48)/130 = 1.369 = 37% increase in damage as provided by atk levels

4. (80-48)/80 = 0.4 = 60% decrease in defense provided by def levels

lol

nixop

like always pwi coming out with **** updates

just more and more boutique items that will break the game even more but make them money

you guys can be sure it wont stop here.... 3def level and rank10 will eventually come out

pw is a nice game and it had great potential....sadly devs ruined it with their greediness

i know companies needs to make money but there was other solutions

they chose short term one which really made them lot of money (rank9-second-third recast)

money was never problem because they were already making a lot (with thousands of people playing(back then) - buying packs,charms,mounts and all boutique stuff - people can remember all the crazy duke red spams every day)

this company does a **** job for their players

i would never recomend anyone to start play pwi...not because of game...because of pw (company)

anyways not looking forward this update b:chuckle

demxhunter

people are just qqing cuz there full +2 def already but lets put it this way.
when your refines are at max, and you got like 20k hp, 60 def level is not gonna help you much, r9 gears even add way more attack levels then def levels. and as sin surivablity, with decent hp, the harder you hit, the more hp you recover and as for pvp its always been who ever gets you first...

_Mictian_ - Archosaur

NigeIus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it is kinda unfair that new classed like sins, seekers,psyc can manipulate attk/def lvls and other classes cant. it is a very big advantage for those classes

this^
pure gold

also full josa zerkcrits...

3 def level stones HAVE to come out at this point, tho the price will be insanely high for them -> mass RQ xD

metalmana

The Game will turn into HELL

The archers RRR9+12 Full of these +2atk lvl stones will 1 SHOT 1 KILL EVERYTHING !!

f:fumef:despisef:fume

Chuck_smith - Sanctuary

demxhunter wrote: »

people are just qqing cuz there full +2 def already but lets put it this way.
when your refines are at max, and you got like 20k hp, 60 def level is not gonna help you much, r9 gears even add way more attack levels then def levels. and as sin surivablity, with decent hp, the harder you hit, the more hp you recover and as for pvp its always been who ever gets you first...

You do realise there is no def level blessing right? It was a bit balanced to have JOSD to counterbalance the jones blessing and o'malley is in the middle. Now the devs should make a 30 defense level blessing for that to be even with the att lvl +2 shards and jones blessing.

Also you are right it has always been whoever gets you first, the stun locking going to the kill in less than 10 seconds. This will make wiz, clerics, psys and mystics one shot everyone and the purify spell is too bad. I would be surprised that people will still PVP outside of NW (people talk about PVP but they really don't).

Azura - Lost City

NigeIus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

it is kinda unfair that new classed like sins, seekers,psyc can manipulate attk/def lvls and other classes cant. it is a very big advantage for those classes couse they can easily swap from a very tank class to a cannon glass in just one click. there is no balance about it. but ooo well balance in pwi was broken way b4 when sins arrived :P and not for the aps. couse uknow there was aps bms b4 sins arrived thing is, aps became more common couse of bloodpaint :P anyways, i hope one day bm gets op.


so far we saw
barb+clerics time: remember when they had first pick in tt?
venos time: when venos were the richest toon in game, couse they could solo tt :P

then sin era: was kinda imposible to kill sins in pk :P

and now mages+seekers :P

BM will be the last class to get op!!!!!so bad pwi wont exist anymore LOL

But old classes switch their defenses a lot, something that only mystics have with verdant shield.

bms ->marrows, aura belt
wizards -> shields
barbarians -> true form
venos -> fox form
clerics -> their own buffs, and plume shell for physical attacks

Depending on the gear any of the characters above have, they can earn the equivalent to many defense levels.

Old classes aren't so helpless.

demxhunter

the only people def levels can benfit is a barb or a seeker. A barb with 30k hp+shell+def levels is extremely hard to kill, but every 1 else does not have a def like a barb. Why waste time trying to raise defense...new shards can make some 200+ attack level