DQ Items worthless

BringinDeath - Archosaur

SunDownXIII - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Maybe they want us to use real money instead of in game coin :-P

This is where PWI fail

At low lvl, people want to gain coins by dp's, mobs etc. But at high lvl, items become alot more expensive.

So if you cut out the low lvls, then less people will join as they will find out that getting to lvl 80+ will be a nightmare and they will just give up or leave completely

L_Fate_l - Heavens Tear

Going back to the problem with Chinese botters...

Not sure about this, but I think you can do something like 'selling accounts' in China. This probably isn't allowed with PW-CN, but 1) there are just too many people in China to make everyone follow the rules, 2) even if PW-CN manages to control them, somehow the Chinese always manage to squeeze through cracks. Not to insult anyone, because I'm Chinese myself.

Hypothetically speaking if this really is the case:
1. Botters can 'play the game without playing it', making the character high level, with possibly good gear and weapon (remember, I am talking about PW-CN where the gain obtaining process may be quite different from PWI, as in easier). This means these people can sell their character, all ready and wonderful, to someone possibly like the plvled people on here that at first glance think this game is really awesome. (No offense against the plvled, you guys are cool too.) This way, the botter can obtain REAL money with perhaps no real money invested in the game himself (again, this is China). Which means the money that the company could have earned from the new player (possibly by gaining good gear/CS items using normal methods) is instead earned by the botter, who has not paid the company. In other words the botter is using the game/company as a money making machine for himself. In the end the new player probably is just lazy to grind and quest and level and probably just wants to pk or get married or be cool and nuking and powerful or something. And look pretty. And seeing they level pretty fast in China the ultimate highest seems to be the goal lol.

2. Advertisements are HUGE in China. Nearly every website you come across will have random advertisements of all kinds, COMPLETELY RANDOM. As in, on a gaming site you can have an ad about medicine, idk. If you download some software that speeds up video speed and only does that, random ads will probably pop up out of nowhere and sometimes music even plays from nowhere (pretty sure that's why my computer plays music which I can't find the source of). I'm pretty sure there are a lot more ads around the Internet in China that in the western society. Which means a lot more PW ads, which will always draw new unknowing players with its pretty graphics. And the Chinese have no worries for the fear of chasing away new players because there are just too many people in China; like ants, the new players probably will never end.
...
Btw Chinese people are not ants.

3. If for some reason PW-CN doesn't put up ads, I think all games have some ranking thing on some central website which also shows the auctions of selling accounts and what not. Completely unsure of this though. Could have been some other site in my memory that got glitched.

The above three points are completely hypothetical. I probably did see all this a year or something ago so they may have even removed it. (But again there are too many people in China that it is almost impossible to control these things...the 'youtube's of china don't ever get controlled lol. Movie out in cinema, nek minute you get to watch it for free although low quality)

Sorry for going off topic a lot. But in conclusion, if the above is indeed true: PW-CN can kind of get rid of botters without being worried about losing new players. And that's basically it. They have no worry for themselves, so they probably won't worry for PWE. The Chinese are kind of self-centred~b:surrender

_Geogaddi - Archosaur

Can someone tell me why sometimes my DQ rewards update in one hour and other times it updates in SEVEN FREAKING DAYS.

Jacerai - Dreamweaver

_Geogaddi - Archosaur wrote: »

Can someone tell me why sometimes my DQ rewards update in one hour and other times it updates in SEVEN FREAKING DAYS.

Easy: the mass incoming of DQ points for all the servers is causing the system to slow.

It is an old system, so the massive influx of the points just causes it to be behind.

Raujada - Archosaur

So? Any news about a possible return of our favourite source of coins?

axejst

Quote:
Originally Posted by axejst View Post
So how is that whole DQ gold nerf going?

"It's a known issue and GMs are working on a fix"

Yeah. Sure.

But it's ok seeing as everyone has shut up and moved on to the cash shop, just as planned.

OPKossy:
"Ir actually IS being dealt with and worked on. The exact specifics are unknown to us but Hey, you! is doing his best to get it dealt with for us."


That is what I last saw. Of course, you know what has actually been done to "fix" this "known issue".

I just dumped 2 million coins into my barbarian for skills and gear repairs. He just turned 63. I am down to about 15 million now, shared between my 40-70 crowd. At the rate the repairs and skills cost and considering that there is virtually no incoming cash, I've got a few weeks left before I'm broke and out of here. Bummer.

Kiptyn - Archosaur

I've noticed that recently, I'm not even getting the rewards for npc'ing the DQ's. I thought maybe the website just needed a few days to catch up. But after about a week and still no points for my DQ items, I'm getting worried.

Is anyone else having this problem?? b:cry

Krel - Heavens Tear

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dont know if its for 81 DQ Items too but i saw tday that the 61/71 Items are worth 1 coin now. How im supposed to get coins for gear,skills and such till im 100 now?

derrr really they are of some value toward you as in dq rewards.
derrr you can sell them for more than 1 coin in your own catshop,people buy them for banker quest and such.
derrrrrrr if your relying on just dq for gear/skills,your gonna be grinding for a long timeb:laugh There are many many other efforts in making coins than off dq.Hmmmmm if you can grind all day long for silly dq you will have better luck just running herb/mat routes.

Axejst - Archosaur

axejst wrote: »

I find no entertainment in running around plucking weeds, picking up dirt and selling it to others.

So many people are missing the point - something that has been a fundamental part of the appeal of this game has been removed. It's as simple as that. Telling me that I can get it back by spending countless hours farming, selling or any other activity I have no interest in will not replace it. That's like telling someone they can't go bowling anymore, but feel free to play soccer instead - when they hate soccer and just want to go bowling again.

Just using the quote function because I don't feel like typing the whole thing every time some belligerent troll shows up.

frozenveille

As a returning player working on a new server, and therefore new characters, I can say this is absolute garbage. There is absolutely no viable way to make a profit by killing monsters now, and I have found that new players cannot under any circumstances break even to keep up repairs/teleport costs. This update is complete garbage, and not justified in any sense of the word. While China may have bot problems with DQ items, the bots aren't going to be removed. The attention will just be diverted elsewhere, such as material gathering bots.

I have already seen a massive new player population decrease since this patch release. It's completely obscene.

I completely regret charging Zen since re-joining. While I planned on doing a bit of "pay-to-win" through the early levels to speed things up, I wish I had not supported PWE from the get-go and looked in other directions for new games.

I have seen companies sell "**** stat" weapons for $230.00 for one hour for only one day ever, never to be sold again, forever-breaking both the economy and PvP competitiveness, however this update actually manages to surpass said sale in making the game pay-to-play and completely turning off customers.

I had plans to continue to purchase Zen over the next few weeks, however I WILL NOT spend any amount of money on ANY of PWE's games until this issue is resolved. This is a problem with an extremely easy fix: it requires no re-rolls, it doesn't require large code changes, and said modifications will not cause incompatibility issues with future content. The fact it's taking this long clearly demonstrates PWE's lack of interest of actually resolving the problem, the incapability of the developers/testers to foresee future problems, and the overall incompetence of yet another MMO publishing company.

This is an absolute outrage.

Jaabg - Sanctuary

On a serious note, how many people posting in this thread only have 1 character, that character is between lvl 1~70?

frozenveille

I do because I'm starting fresh on a new server closer to me because of crazy high pings on the West Coast servers.

The majority of other low levels I began with have quit already because they could not afford to repair their armor.

TolanSky - Heavens Tear

VVhisper - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't see the reason behind the nerfing of the DQ items above lvl 45-50.

I've played many games that actually do have bots and coin farmers, but rarely do you see one killing mobs above lvl 50.
It's too hard to kill a mob above lvl 50 and takes too long, because most bots will kill lvl's below them for fast kills and little potions. Also they don't get hit as hard so less repair bills.

Mobs in this game (even high level mobs) aren't all that difficult to defeat. A group of properly geared level 75's can kill every single mob except the last 3 bosses inside of Frostcovered City aka Forgotten Frostlands aka FF. Additionally a properly geared Venomancer at level 60 with a Hercules can solo Twilight Temple's first dungeon. So really the argument that high level mobs are impossible for bots to solo easily is null and void. Especially when you consider the fact that World Mobs are alot easier to fight than are the Elite Dungeon Mobs.

The instant you show me a high level mob that requires 18 max level players in the best gear possible to defeat it, and which takes those 18 players a full 48 hours to defeat it, then I will concede to the argument that botters will usually focus on lower level mobs. And yes there is a game in which that type of set up was necessary to beat a mob and which it took that long to beat said mob.

VVhisper - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And if that's not bad enough what's up with giving us only 2 new quests at lvl 83+
You tell us we can make up for the 1 coin DQ items by doing quests, but I ask you, how do we do that when you don't give us enough quests at certain lvl's?

Slight correction, the DQ Items from level 81 and forward have not been nerfed. Thus it is only the DQ Items that are below level 81 that need to be replaced by quests. Therefore that means they really did not need to give us a whole slew of new quests at 81+ to replace the loss of DQ Items, now did they?

noobynoobydoo wrote: »

or heres a thought make blood moon bracers lvl 60 mold and sell it for 50 mil b:laugh

When did Bracer's of Blood Moon go up to 50 million coins in value? Last I checked they were valued at around 25 million coins. If they are actually 50 million, I may now have a reason to make them after all...

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Some people can't wake up at 3 a.m. to play during NW event.

This is why the European Servers actually exist. So that people with a Time Zone that puts them on the wrong side of the earth to play in events that are scheduled for North and South America's prime time, can actually participate in those events... Unless you are telling me that the European Servers Nation Wars are actually not scheduled by Server Time, but instead on some weird schedule that sets them up according to the United States time zones?

axejst wrote: »

I just dumped 2 million coins into my barbarian for skills and gear repairs. He just turned 63. I am down to about 15 million now, shared between my 40-70 crowd. At the rate the repairs and skills cost and considering that there is virtually no incoming cash, I've got a few weeks left before I'm broke and out of here. Bummer.

easy solution: use that 15 million spread between all your characters to level one of your level 70 characters up to level 80ish and then proceed to collect Level 81+ DQ Items as those are actually still worth their original value. That way you have at least one character that can fund your other characters in some fashion. Also, I highly recommend to everyone that they level a Venomancer for farming purposes because they have significantly lower repair costs and much less of a need to use MP and HP Charms by virtue of having a pet to do their fighting for them. This makes farming much much easier.

Krel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

derrr really they are of some value toward you as in dq rewards.
derrr you can sell them for more than 1 coin in your own catshop,people buy them for banker quest and such.
derrrrrrr if your relying on just dq for gear/skills,your gonna be grinding for a long timeb:laugh There are many many other efforts in making coins than off dq.Hmmmmm if you can grind all day long for silly dq you will have better luck just running herb/mat routes.

Despite his sounding like a troll while saying it, Krel makes a very valid point. Anyone who relies solely on DQ Items in order to make coin in this game, is not going to be able to make enough of a profit margin after all the deductions are considered to actually be making much of anything, unless they are doing nothing during the day other than farming DQ Items, and they are playing a Venomancer. Simply put, between Repair Costs, MP and HP Charms, and various other factors, you will be spending as much or more than what you are recovering by selling the DQ Items, even if the lower level DQ Items were still at full value, and even if that 20% decrease across the board a couple years back hadn't actually gone through. So really all this change effectively does is force people to use the various other methods of making money that are in the game to make up for the minute loss of the lower level DQ Items that really shouldn't have played such a huge part in making money in this game.

frozenveille wrote: »

As a returning player working on a new server, and therefore new characters, I can say this is absolute garbage. There is absolutely no viable way to make a profit by killing monsters now, and I have found that new players cannot under any circumstances break even to keep up repairs/teleport costs.

Let us count the ways:

1. Do your FB's and claim rights on the boss drops that you by all rights should be getting anyways. That should net you a bit of cash each time.
2. Do your BH's and split the cost of Wines so that you can have a portion of the treasure drops.
3. Farm Crafting Materials while you are out doing quests, thereby getting money by either crafting items or from selling the materials (some of these materials are actually worth more than what the DQ Items of the equivalent level were worth before the Nerf).
4. Farm DQ Items, trade them in for points, and use those points to obtain Perfect Stones which you then sell for profit. Each Perfect Stone is worth about the same value as a low level DQ Item (at least on my server) and you can get 1 Perfect Stone for about the cost of 2 Oblivion Soups (or a couple of the lower level items).
5. DO YOUR QUESTS. While it may not be the most fun thing, the majority of quests do reward you with coins. And doing those type of quests consistently, can award you with not only sufficient amounts of coins at low levels, but also with gear appropriate to your class for those levels as well. Most of the quest gear is as good or better than a large chunk of the Mold Gear you get from FB's (not counting TT, Nirvana, Lunar or Rank Gear, but if your going for those you're already likely a cash shopper anyways).

So in short there are a myriad of ways (many of which I probably didn't even list) to gain coin between the levels of 1 and 60. So I want people to stop complaining that they cannot make sufficient coins.

frozenveille wrote: »

This is a problem with an extremely easy fix: it requires no re-rolls, it doesn't require large code changes, and said modifications will not cause incompatibility issues with future content. The fact it's taking this long clearly demonstrates PWE's lack of interest of actually resolving the problem, the incapability of the developers/testers to foresee future problems, and the overall incompetence of yet another MMO publishing company.

This is an absolute outrage.

This statement is categorically false. The fact that it is taking this long demonstrates that there are issues that go beyond simple coding issues that are being taken into account. For one thing when our community manager said he would look into the issue, I believe he specified that he would be speaking to the game's developers about the issue. The developers are not employed by Perfect World Entertainment. Rather they are employed by Wanmei (aka Perfect World: China). As such it is in Perfect World: China's court now as to whether there is a fix to this issue, not Perfect World Entertainment.

Since this issue was first instituted to fix a problem that exists in China, it is really a matter of whether the Chinese developers can be made to recognize that this problem does not exist in a universal fashion. However since the Chinese are a communist state who do not believe in individuality in the same fashion as the United States does, the issue then becomes a matter of whether they will subsequently believe that there needs to be an individual game package for each individual nation, or whether a unified whole package can be made to apply for all nations that the game is used by. In other words, right now the issue is more a matter of politics than it is a matter of game design.

condo2009

point IS, a new player fresh off the street will NOT stay unless they have a charge card period. No way a NEW player can make it in this game without cash shopping. This is NOT a free to play game any more. Wake up.

Allisandre - Sanctuary

condo2009 wrote: »

point IS, a new player fresh off the street will NOT stay unless they have a charge card period. No way a NEW player can make it in this game without cash shopping. This is NOT a free to play game any more. Wake up.

This is correct. I made a Psy, played it up without utilizing anything from my other toons or anything. Played it just as if it were a fresh person with little game experience in the F2P fashion. At level 40 I was really huirting. Since level 24, most all of the quests I had done were the cultivations. I was barely making enough coin to afford pots. The saving grace was the free charms that are now given out until you hit level 60 and the coind rewards from the Goshinki quest chain. Then I hit 60. Still leveling fast, so fast that I'm still wearing that level 30 rank gear. Can't afford to purchase more gear. Can't afford to purchase more skill upgrades. Can't afford to buy charms to replace the free ones I'm not getting anymore. And pretty much can't afford to play unless I open my wallet and start spending.

Sure, you could invest some of that coin and merchant. But it's a really small trickle until you can get some money for the higher dollar items. And, with the way the in-game economy is (thank you greedy players), that can take a very long time indeed. Now you spend more time merchanting to try to afford to just get by and less time playing. Sorry, I signed up for an MMORPG, not a sandbox merchant game.

frozenveille

While I don't disagree with anything you're saying, Tolan, it is important to keep the following in mind:

1.) Newbies aren't guaranteed to be completely aware of how the DQ/DP system works. They see an NPC price of 1 on an item, and with such limited bag space, they're going to drop them.

2.) Through the early levels, the quest coin reward: coins used in teleport ratio is less than one. This means that if you want to keep repairing your armor, you need to walk or fly everywhere, something that is painfully slow and a huge turn-off, especially because quests are so quick early and take the amount of time they do just because of the amount of transportation required.

3.) Money acquisition should not be limited to selling in a Catshop. To tell me that for every six hours I play I need to AFK for twenty is simply just silly by design.

4.) PWE removed the supply stash. This means new players aren't getting new weapons to get through the very early levels, and also means players aren't getting money-boosting rewards like the 500 perfect stones - money essential to buying equipment and skills.

5.) Mat prices are doomed to fall rather quickly, and mats can be farmed by anyone. This doesn't help new players actually get anywhere.

6.) 81+ DQ items are just as easily obtained. The bots are just gonna farm those ones. Nowhere does this "fix" actually resolve anything long-term.

7.) My new character, at level 35, is already 300k in the hole and is currently equipped with gear that has been free (Rep armor, level 10-15 quest armor, quest accessories, fb19 weapon still). How many DQ drops have I acquired since starting? About 300. To tell me that problems have been fixed is just silly.

8.) I get that PWE is a subsidiary company of another publisher. The same applies to many other imported MMO's, often from Korea, some of which I have worked my way into becoming moderators or volunteer GM's. Trust me when I say it, coding is not the problem. Fact of the matter is the US-based branches don't actually ever bother to contact the developers about the issues in-game, even if they're aware of them. This is because those with the capabilities of doing so often do not care, or do not know enough about the game to understand the significance of the problem. In most cases, the higher-ups don't even play the game, or simply just lie that they do. Coding fixes, especially with a game this size, can often be fixed and tested within a matter of days, and no, nothing is difficult to change, here. Changing the NPC values is easy; it just requires some database updating for our servers. Plus, they did it once already.

9.) This issue is no longer stopping bots. It's now about retaining a player base, getting new players to join and stay, and keeping the state of the game decent. Trust me in that I'm completely against bots - even in games like JD where they are legal I still refuse to use them - but frankly, retaining players is more critical than preventing some low level bots from making some money. Clearly PWE-CN wants to end RMT (Getting rid of bots is the best way) - a strategy that both looks good for them, and both directly and indirectly makes them more money. Fact of the matter, though, is that they'll be doing quite the opposite if people are both leaving and resorting to RMT to make the "pay-to-play" problem less of a problem on their wallets.

There are simply two fixes that I can think of:

-Return DQ values to what they were previously

OR

-Update the client with a completely revamped teleporting and repairing systems which are aimed to heavily reduce costs throughout the early-mid levels of the game, such as making teleport costs be the result of an exponential function based on character level, and simply lowering all repair costs on equipment rated for levels 70 and below.

The latter still requires effectively the same database updating (actually, more updating) as the first to reduce the repair costs, as well as extra coding and testing for the new changes. This, however, still leaves us with potential problems such as people botting mats, as well as there being a significantly decreased coin sink.

Simply put, the best fix is the former, and database updating of this level shouldn't cause any client incompatibilities with future content, just because NPC prices on items really don't affect or interact with anything else.

Axejst - Archosaur

[QUOTE=easy solution: use that 15 million spread between all your characters to level one of your level 70 characters up to level 80ish and then proceed to collect Level 81+ DQ Items as those are actually still worth their original value. That way you have at least one character that can fund your other characters in some fashion. Also, I highly recommend to everyone that they level a Venomancer for farming purposes because they have significantly lower repair costs and much less of a need to use MP and HP Charms by virtue of having a pet to do their fighting for them. This makes farming much much easier.[/QUOTE]


So your advice is to go make a Venomancer, level it to level 81+ and then farm like mad so I can play the characters I used play before? Your alternative is to have me stop what I have enjoyed about the game for two years, go make a toon whose class I have tried and don't like, focus ONLY on that one toon until I am high enough to spend hours FARMING (yawn) and even MORE HOURS being a catshop?

How many time do I have to explain this? I DON'T WANT TO BE A FARMER OR CATSHOP 90% OF MY PLAYING TIME.

It's a shame - you seem like an intelligent enough fellow. What part of this aren't you getting? Something was taken away from us. Something that made the game fun, even on a small gaming budget. That something was important. So when my budget runs out, I'm done. Other will be done too. And some of your new players will shell out money, like the high-rollers here do (the ones PWI cares about). But it won't be enough.

And I'm pretty sure that PWI, PWI China, PWI Moonbase 451, whoever, does not give a damn. That is, until they become the next SOE.

Selak - Dreamweaver

I think you guys miss the point.
This is a Role Playing Game. (RPG)
Therefore as in RL you may be born with a "silver spoon in your mouth" e.g. be a cash shopper.
Or like some with nothing and having to fight for everything they own, e.g. total non cash shopper.
Plus all the shades of grey between the two extremes.
Learning a game like this is not meant to be too easy, and even I have done some very silly things just because I did not know about all the options I had available, such as deleting a char instead of reset stone. lol.
As to the DQ coin nerf it was stated when that change came the quest rewards would be increased to compensate.
As with real like anything in this game will cost (Time+Effort) or (Cash+Time) or any combo of (Time+Cash+Effort)
Choose how you want too play be happy or leave and find a game that suits your personal tastes better.
Not being rude too anyone this is a choice I face every day like everyone else. b:chuckle

Telarith - Sanctuary

Clerics always have, and always will, have the cheapest leveling and repair costs of classes due to being able to flying AoE farm poison mobs. **** killing 5-10 mobs with herc when a cleric with cheap gear can easily farm 20-30 poison mobs at a time before bumping that up when they actually get good gear. And poison mobs don't cause any type of signifant damage with to gear with their ticks.

And considering this was done back in early Nov 2008, it's been around a long damn while.

Seirina - Dreamweaver

MasterofIce - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I dont know if its for 81 DQ Items too but i saw tday that the 61/71 Items are worth 1 coin now. How im supposed to get coins for gear,skills and such till im 100 now?

Going back to the question of making money, if you are lower level they raised the coin for quest rewards, so do your quests. If you are 70+ farm some mats, do some quests, merchant, find a faction that will run TT together and sell the mats. The 80+ quests make you 100k each at least now.

TolanSky - Heavens Tear

condo2009 wrote: »

point IS, a new player fresh off the street will NOT stay unless they have a charge card period. No way a NEW player can make it in this game without cash shopping. This is NOT a free to play game any more. Wake up.

I outlined 5 perfectly valid ways to make coin without having to charge RL money. How am I missing the point?

Allisandre - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is correct. I made a Psy, played it up without utilizing anything from my other toons or anything. Played it just as if it were a fresh person with little game experience in the F2P fashion. At level 40 I was really huirting. Since level 24, most all of the quests I had done were the cultivations. I was barely making enough coin to afford pots.

This simply demonstrates the fact that even veteran players are so ingrained in the belief that you require DQ Items in order to make money that they can't comprehend the fact that there are alternative methods of making money in this game.

I mean really, Dragon Quest Items were never supposed to be intended by the game designers to be something people sold to merchants in order to make money. That is something that one or more of the game designers added to a later expansion for some odd reason. The original purpose of Dragon Quest Items was to actually hand them in for the Dragon QUEST itself, or for the Bank Upgrade Quest. They weren't intended to be used for what we currently use them for. I mean sure, even back then they had a coin value, but to be honest they were better served for the actual Dragon Quest than for selling to NPC merchants due to the rewards from the Dragon Quest.

So those of you complaining that you are losing money should re-evaluate what the DQ Items were originally for, and perhaps, possibly do those original quests that the DQ Items were for. Because you know, apparently Bracer's of Blood Moon and the other gear you get from those quests are actually really good for low level characters, and they are virtually free for all intents and purposes (sans repair costs).

frozenveille wrote: »

will reply by numbers

1. This assumes of course that they have absolutely ZERO experience with Role Playing Games in general or with Free to Play Role Playing Games as a whole. While I agree that in general dropping items with an NPC price of 1 coin is something most new players might do, the fact remains that if people constantly drop items with low NPC values, then they are invariably going to drop something that is incredibly important (such as Call to Duty Tablets for example as those do not have a significant NPC price at all).

2. It may be painfully slow to fly everywhere, but it also saves you tons of in game money, which is why unless I am in a massive hurry, I tend to fly everywhere. I always recommend others to do the same. As for repair costs, I tend to lean in the direction that it is perfectly acceptable to spend an hour a day at low levels farming Crafting Materials and setting up an Alternate account to merchant those crafting materials for me. That or selling and buying Perfect Stones or Mirage Celestones. Either of those pursuits is a sure fire way to make some capital as a low level merchant. Heck, even collecting and selling the materials needed for certain quests is a good method of making some money. In fact there is an old guide book on how exactly to become an effective merchant hanging about somewhere on the net, and I do not believe it mentions the DQ Items anywhere in said guidebook unless those items are part of a quest chain or some such.

3. I agree, if everyone attempted to make money simply by catshopping, and no one utilized the NPC Merchants at all, then the inflow of money into the in game economy would stagnate and eventually there would be no new money flowing into said economy. Heck with repair costs eventually all of the money would disappear completely if no one was selling items to the NPC merchants. This is in my opinion the worst part of nerfing the DQ Items. Not the fact that it hinders money making for low levels, but rather that it hurts the in-game economy as a whole.

4. I haven't created a new character recently so I can't comment on whether they have or haven't removed the supply stash. I just know that the Supply Stash I still have on my level 40 to 70 characters still appears to be working properly.

5. How do you figure?

6. agreed.

7. I wouldn't say the problem has been fixed as I agree that the removal of the DQ Item's value is a problem for the long term health of the in game economy. What I was stating is that there are alternative methods for making money in the short term. Unfortunately unless the DQ Item Values are restored, I fear that the game may well eventually die due to the rapid decrease in available capital.

8. I would advise against over generalizations when engaging in a discussion regarding a corporation whose game you play. Saying in essence that you know for a fact that all foreign import video game companies do not bother to contact their parent companies for issues of this sort, is a massive over generalization. I will admit that I have been known to over generalize, but not in such a blatant manner as this (I hope).

Axejst - Archosaur wrote: »

So your advice is to go make a Venomancer, level it to level 81+ and then farm like mad so I can play the characters I used play before? Your alternative is to have me stop what I have enjoyed about the game for two years, go make a toon whose class I have tried and don't like, focus ONLY on that one toon until I am high enough to spend hours FARMING (yawn) and even MORE HOURS being a catshop?

How many time do I have to explain this? I DON'T WANT TO BE A FARMER OR CATSHOP 90% OF MY PLAYING TIME.

Who said anything about Catshopping? The reason I specified getting a Veno to around level 81 or higher was so that you could farm the level 81, and 91 Dragon Quest Items and sell those to an NPC for their full pre-nerf value. Reason being because the nerf that lowered most of the DQ Items all the way down to a value of 1 Coin, did not in fact have an effect on the level 81 and 91 DQ Items AT ALL. So you can still farm those and sell them to an NPC and make money doing it.

This is especially true if you are doing it on a Veno because you will have very little to no need to pay repair costs, and you will have very little to no need to purchase MP or HP Charms. This will minimize the expenses you have to recover while you are farming the DQ Items while maximizing the profits you are making while farming the DQ Items. In turn this allows you to effectively make a **** ton of money while also gaining a decent chunk of Experience for your trouble. I consider that a win win scenario.

Arguing that you don't want to be a farmer is just plain nonsense. If you don't wish to spend at least some time during the game engaging in farming, then you really did pick the wrong video game genre to be playing. MMORPG's are notorious for requiring people to have to farm at least some of the time they are playing them.

P.S. Telarith also raises a good point that Clerics are just as good at farming with low repair costs as are Venomancers. But what Telarith fails to mention is that the Venomancer can basically achieve the same effect by farming using a flying pet instead of using air to ground attacks the way a cleric does. In that way the Venomancer bypasses the -50% damage debuff for air to ground attacks.

Axejst - Archosaur

Imagine this: I take away the spoon you are using at dinner, that you have used at thousands of meals.

I point out that you could use a screwdriver, a knife, a car bumper, a shovel, a dead cat's paw, a crushed soda can, or clipped fingernail or even a nice fork. They all work, it just takes a lot more time and effort. Unless, say, you own a golden spoon. Then it will not be taken from you; it will be business as usual.

I don't have a golden spoon. I just want my normal spoon back. **** you and your forks, shovel and car bumpers.

About 7 million to go.

frozenveille

It could be possible the DQ drops were raised in value in order to allow money to be added to the economy for the exact reason that there was none. Also remember that new players aren't and shouldn't be expected to join with the intent of making money by playing the market instead of playing the game, nor should they be expected to know which items to try and make money off of. And of course, it just circles back to the argument that we're playing an RPG, not a pseudo-investing/retail game.

CTD Tabs clearly and explicitly state their purpose in their description, though, and quest dialogue also tells you that you need the tabs. Bank expansion and DQ quest items don't, nor do they show up in the main area of the quest dialogue. I really don't think there's a reasonable comparison, here.

If I may also add, NPC-fodder items which have absolutely no use except for NPC'ing (Ragged Fur, etc.) are all now also worth 1 coin. The only drops that provide new money now are potions and equipment. And of course, potions need to be used to stay alive, so we're left at just equipment, which has fairly low drop rates. Thus, there is really no way to acquire money as a new player by selling to NPC's. It's also important to note we're currently on double drop rate, too, so all current examples are further validated.

Transportation shouldn't be a painfully slow process, especially when it's all low level quests really have you doing. We're playing a game that supposedly involves combat, not wasting hours going from point A to point B. Some of the very early quests such as exploring the starter towns or communicating to and from arch already set you back 2-4k minimum, and running in between say, Tellus City and Arch is just unreasonable.

They did actually completely remove the supply stash quest for all new characters, and provided no means of compensation for equipment or money. Only characters created before its removal still have them (and they still work).

If everyone is supposed to sell mats for money, it just implies people are going to farm mats like crazy, ultimately lowering the price. I predict that the 81 and 91 DQ items will also face price nerfs in the future, and therefore people between the levels of 1 and 90 or so will all be farming mats for cash.

While PWE may be different from most publishers, I've witnessed too many Korean/Japanese imports fail to provide adequate content for their players because of a lack of voluntary communication and interest on the corporate level, as well as an overall lack of knowledge about the game by the top-tier employees which prevents them from submitting a detailed report on what they want done. Yes, this is a generalization, but it happens too frequently for it not to be considered a valid argument.

The coin increases from quests is negligible. I think they increased them by a maximum of 500-1000 coins. It really doesn't offset the issue at all.

Regardless of how one looks at it, though, everyone can agree this patch was for the negative, and if it goes unresolved, potentially game-killing. While it's still feasible for a newbie to make money (I was well aware catshopping mats would have profit yields), PWE needs to be aware of the severity of this problem. We can't just kick it under the carpet and say "There are still ways to make money, and problems won't happen until later on," and then just wait for "later on". There are clear, real, and severe consequences that WILL happen from this patch, and if left untreated, these consequences will occur, so why not fight for a fix now, which not only helps the new players and prevents population/economic decline, than wait until it's either almost or already too late?

TolanSky - Heavens Tear

frozenveille wrote: »

If I may also add, NPC-fodder items which have absolutely no use except for NPC'ing (Ragged Fur, etc.) are all now also worth 1 coin. The only drops that provide new money now are potions and equipment. And of course, potions need to be used to stay alive, so we're left at just equipment, which has fairly low drop rates. Thus, there is really no way to acquire money as a new player by selling to NPC's. It's also important to note we're currently on double drop rate, too, so all current examples are further validated.

Unless you are incredibly foolish and ditch the quest to obtain MP and HP Charms prior to level 60, then you really don't need to be using Potions to stay alive prior to level 60, and as such you can be depositing those potions into NPC's to obtain coin as with the gear drops.

Additionally, just because something is only worth a single coin, does not mean you should not be selling it to an NPC. I mean you are still getting DQ Points in the case of DQ Items. And you are still getting a single coin in the exchange which is still more than ZERO Coins. If they had nerfed the DQ Items and other extraneous items to the point where they didn't reward you with any coins whatsoever, then I could see a reason to be absolutely enraged. But fact is that they still give a single coin, so there is still an inflow of coins. You just need to farm hundreds of thousands of them to make a reasonable profit (which again is a good reason to be playing a class that doesn't need to worry about repair costs or MP costs nearly as much as the other classes do).

Additionally you still have other methods by which to make money. For example you can feed experience into a Zeal and level it up to level 10. If you get a good roll on the Lucky Points a Zeal can be worth as much as 400,000 coins. Additionally because you are feeding your experience points to said Zeal, that means you can do more quests, thereby earning more coin from said quests. This in turn will increase your profit margin on two fronts. So all hope is not completely lost. In fact there are a couple of very good guides on this site itself on how to make money at low levels.

frozenveille wrote: »

Transportation shouldn't be a painfully slow process, especially when it's all low level quests really have you doing. We're playing a game that supposedly involves combat, not wasting hours going from point A to point B. Some of the very early quests such as exploring the starter towns or communicating to and from arch already set you back 2-4k minimum, and running in between say, Tellus City and Arch is just unreasonable.

how is it unreasonable? I do it at least once a week via flyer. Additionally I even flew between Tellus and Arch when I was using a Starter Flyer a couple of times. So don't tell me that it is unreasonable just because you find it boring. It saves you money, that in and of itself makes it a reasonable thing to do if you ask me. Especially now that, as you have pointed out, there is a distinct lack of interesting ways to make money.

frozenveille wrote: »

They did actually completely remove the supply stash quest for all new characters, and provided no means of compensation for equipment or money. Only characters created before its removal still have them (and they still work).

Well and players who shell out enough tokens to purchase one from the boutique agent I suppose.

frozenveille wrote: »

If everyone is supposed to sell mats for money, it just implies people are going to farm mats like crazy, ultimately lowering the price. I predict that the 81 and 91 DQ items will also face price nerfs in the future, and therefore people between the levels of 1 and 90 or so will all be farming mats for cash.

If, and this is a big IF, PW-China decided to nerf the level 81 and 91 DQ Items, they will find that they have just killed their game in the biggest way possible. I will not argue that nerfing the DQ Items was a bad idea on the part of Perfect World China. My point of dissension however is that it only impacts low level players, and that it is impossible for those self-same low-level players to come anywhere close to making up the difference of the losses in their income.

Fact is that there are numerous ways to make capital in this game (and not just from farming mats) aside from what the DQ Items used to be. It is just that the DQ Items were the easiest and the most obvious methods by which to accomplish these goals. As such they were ultimately the ones that everyone was used to using. However with those methods gone it is important for people to recognize and admit that other methods do exist.

I will acknowledge that these other methods may not be as fast or efficient as selling DQ Items for profit. But they do exist and they can be used to make as much or in some cases more money than what you would have made doing DQ Items.

For example, while it may be a bit like gambling, if everyone started doing the Cube of Fate on a daily basis, do you realize how much the in game income would increase?

frozenveille wrote: »

The coin increases from quests is negligible. I think they increased them by a maximum of 500-1000 coins. It really doesn't offset the issue at all.

So start doing the Cube of Fate on a daily basis and make money that way. At least then you have a chance to make 1,000,000 or 5,000,000 (sometimes more) during each run (granted it is a random chance and failure to make that much is possible, but the chance still exists).

Or you know you could do your BH's and farm Fairy Keys, and then once you hit level 60 start farming Fairy Boxes and opening them to get Mirage Celestones and selling those to NPC Merchants for 10k a pop (thats more than most of the DQ Items were worth). That would be sure to get you some money. Heck if you sold them to players you might even get more than you would selling them to the NPC Merchants!

frozenveille wrote: »

Regardless of how one looks at it, though, everyone can agree this patch was for the negative, and if it goes unresolved, potentially game-killing. While it's still feasible for a newbie to make money (I was well aware catshopping mats would have profit yields), PWE needs to be aware of the severity of this problem. We can't just kick it under the carpet and say "There are still ways to make money, and problems won't happen until later on," and then just wait for "later on". There are clear, real, and severe consequences that WILL happen from this patch, and if left untreated, these consequences will occur, so why not fight for a fix now, which not only helps the new players and prevents population/economic decline, than wait until it's either almost or already too late?

Fighting for a fix is all well and good, but if your generalization is indeed correct, then really what kind of fix do you expect to have occur? Because ultimately it would be up to the people who code the game (i.e. the Dev's) to change the coding in our version. Or at least it would require that the people over here who installed the change get permission from the owner of the trademark to revert us back to the way we were before the change. Perfect World Entertainment legally can't make any change to the game without the permission of the parent company, at least that would be my understanding of trademark laws.

condo2009

Get off your high horse pwi is the best ever attitude. Go make a brand new acct, no stash, no helping it out, do all the quests and in 1 week when you're level 60 and broke, THEN say something. Until then , you are still missing the entire point.

TolanSky - Heavens Tear

condo2009 wrote: »

Get off your high horse pwi is the best ever attitude. Go make a brand new acct, no stash, no helping it out, do all the quests and in 1 week when you're level 60 and broke, THEN say something. Until then , you are still missing the entire point.

first off, if I did that, and did it properly, instead of half assing it by power-leveling the way so many people do these days... and I did it with the full intention of actually going in and proving that I can make money while doing it. I would not make level 60 within a week by any standards. Rather it would be more like a month at the best. Probably longer if I really did the job well. And that's assuming I don't play on any of my alt characters at the same time.

You see a large chunk of the problem that a lot of new players have, is that they go into the game, see the massive experience curve late in the game and assume that because of this, they NEED to power level. This is the wrong way of looking at it assuming you actually want to make money. The correct way to look at it is that the massive experience curve actually makes it more possible for you to actually turn a profit long term assuming you don't feel like spending massive amounts of RL money on the game.

This is made even more prominent if you utilize the Genie system to increase the amount of time it takes you to go from one level to the next thereby spending more time on each individual level allowing you to complete many more quests than you normally would have been capable of if you were just speeding through these same quests in an effort to complete the cultivations as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I think a problem a lot of people have is that they fail to notice that there is an absolutely massive amount of content in this game in the early levels. Unfortunately much of this early game content goes unplayed because people are in a massive rush to get to level 105 as quickly as possible instead of taking the time to actually play that content. I think if people actually played the content, instead of rushing things, they might be surprised at how much money they would make.

This is even more prominent on classes with extremely low maintenance costs such as the Venomancer and arguably the Cleric which can both avoid repair costs almost entirely. Though the Veno is better at avoiding maintenance costs because they really don't need to waste as much money on MP and HP Charms or Pots as do Clerics.

So basically the point is, if you actually took the time to play this game the way the designers intended you to play it, instead of finding every little method by which to get ahead as quickly as possible, then perhaps you wouldn't be financially strapped the way you seem to be.

stargatez13

TolanSky - Heavens Tear wrote: »

first off, if I did that, and did it properly, instead of half assing it by power-leveling the way so many people do these days... and I did it with the full intention of actually going in and proving that I can make money while doing it. I would not make level 60 within a week by any standards. Rather it would be more like a month at the best. Probably longer if I really did the job well. And that's assuming I don't play on any of my alt characters at the same time.

You see a large chunk of the problem that a lot of new players have, is that they go into the game, see the massive experience curve late in the game and assume that because of this, they NEED to power level. This is the wrong way of looking at it assuming you actually want to make money. The correct way to look at it is that the massive experience curve actually makes it more possible for you to actually turn a profit long term assuming you don't feel like spending massive amounts of RL money on the game.

This is made even more prominent if you utilize the Genie system to increase the amount of time it takes you to go from one level to the next thereby spending more time on each individual level allowing you to complete many more quests than you normally would have been capable of if you were just speeding through these same quests in an effort to complete the cultivations as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I think a problem a lot of people have is that they fail to notice that there is an absolutely massive amount of content in this game in the early levels. Unfortunately much of this early game content goes unplayed because people are in a massive rush to get to level 105 as quickly as possible instead of taking the time to actually play that content. I think if people actually played the content, instead of rushing things, they might be surprised at how much money they would make.

This is even more prominent on classes with extremely low maintenance costs such as the Venomancer and arguably the Cleric which can both avoid repair costs almost entirely. Though the Veno is better at avoiding maintenance costs because they really don't need to waste as much money on MP and HP Charms or Pots as do Clerics.

So basically the point is, if you actually took the time to play this game the way the designers intended you to play it, instead of finding every little method by which to get ahead as quickly as possible, then perhaps you wouldn't be financially strapped the way you seem to be.

sorry chap, people play this game to be entertained, not work at a 2nd job. you want to farm go ahead, but if it takes you a month to hit level 60, it means all you're doing is working and not playing. to me, that is NOT entertainment.

Xiaimine - Raging Tide

i was gonna stay out this, but i think perhaps a new player's pov should be added~
i've been playing I believe about 2-3 weeks. I'm level 51.
i have a little over 200k, and i'm not saying that's much at all, but why do i need the 500mil someone else has?
i do quests, i go kill mobs for the drops for my skills, and i sell what i can't use, usually to npcs.
i barely ever have to buy anything. the main thing i use my money for is skills.
if i really want something, i don't depend on the player market to get it if i can help it.
i'll buy gold before i possibly pay a mil for something.
and yeah i know, some you are arguing about free to play, and i only bought stuff because i like it, or can use it.
all i've bought with gold is 3 flyers (one for myself and two for my fiance), and packs.
and i could have done without that stuff, i made no coin profit from the gold.
and you don't need those things anyway~
my advice, as a noobie: bank 50k to 100k every once and a while, be a catshop if you wanna sell high.
i started after the dq items were nerfed, and i'm making money fine in my opinion.

TolanSky - Heavens Tear

stargatez13 wrote: »

sorry chap, people play this game to be entertained, not work at a 2nd job. you want to farm go ahead, but if it takes you a month to hit level 60, it means all you're doing is working and not playing. to me, that is NOT entertainment.

No, what it means is that you missed the point entirely of what a Role Playing Video Game actually is.

I am about to mention a Video Game that is older than all MMORPG's combined and as such is no longer in mass production. As such it is not a viable threat to the profits of Perfect World Entertainment or it's parent company. Because of this, if I am censored for mentioning it, I will not forgive whichever moderator, GM or whatever decides it prudent to censor what I am about to say. That said, here I go:

Way back in 1999 a Video Game company released a game on the Playstation ONE. This was before the release of the vast majority of the Video Games that would come to define the MMORPG genre. This game was in fact one in a long line of still very popular Video Role Playing Games. In fact it could be argued to be the single most popular Video Role Playing Game franchise in existence.

That said, this particular installment featured a peculiar ability that literally negated the ability to encounter any random monsters at all. This was known as the "Encounter - None" ability. It was easily obtained after completing a few minor missions in the game and fulfilling a rather paltry entry requirement.

That said, basically what the premise of the entire community that thrives on Power Leveling to get to max level as soon as possible amounts to is this: What if in that game you could have the Encounter - None ability right from the very instant you hit "New Game" and in so doing, still have the opportunity to actually achieve a victory over the entire game without fearing of being annihilated by the strongest bosses in the game.

Short conclusion is this: Powerleveling gimps you so badly it isn't even funny. Yes I have used it, but only after I knew what I was doing with the class in question. In otherwords I first took the class to level 70 or 80 the normal way before I started using power leveling in any fashion to start gaining levels.

The one exception to that rule I made, was when I made a stupid mistake on my Venomancer at around level 20 and skipped about 20 levels all at once. That was the stupidest thing I ever did, and I regret it every day I play that Venomancer. Because I never learned the vital skills that are learned by people playing a Venomancer through those levels. As such I have resolved not to repeat that mistake with her.

So I hope you can now appreciate where I am coming from when I state that I don't approve of rushing things in this or any game. I enjoy creativity in playing games as much as the next person. In playing many of those older games I set challenges for myself to see how difficult I can make the game without rushing through the game in such a hurry that I fail to enjoy the game in the process.

All you people who are rushing through the lower levels of perfect world in an effort to get to the PvP in the later levels faster are really doing, is failing to enjoy a perfectly enjoyable game on your journey to gaining PvP dominance.

That said, actually taking the time to enjoy the journey can actually reward you with profit if you know how to accomplish it. There are loads of lower level items that still exist in the game that you can still sell to NPC's for coins that will bring new money into the game's economy. That is afterall the only thing that is going to sustain the game's economy long term. That and questing actually.

Xiaimine - Raging Tide wrote: »

i was gonna stay out this, but i think perhaps a new player's pov should be added~
i've been playing I believe about 2-3 weeks. I'm level 51.
i have a little over 200k, and i'm not saying that's much at all, but why do i need the 500mil someone else has?
i do quests, i go kill mobs for the drops for my skills, and i sell what i can't use, usually to npcs.
i barely ever have to buy anything. the main thing i use my money for is skills.
if i really want something, i don't depend on the player market to get it if i can help it.
i'll buy gold before i possibly pay a mil for something.
and yeah i know, some you are arguing about free to play, and i only bought stuff because i like it, or can use it.
all i've bought with gold is 3 flyers (one for myself and two for my fiance), and packs.
and i could have done without that stuff, i made no coin profit from the gold.
and you don't need those things anyway~
my advice, as a noobie: bank 50k to 100k every once and a while, be a catshop if you wanna sell high.
i started after the dq items were nerfed, and i'm making money fine in my opinion.

At your level on my very first character, without having charged any money the first time through at least till I hit level 30 or so and bought my first aerogear... 200k would have been generous as a baseline starting value. That said my first character was a Seeker which was probably a stupid idea on my part, but still.

dancingpig

This game is dying, thank you GMs. You just made other mmo much eaiser to have new players. nice one PWI