Can the 6-month TW reset be reversed?

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

stuff

as for me, TW-Reward should be 0 coin

so tw is clearly for the sake of TW and not for coin, would solve many problems
i think more factions would stop going for a crytal bait, because there is nothing they gain from it

i know for sure, we are not in for the pay, hence you can see our leader would always bid on #2 ;o

the alt faction is a reaction to 6-month reset, since it was clear we wouldnt get as much tw as we used to have (and we are addicted to tw)

its power varies from day to day. when mains are having tw, only a few leftovers are in fight ofc, if you like to fight 20 ppl instead of 70, go ahead - i hate tw on sin anyways~
archer is not 100/r8 yet Q_Q

Malei - Sanctuary

Ariella_ - Lost City wrote: »

Anyways. There's no reason to punish the top factions with this stupid reset. Call me a QQer. Its going to get reversed I guarantee it. Top faction members will eventually get bored of constant crystal walks and just quit playing. For most members of top factions, especially on PvE servers, TW is the only reason they continue to play. And for those of you wondering why this will cause the reset to be reversed, top faction members are the biggest CSers. We all know you middle tier factions are not on PWs priority list. The top dawgs will win out eventually...or Ill quit from boredom. Whatever works I guess.

That's the dumbest thing I've seen said in this entire thread. You really think PWI cares if you or any other r9 player quits? They've already taken your money, your 'investment' into your character that you can't ever, ever get back, and like Takeva said, they already proved they didn't give two craps about you or any other heavy cash shopper when they placed this in. Its about time they showed some kind of dedication to the more casual players of PWI. TW is an instance that everyone should enjoy, not just the 'best' people that swipe their credit cards/no life the hell out of instances with their 101 5.0 game-breaking sins/BMs.

In fact, please do get bored enough and quit. Make more room for the majority of the PWI population that does enjoy this switch to play the game; give us less lag to deal with. Welcome to the minority. Not every big CSer is in a 'top' faction, and I can pretty much promise you that your absence won't hurt PWI's pockets.

Silly player thinking that his/her silly QQing means **** to PWI. . . b:chuckle

jabq

If people are not having fun in their TW, join the sanctuary server b:bye. We have awesome TW every week b:pleased.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No you are idiot you just prove it. And my gear is R8 +10(weapon) + 2 pieces of recasted R8+ cube neck and warsoul belt + cape and helm nirvana(+5attack lv.)
I do in TW one shot players except R9 of course. I'm physic and just my attack level is 61 with blessing now.
But I understand that some people don't want to spend so much money to "have" fun.
RETARDD.

If you're not an idiot, you wouldn't have assumed this:

So you saying only hard cash shoppers have to right to have fun from TW right?

I'll put it simply so your small mind can comprehend: TW was the last thing end-game chars really had to do. End-game competition does not fight back anymore.

It was changed for crybabies like you who QQ about everything. And not surprisingly, you're happy.

/derp

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well i can explain

lets say faction #1 can pull about 130 people every TW night
and #2 faction about 110 people

the nab/alt factions pull about 20 each

so the two best factions equal 12 minor factions

as it was stated before, the middle tier factions are very rare
not many factions that can pull 60-70 ppl for tw



..

i have two alts in tw factions

one is the alt faction of #1 dw faction,
unfortunately the #2 faction of our server seems to be demoralized by loosing multiple times in a row, as of now they hunt down the lands of our alt faction to stay on the map instead of attacking us for 2 tws per week (we had 2 #1vs#2 tws a week pre-reset )



the other faction im in is at nab-lvl, 20-30 people attend tw max
its fun to some extend vs equals.. but its not even remotely close to 80vs80 in terms of fun

pulling cata on my la-bm lalala
id rather shrink around on my r8 wiz fighting r9 archers Q_Q

Our #1 faction has an alt faction as well and the number 2 faction did go after them the first few weeks, but then they lost to the alt faction b:chuckle and now they aren't the number 2 faction anymore, probably 3rd or 4th, hard to say since them and one other haven't fought each other. and no I don't consider our alt faction as #2 probably somewhere 3-5

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

If you're not an idiot, you wouldn't have assumed this:



I'll put it simply so your small mind can comprehend: TW was the last thing end-game chars really had to do. End-game competition does not fight back anymore.

It was changed for crybabies like you who QQ about everything. And not surprisingly, you're happy.

/derp

Please tell me what high-level characters that have damn good gear (cash-shopped or not) are going to spend on this game now?

There's a reason the chairs at McDonalds are unpadded, and the A/C is kept low. Because the last thing they want you do do is be comfortable and hang out awhile.

They want you to spend your money, and get out, so someone else can come in and spend their money.

And here you are, constantly lamenting how PWI doesn't challenge their 100+ players enough. Unless you're spending RL coin to buy gold for R8/R9, you're a parasite, a load on the server.

And if you're here crying about it you're a waste of bandwidth.

\seriously

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

If you're not an idiot, you wouldn't have assumed this:



I'll put it simply so your small mind can comprehend: TW was the last thing end-game chars really had to do. End-game competition does not fight back anymore.

It was changed for crybabies like you who QQ about everything. And not surprisingly, you're happy.

/derp

The main difference between me and you is, I'M NOT SELFISH like you. I want to have fun for many people. You want to have fun just for few people and for yourself.

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide

God this is a terrible thread now... Flame wars b:shutup

Quilue - Sanctuary

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Please tell me what high-level characters that have damn good gear (cash-shopped or not) are going to spend on this game now?

There's a reason the chairs at McDonalds are unpadded, and the A/C is kept low. Because the last thing they want you do do is be comfortable and hang out awhile.

They want you to spend your money, and get out, so someone else can come in and spend their money.

And here you are, constantly lamenting how PWI doesn't challenge their 100+ players enough. Unless you're spending RL coin to buy gold for R8/R9, you're a parasite, a load on the server.

And if you're here crying about it you're a waste of bandwidth.

\seriously

From my observations, the biggest spenders on the server have always been the biggest spenders. 4 sock immac TT90 -> Nirvana -> Rank 8 before sale -> Rank 9 -> Rank 9 recast -> whatever else they come up with.

There are players that now have +12 Nirvana as their "fun gear for alts" because now they have R9. There are players who have R9 on their alts. When such players TW or PK, they will spend on charms unlike your second rate TWs where half the players are uncharmed. When there are orb sales, such players will work to +12 that new cape or G16 cube neck. There is no end to spending for competitive players.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

Wow what a game- competetive spending. Haha, I can spend more then you lol an pawn u.

Funny thing is that there are pretty clear tiers within the game atm on my server the recast 9 guys are on top followed by the rank 9 all +12 guys/warsoul guys(except atleast one of the warsouls also has recast 9 followed by the rank 9 +12 weapon and +10 all rest followed by etc etc.

It is amazing how much people are will ing to spend to prove they can spend more then the next guy/girl

X_trigger_X - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

From my observations, the biggest spenders on the server have always been the biggest spenders. 4 sock immac TT90 -> Nirvana -> Rank 8 before sale -> Rank 9 -> Rank 9 recast -> whatever else they come up with.

There are players that now have +12 Nirvana as their "fun gear for alts" because now they have R9. There are players who have R9 on their alts. When such players TW or PK, they will spend on charms unlike your second rate TWs where half the players are uncharmed. When there are orb sales, such players will work to +12 that new cape or G16 cube neck. There is no end to spending for competitive players.

And then they realise they can get exactly the same for free on different servers with more active tw and pk, and wonder why they didn't take that holiday to the Med b:surrender

StarStrukkk - Heavens Tear

The point of the 6 month reset is to give some other people a chance at TWing, I am sure you know that a lot of factions now require "applications" and need to meet certain standards ei, gear, TW experience. People won't get a chance if only the big TW factions keep control of all the land.
Also, I don't think the bigger TW factions are avoiding each other, atleast not in our server.
within the 2nd/3rd week, the bigger factions were already at each other.

victor1337

The solution to making TW more competitive is to discourage guilds from owning multiple lands and hence solving the current problem with having one dominant faction. This can be achieved very simply.

For each land you own after the first one, you suffer a 10% penalty to all your stats including crystal HP, tower damage/hp, etc until you reach the maximum reduction of 90%. This is really simple to code in as a debuff (not removable) as it only applies in an instance. You also lose income per land owned, so second gets you 8m, third 6, etc until land actually starts costing you money so your guild could own multiple lands and receive no TW money.

Also, have all TW's start at 8pm on Saturdays no matter how many battles are lined up for one faction- even just this suggestion would cause the number one faction to lose a few every now and then (but doesn't really solve the problem of uncompetitive/no tw for most).

Of course, with the crazy 'you must have a large faction to be able to complete guild base quests for mats' the above suggestion won't get too many to leave, but it would make for a much more open and competitive TW map instead of the current situation of 'our 200 glitched cubi spenders are QQing as they now have less income from tw and don't get to steam roll the next faction'

Quilue - Sanctuary

Factions would simply grab a certain amount of land and sit there. People would just sit there and defend, and if no one attacks, then you have no TW activity. Better idea would be more than 3 fights per slot.

Factions that have more land should be prepared to defend more land. The costs of fighting multiple decent battles in itself should limit a faction's willingness to own the whole map. Unfortunately, apparently some not-so-active servers can't mount a successful effort against the biggest faction. Then the problem is that the game is dead. Fix the game-is-dead problem too, and you would have good TW.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Please tell me what high-level characters that have damn good gear (cash-shopped or not) are going to spend on this game now?

There's a reason the chairs at McDonalds are unpadded, and the A/C is kept low. Because the last thing they want you do do is be comfortable and hang out awhile.

They want you to spend your money, and get out, so someone else can come in and spend their money.

And here you are, constantly lamenting how PWI doesn't challenge their 100+ players enough. Unless you're spending RL coin to buy gold for R8/R9, you're a parasite, a load on the server.

And if you're here crying about it you're a waste of bandwidth.

\seriously

you tell people to quit, lol
want to play alone? where to get all those new players? - oh wait you perfer 10vs10 over 80vs80 anyways ;p

the servers are not laaging at all, thus i cant see how anyone is a waste of bandwidth
cant blame other players for your pc/isp

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The main difference between me and you is, I'M NOT SELFISH like you. I want to have fun for many people. You want to have fun just for few people and for yourself.

actually when you look at it.
you are acting selfish just as much as he does
the same motivation

you want to tw and you dont give a faak on "the others"



the others are the only variable between us (us, in terms of i support michael_dark here :O)


while i dont give a shiit on low factions you dont give a shiit on top factions
herp derp easy pie point of view thingie


so... a ideal solution would benefit both sides
conclusion: neither the prior, nor the current system is ideal


before:
the best people of lower guilds leave them to join a top tier faction and participate in highly organized competitive tw

now:
the people from top tier factions make alts and join lower guilds to do unorganized low numbers tw


something wrong here..


i want 3 hour tw on my wizard back ;o
more dreamweaver top gear people should join Dynasty ;o

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you tell people to quit, lol
want to play alone? where to get all those new players? - oh wait you perfer 10vs10 over 80vs80 anyways ;p

the servers are not laaging at all, thus i cant see how anyone is a waste of bandwidth
cant blame other players for your pc/isp



actually when you look at it.
you are acting selfish just as much as he does
the same motivation

you want to tw and you dont give a faak on "the others"



the others are the only variable between us (us, in terms of i support michael_dark here :O)


while i dont give a shiit on low factions you dont give a shiit on top factions
herp derp easy pie point of view thingie


so... a ideal solution would benefit both sides
conclusion: neither the prior, nor the current system is ideal


before:
the best people of lower guilds leave them to join a top tier faction and participate in highly organized competitive tw

now:
the people from top tier factions make alts and join lower guilds to do unorganized low numbers tw


something wrong here..


i want 3 hour tw on my wizard back ;o
more dreamweaver top gear people should join Dynasty ;o

Just simple question. How many is TOP geared players? And how many is MID geared? It's mean the MID geared players is much, much more, than TOP geared. So majority of players has Mid gear. For these is 6 moths resetting TW map much better than never resetting and all map owned by 2 factions.
Now every faction even mid geared can have some land and gather benefit from it. Are you jealous?

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

From my observations, the biggest spenders on the server have always been the biggest spenders. 4 sock immac TT90 -> Nirvana -> Rank 8 before sale -> Rank 9 -> Rank 9 recast -> whatever else they come up with.

That may well be true for some. However, if it's so boring for 100+ players, why do they continue to dump money into the game? It's one or the other - either there's enough to do to justify spending $$ equipping alts to R9, or it's so boring they all quit and are reduced to trolling the forums.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

There are players that now have +12 Nirvana as their "fun gear for alts" because now they have R9. There are players who have R9 on their alts. When such players TW or PK, they will spend on charms unlike your second rate TWs where half the players are uncharmed. When there are orb sales, such players will work to +12 that new cape or G16 cube neck. There is no end to spending for competitive players.

You know, I understand you're trying to promote the idea that some high-level players are going to continue to spend money. If they do, then they have come up with a reason why, and don't need PWI to do anything special for them.

And I respectfully suggest you shove your "second-rate TW's where half the players are unchamed" in an appropriate orfice. A 3 hour battle between factions of the same strength, charmed and skillful, is no less a game than the big factions TWing via VISA card.

And that statement does nothing to dispel the argument that the only people who *don't* like the reset are the super-high-level R9 +12 people who are angry they've been forced to fight their way thru the rabble again.

Was that what you were trying to accomplish?

Redmenace - Heavens Tear

Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now instead of having only 2 or 3 Well organized TW factions your going to start having more and more well organized TW factions because they are learning from the pros instead of the pros all flocking to the Top Tier factions and saying **** everyone else.

QF F'ing T

Quilue - Sanctuary

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You know, I understand you're trying to promote the idea that some high-level players are going to continue to spend money. If they do, then they have come up with a reason why, and don't need PWI to do anything special for them.

And I respectfully suggest you shove your "second-rate TW's where half the players are unchamed" in an appropriate orfice. A 3 hour battle between factions of the same strength, charmed and skillful, is no less a game than the big factions TWing via VISA card.

And that statement does nothing to dispel the argument that the only people who *don't* like the reset are the super-high-level R9 +12 people who are angry they've been forced to fight their way thru the rabble again.

Was that what you were trying to accomplish?

I've TWed with a medium-caliber faction for over 2 years, and the simple fact is a lot of players wouldn't show up with charms, 3 hour battle or no. A lot of people didn't even like PvP, they simply showed up because they were supporting the faction. People refusing to charm became especially apparent as long fights "between factions of equal strength" continued week after week last reset and charm costs were becoming significant. In a lot of those TW, the ones that came charmed and prepared with apoc were often players that either ended up in more competitive factions or were alts from those factions.

I don't rate TW by gear, but on the organization and competitiveness of the faction during TW. It is the competitiveness that drives players to get better gear and show up with charms and apoc. Factions with such players inevitably become powerful on the map. That's why it was never about whether TW should make big factions or small factions or "rich players" or "poor players" happy, it's about making competitive players happy. The "big" faction I'm currently in started with 30 players and is barely 1 year old. How come they're now too "big" or "rich" to be beaten? It's just competitiveness of the players.

Azura - Lost City

Ariella_ - Lost City wrote: »

From my observations it doesn't seem to be "increasing competitiveness" at all. Sure, there's more factions on the map, but how many are having fun competitive TW's? The answer is barely any of them, if any at all.

The upper tier factions all avoid each other, except the clear and concise #1, which always goes for the #2 faction. The #2 fac, in an effort to keep their land count up, will then attack bottom feeder after bottom feeder, to delay their demise. #3 4 and 5 will also all attack bottom feeders to pump up their land counts. These TW's are always crystal walks, or crystal bashes, whatever the cool kids call em now a days. Here's why, when faction #2 gets attacked, other factions think "hey, we might be able to get some free land." So they also bid on #2, but #2, looking to minimize the losses, ends up no showing the TW with faction #1 and face rolling the weaker factions that attack them. When #2 attacks the next day its also an unfair fight, they're going to attack the weakest faction they can to ensure a win. All factions involved end up getting crappy TW's, that aren't fun for anyone, and all end in under 20-25 minutes. And once the bottom feeders are all taken care of and out of the picture, surprise, another reset a month later. How fun.

The middle tier factions, which arguably are the only factions who get fun TW's in this entire scenario, will usually find someone about their strength, because the upper factions are out of their league, no point attacking them, unless you're trying to steal land, in which you're just going to get roflstomped anyways when that faction no shows the stronger upper tier faction, and the lower factions have all been bid on. There aren't many "middle tier" factions in a server, much like how there isn't a large middle class in america, the same rules apply. Power attracts more power, causing the majority of a servers top players to migrate to a couple factions, a handful maybe. And the other factions are too weak as a unit to be a real threat. Causing them to be stuck in poverty forever, controlling maybe 1-2 lands for a couple weeks until someone notices them and takes them out for good.

The lower tier factions will always get crystal bashed. Sure, for about the first month or two they're going to attack each other and have fun, but they disappear quick as the big boys establish their territory. Causing the remaining little fish to get crushed in defends against the stronger factions, and attacks are useless, the neighboring factions are usually top tier factions they don't stand a chance against anyways, and if they would stand a chance, they'd probably get outbid by a bigger, stronger faction anyways.

The point, the top factions never attack each other, because if they lose too much land it would hurt recruiting, the bottom tier factions get swallowed up quickly, and once we finally get to have some fun meaningful TW's boom, it's time for another reset. Drama is nonexistent. As much as we hate it, it does create motivation to go to TW in the first place. Maybe 2-3 factions have fun TW's, and those are the few middle tier factions on each server.

So all that is the problem, what is the solution then? Do you mean that the solution is not resetting the map every 6 months? If yes, then how is that going to help?

MiniST - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've TWed with a medium-caliber faction for over 2 years, and the simple fact is a lot of players wouldn't show up with charms, 3 hour battle or no. A lot of people didn't even like PvP, they simply showed up because they were supporting the faction. People refusing to charm became especially apparent as long fights "between factions of equal strength" continued week after week last reset and charm costs were becoming significant. In a lot of those TW, the ones that came charmed and prepared with apoc were often players that either ended up in more competitive factions or were alts from those factions.

I don't rate TW by gear, but on the organization and competitiveness of the faction during TW. It is the competitiveness that drives players to get better gear and show up with charms and apoc. Factions with such players inevitably become powerful on the map. That's why it was never about whether TW should make big factions or small factions or "rich players" or "poor players" happy, it's about making competitive players happy. The "big" faction I'm currently in started with 30 players and is barely 1 year old. How come they're now too "big" or "rich" to be beaten? It's just competitiveness of the players.

If it was all about the competitiveness of the players, all the "competitive" players would leave the faction to join other factions to keep TW competitive. There is a difference between not wanting to lose and competition.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

If it was all about the competitiveness of the players, all the "competitive" players would leave the faction to join other factions to keep TW competitive. There is a difference between not wanting to lose and competition.

This is currently an issue on multiple servers. The "not wanting to lose" and "not wanting to risk". I guess some people just like their 5 minute boring steamrolls.

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

So all that is the problem, what is the solution then? Do you mean that the solution is not resetting the map every 6 months? If yes, then how is that going to help?

Incentives. There is zero incentive to join any faction for TW other than "To TW". TW payouts don't happen as the funds either go to building the faction base, or aren't even enough coin to cover the Barb's charms.

At 24 lands, with a few of them the higher payout lands, you could afford half of the field's charm and pot costs (in a decent TW) for the week. So really, no matter what, you're losing money by TWing.

Typically, if people are going to throw money at something, they want a sense of accomplishment from it. That means joining a winning TW faction. Eventually everyone packs into the "Winningest" faction (Aka #1), with the people who don't like the "Winningest" faction going to another faction (Typically, #2, sometimes #3).

The "medium" and etc level factions do get some fun TWs, but get horribly smashed by the upper tier factions.

But are the middle tier ones "Real" TWs - where you have to rely on communication, strategy, skill, gear, and come prepared? No, not really having been a part of 6 of them now, on both the win and lose side. Either it's a cluster-bleep of funny & sad proportions, or they get smashed by a higher level faction. That's not really fun, an experience, or a "Real" TW. Thats a bunch of people running around going "Whadda I do?" and facerolling their keyboard.

Some are "Real" TWs evenly matched with lower levels/less uber gear/less people though. But its rare.

You have to wonder what would happen if people combine happily, or if people go for the fun TW instead of the guaranteed win TW factions.

But yea, incentives. If everyone in the faction got more $ from lands, there would less reason to pack into a 200 person with 100 R9s faction, and instead join somewhere you can get more $ or items.

10m was a big deal back in the day. Nowadays to the R9s, Plat Charms being 4m each, and Pots costing a small fortune, it's pocket change.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But are the middle tier ones "Real" TWs - where you have to rely on communication, strategy, skill, gear, and come prepared? No, not really having been a part of 6 of them now, on both the win and lose side. Either it's a cluster-bleep of funny & sad proportions, or they get smashed by a higher level faction. That's not really fun, an experience, or a "Real" TW. Thats a bunch of people running around going "Whadda I do?" and facerolling their keyboard.

Some are "Real" TWs evenly matched with lower levels/less uber gear/less people though. But its rare.

Isn't a large part of that experience though? If you're in a mid-tw faction and never really have competitive TWs how are you supposed to develop these strategies. A lot of the top tier factions have people who have been doing it since server start. They don't just have money on their side, anyone can buy rank 9, they have experience fighting long wars. Their leaders learned what works and what doesn't. They are organized, winning, machines. I think this change will have to last through at least a couple of resets to see if it works or not. There is bound to be some upset at the beginning of a change such as this one. I know the TWs I did participate in with a low-tier we were completely unprepared We were in the old system. Just experiencing it for the first time. Just when we were beginning to learn a little bit, we got steam rolled by a bigger faction. Who promptly got steamrolled by the biggest factions. And that was all she wrote for pretty much all low-mid tiers.

Do you think that TW has improved in the mid-tier factions? If so, why not? Don't you think eventually more competitive TWs will develop as a bigger pool of players start developing strategies? And new people enter the mix?

Just curious. Like I said, I haven't had much experience.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Sagek - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now instead of having only 2 or 3 Well organized TW factions your going to start having more and more well organized TW factions because they are learning from the pros instead of the pros all flocking to the Top Tier factions and saying **** everyone else.

The problem with this is that people in these smaller factions do not want to really TW. That's why they can only muster 10-20 people for TW. I would not spend my time teaching 10-20 people to TW because it would be a waste. Those 10-20 people should just join a real TW faction. Too many people in these Family/Fun/TW factions just do not give a **** about TW enough to commit.

knightsdarksoul

everyone should just leave the top factions so all tw's are mid-tiered , everyone would get fun then.
only ones complaining are the top factions rolling everyone in 5mins, well tough , outside of fun TW is meaningless now so no need to be in top factions just for e-peens sake.

people want to be the best but they fail to understand that it comes with drawbacks, and then it's everyone else's fault but their own.
pwi's fault for 6month resets, other factions fault for not gearing up and spending the income of a 3rd world country on gear, no it's your fault , since if you were more worried about fun than being in the best then the fun is easy to find, just maybe not where you want it to be.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

There's a bunch of BS in this thread now...

Too much to refute, really, even though it's blatantly obvious how bad it is.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

"E=Quilue - Sanctuary;16624621]
I don't rate TW by gear, but on the organization and competitiveness of the faction during TW.[/QUOTE]

Organization is the deciding factor between guild of similar strength. But when you have a guild where 90% of the BM/Barbs has less HP then an opponent's archer. And your own archer does less then 1/4 of the damage of the opponent archer. No amount of organization is going to help you.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Isn't a large part of that experience though? If you're in a mid-tw faction and never really have competitive TWs how are you supposed to develop these strategies. A lot of the top tier factions have people who have been doing it since server start. They don't just have money on their side, anyone can buy rank 9, they have experience fighting long wars. Their leaders learned what works and what doesn't. They are organized, winning, machines. I think this change will have to last through at least a couple of resets to see if it works or not. There is bound to be some upset at the beginning of a change such as this one. I know the TWs I did participate in with a low-tier we were completely unprepared We were in the old system. Just experiencing it for the first time. Just when we were beginning to learn a little bit, we got steam rolled by a bigger faction. Who promptly got steamrolled by the biggest factions. And that was all she wrote for pretty much all low-mid tiers.

Do you think that TW has improved in the mid-tier factions? If so, why not? Don't you think eventually more competitive TWs will develop as a bigger pool of players start developing strategies? And new people enter the mix?

Just curious. Like I said, I haven't had much experience.

"Just when we were beginning to learn a little bit, we got steam rolled by a bigger faction. Who promptly got steamrolled by the biggest factions. And that was all she wrote for pretty much all low-mid tiers."

And thats the problem. You never got a chance to really learn.

But to give my 2 coins at your direct question: Alt Wise, "Mid-Low" grade factions (I really dont like that term but its the best we got) - No.

Having TWed with one "mid grade" faction 3 times - at the start, mid way between now, and 2 weeks ago, absolutely not. They're either fighting people who are worse off, or 5 minute TWs where they get steamrolled. Even the TWs I was not there for, that was the case each time - steamroll one way or the other. I think the faction has given up on TWs and doesn't care anymore, cause theres no real use to going. There's no fun in 5 minute steamrolls.

Another faction just could not get it together organizational wise, even with good planning. People just could not stay on task, show up, forgot stuff, didnt come prepared. TW is not for them - even tho they had the numbers and were not geared that bad. Not their cup of tea.

The other faction I've TWed with are just way out of their league, but were organized decently and had decent gear - just did not have the numbers to put up a fight. They were facerolled by bigger numbers and a horribad plan - regardless of outgearing and outplaying them. I watched one of two of the opposing BMs not even Roar once, and constantly use his purge pole. He didn't purge anyone to my knowledge. That faction then won twice in a row by facerolling two noob factions. They then got completely embarassed and wiped off the map by a low grade faction who were organized, had a plan, and had the numbers - because they had people leading from or who learned from the prime TW factions.

Can people improve? Yes. Are there some "mid-grade" factions out there that aren't bad. Totally.

Do the "mid-grade" new to TW people really learn anything? I'd say 95%, maybe more - no. They're learn more in 2-3 TWs with a big TW faction. I know I did.

I guess you'd have to experience it on multiple levels. A decently matched "Big TW Faction" vs "Big TW faction" is an amazing amount of fun. Like I look forward to a few things on the weekend besides sleeping in, and a good TW is one of them. There is no "low-mid" grade experience that compares to it. It's fast paced, theres not much time to **** around, people have to communicate, play their class well, etc.

Low-Mid you can half-(bleep) your character, not communicate, have everyone NOT go by plans, hell you can have a wizard pull a cat and be fine. Charms and pots? Who cares.

I ran around as a level 85 Barb gacking level 99+'s for almost 20 minutes before I died in one TW. And we were fighting a TW faction with "Experience" - they had won their previous 2 TWs, and 5 or 6 in the past (According to them. The rankings page always seems off).

Alot of it seems to be either a 5 minute gank fest till the crystal dies, or a long drawn out collision of accidents and "what? huh?". There is not much learning on those levels if you get 1-2 "Real TWs" on that level every 6 months. I've looked at those factions' gear, and know for a fact that a lot of them can definitely play (better than me at PvP for sure). If they joined a "Big TW faction" or all joined together to form a new one, TW may be better.

But instead most servers have the #1 faction that facerolls everyone in under 15 mins, maybe 2-3 other factions that are kinda, but not really well matched, and then a bunch of mismatched "Low-Mid" factions that pretty much might get to experience a well done TW 1 or 2, if lucky 4 times a year.

If your idea of fun is 8 deaths in an FF run where the cleric nukes instead of heals...the 6 month change is for you. If running FF with as little numbers as possible, no charm ticks, no deaths, and pushing as fast and hard as you can is your can of soup, then you'd prolly prefer an alternative.

But you really have to experience it for yourself (the good TWs) to become an addict tbh. I went a full weekend without a good TW and just about had to go on methadone.

_Smiz_ - Heavens Tear

Bla Bla, ****** Bla. The tw's now are more fun then they ever were. I've been around since this game started. Even if you look at the posts in this forum thread....more people are for the change then against it. These supposed top tier players are just pissed they are not the center of attention anymore.

@ michael_dark ~ go get laid dude, your lack of female attention is blatantly obvious.

This change creates more knowledge of tw throughout the server, which in turn creates MORE actual strategic factions that know how to tw. That being, those of you complaining that all of these wars are just uncharmed noobs running around doing nothing, IS BENEFITTING YOU IN THE LONG RUN! By adding more players and more factions that are capable of competing against YOU.

And for the record, I have 3 alts in tw factions considered "mid tier" all of them are charmed, have apoth, and actually listen enough to be strategic in their attacks. How do you expect the other, oh, 90% of the server to ever get better, if they can't even make it off the platform before they get one shotted?

So, to reiterate my first post GTFO if ya don't like it! YOU are now the minority for once xD

*throws out the troll nuggets* b:laugh

Quilue - Sanctuary

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

If it was all about the competitiveness of the players, all the "competitive" players would leave the faction to join other factions to keep TW competitive. There is a difference between not wanting to lose and competition.

Why have a new leader and officership when you like what you have? I was with Amp for over 2 years, so don't try to pin "not wanting to lose" on me. If I want TW right now, my alt would go into a smaller fac, and that is what people do anyway. People don't want to join other factions because the faction full of competitive players is what they want and where they are. Simple as that.