Wtf is a full attack cleric?

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

5 aps or wut? Im confused...

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

5 aps or wut?

Had to lol at that.

Basically the FAC is a term from 2008/9 for clerics that leveled attack skills first and preferred to attack more than heal. It's pretty much an outdated term that a few nubs find and ask about when going through the guides. Some say FAC have more vit so they could take hits if they pull aggro, some say they have more magic so they could have stronger heals if they get aggro as well as stronger attacks. There's no set build other than the standard cleric "add enough vit to cover yourself, the rest into magic."

It was more of an issue when levels 1-70 took more than an evening and you had to decided to level an attack or a heal if you weren't gonna get enough spirit for the other skill for a week or two.

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Had to lol at that.

Basically the FAC is a term from 2008/9 for clerics that leveled attack skills first and preferred to attack more than heal. It's pretty much an outdated term that a few nubs find and ask about when going through the guides. Some say FAC have more vit so they could take hits if they pull aggro, some say they have more magic so they could have stronger heals if they get aggro as well as stronger attacks. There's no set build other than the standard cleric "add enough vit to cover yourself, the rest into magic."

It was more of an issue when levels 1-70 took more than an evening and you had to decided to level an attack or a heal if you weren't gonna get enough spirit for the other skill for a week or two.

Oh. I was confused because there is no varying builds for clerics imo lol. So I was like wtf? Full mag? LA/HA? FIST?!?!

I can see how it would apply back in '09 though. Clerics are healers. So yea. :x

X$exyFox - Heavens Tear

ImNotFiveAps - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh. I was confused because there is no varying builds for clerics imo lol. So I was like wtf? Full mag? LA/HA? FIST?!?!

I can see how it would apply back in '09 though. Clerics are healers. So yea. :x

This is very true. I've had a lvl 79 Cleric and people came asking me what the best Cleric build was, but the only thing I can say is: There is no real Cleric build. It's all about your own preferences.
I could tell you what I prefer, if that helps. Whatever build you are gonna use, I would always add 1 Str every 2 lvls. Then the Vit, and that's the part where you have to use your own preferences. I would say, never go Pure Mag. Pure Mag Clerics won't survive long in BHs/TTs/FFs and such, because of the fail Barbs nowadays. For me there are 2 ways possible: 1, add 1 Vit every 2 lvls and 2, keep your Vit equal to your lvl. So when you are lvl 46, you need 46 Vit, at lvl 73, 73 Vit etc. And then it is just about adding all the rest to Mag.
Oh, right, and I would say, go AA.
I am a heal Cleric, so if you don't wanna be a heal Cleric, but battle, then I can't help you.

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

duh a full attack cleric is all about aps and vana fists, **** the heals b:avoid *sarcasme*
basically what sakubatou said =P

StacysMum - Dreamweaver

Full attack clerics hunt the other other white meat (lvl 30 - 50)
When we are caught we pretend to be practising rezzing.

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

StacysMum - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Full attack clerics hunt the other other white meat (lvl 30 - 50)
When we are caught we pretend to be practising rezzing.

Lol , that reminds me of a cleric i saw in Silverpool Rezzing a guy then killing him again , twice or something

A cleric needs to lvl all skills to be competitive and able to cope with any situation.

Ofc some take this too literally and even lvl thunderball

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol , that reminds me of a cleric i saw in Silverpool Rezzing a guy then killing him again , twice or something

A cleric needs to lvl all skills to be competitive and able to cope with any situation.

Ofc some take this too literally and even lvl thunderball

Hey ! thunderball looks pretteh ! <

Swannx - Archosaur

Thunderball is a pretty underrated skill, ijs. I, myself, use it all the time, PvE and PvP.

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Swannx - Archosaur wrote: »

Thunderball is a pretty underrated skill, ijs. I, myself, use it all the time, PvE and PvP.

I think the real purpose of Thunderball is to deal small amounts of damage over time so that we don't pull aggro (so 20k over 15 seconds vs 20k damage in 1 hit) and endganger ourselves. That way we can attack and heal at the same time and not worry about aggro. However, as the game has advanced gear has gotten better the damage output difference has become more exagerated between classes. Not saying cleric damage isn't great but if you're pulling aggro over most other classes than there is a major difference between your gear and theres.

Thunderball is pretty much useless, lol. It's nice enough during pvp when you are trying to race a charm I guess.

StacysMum - Dreamweaver

Is a good skill to poke without actually killing someone or possibly ticking their charm. Alternatively you could just call them out to a fight of kill them no questions asked XD

Annonrae - Sanctuary

X$exyFox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would say, never go Pure Mag. Pure Mag Clerics won't survive long in BHs/TTs/FFs and such, because of the fail Barbs nowadays.

Long post ahead.

Gotta comment on this. My observations are based on PVE, and I don't PK/TW, so I'm only commenting on that aspect of the game.

I agree that during the "lower" levels, say up to lvl 90 or lvl 95, adding some vit will definitely work toward keeping your cleric alive longer. I had 50 Vit base until I restatted at level 90, and I haven't regretted it.

My cleric now has 3 Vit base. With addons, she has 17 Vit total, at level 101. Adding in gear ( Rank8, Warsoul Helm, Lunar Glade Robe, TT90 Boots & Oracle Sleeves, weapon refined to +7, all other gear refined +5 for now, +15 mag tome, with shards added in ), that comes out to ~4800 HP unbuffed, and that's more than enough to run *anything* in the game if you can grab a barb buff somewhere, and often even if you can't get a barb buff. My gear is laughably weak compared to some of the clerics I've seen running around on Sanctuary, but it is enough for every last PVE aspect of the game.

Seriously. Nirvana, Lunar, Warsong, FCC, BH100, Delta - the only thing I've had problems with 100+ was in 3-3 when we still had BH in there and the group I was with decided to do the 3-3 endboss for fun. I was oneshot, but frankly, that boss did so much damage to me and everyone else in the squad, including the barb, that another 50 or even 100 Vit wouldn't have kept me alive.

The more mag you have, the larger your natural mana pool unless you specifically gear/shard for mana, and the better your magic attack and heals. Telling someone to "never go pure mag" is a little bit misleading, in my opinion.

It comes down to whether or not you can afford good gear at endgame.

Especially at endgame, where clerics sometimes - and lately, more and more often - aren't needed in a squad unless it's for buffs and the occasional IH on a tank, and people start to get weird about wanting any casters in a squad, a high magic attack might snag you an otherwise unavailable spot in a Nirvana run. Or, for that matter, it might snag you a spot in a All-Caster Nirvana run.

/two cents

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

Annonrae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Long post ahead....

The more mag you have, the larger your natural mana pool unless you specifically gear/shard for mana, and the better your magic attack and heals. Telling someone to "never go pure mag" is a little bit misleading, in my opinion...

I agree, at least for PvE. Basically vitality on a cleric is only needed to cover for lack of skill or to give a comfort level if you are not paying attention. I went pure magic and never had any problems, in fact if there was a second cleric in squad I normally ended up covering for them, too.

Basically, I always considered vit clerics squishier because they had such weak heals. The payoff of a few hp doesn't cover the loss of effectiveness in their own heals so they have to attack more and heal more to keep up with a pure cleric.[/.

As a tank I can always tell within about 10 stats how much vit and magic a cleric has. I'm not rude enough to kick a cleric because they have weak heals unless they're completely ineffective, but vit clerics do make me realize what I can do without heals if I'm doing them with their weak heals.

PriestRain - Raging Tide

<---vit cleric .___________.

Yeah my biggest mistake, cuz i first started to play, then i found out of forums...
And by the time i learned pure clerics are way better, i had 56 base vit QQ, and on top of that i still have them..and gonna have until i get r8...(not cser)

But still, from my personal experience, vit or no vit, it only applys on how person plays the game. If u are..hmm lets say 500mag/54str(or more in mag) and...lets say have r9+12/jods... and still don't know what is difference when u attack with cyclone magic class, or plume shot for HA class.....I think that explained..

Yes i agree with pure build, cuz more dmg, better heals, more mana = more time to afk in bb >:D...but to cover pure build just use citrines

Eoria - Harshlands

PriestRain - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes i agree with pure build, cuz more dmg, better heals, more mana = more time to afk in bb >:D...but to cover pure build just use citrines

Oh hey. Full mag and full cit cleric. Let me just one shot you with any phys class of my choosing. Blade Tempest/Plume Shot/Razor Feathers work too.



But seriously, there's nothing wrong with a vit build. Stop demonizing it. All of you.

Kaitica - Heavens Tear

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Oh hey. Full mag and full cit cleric. Let me just one shot you with any phys class of my choosing. Blade Tempest/Plume Shot/Razor Feathers work too.



But seriously, there's nothing wrong with a vit build. Stop demonizing it. All of you.

Its horrible at low levels.

Ive made vit/pure mage classes and my vit ones always die more because they cant kill the enemy.

Higher levels its easier to pump vit :P
So yes its a viable build to switch it.

Swannx - Archosaur

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thunderball is pretty much useless, lol.

As a demon cleric, my demon thunderball (yes, it's level 11) does more damage than demon plume shot, granted that it does take a longer time to channel. I use it in succession in PvE after demon wield thunder which gives a debuff on the mob automatically of 30% less metal resistance, which means my thunderball now does even more damage.

Because a cleric's best attack is cyclone or wield thunder (if mob isn't mag. def buffed), the best way to deal the most damage over time for my cleric is to chain these attacks:
cyclone -> wield thunder -> cyclone -> thunderball -> cyclone -> wield thunder -> cyclone -> thunderball
also because these are all demon skills, my thunderball lasts 12 seconds on the mob, which will finish almost exactly as the next thunderball skill is chained, so I'm not losing any damage overtime since the skills don't stack.

In PvP it is often used against cata barbs in TW or against any melee class if either of the other magic attacks (cyclone+wield thunder) are under cooldown, which they probably will be a lot. Having a 3rd MAGIC attack under the belt is really nice.

Against normal PvP, after putting the enemy to sleep/seal, it's best to channel a thunderball to make them waste their AD/expel because the skill looks so similar to tempest/wield thunder. Or, if they've used up apoth/invoke, thunderball will still deal the amount of damage it's supposed to deal overtime.

Thunderball is NOT a useless skill, despite clerics and new clerics being told over and over again that it is. The magic difference is about ~7509 more than plume shot damage.

But I think you've made up your mind already about this skill. I don't know why I bothered, honestly.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

Swannx - Archosaur wrote: »

Against normal PvP, after putting the enemy to sleep/seal, it's best to channel a thunderball to make them waste their AD/expel because the skill looks so similar to tempest/wield thunder. Or, if they've used up apoth/invoke, thunderball will still deal the amount of damage it's supposed to deal overtime.

I highly doubt anyone smart enough would use expel . Expel make you immunite to physical attack and not magic... thunderball is metal magic attack <.<
Cleric aren't archer and don't plume shot like archer waste arrows . I don't see why someone would use Expel if he is fighting a cleric .

StacysMum - Dreamweaver

You do know you could use plume shot twice in the space of a thunderball right?
Not that it matters but cyclone - wield thunder - cylcone - plume shot - cyclone yeilds a greater damage due to the fact that you fit two cyclones into the wield thunder debuff instead of wasting the time on a rubbish skill. Demon thunderball is rubbish and definately not worth even getting. There is a reason the book is cheap. If it were any good then god knows how many clerics from the last 3 years would be here singing its praises and they aren't, they are all saying its rubbish because it is. DoT as a concept in pvp is a failure due to everybody and their dog being able to self purify or laugh it off XD. OMG OMG nix bleed arrrrgggghh, I still laugh at anybody who dies to it, buy some apoc you cheap bas***ds

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Oh hey. Full mag and full cit cleric. Let me just one shot you with any phys class of my choosing. Blade Tempest/Plume Shot/Razor Feathers work too.



But seriously, there's nothing wrong with a vit build. Stop demonizing it. All of you.

actually, survive-ability of a pure build is quite good. Especially if you know how to use gear to your advantage.

The same goes for VIT builds. Make up for the 2-3k you lost in your base damage by pumping the **** out of your weapon.

The problem is that a lot of VIT builds don't bother to do that and their heals suck when we need them not to.

I was a VIT hybrid till I hit 70. I had 35 points to VIT at that time. Then I realized that by restating, I increased my base damage a little over 1,000 points! Getting the 350hp back was super easy with just a little refining, and sharding gear with garnets gave me even more pdef than I had before.

So basically, go VIT and get that little buffer, and live with the fact that it takes you about 25% more effort to kill something and you're going to be less effective as a healer...
Or go pure, kick ***, and spend a little more on your gear.

It's easier and cheaper to make up the missing hp and def on a pure build than it is to make up for the loss of damage on a VIT build. In the end, it's all about choices though.

As for the Thunderball discussion. I've got it because it was free, but I rarely find it actually useful for the time it takes to cast. I can drop a mob/player before the total damage that might be effective would actually come into play. I'll use it occasionally on bosses and that's about it.

Kanmi - Sanctuary

I think you misunderstood Eoria... Full magic with citrine shard is wrong

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's easier and cheaper to make up the missing hp and def on a pure build than it is to make up for the loss of damage on a VIT build. In the end, it's all about choices though.

What do you mean by "easier and cheaper" ? Ref ? Shard ?

Keliska - Raging Tide

b:surrender Love how everything is late game. I mean if you fail in the beginning, what endgame are you speaking of? (non-cs rep)

Eoria - Harshlands

In PvP it is often used against cata barbs in TW or against any melee class if either of the other magic attacks (cyclone+wield thunder) are under cooldown, which they probably will be a lot. Having a 3rd MAGIC attack under the belt is really nice.

If you're a cleric and you're DDing that much in TW, you're doing it wrong.

Kaitica - Heavens Tear

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

If you're a cleric and you're DDing that much in TW, you're doing it wrong.

Or its so wrong that its right?

I mean... things can be so cold they can give you burns... freezer burns b:pleased

Swannx - Archosaur

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

If you're a cleric and you're DDing that much in TW, you're doing it wrong.

Sometimes you gotta help defend your base full of catas. Other times since the cata squads don't receive support all the time, I will be wrestling with a BM or psychic or whatever toon it is while the barbs go further down the lane to reach the towers. As long as they don't have r9 armor, then yes I will be killing them while the other 2 clerics in squad follow the cats. If I don't kill them, they'll continue to bother our squad and more than likely kill the other 2 clerics. b:shy

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

i remember back in the days a pure MAG cleric was uncommon.

this full attack also refered to clerics who stated full mag and arcane. Later those with full mag/arcane turned the 'full attack' term to 'full mag' cause some of us actually did fully heal and support.

nowadays its not rare but back in 2008 and early 2009, due to lack of gear and shards and refines.... yeah alot of stats and builds were debated

AriesBreath - Raging Tide

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Oh hey. Full mag and full cit cleric. Let me just one shot you with any phys class of my choosing. Blade Tempest/Plume Shot/Razor Feathers work too.



But seriously, there's nothing wrong with a vit build. Stop demonizing it. All of you.

Probably a minor necro, but.

<-- Pure magic/3 base vit, full flawless citrines. I don't get 1 shot by Full R9+12 Blade Tempests unless they crit when I don't have def charms on.

I think you underrate pure magic just a bit.

Hiemus - Raging Tide

<--Pure Mag. I make up for my low HP and p.Def by seriously saving up for gears that helps in those areas, as well as using seals to stall a physical attacker once in a while so I can throw in an extra hit/heal.

Yamiino - Heavens Tear

4.3k hp? im pretty sure even a wiz will kill you

For PVE is not that "fine" either... if you pull aggro of something you will for sure have a charm tick hell, or in AOEs that actually do some good damage, you are a 1-2 shot

I like my build, some vit, more mag, needed str.

Gets me 6.6k hp unbuffed (9.3k - 9.6k deppending on the gear i have on since I switch some) my mag is still pretty high 12-14k, my mp pool is around 9.5k so its pretty much even hp and mag when buffed.

Makes me survive more in TW and PVE... you must find a way to survive, SURVIVAL is key for a cleric to do their job in either PVE and PVP.

ijs.


/////////

Back in the ol' days when I was some what around lvl 50-80 a full attack cleric was the cleric that felt like a wiz and did not want to heal, and simply, attacked all what came in their way, making them an easy target for mobs, yet the other healer if available (most of the time happens when 2 clerics are in squad) has to focus on this dumb cleric because if you stop IH on him, he will die and QQ the hell outa it because of his/her squishiness.

Now, I don't really know what they call full attack clerics, full mag? wasnt that "pure mag"... oh these days...
Seriously if you want to attack only, go roll a psychic or wiz.

Chrisssss - Sanctuary

FAC is a term demon clerics use to justify their choice in becoming demon rather than sage, just very newb stuff b:chuckle

Phoenix_Eye - Heavens Tear

Chrisssss - Sanctuary wrote: »

FAC is a term demon clerics use to justify their choice in becoming demon rather than sage, just very newb stuff b:chuckle

Should i mention Demon has great supporting skills ???? b:surrender