Countries with VAT fees - Change in ZEN Charge Policy
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hey pwe vin is out for all europeans b:laugh
http://en.vindictus.nexoneu.com/NXEU.aspx?PART=/Download/GameClient
your time for doing business in europe is out pwe...
and its out, since you pwe decided to rip all of us european chargers off, by increasing your virtual currency for all us europeans by 30%.
also it is you pwe, giving false answers to tickets, like on player Kondurs by replying that the price increase is a "payment processors" change!
well pwe i am leaving under the motto:
"you fooled me once, shame on you.... you fool me twice shame on me"
b:bye b:bye b:bye0 -
You mean, if a goverment taxes a company, that the company must pass on the expense to the consumer. Wow, what a news flash.
Remember kiddies. Next time you want to stick it to greedy big businesses, you should keep in mind, your just sticking it up you own caboose. OHH, that feels funny.0 -
NecroKitty - Harshlands wrote: »You mean, if a goverment taxes a company, that the company must pass on the expense to the consumer. Wow, what a news flash.
Thats really new, because they say they have paid the tax before.. and pay them now... So the only news is rising prices.0 -
NecroKitty
If that so, name me just one other company working in the mmorpg buissnes who did something simillar like pwe did
just oneI hate Room 380 -
NecroKitty - Harshlands wrote: »You mean, if a goverment taxes a company, that the company must pass on the expense to the consumer. Wow, what a news flash.
Remember kiddies. Next time you want to stick it to greedy big businesses, you should keep in mind, your just sticking it up you own caboose. OHH, that feels funny.
Did you even bother to read???
If yes -> please LEARN to read.
If no -> go and read all what has been said by players in this thread..it is rather educational. Only when done, post a constructive response.Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder b:chuckle0 -
interestingb:pleased0
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Not going to pay anymore to this game, in a roundabout way PW ripping of us european players has been good as I am saving a fortune b:chuckle, as pointed out before no other mmorpg company are doing this b:shocked0
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DaSquirrel - Sanctuary wrote: »Not going to pay anymore to this game, in a roundabout way PW ripping of us european players has been good as I am saving a fortune b:chuckle, as pointed out before no other mmorpg company are doing this b:shocked
Same. I had set myself an allowance to spend on PW per month but haven't spent anything since this change. I've been keeping that money to one side, and if they finally do something about this ludicrous situation, I'll spend it all at once and get myself some decent gear and a fast flying mount
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SmellsFishy - Dreamweaver wrote: »Hmmm...I wonder if there's a connection...
Name makes post b:thanksthen shouldnt US citizens be paying local tax for their zen?
No, local taxes don't apply to goods or services purchased on the internet or over the phone (think as seen on tv!) Unless if course a physical retail location exists in the state you order from, then sales tax is added accordingly (california and new jersey residents please add 12% sales tax)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
sorry to say that, but I tough Europeans were smarter than that... I think I was wrong
the topic is simple:
- PWE wasn't charging VAT
- the law said they can't ---> it doesn't matter if you live in Bosnia or UK, if YOU are in the EU, if THEY are, they have to go to their law
- so now you pay NORMAL PRICE + VAT
now people are saying: "hey PWE, lower the price to us, and only us, and stop making money but still pay the servers and services you offer to us"
There is a difference in coming here to ask for an agreement on the cash shop prices and coming here to say they are lying because they hate Europe...0 -
sorry to say that, but I tough Europeans were smarter than that... I think I was wrong
the topic is simple:
- PWE wasn't charging VAT
- the law said they can't ---> it doesn't matter if you live in Bosnia or UK, if YOU are in the EU, if THEY are, they have to go to their law
- so now you pay NORMAL PRICE + VAT
now people are saying: "hey PWE, lower the price to us, and only us, and stop making money but still pay the servers and services you offer to us"
There is a difference in coming here to ask for an agreement on the cash shop prices and coming here to say they are lying because they hate Europe...
The problem with this way of thinking, as our English friends are pointing out, is that Britain (England) isn't technically part of the EU. They don't use the Euro as their monetary system, they still use the British pound. This means that they shouldn't technically be getting hit with the VAT.0 -
This has been a hundred times before and ill do it again,
If the european zone(including UK and others who DONT use the euro) has to pay the vat instead of PWI paying for it, WHY doesnt PWI reduce the cost of Zen or Increase the amount of zen per purchase?0 -
sorry to say that, but I tough Europeans were smarter than that... I think I was wrong
the topic is simple:
- PWE wasn't charging VAT
[SNIP]
Read the first Post again PWE said they was paying Vat for us and arn't allowed to anymore.
They said so and that means they recived less monney anyways before because they said they paid vat for us. And this has nothing to do with greed ect bla bla.
before
I pay 100 Euro they said they pay vat for me so they pay 20 euros and keep 80
For this 80 euro i get ammount X
now
I pay 120 Euros for ammount X pwi pay 20 Euro VAT and Keep 100 Euros for the ammount X who used to cost 80 euros once.
This have absolutly nothing to do with greed you know b:shutupI hate Room 380 -
The problem with this way of thinking, as our English friends are pointing out, is that Britain (England) isn't technically part of the EU. They don't use the Euro as their monetary system, they still use the British pound. This means that they shouldn't technically be getting hit with the VAT.
but the law is for the company, I don't know what PWE have there, maybe the servers, but the law is applied where they areManostra - Harshlands wrote: »Read the first Post again PWE said they was paying Vat for us and arn't allowed to anymore.
They said so and that means they recived less monney anyways before because they said they paid vat for us. And this has nothing to do with greed ect bla bla.
before
I pay 100 Euro they said they pay vat for me so they pay 20 euros and keep 80
For this 80 euro i get ammount X
now
I pay 120 Euros for ammount X pwi pay 20 Euro VAT and Keep 100 Euros for the ammount X who used to cost 80 euros once.
This have absolutly nothing to do with greed you know b:shutup
In any moment I said that you can't ask them for that
what happens is, they are charging the SAME price as before, but before they would pay the VAT from the entire price, now they can't... to have the same price for you they will have to LOWER the price, what they CAN do...
but here people think that PWE HAVE to do that for europeans... you know that only europeans had this privilege and still want it? So why don't you do it with respect, respect for PWE and for people that do pay the full price?
but again, that is a difference in ASKING for and saying that it is the worst company and they are lying just because now you have to pay for that, even because, the law was made where you are, not in USA
and more, europeans are saying they will all stop buying cash... fair enough, but they will be the only one to suffer with that, no cash = no EU server
stop WHINING about it, stop cursing everyone for that, try to get in a solution
from the outside of the problem, looks like there are lots of spoiled kids, it is not what you want the problem, is how do you want0 -
Where is the so called "privilege" when we want to pay the same prices as Americans do for the same game on an American server, please?
I dont care about EU Server.0 -
Nyssame - Sanctuary wrote: »Where is the so called "privilege" when we want to pay the same prices as Americans do for the same game on an American server, please?
I don
You really don't get it do you? You ARE paying the same price as americans now, before Europe got a discount on their Zen, if anything Americans should be b.itching that European players got better rates.
And for the England players QQing, even though you don't use the euro as currency, you are STILL a part of the eu, so you must pay any taxes they impose in the currency they require.
Still don't like it? Get rid of the eu and euro, god knows Europe would be better off without those 2.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Nope. Before we paid 1 dollar for 1 PWI dollar as you do now. No idea why you should be ******** around about better rates - you would get none.
They say they have paid taxes before too, so for them absolutely nothing has changed besides of charging us now - something funny no one of the 234234324 Facebook Games does.0 -
maybe you should take a break form pwi and walk out into the real world. ijs
more questions asked-more ppl helping to solve-better community-better support...b:bye0 -
Nyssame - Sanctuary wrote: »Nope. Before we paid 1 dollar for 1 PWI dollar as you do now. No idea why you should be ******** around about better rates - you would get none.
They say they have paid taxes before too, so for them absolutely nothing has changed besides of charging us now - something funny no one of the 234234324 Facebook Games does.
If you still don't like it you could move to the US. A whole country founded on the ideals of "loltaxes? Whopaysthose?"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
V alue
A dded
T ax
charging anyone this fee is BS.
what you buy from PWE has ZERO VALUE PERIOD.
You get nothing from them physically and you cant sell your chars or account so NO VALUE.
Prices are irrelivant. Its the taxation on NOTHING thats BS.0 -
Trump - Raging Tide wrote: »maybe you should take a break form pwi and walk out into the real world. ijs
Maybe you should stop to talk bout other peoples concerns if you have nothing resonable to add.0 -
The law that is being quoted is in fact around 10 years old, it is not a new thing in any way... there is a link in this thread that shows this.
Therefore, to this point, PW have not complied with the law, if we are to believe their stance that they do this now because the law says they must.
Additionally, the charging in a particular currency (Euros, pounds sterling, etc), IS within the remit of PW. There is no legislation dicatating what currency you must charge in for a service provided, nor will there ever be.
This said.. there is NO reason to charge countries that do NOT have Euros as their currency, in Euros. You do not charge US customers in Euros do you? No, and why not? well...becuase the currency of the US is not Euros. Surprise surprise PW it is not the currency of the UK either. You are incurring a fee on us for currency exchange that is totally uncalled for. Change that please.
The law regarding charging of VAT for these purchases does NOT apply to the UK for one , either, and the fact that you have offices in Amsterdam is of no relevance to this at all. You are not selling the Zen from Amsterdam, you are selling it from US servers.
You are charging us for tax unlawfully in essence. You refuse to itemise the taxation element when we pay.. why would you do that if you were justified and complying with the law?
You also go on to say that it isnt in your hands but in the hands of the payment processors.
Make your mind up please.
Is it the payment processors who 'have to charge the tax' ? Because in your initial post you clearly state that it is YOU who now have to collect this taxation.
Somewhere there is falsehood in your explanation and administration og the charges you claim to be applying.
Provide clarity.. you are either wrong when you say you have to charge it, or you are wrong when you say the paym,ent processors are charging it.
One of those statements is false.. a falsehood constitutes a lie in anyones book. Ohh and thanks for banning for life one of my other accounts which was legitimately registered with you on the grounds of posting from more than one account.
I posted from whichever i was logged into at the time. If you accepted my registration for the account, that account has a legitimate right to post, surely? Was I pretending to be someone? No.. Was I spamming forums with multiple accounts? No.
Petty petty ban given what you do allow to be said on these forums.. grats.0 -
Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »You really don't get it do you? You ARE paying the same price as americans now, before Europe got a discount on their Zen, if anything Americans should be b.itching that European players got better rates.
And for the England players QQing, even though you don't use the euro as currency, you are STILL a part of the eu, so you must pay any taxes they impose in the currency they require.
Still don't like it? Get rid of the eu and euro, god knows Europe would be better off without those 2.
Incorrect, go learn some basic geography skills and economy skills why don't you.
First and foremost, this VAT they are adding applies to eurozones only. The UK is not a eurozone and, as such, while it is a part of the EU it has it's own monetary system and it vetoed this law as a result of that.
So, no actually, we don't have to pay any taxes that the EU imposes on eurozones because we are not a eurozone and we vetoed their law in the first place, thus meaning it does not apply to countries like England or Scotland or Wales where we use sterling.
That's the first brainless statement of yours corrected.
Now then, when talking about adding VAT, technically the laws imposed involved imported goods (or so I do believe, anyway.) This means that something has to have been brought into Europe in order to be charged this particular additional tax. As in, physically brought into Europe, where you hold it in your hands and say "this is mine!"
Zen being a virtual currency, it is not imported anywhere. My character does not exist in Europe, my character's data does not exist in Europe and my account information for Perfect World Entertainment does not exist in Europe. It is virtual, not physical, and all of the data is stored and kept on US soil. Similarly, zen being a virtual currency that goes to my account and not to my actual house or bank account, what I buy does not travel to Europe. It doesn't leave US soil, by any technicality.
Therefore, this VAT I'm being forced to pay if I charge?
1) Technically illegal. This tax is not applied in my country nor for my currency, and forcing me to pay it is daylight robbery and by all rights, not actually legal at all. It's theft.
2) Furthermore, even if this law did apply to the UK and sterling (which I will remind you it does not) it would only apply to items and goods that leave US soil and get imported into Europe. Being a virtual currency that travels to account information all stored in the United States (which is why I can play PWI from almost anywhere in the world provided I have my account information) it doesn't leave US soil and therefore no import VAT should be being added.
Herp derp. Charging tax for "imported goods" that aren't actually imported and forcing non-eurozones or non-EU countries to conform to a VAT law that doesn't even apply to them is not the smartest thing this company has ever done.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »herp derp
Being part of the eu means paying eu taxes, eurozone or not. You also need to learn how clients and servers work, when you log on to an American game from Europe, as far as virtual laws are concerned, you 'import' the data.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »Being part of the eu means paying eu taxes, eurozone or not. You also need to learn how clients and servers work, when you log on to an American game from Europe, as far as virtual laws are concerned, you 'import' the data.
I'm sorry, but your point is invalid. The tax is on the Euro. A non-euro zone means they use their own currency, therefore should not be forced to pay a tax on the Euro nor be charged in Euros. Furthermore, the data purchased (zen) is created on, and never leaves, the server so is not imported.lvl101 Legit archer...not 1 hyper used or multi-FC0 -
Epros - Raging Tide wrote: »Being part of the eu means paying eu taxes, eurozone or not. You also need to learn how clients and servers work, when you log on to an American game from Europe, as far as virtual laws are concerned, you 'import' the data.
Its almost like you knew something about the subject you are talking about.. lmao
Firstly, we are NOT subject to EU taxes, we are subject to (in my case) UK taxes. If you knew anything at all you would know that VAT is not a "European Tax" but rather a collective name for a taxation system. For example the VAT rate in one European country is different from that in another. In the case of the UK it is not lawful to charge VAT in this way, since the law was vetoed here.
For information too.. as to you talking of imprting data from a virtual law perspective (another subject you speak about like you knew something), IF there were something imported it would in fact be subject to something called IMPORT DUTY.. a totally different form of tax.
Since no one is ever charged import duty by any country for any data in this way, it is pretty safe to assume that nothing is imported, (in "virtual law" or otherwise). There is no way that all these countries would miss the opportunity to charge import duty if it were indeed viewed that way legally.
Again, for the record, each country charges its own independant rate of import duty too, there being no european catch all rate or system.
IF we were using PW europe servers, there MAY be a case whereby charging VAT at the rate applicable in the servers host country would be a legal and viable option. Since most of the people here refer to customers from europe who use US servers.. the whole thing falls apart.
NO ONE is prepared to itemise and show the VAT element of charges to customers here. There is only one reason for that. The whole fairy tale is either a mammoth mistake that they arent prepared to rectify, or the whole thing is a lie from the outset to excuse a price hike to overseas players, who I might add, constitute a sizeable chunk of your player base.
You wouldnt do this in the US because you would be dragged to the courts so fast you would have whiplash.
Time to find a lawyer in the US who wants a few thousand customers in a class action lawsuit I think.0 -
I was bored as my Tivo box broke after 2 days so though i would click on some old book marks and ended up here lol.
I have to say im supprised this game is still going. Over a year ago people was saying it's dead already, and that was about different issues though always involved PWI's deceit .
One common theme that has remained is how PWI are ripping people off.
Well thats should be no supprise to anyone who reads these forums.
As for defending PWI theres no need. They have and will continue to post a reason for why they do something, then never back it up with facts, and continue to ignore it's player base. No point in threatening to quit or withdraw you RL cash, it's never worked before so just do it.
As for spending money on imaginary item's well, it's called paying for your entertainment, which is no different to paying to watch a movie, see a football game or anything else that has no value once its over.
The fact is it's your choice to play or not , and its realy easy to quit. b:chuckle0 -
I have read through all this thread & one thing stands out.....
PWE DO NOT & WILL NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK!!
but what the hell, might as well post anyway
All they care about is profit as they class themselves as ' A Business'
Most businesses think, instead of losing customers, they think on how to keep them.
One way, like a few have said, is to compensate the VAT with extra Zen.
It's only pixels guys in PWE, it isn't like we want your blood ( yet lol )
you keep **** us over, more & more will leave, a reputation will build up, then less & less people will download this game, then where will you be?
up sh** street without a paddle basically, and who will be to blame?
Lemme guess, yup, ya right......YOU!!!0 -
Actually the USD has become worthless to all outside countries. Everyone is attempting to escape the worlds current currency, aka USD. As soon as the Middle East can complete their trades with each other with out using the USD (aka Oil Trades) we can all kiss the value of the USD good byeNekhebet - Heavens Tear wrote: »actually that law if there is such a law would apply only to country's that have Euro as currency. Maybe in the US u don't know but not all European Union country's have Euro as currency. ex: Great Britain Bulgaria Romania.
U need to do u'r homework better before posting.
All markets regarding or revolving around the American currency will fall. The only working market we as Americans will have is Gold, Silver and Copper.
Maybe if you did YOUR homework you'd remember about the meeting all the countries had including Europe and the Eastern countries. If so you'd know they had a meeting about changing the global currency from USD to a new marketable currency "Bancor". After that becomes stable the USD will get the boot inflation will rise to a ungodly high.. All markets regarding the USD as I've stated before will burn to the ground, so TBH PWRD I'd suggest getting your *** out of the common use of USD considering you are actually a Chinese Company.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Unchallenged, Cool Story Bro.0
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