What about Game Advisors ?

Ichimokusan - Sanctuary

I am adamantly against this being implemented. I played games from another company where they had a Game Sage program, which was a "normal" player who acted as a liason to the GMs. I was in no way equal to a normal player though, even though we were instructed that being a GS had no benefits. Some of the benefits I received:

- $20 monthly item mall allowance
- Confidential information on upcoming content updates
- GMs spawning unreleased bosses for GSes after GM/GS meetings
- Free 100% success rate linking of gems, enhancements, and enchants
- List of current exploits ("please don't share these") that GMs would show us how to do
- Free rare mounts and ability to super stealth (meaning not even leaving a hollow character like normal stealth) with any character as long as no other players were around.

Yeah GM assistants being "totally normal players" is a line of BS to make others not want to do the job for the wrong reason, even though GSes would tell their friends about it in Vent and then their friends would want to apply "because they are helpful people." After a month or two the GSes would be much less active in the community after the unique feeling wears off and they would do just enough to not get kicked out of the program.

Just like with any other organization, volunteers expect something free even though they are volunteering. Many orgs thank volunteers by giving them event tickets, t-shirts, snacks, refreshments, or even something as small as address labels. No one volunteers and expects absolutely nothing in return.

krisnda

Ichimokusan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am adamantly against this being implemented. I played games from another company where they had a Game Sage program, which was a "normal" player who acted as a liason to the GMs. I was in no way equal to a normal player though, even though we were instructed that being a GS had no benefits. Some of the benefits I received:

- $20 monthly item mall allowance
- Confidential information on upcoming content updates
- GMs spawning unreleased bosses for GSes after GM/GS meetings
- Free 100% success rate linking of gems, enhancements, and enchants
- List of current exploits ("please don't share these") that GMs would show us how to do
- Free rare mounts and ability to super stealth (meaning not even leaving a hollow character like normal stealth) with any character as long as no other players were around.

Yeah GM assistants being "totally normal players" is a line of BS to make others not want to do the job for the wrong reason, even though GSes would tell their friends about it in Vent and then their friends would want to apply "because they are helpful people." After a month or two the GSes would be much less active in the community after the unique feeling wears off and they would do just enough to not get kicked out of the program.

Just like with any other organization, volunteers expect something free even though they are volunteering. Many orgs thank volunteers by giving them event tickets, t-shirts, snacks, refreshments, or even something as small as address labels. No one volunteers and expects absolutely nothing in return.

Apparently you know nothing about the mods here. Tell me what do we get for "free" or what we would "expect to get", we do this because we like this game and we like helping people, not for gaining trivial things in-game. If people want to have a position like being a GA because they get a "special title, or cool items or some other thing", then they don't need to volunteer for it. We've already agreed that it would be a "moderator position in-game", nothing special comes out of it just like us forum mods (besides the fact that we can edit posts/move/delete, we can't/don't act like gods).

Ichimokusan - Sanctuary

People have friends die of cancer and participate in the walks but still want something in return, I've seen it with my own eyes. Without your title would you still be helpful on the forums? Probably. Anyone and everyone can be helpful without having a title so why do they need one? Even if you do receive benefits, you wouldn't tell us about it because the company would make you agree not to when inviting you into the position and kick you out if you broke any part of the agreement. I remember furiously denying accusations on that game's forum about receiving perks and even pretended to act upset.

People should be helpful without needing a title to encourage them.

krisnda

People should be helpful without needing a title to encourage them.

While I do agree with this, it still doesn't make much sense. Its just like saying that you can put people in jail without having a cop title, or you don't need to be president to help America, etc.

Back on the subject, I'm going to see if I can talk to Frankie (again) and see where he stands right now with this idea, I do think it would be a good idea, if implemented (with tweaking).

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Krisnda wrote: »

While I do agree with this, it still doesn't make much sense. Its just like saying that you can put people in jail without having a cop title, or you don't need to be president to help America, etc.

....you don't. s'called voting, doing charity work, contributing to information banks like Wikipedia, etc. b:chuckle There's also citizen's arrests, and calling the police. Sure they do the physical throwing of the person in jail, but your the one that stopped the crime and caused the person to go to jail.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Krisnda wrote: »

I would Love for this to be implemented, but idk as of now.

And for the comment about the GM's not caring about the game, how do you think the GA system would even go through, magic? They would have to talk to the Devs (or think of it themselves), and implement it.

I'm not sure which comment you're referring to? PM me too if I missed something?

krittycat

Ichimokusan - Sanctuary wrote: »

Even if you do receive benefits, you wouldn't tell us about it because the company would make you agree not to when inviting you into the position and kick you out if you broke any part of the agreement. I remember furiously denying accusations on that game's forum about receiving perks and even pretended to act upset.

People should be helpful without needing a title to encourage them.

I'll be the first to tell you that we get no benefits from being in our position, and I can tell you that we are under no such agreement with the GMs. We are allowed to talk about pretty much anything we want to talk about, and even form our own opinions on things the community discusses.

We are players, just like you guys. We get no special treatment (heck, I even got banned for accidentally having an IP proxy up once), and we don't expect it. The moderators on this forum do this strictly for the express purpose of keeping this forum friendly for new posters to come in and ask questions, get information, and learn more about the game. If there is anything I can do to prove to you that we don't get special benefits, I'll gladly do it, just PM me.

As for this GA idea, I still support this, within reason. Again, no special benefits can be garnered by being in the position, and no special powers gained. The main purpose of a GM would be to communicate directly to the GMs, to ensure quick response to any obvious violations.

krisnda

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not sure which comment you're referring to? PM me too if I missed something?

You know just ignore that, I'm not sure why I quoted you xD.

I'll be the first to tell you that we get no benefits from being in our position, and I can tell you that we are under no such agreement with the GMs. We are allowed to talk about pretty much anything we want to talk about, and even form our own opinions on things the community discusses.

We are players, just like you guys. We get no special treatment (heck, I even got banned for accidentally having an IP proxy up once), and we don't expect it. The moderators on this forum do this strictly for the express purpose of keeping this forum friendly for new posters to come in and ask questions, get information, and learn more about the game. If there is anything I can do to prove to you that we don't get special benefits, I'll gladly do it, just PM me.

Also thanks Kritty for reiterating what I said ^^.

krisnda

Bump for something D;

RageKill - Lost City

Ichimokusan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am adamantly against this being implemented. I played games from another company where they had a Game Sage program, which was a "normal" player who acted as a liason to the GMs. I was in no way equal to a normal player though, even though we were instructed that being a GS had no benefits. Some of the benefits I received:

- $20 monthly item mall allowance
- Confidential information on upcoming content updates
- GMs spawning unreleased bosses for GSes after GM/GS meetings
- Free 100% success rate linking of gems, enhancements, and enchants
- List of current exploits ("please don't share these") that GMs would show us how to do
- Free rare mounts and ability to super stealth (meaning not even leaving a hollow character like normal stealth) with any character as long as no other players were around.

Yeah GM assistants being "totally normal players" is a line of BS to make others not want to do the job for the wrong reason, even though GSes would tell their friends about it in Vent and then their friends would want to apply "because they are helpful people." After a month or two the GSes would be much less active in the community after the unique feeling wears off and they would do just enough to not get kicked out of the program.

Just like with any other organization, volunteers expect something free even though they are volunteering. Many orgs thank volunteers by giving them event tickets, t-shirts, snacks, refreshments, or even something as small as address labels. No one volunteers and expects absolutely nothing in return.

I know exactly what game you're talking about. And lets face it that game is going down the turlet. But the reason the GS team on that game is corrupt is because the GMs there allow it. It's no one elses fault but the GMs.

If something along those lines is started here i see no issue with it. Just as long as people are doing it to help. I would hope that these volunteers receive no special treatment

Punching_bag - Sanctuary

I agree with this idea completely.

Personally I would hope for more than 3 per server, since that would spread the workload more during peak times, as well as cover more time overall.

I think it would have to be by application, as voting would be difficult to do server-wide, and would pass over people who were helpful but not well known. I also agree that it shouldn't be a paid position.

Also, bump for fun.

P.S. Thanks for the link in your sig Krisnda

krisnda

b:victory

God_Exiler - Sanctuary

This seems like a nice idea, and yeah I agree with Punching__bag we would need multiple people per server preferably with different backgrounds

examples:

a cashshopper r9
a merchant who has not spend RL cash in PWI
a common forum dweller of that server
,etc. etc.

point is have people of multiple backgrounds (those that buy zen and those that don't, / those with r9, and those against it / those who make money farming and those who make money merchandising/ ,etc. etc.)

or some other form of different perspective so a wider grasp of a perspective is seen.

Torzen - Lost City

God_Exiler - Sanctuary wrote: »

This seems like a nice idea, and yeah I agree with Punching__bag we would need multiple people per server preferably with different backgrounds

examples:

a cashshopper r9
a merchant who has not spend RL cash in PWI
a common forum dweller of that server
,etc. etc.

point is have people of multiple backgrounds (those that buy zen and those that don't, / those with r9, and those against it / those who make money farming and those who make money merchandising/ ,etc. etc.)

or some other form of different perspective so a wider grasp of a perspective is seen.

true true

Blueturtle - Dreamweaver

*bump*
Hey,do we need a GA to start the GA system? Its been a while...

b:beatup

sorry,just a bit frustrated...

Nymfysubstaz - Dreamweaver

Not game advisors....Game mods yes definitely who can give weekly or bi-weekly as things are ironed out updates to PW staffers as an extra a back up if you will.... (someone that has the players "backs" if you will as well as the GM/Dev's/forum mods etc...There are plenty of websites including the forums for EXCELLENT advise and database stuff...Advisors would burn out to quickly and No one has that much patience I PROOOOMISE!!! lol Again, I say that people shouldn't be micro managed in the game or out of it. Give 'em access to the fish and let them learn. Us old schoolers didn't have half of the web information out there that is readily available. We actually had to work at things like our FB's. Whahaha.... Okay really Kris I am goin to bed.

Nymfysubstaz - Dreamweaver

Originally Posted by Ichimokusan - Sanctuary
I am adamantly against this being implemented. I played games from another company where they had a Game Sage program, which was a "normal" player who acted as a liason to the GMs. I was in no way equal to a normal player though, even though we were instructed that being a GS had no benefits. Some of the benefits I received:

- $20 monthly item mall allowance
- Confidential information on upcoming content updates
- GMs spawning unreleased bosses for GSes after GM/GS meetings
- Free 100% success rate linking of gems, enhancements, and enchants
- List of current exploits ("please don't share these") that GMs would show us how to do
- Free rare mounts and ability to super stealth (meaning not even leaving a hollow character like normal stealth) with any character as long as no other players were around.

Yeah GM assistants being "totally normal players" is a line of BS to make others not want to do the job for the wrong reason, even though GSes would tell their friends about it in Vent and then their friends would want to apply "because they are helpful people." After a month or two the GSes would be much less active in the community after the unique feeling wears off and they would do just enough to not get kicked out of the program.

Just like with any other organization, volunteers expect something free even though they are volunteering. Many orgs thank volunteers by giving them event tickets, t-shirts, snacks, refreshments, or even something as small as address labels. No one volunteers and expects absolutely nothing in return.

RageKill - Lost City wrote: »

I know exactly what game you're talking about. And lets face it that game is going down the turlet. But the reason the GS team on that game is corrupt is because the GMs there allow it. It's no one elses fault but the GMs.

If something along those lines is started here i see no issue with it. Just as long as people are doing it to help. I would hope that these volunteers receive no special treatment

Okay but this is a good place to start...you take a panel of people and discuss what does and doesn't work. I don't believe that someone who is a mod should be in a guild it would be to easy to be a conflict of interest and leads to problems. There are many people who play this game who don't see the need to be in a guild. And my thoughts on another post would have any item benefit be made to not work if they were in PVP or even TW. It's a fairly simple idea and wouldn't be hard to do. There are many such items in game already. Again nothing is perfect but checks and balances can be in place. One reason "mods" become less active is because of the fact that they end up not actually getting to "play the game" which is why we are here...right? Good posts though guys! Glad I so many are thinking and brain storming. We all love the game, lets make it work for our players and staff.

krittycat

Nymfysubstaz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just like with any other organization, volunteers expect something free even though they are volunteering. Many orgs thank volunteers by giving them event tickets, t-shirts, snacks, refreshments, or even something as small as address labels. No one volunteers and expects absolutely nothing in return.

What exactly do you think it is the forum moderators get? I'll tell you what... a great, big, steaming pile of... nothing.b:surrender

Xx_BeLLa_xX - Harshlands

KrittyCat wrote: »

What exactly do you think it is the forum moderators get? I'll tell you what... a great, big, steaming pile of... nothing.b:surrender

Actually you get... a big pile of... people who love you or hate you. b:dirty

temp0r4ry

A GA system in PWI would be pretty nice, actually. Here's how I think it should work.
GA's would have a special avatar and color on the forum, and possibly an icon in the game. The Game Advisors role is to help players with in-game problems, and do some minor policing. They will also be able to report bugs and issues to the GM/CM and devs.


Appointing GA's
The best way to do this, in my opinion, would be probably let the community vote on people somehow. Of course, they would post an application (as stated by Drakaniel, resume/motivations/interview etc) first for the GM's to review before the poll would be made.

Moderators should probably be given all of this anyway, and maybe some more abilities. If they were appointed moderator to begin with, trust shouldn't really be an issue here.


GA/GM Communication

1. How to contact a GA - Have an ingame dialog listing the GA's that are logging in on the server. This would be similar to the squad menu (press T)
2. A private forum for GM's and GA's to share could be nice, for discussing various bugs and issues.
3. GA's could have access to a special form on the website to send email's to GMs. This way emails could be sent without revealing the GM's email (@perfectworld.com or other)
4. Access to an in-game chat for GA's
5. Perhaps a live chat-box on the forum for GA's/GMs to communicate?
6. Phone/text communication. This should only be used for the highest priority things. For example, if a GA spots someone exploiting something very serious - like hacking players, or exploiting the item sending system, or a player has found a way to crash the server (and is stupid enough to admit it in chat)

Compensation
Really, compensation shouldn't be necessary. But here's a few things anyway

1. Gold. Not much, maybe like 10-15.
2. If not gold, what about some special packs? Give like 10-15. For example.. http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/quest/24981 or something. (translations / name edit would be necessary for this one)

In-game Abilities
These commands could be printed out in the GM chat, since I'm certain it exists. For example, in GM chat it would show as:

Player 'name here' ( UID=123456 ) using command 'mute' on user 'muted players name' ( UID=654321 )

Log it. This goes without saying. Maybe also add a page to the site for GA's/GM's to see a list of commands used by the GA's. GA's should be able to see other GA's commands and what not, they've got nothing to hide.

1. Ability to deal with spammers and trolls in chat, like mute. Add a cooldown to this command to help prevent abuse.
2. Ability to teleport stuck players to town. If someone is stuck and cannot use town portal (due to cooldown or being stuck in such a way it wont let you use skills).

As for moderators. And possibly senior GA's (people who have been advisors for a long long time, with no complaints etc. )

1. Kick a user offline. This is to be used on people who abuse gltiches in real time, etc.
2. Temporarily ban a user. That is, ban them for say 30 minutes. Same thing as kick, just keep them offline for a little while. Good for those pests that relog and repeat the offense they were kicked for.

And that's about it for in-game abilities. Anything more would pretty much mean becomming a GM...



Reporting GA abuse
Obviously, there's always a chance someone might abuse their abilities. So we need a good way to report them.

1. The support ticket system. Add an option for reporting GA's. This would take some priority over other issues, and be monitored by GMs a little closer.
2. Possibly a reporting forum. Topics made here are only visible by GMs (and maybe mods?), and the poster.
3. Add a form to report GA's. This would take the place of a report forum. GM's are to check up on this regularly.

There's my 2 cents. Too tired to add more right now. Also, I apologize for any typos or stupid ideas. Again, tired. :-)


PS. Obviously, most of this probably wont be possible unless PWI here in the US has access to the source code, and the rights to make changes. Unless, of course, this actually makes its way to china and the devs in china like the idea.

karmelia

No need for that.

what they need is to have GMs online 24/7, and to reactivates that useless now "GM" button.

It's not a player's job to do what you propose. I'ts PWI's GMs. Appointing GA would only removes even more resposibilities from PWI's hands, to their utmost pleasure I bet.

It's not our fault if they are even too cheap to hire moderatiors for the forums to the point they give this job to volunteers. Imagine online GMs.....

Atheist - Harshlands

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Hello PW,

I don't know if this exists in PW, but I played another game called -removed- and they have what is called a GA : Game Advisor.

Who is the GA and what's his job ?
A GA is basically a normal gamer. He has no special item and is not in charge of cash shop nor discipline nor tickets.
What he does is that he plays and he relays informations directly to the GMs and is in charge of creating a good ambiance within the server to make it a pleasant place to play.

The effect is very clear to me :
- removed
- It has a cash shop, with the sales and stuff
- They make lots of money because removed was up before PWI and still is attracting new gamers (it's the 6th expansion right now, when we are at like 3rd expansion...)
- I didn't find a single QQ thread in the removed forums complaining about "free to play, pay to win", "how GMs don't give a damn about the community", etc...

It's true that the GMs don't give a damn about the community.
Maybe we should have GA, so someone cares about us and relays our feedbacks to them so they can see clear in what is missing and what is working well. I do imagine that the GM's job isn't a piece of cake and that it's annoying to deal with QQers all day when you read the forums.
That's why a GA would be helpful. It will let the GMs focus more on their other stuff.

It's just a suggestion (but don't move it in the suggestions forum, because nobody reads it, even less the GMs and hypothetical CMs). A GM or CM answer would be very welcome.


Drak.


NB : For the lazy butts, here is the first sum up.

giving a player any type of power the rest do not have while he plays would be a conflict of interests and a huge business mistake... people like me would purposley talk **** to those players those players would get butthurt try to get me banned id be banned and all the money pwe made off me would be it they would make no more the player base would slower go down as more players made that one player with power butthurt so on and so on

with how fruity allot of the players in this game are they would suck up to that player that player would gain fame and wealth he or she did not earn all because he can speak to gms...

monkeysir35

(Unsure if Necro...) Bump for relevance...

alymara

I voted Against any gamer doing the job of a company. Some will say but they (The Company) is to busy to mod the forums. BS, It's part of the Job they have undertaken.

All Game/Forum Mods do is provide the company a firewall of unpaid volunteers to hide behind. I mean come on think about it, if Forum Mods did not exists what would have to come to pass. People that get paid to run a game would actually have to interact with the people playing the game ???

Game Sages that help with game play ? Yes, as they are not acting as a firewall between the players and game related problems. Any person that truly loves the game would never want to be a game mod. Any person that volunteers to become a forum Mod , does so strictly for a sense of power and more often than not abuse this power unto people that they personally dislike.

So the solution to the problem is for anyone that truly loves the game and wishes to reverse the current lack of interaction between the company and it's player base is for "ALL Forum and Game MODS" to resign, forcing the company to hire a paid employ to do the job they are supposed to be doing in the first place.

reliea

Basically no.
No, more middle-men between gamer-GM communication isn't going to help at all. We already have a supposed middle-man between gamers and gms, and that's the ticket system. Does it work well? Also no, but creating a class of player in game who is basically a living person being the ticket between player and gm will just cause more strife; as anger will be misdirected again now at a real person instead of the ticket system or actual GM, and the newly appointed GA will soon want to quit because they can't play in peace any more and are not officially employed by PWI.

This is a job that a GM should be doing. All GMs busy? Hire more, or restructure the current GMs to allow more of them actual time on the servers.

We want GMs with actual GM powers who can directly talk to players on a regular basis. Doesn't have to be every day all the time, but now and again would actually really improve moral. And I don't just mean being around more for events, red text GMs on at event times doesn't improve moral, it just proves the point that 99% of the time players are left with no GM attention.

morridune

reliea wrote: »

Basically no....

We want GMs with actual GM powers who can directly talk to players on a regular basis. Doesn't have to be every day all the time, but now and again would actually really improve moral. And I don't just mean being around more for events, red text GMs on at event times doesn't improve moral, it just proves the point that 99% of the time players are left with no GM attention.

essentially i agree with this. The GM's need to be more present plus allowed to actually play the game a lil and interact with community. I'd vote PWI give em set rota's to in game, give em range of GM gear's and an allowance for running with different lvl squads through instances, hell even give them a weekly PK allowance so they can take part in the open world pk and see how it plays for different ppl. Way I see it at the moment there is a massive disconnection betwn the player base and company, by having their own "in house" gamers taking part and been seen to take an active interest can only 1 help improve relations btwn the two and flow of information and 2 help them with issues in game as having their own experience can only aid when working with the dev's on bug fix's or what actually need updating.

and yeh this mighta been a necro but its still a relevant topic in my view and save's on another thread been started

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

What karmelia said in #142. Every task that's been proposed for volunteer GA's to do, so far, has been a task that ought to properly be carried out by paid employees of PWE, Inc. --- that is, by GMs. Fobbing them off on unpaid (or, far worse, "unpaid") volunteers will. not. help.

Same thing goes for forum moderators, too. Moderating a discussion forum is real work. The only reason to do it without compensation would be if you own or co-own the forum; having a for-profit corporation rely on unpaid volunteers to do this only tells the world that PWE thinks these forums are worthless and the time and effort of the moderators are without value --- and, for that matter, that the moderators agree with those valuations.

(Standing offer: I'll gladly help moderate these forums, for US$15 an hour plus benefits. Or part-time without benefits at $35 an hour. I'll happily give PWE their money's worth, but those figures are what my time's worth. Dunno how the current mods make their living if they don't think their effort is worth anything...?)

Brillance - Raging Tide

It sounds good, but in the end, its a position to be abused. Basicly a favored child, unless you could find a totally trustworthy and fair person to selflessly take the job.

I'm not sure one exists anywhere in the real world.

Not being cynical at all, just realistic. b:surrender

Severos - Raging Tide

@temp0r4ry what you saying is like GMing (ban/mute/players stuck in place -GMs can port them out in no time-) as for seen others commands it's call checking logs and only admins can do it due to that only them have access to log files.
@Brillance there are players like this, they just don't find their chance to prove it
@lenieClrake there are players who would be mods/GMs for nothing, the fun moderating forums and GMing in game is enough payment, tho i have to say we need more mods around here i think.

heerohex#3018

Looks like another forgoten item...

Gotta say ive been helping players in game a lot at the moment. my line is "im not a GM but can i help may be i can point you in right direction"

Seams to work well.

Im still in suport of this!!!

And to think as well you mods get nothing for your time... when u could be grinding or makin coin lol. May be some coin is in order...