What about Game Advisors ?

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

Thanks for the reply, Frankieraye b:victory

frankieraye wrote:

1. How would we pick the game advisors?

I was waiting for this question ! Here are some ideas :
1) The same way you pick mods in the forums
2) Elections (my favorite, since no one could question their legitimity)
3) With application (resume, motivations, maybe interview)

frankieraye wrote:

2. What would be the GA's direct line to the GM/CM? Would this then make the opinions of regular players less important?

Well, it could be simple : e-mail and/or in-game friendlist. Or even a private forum which would actually be checked often by the PWE staff.
No, it wouldn't make the opinions of regular players less important. On the contrary, it's to bring the regular players' opinions forward without all the QQing, keeping only the positive part of a complaint. GAs would be like "the voice of the people" to yall PWE staff so that you guys KNOW what your community wants.
Let's be honest, PWE doesn't show very much how they care about their players' opinion. Now if we had GAs that would relay the most demanded things and the most realistic suggestions, and gave the community a quick feedback on them (either Yes or No, we only want an answer and a reason), the community will feel less resentful.

frankieraye wrote:

3. Would there then need to be a designated way for regular players to be able to reach their Game Advisors?

As for now, i'm reasoning witht the elements I have in my hands : forum PM, it's all i can think about now OR if you are generous you can make them a PW e-mail account b:laugh
Tickets are a bad idea, it doesn't make people feel like they're talking to someone.
Though, we would have to keep clear in people's minds that the GAs are NOT a suggestion box.

frankieraye wrote:

As for other games where everyone is supposedly happy and there has never been a single complaint, I'm afraid I really don't believe it. Though you may not find complaints in the public forums, it's not exactly hard to move such complaints to a private admin forum.

Yep, agreed.
Though, from my personal experience (as i played this game long before PWI), I never ever heard QQing about cash-shoppers, absent GMs, "nobody listens to us anyway", etc...
Cash-shoppers, contrary to PW, are almost "admired" and encouraged by the other players (yeah, true story) and is not considered game breaking.
You will always find QQers wherever you go, whichever game you play. But honestly, the feeling of the community i have there compared to PWI's is completely different. In PW, if you cash-shop, you almost have to hide and pretend you found your HP charm on the ground b:laugh

Keep in mind that what works in China might not work everywhere. This community needs a good communication between them and "Pan Gu".


Drak.

StabbyCakes - Heavens Tear

GA is a good idea in principle.

How to pick them:
Obviously the person would have to volunteer or apply.
The person should be an old player.
There should be SEVERAL. At the very least 2 per server, probably from different time zones.

I already do a lot of this~ simply by answering WCs for GMs.
Random WC: "ZOMG GM PM ME PLZ"
Stabby's witty wc comeback: "GMs don't exist how may I help you?"
followed by a pm from me to the complainer usually ending with me explaining to them how to write a proper ticket.

I think GAs could probably have their own forum subtopic where they can post anything that needs to be looked at. One that all GAs have access to so if there are multiple reports of the problem it wont get repeated, just the thread can be added to. If it is a serious problem perhaps the GAs should have a special rights permit for the ticketing chat system when it is available. Maybe instant messenger contact via the new beta core connect thingy to GMs online. (Not for abuse.)

As for there being a way to reach a GA~ I think that can be solved in game. As GA have a chatroom open. If people have questions or whatever they can come in your chatroom and say it and leave and you'll have a clear record of it, even if you were afk when they came in to talk to you. You can message them back as needed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Whomsoever is brave enough to actually PERFORM this job should be compensated. It will be an extremely aggrivating, highly intensive, research-skills-required kind of job. These GAs will be flooded with questions and problems ranging from the mundane to the totally unheard of, as well as trolls and liars to deal with. Not to mention Engrish.

So Frankie if you're serious about possible implementation of this sort of thing what sort of compensation do you think would be reasonable?

Pressa - Heavens Tear

Honestly everyone here is saying one or two GA I don't think for the job thats enough. Because by what everyone is describing it rather sounds like a mini cm :P While thats all well and good I don't exactly understand what people are saying when they are talking about what they are suppose to do.

As far as I'm concerned I think GAs should be able to answer questions like: If the Devs are working on fixing such and such bug. If the Dev/GMs are aware of the recent scams, if they have say plans to take out the anniversary packs from before that kinda thing. Kinda like a mod would do but with more information on some subjects. They would also gather opinions to get a better understanding of who hates changes made to the game and who enjoys them.

@_@ I had a better explanation before

They should be picked like mods qualified people that can do the job set in front of them. Election is also a good idea and there are no sour apples if the community choose them.

They must be experienced at least a year playing the game any less and they shouldn't qualify.(meaning they should have the mount or have gotten the mount) They should be different classes preferably and different servers that way people can contact them easier. It should definitely not be just one per server I'd air more then two but its up to you to decide. I can't decide exactly how much they should know I wanna say less but more at the same time.

I think kinda they should know about the goings on what the devs are working on(not like expansion wise) Basically what I feel they should embody is all of this communication people keep begging for from the GMs they need to be able to accomplish this. Short a ticket or stuff that should be ONLY GM handled they should be able to handle it. b:chuckle

And no the opinion of the GA will not override the opinion of other people however it should be the GA's duty to gather the opinions of the people and represent them. Meaning not every GA will represent the opinion they personally hold.

Hmmmm I think I'm missing something from the original plan but thats a good start

MissEva - Dreamweaver

atm im for anything that might make the PWI staff better. They make this game worse and worse every other week. Current example: 3rd anniversery means 66 percent sale. last year we got mounts for free, this year they give us jack zit. Someone telling them this is totally pissing off thier customers would be nice.

krisnda

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, Frankieraye b:victory


I was waiting for this question ! Here are some ideas :
1) The same way you pick mods in the forums
2) Elections (my favorite, since no one could question their legitimity)
3) With application (resume, motivations, maybe interview)

In another game that I play, the moderators (on their forums) have this type of job and actually have a "Moderator" tag above their name in-game.

Overall, I think this would be a good idea, implemented correctly, and it would be nice to get more help

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

MissEva - Dreamweaver wrote: »

atm im for anything that might make the PWI staff better. They make this game worse and worse every other week. Current example: 3rd anniversery means 66 percent sale. last year we got mounts for free, this year they give us jack zit. Someone telling them this is totally pissing off thier customers would be nice.

Reading before saying thing like this would be nice. The anni is in september, they have already said there will be more than the sales. If you don't want to read all of the news articles, that's fine. But then don't pretend you know what they are planning for future releases. http://pwi.perfectworld.com/news/?p=303291

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

Ok I think we have a pretty good definition by now :

Primary attributions :
- Direct link between the players and the GMs and CM
- Suggestions forum watcher
---> Suggestions
---> Bugs
==> for both suggestions and bugs, their duty is to relay the most realisable fixes to the GMs and give them a priority order


Secondary attributions :
- WC moderators
--> moderate the things that are said, the spamming, etc...
--> give advices when people ask for a GM (they must be knowledgable)


Tools :
- Chatroom IG
- Private forum
- GM's and CM's e-mail adresses (a @perfectworld.com would be awesome b:pleased )
- Each other's e-mail adresses
- Limited GMs IG features (if possible)


Choice :
Either by :
- Election
- Application (resume + motivation + interview)


Materialisation :
On the forums :
- Special avatar (like mods and GMs)
- Title (under the avatar)
In-game :
- a tag next to or above their IG name
- special chat color (?)


Compansation :
- I think Gold would be a nice payment for the performance of such a job, as it equals real life money but without making it another expanse for PWE as Gold can be generated on demand. Frankie ?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think I covered pretty much everything... I will make more sum ups as we go toward a better definition of the job.

Also, I think that there should be a GA Manager, that won't have more attributions nor tools than the others, but that will only make sure the GA system works properly. Like tracking their activity and making sure they don't abuse of the powers given to them.

Keep giving constructive comments ! b:victory



Drak.

Saving_Grace - Raging Tide

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

Continue this discussion without mentioning it, please.

At first I LoL-ed.
I LoL-ed really hard...
Then I realized it was an order, and we're all supposed to obey b:shocked

Anyway.. @ OP: Seems like a good idea to insert a "filter" between GMs and us mortals. Because, to me it seems that GManiacs don't really know their jobs, responsibilities, and sometimes it feels like even their purpose is not clear to some of them, not to mention, 85% of player base believe them to be a myth. On the other hand, I don't think there's more than one ticket every ten days they recieve, that makes sense, and that's where GA could come in handy to filter out the junk. Something like a spam filter in e-Mail. b:thanks

Atrocious - Heavens Tear

Bump. Can we get this plan set in motion? This is brilliant. Lets do it. As soon as possible.

In regard to compensation, as this will likely be the biggest factor that makes the plan take forever to implement, I'd say 50 gold a week sounds like a good amount. Broken down that's a little over 7 dollars a day which is good considering the fanatics that will take this job are probably online for at least that many hours. Broken down again, that's about a dollar an hour.

I dunno. I'd like to be able to earn r9 in a fair amount of time if I were to volunteer for this position. At the rate I suggested above it would take roughly 7 months. That's still a bit long but better than nothing. I figure we should set a starting point for negotiations and hopefully the PWI Gods will be generous.

Engeli - Sanctuary

support this idea so much ^^ would be nice, and prob lessen the amount of work a GM have, atleast i think so xD or they could get more insight to a certain problem etc etc. also i myself would feel as a gamer that u could get in touch with a gm regarding a problem trough this GA, ofc game problems.. not like personal ban/****/ account problems <.< and that u actually have a method to influence this game, or atleast just say where the problems are. xD im sure us gamers who play this game everyday finds the problems first ;P (like the new SP where u can pk, fly, bramble works etc. although its rly cool, would love to have it in a seperate instance where u would be allowed to pk etc xD )

how to pick the GAs? well thats rather difficult i guess xP make a quizz for people to test knowledge? xD have them change around every month so that new people come? dunno so many options P:

like... should players be able to QQ.. i mean express their problems to these GAs? some GAs might be flooded with people expressing their problems then i guess haha.

regarding getting in touch with GMs: make GAs do a weekly repport they have to hand in? xD haha, phone, mail, skype (lol but its free 8D) forums, idunno xD in todays society its not hard to get in touch with someone from the other side of the world so P: i dont see that much problem in that.

well anyways it would certainly get us "players" a spokesperson. ;P hehe

Jandira - Sanctuary

If there was a simple way to say what players have an issue with instead of the QQing, complaining, flaming, protests, and cursing. If a GA can help with that then I'm all for it.

There are so many things that seem like they should be simple fixes but because they end up being made such a big deal, I think that's where we lose contact with the GMs. Forums are huge and in no way simple. And I don't even want to think about the immense amount of tickets submitted for pointless things.

If a GA can communicate with the GMs to get the answers and then be able to relay those to the players, I think it'd help. We always ask why but rarely do we get an answer. I think THAT is the big frustration.

Someone that can weed out the stupid complaints to find the real problems and then relay those problems and get an answer / solution would be awesome.

alsetalokin

Bananas are tasty.

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

Bump !

Yeah it would be nice to see that plan moving forward a bit faster b:victory

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Jandira - Sanctuary wrote: »

If there was a simple way to say what players have an issue with instead of the QQing, complaining, flaming, protests, and cursing. If a GA can help with that then I'm all for it.

There are so many things that seem like they should be simple fixes but because they end up being made such a big deal, I think that's where we lose contact with the GMs. Forums are huge and in no way simple. And I don't even want to think about the immense amount of tickets submitted for pointless things.

If a GA can communicate with the GMs to get the answers and then be able to relay those to the players, I think it'd help. We always ask why but rarely do we get an answer. I think THAT is the big frustration.

Someone that can weed out the stupid complaints to find the real problems and then relay those problems and get an answer / solution would be awesome.

Well, hopefully this plan moves forward since apparently more GM availability isn't possible. :P

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, hopefully this plan moves forward since apparently more GM availability isn't possible. :P

If only it could move way forward fast, it would be awesome, because I think this community needs some lovin' the GMs can't give b:laugh

Frankie, we need you now !

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If only it could move way forward fast, it would be awesome, because I think this community needs some lovin' the GMs can't give b:laugh

Frankie, we need you now !

Bump cuz it's Tuesday

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

In theory.....good idea.

In practice......probably bad.

I say bad because a GA would get abused. And take abuse that had nothing to do with them. People would QQ to them about the slightest things. That's expected tho, and would just need to be filtered/handled by the individual GA.
But the worst part (which is what may keep many from doing or quitting such a job) is you know they would take abuse. Just look at the abuse and **** mods take/deal with here on the forums from people lashing out at GM's. Or the abuse GM's take from people lashing out at things that are out of their control and are rather controlled by developers on another continent.
I just see a GA becoming a punching bag for people who want to bash GMs and the devs.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In theory.....good idea.

In practice......probably bad.

I say bad because a GA would get abused. And take abuse that had nothing to do with them. People would QQ to them about the slightest things. That's expected tho, and would just need to be filtered/handled by the individual GA.
But the worst part (which is what may keep many from doing or quitting such a job) is you know they would take abuse. Just look at the abuse and **** mods take/deal with here on the forums from people lashing out at GM's. Or the abuse GM's take from people lashing out at things that are out of their control and are rather controlled by developers on another continent.
I just see a GA becoming a punching bag for people who want to bash GMs and the devs.

Yeah, which is why I initially wanted just more GM presence, because at least they'd get paid. I'd imagine that GAs would be like mods but only in game, and would be voluntary....

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In theory.....good idea.

In practice......probably bad.

I say bad because a GA would get abused. And take abuse that had nothing to do with them. People would QQ to them about the slightest things. That's expected tho, and would just need to be filtered/handled by the individual GA.
But the worst part (which is what may keep many from doing or quitting such a job) is you know they would take abuse. Just look at the abuse and **** mods take/deal with here on the forums from people lashing out at GM's. Or the abuse GM's take from people lashing out at things that are out of their control and are rather controlled by developers on another continent.
I just see a GA becoming a punching bag for people who want to bash GMs and the devs.

Yeah why not, but here is where the idea is clever : GAs are people like you and me. Which means that if there is some over-qqing about things that don't even make sense even after you calmly explained that there is nothing you can do to fix it yourself, you can pretty much tell people to shut up, as you would if you were a random user. You are not a PWE employee, even if you receive some compensation, therefore you don't have to be commercial. Of course, you don't have to abuse of that power, I agree.
But if we keep creating positions and not give them any power to keep the ship from sinking, we're not going anywhere, flooded by endless waves of QQ and ragequit.

VenusArmani wrote:

Yeah, which is why I initially wanted just more GM presence, because at least they'd get paid. I'd imagine that GAs would be like mods but only in game, and would be voluntary....

I'm not doing this job (which promises to be hard and somehow frustrating) for the glory. Therefore, GAs will need compansation. No one would do it otherwise (or only who really do strive for attention and social recognition).


Drak.

krittycat

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not doing this job (which promises to be hard and somehow frustrating) for the glory. Therefore, GAs will need compansation. No one would do it otherwise (or only who really do strive for attention and social recognition).


Drak.

Now we just need this to apply to forum mods.b:chuckle

Or, I have a better idea... Make the forum mods BE the GAs!b:victory

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

KrittyCat wrote: »

Now we just need this to apply to forum mods.b:chuckle

Or, I have a better idea... Make the forum mods BE the GAs!b:victory

You really would use the "shut up" button, wouldn't you ? b:laugh
And no, you can't be GA AND mod. You'd go crazy anyway...


Drak.

krisnda

KrittyCat wrote: »

Now we just need this to apply to forum mods.b:chuckle

Or, I have a better idea... Make the forum mods BE the GAs!b:victory

Krisnda wrote: »

In another game that I play, the moderators (on their forums) have this type of job and actually have a "Moderator" tag above their name in-game.

Overall, I think this would be a good idea, implemented correctly, and it would be nice to get more help

b:surrender

However, I do disagree with paying them, as that would make even more QQ ><

Decus - Dreamweaver

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(or only who really do strive for attention and social recognition).

There are plenty that would do it just for this reason alone. The problem is those same people are not the ones we would want handling interpersonal interactions b:chuckle

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah why not, but here is where the idea is clever : GAs are people like you and me. Which means that if there is some over-qqing about things that don't even make sense even after you calmly explained that there is nothing you can do to fix it yourself, you can pretty much tell people to shut up, as you would if you were a random user. You are not a PWE employee, even if you receive some compensation, therefore you don't have to be commercial. Of course, you don't have to abuse of that power, I agree.
But if we keep creating positions and not give them any power to keep the ship from sinking, we're not going anywhere, flooded by endless waves of QQ and ragequit.


I'm not doing this job (which promises to be hard and somehow frustrating) for the glory. Therefore, GAs will need compansation. No one would do it otherwise (or only who really do strive for attention and social recognition).


Drak.

I strongly disagree with that sentiment, if you are a paid employee of PWI I think you should have to adhere to certain codes of conduct, including not telling the customers to shutup. Even if they are stupid. I mean, if you are a paid representative of the company then you should behave as such. Which sometimes means smiling when you don't want to do it and then complaining loudly with your friends over some drinks when you get home.

On the other hand, if they were to able to express their true opinions more both to the players and to the PWI management, I'd want that to be on a purely voluntary basis. Doing it because you love the game and want to see it better. I wouldn't want someone doing it for the glory, but I also wouldn't want them to be just another PWI employee collecting money and not really doing anything. Not that you would, but if it was just a job to you that your doing while you wait to do your real thing, it runs the risk of becoming that.

Not to mention it wouldn't really be fair to compensate players for just being players just because they have a brain and can figure out what people actually care about and what they don't. As for being able to be good at the class and giving advice, that only requires playing the game and most older players could easily fit that description. Doesn't mean they would all be good GAs.

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

When I said "tell people to shut up", it was a metaphore. b:chuckle
Of course i'm not going to tell people to shut up, but I won't do like the GMs, that hide somewhere when people are QQing. If the QQ is justified, then go ahead I'll help you get that to a higher level, but if the QQ is just pure QQ because you had a bad day or such, I mean you don't have to bring it up for everyone to see and it won't make the game any better.

Ex : a bug is discovered (omg does that even happen ?!) and as soon as it hits the forums, people are going to be starting to QQ because of this and that, it's game-breaking, blah blah blah. A GA comes by and says 'oh ok, I'll do my best to make PWE work on that ASAP", the ASAP depending on how big the issue is. But if people still come by and reply and/or make threads about how they're not listened to, how the bug is just another that's never gonna be fixed and all that BS, the GA would have the right to say "hey now calm down I said i was gonna do my best to get them to fix it, so stop your QQing and go actually do something productive by the time I have an answer".

You really don't think it'll be fair for them to get paid ?! Is it fair for a GM to get paid and not do sht ?
GAs are going to be the QQ shield of the community, which means 100 of PMs a day, 100 of topics to read, rate and 100 of emails to send to PWE so they do what's necessary. That means all the less time to have fun PLAYING the game.
Do you really expect people to do that for free ?! Would you ?

I have to disagree with you Venus, it takes more than a brain to get what people wants. SOME will want this, but others will QQ and will want the opposite. A GA will have to think of what would be best for the GAME, and not to satisfy the best QQer nor himself.

And I disagree with you also, Krisnda : getting GA paid in IG Gold would benefit the economy = more gold injected into the economy = lower rates gold/coins = less QQ.
There will be jealousy, yes of course. But asking for it not to happen would be to ask for the fire not to burn.


Drak.

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear

Bump because it's Wednesday, you gotta be bumped on Wednesday b:victory

Lillemy - Sanctuary

The system works pretty good in other games, and since frankie and company is too lazy to do their job, I think it's a good idea. Some help is better than none

aclucius318

Better yet, just give me GM power, I'll go around the servers and ban anyone glitching, cheating, scamming, or any other violation that I see. That will fix some problems. b:chuckle

Seriously though, it would be a good idea, but I have a feeling it wouldn't work out. The only sensible way that it could be done would be to give each class a designated GA, as well as each server. However, it runs into problems of what if a problem comes up on one server that isn't a problem on another. Who is listened to? What happens when one is disappointed with the outcome?

I can only see this going badly if it wasn't implemented just right with the right people. On top of that, suddenly the GA's would be restricted in what they could tell us, causing the players to turn on them as well. That or the GA's would get the same silence we get and nothing would be fixed.

I just don't see this kind of thing going well. As sad as I am to say it, I would prefer this to not be implemented, though that is just my opinion.

krittycat

Drakaniel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When I said "tell people to shut up", it was a metaphore. b:chuckle
Of course i'm not going to tell people to shut up, but I won't do like the GMs, that hide somewhere when people are QQing. If the QQ is justified, then go ahead I'll help you get that to a higher level, but if the QQ is just pure QQ because you had a bad day or such, I mean you don't have to bring it up for everyone to see and it won't make the game any better.

Ex : a bug is discovered (omg does that even happen ?!) and as soon as it hits the forums, people are going to be starting to QQ because of this and that, it's game-breaking, blah blah blah. A GA comes by and says 'oh ok, I'll do my best to make PWE work on that ASAP", the ASAP depending on how big the issue is. But if people still come by and reply and/or make threads about how they're not listened to, how the bug is just another that's never gonna be fixed and all that BS, the GA would have the right to say "hey now calm down I said i was gonna do my best to get them to fix it, so stop your QQing and go actually do something productive by the time I have an answer".

You really don't think it'll be fair for them to get paid ?! Is it fair for a GM to get paid and not do sht ?
GAs are going to be the QQ shield of the community, which means 100 of PMs a day, 100 of topics to read, rate and 100 of emails to send to PWE so they do what's necessary. That means all the less time to have fun PLAYING the game.
Do you really expect people to do that for free ?! Would you ?

I have to disagree with you Venus, it takes more than a brain to get what people wants. SOME will want this, but others will QQ and will want the opposite. A GA will have to think of what would be best for the GAME, and not to satisfy the best QQer nor himself.

And I disagree with you also, Krisnda : getting GA paid in IG Gold would benefit the economy = more gold injected into the economy = lower rates gold/coins = less QQ.
There will be jealousy, yes of course. But asking for it not to happen would be to ask for the fire not to burn.


Drak.

This sounds kind of like what the moderators already do here on the forums and in-game. Trust me, I get plenty of PMs when I use World Chat.b:chuckle

I really don't see the point in them trying to find other players who are suitable candidates for a position that is as unnecessary as this one is. Anyway, it's time for this thread to go to the place where it belongs, the Suggestion Box.

mcfreakie

KrittyCat wrote: »

This sounds kind of like what the moderators already do here on the forums and in-game. Trust me, I get plenty of PMs when I use World Chat.b:chuckle

I really don't see the point in them trying to find other players who are suitable candidates for a position that is as unnecessary as this one is. Anyway, it's time for this thread to go to the place where it belongs, the Suggestion Box.

Yes but no offense based on what we have seen from this Secret Passage blunder... and you push the poll on moving PK to yet another place were quests are located and wont even support the poll YOU should have initiated when this blunder was discovered or before the blunder happened which is:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1180731&page=9