APS solutions

Sakubatou - Sanctuary

You got it backwards with yor calculations. You used aps to get -int when actually its the -int that the game uses and the aps is the calculated feature.

You used:
1/.86 =1.16
1/.81 =1.24
1/.76 =1.32
1/.71 = 1.41

When really it is:
1/.85= 1.11
1/.8= 1.25
1/.75= 1.33
1/.7 = 1.43

The -int used is the constant that interval effects and the game uses to calculate, the attack speed displayed in the character screen is the rounded up/down calculated number. Because you use inverses as you get exponential growth of attack speeds. If you could go beyond 5 aps one more piece of -.05 would give you 6.66 aps, and max attack speed would be a fist sin/archer with 10 aps.

Anyways, better suggestions have been increase dmg reduction on bosses to make aggro skills (who's aggro amount isn't effected dmg reduction) more effective. Right now its at about 1/6th on [?] bosses but if it went to 1/20th a barb would be able to keep aggro.

Other good suggestions have been having bosses randomly bramble themselves so aps players have to watch what they're doing and stop/slow down their attacks when the boss brambles.

Lastly, make -int give a flat rate instead of an exponential rate. Instead of -.05 int between attacks, give +.2 aps or something. Although for many people this would break the game.



Remember, most the farming in this server is done by -int squads. If -int is nerfed than items will become really scarce and really expensive. People will have a hard time advancing their gear in the game. Many of us remember 3 hour TTs before the aps craze. Its easy enough to create an aps alt to farm for your other chars. Plus, aps classes are majorly gimped in many of the events that ranged classes own so it is a nice way to even things out. I don't see a reason to nerf aps, maybe just make the gear for acquiring it harder.

Fenrina - Heavens Tear

I'm a bit too tired to make much of a reply out of anything so I'll just leave it at a thought that's been in the back of my mind.

People keep on talking about how the items needed for aps have been available since the beginning. For the September 2008 release of pwi, I'll believe that. The thing is, perfect world is two and a half to three years older than our release.

Does anyone have any solid info on what was available for the July 2005 release? If someone wants to look at what the devs originally thought, that's where to start.

Xarathox - Dreamweaver

Fenrina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm a bit too tired to make much of a reply out of anything so I'll just leave it at a thought that's been in the back of my mind.

People keep on talking about how the items needed for aps have been available since the beginning. For the September 2008 release of pwi, I'll believe that. The thing is, perfect world is two and a half to three years older than our release.

Does anyone have any solid info on what was available for the July 2005 release? If someone wants to look at what the devs originally thought, that's where to start.

When I first started out (jan '09), a lot of older players from PW-MY and CN who still played have stated that the hidden -int. bonus was originally on TT90 gold, rather than TT99. And the only way to even obtain it was to mix 2 LA pieces and 2 HA pieces.

Sometime around the Age of Spirits (Genie expansion) the bonus was moved to TT99, and changed to having only 2 pieces of HA or LA required instead of 4 mismatched. However, I can't verify that...

Taarna - Harshlands

this is wat i think you all over looking, most 5aps people also have a non aps char. the ease of lving anymore, kinda seems that how the devs are thinking. the aps for pvp is kinda whole different story though, might as well quit or go sin at this point lolz.

Lyritha - Heavens Tear

APS does not need a fix... what needs fixing is the faction you are in. If you are in a faction and cannot find runs due to the class you are then maybe you should re-evaluate what sorry place you are wasting your time in and look elsewhere.

moonveno

my opinion they dont need to nerf aps, if u ask me, just develop smth that every squadd must be rainbow squadd concernin instances.
this way as it is where ever i turn my head i see only fishes in this game(sins)

IDecision - Raging Tide

Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Remember, most the farming in this server is done by -int squads. If -int is nerfed than items will become really scarce and really expensive. People will have a hard time advancing their gear in the game. Many of us remember 3 hour TTs before the aps craze. Its easy enough to create an aps alt to farm for your other chars. Plus, aps classes are majorly gimped in many of the events that ranged classes own so it is a nice way to even things out. I don't see a reason to nerf aps, maybe just make the gear for acquiring it harder.

Well there it is. Everyone has aps now and they're used to the game on easy mode. mean while classes have become completely inbalanced. It seems really dumb to me that a wiz cant go farm gear the same way an aps toon can. You know i get it. People invested time and money into a broken aspect of the game because it pays off. How about if they fix high aps with one of the suggestions you listed, but make bosses take less time to kill. You know, still challenging, but not 5 aps faceroll (profit???) and still fun. This way classes are still being able to see content regardless of class and attack speed. Im mean really pwi what the **** lol. This is basic shiit you are supposed to keep your game balanced. R9 faceroll is one thing but your god damn game is broken with high aps. Fix it. Thanks.

_Aro_ - Lost City

nerfing aps will only make a thousand people ragequit. just roll a sin and farm ur own gear if ur a caster. and casters are OP in pvp anyway - any suggestions of amping them in any way is stupid. but sin is most OP ofc. and they dont even need aps, are better without it even. just r9 zerk crit and one shot everyone. a BM on the other hand isnt likely to kill ANYONE even WITH 5 aps, considering hundreds of people have full r9+12 now. leave it as it is. just nerf sin and put cc back in to give BM a chance at all

IDecision - Raging Tide

_Aro_ - Lost City wrote: »

nerfing aps will only make a thousand people ragequit.

Because they've invested all this time and money into a broken game mechanic that lets them hit really fast and become invincible every 15 seconds, and also get to kill end game bosses in about 10 mins depending on your aps. cool now that we've established how the game is broken and why people like it so much maybe pwi can get around to fixing it without upsetting the people who went well out of there way to exploit this.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver

For those of you who don't seem to understand the mechanics of -int. The -int reduces seconds per attack. Not the other way around.

Edit: Lemme see if this pic works.

http://i623.photobucket.com/albums/tt319/raindeux/Aps.jpg

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Revenge - Raging Tide wrote: »

explain to me how it wasnt? pan gu tome, tt99 la and ha bonus's tt100 fists and -int cape which was completly attainable. that would = 3.33 aps base which with spark is 5.0. real sorry to burst your little bubble there. as for "not playing during those times" i've been here since pwi closed beta day 1 lmao. started on lost city. got quickly tired of this game and quit and played on and off from then till today. (btw if u dont believe me about the aps then here ya go http://pwcalc.com/7f9e68e86e5b5b6f only a quick over-view but still, what would have been similiar to the end game aps of the time.[cape may have changed i forget the original -int cape back then])

but as i said, wasn't cheap but was attainable. was then as R9 is to us today in terms of attainability.

pan gu tome, -int cape WEREN'T in game. Run trophy and lunar cape was introduced much time later. Lot of people have short memory.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Fenrina - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm a bit too tired to make much of a reply out of anything so I'll just leave it at a thought that's been in the back of my mind.

People keep on talking about how the items needed for aps have been available since the beginning. For the September 2008 release of pwi, I'll believe that. The thing is, perfect world is two and a half to three years older than our release.

Does anyone have any solid info on what was available for the July 2005 release? If someone wants to look at what the devs originally thought, that's where to start.

It wouldn't have mattered anyway.

All that would have been needed is a dev who absentmindedly programmed an aps calculation the first way that popped into his head... or an item designer who didn't understand (or didn't even know) what stacking -int would do to the calculation made by the dev... or just a lack of communication between the two, even... and you'd end up with a situation like we have today. And all of those examples are situations in which the team (as it were) did not intend for the APS debacles we have today. :P

Quilue - Sanctuary

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

pan gu tome, -int cape WEREN'T in game. Run trophy and lunar cape was introduced much time later. Lot of people have short memory.

Pang Gu tome would have eventually been attainable. People were already making Voidlands before packs. It was just a matter of time before they made the other pieces needed for Creation. Lunar cape, you mean the one that gave -int but wasn't the Wing Trophy? People were already starting to obtain Lunar items before packs, some had the green equipment and were just waiting to chip the gold mats. Lunar cape wasn't introduced "much later," we were looking at the forges way before packs came out.

In fact, forget TT100, people would have Deicides by now as well if no packs existed.

It would simply have been a matter of time. Guess you didn't know what the top of the server were doing back then did you?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Pang Gu tome would have eventually been attainable. People were already making Voidlands before packs. It was just a matter of time before they made the other pieces needed for Creation. Lunar cape, you mean the one that gave -int but wasn't the Wing Trophy? People were already starting to obtain Lunar items before packs, some had the green equipment and were just waiting to chip the gold mats. Lunar cape wasn't introduced "much later," we were looking at the forges way before packs came out.

In fact, forget TT100, people would have Deicides by now as well if no packs existed.

It would simply have been a matter of time. Guess you didn't know what the top of the server were doing back then did you?

Yeap these lunar cape wasn't there. Also I don't remember the name. The cape you can obtain from fb 69,79,89 etc. trophy mode. It wasn't there also. Also you could have tome. Because highest tome was lv.5 and it doesn't have -int.
http://janelh.wikidot.com/charms On this page is actually every armor and weapon you could have since open beta. It doesn't include the new gear. So you can check what you could farm.

_Perses_ - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

pan gu tome, -int cape WEREN'T in game. Run trophy and lunar cape was introduced much time later. Lot of people have short memory.

Uhhm....Wow....I hope your trolling and not being serious ._.


Pan Gu has been around the WHOLE time that the forges in 1k streams have been around. Along with this, the Capes that give -int have been around also with Lunar.



So...yeah..........

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

_Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »

Uhhm....Wow....I hope your trolling and not being serious ._.


Pan Gu has been around the WHOLE time that the forges in 1k streams have been around. Along with this, the Capes that give -int have been around also with Lunar.



So...yeah..........

OMG. Why you lying? Obviously you didn't play at that time. So why you need to lie? Pan gu is lv. 6 tome. It was NOT there since open beta. You could obtain JUST lv. 5 tomes NOT 6. Check the link what I posted there is gear what you could obtain. So f... off.

Pandaberr - Lost City

This thread has gotten way off track. Its about a potential solution to APS. Not about when this or that gear came out.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

just because it wasnt made available at the time of open beta doesnt mean it wasnt intended to be implemented, tomes all the way up to lvl 8 exist, they just havent been made available.
the only gear that has been added that wasnt originally in the game is nirvana and rank9, the rest of it has always been there(asside from the new class ****) including trophy mode, lunar interval capes and lvl. 6 tomes. there is still lots of content that hasnt been unlocked.

Pandaberr - Lost City wrote: »

I just wanted to say, that I don't think the original implementation of the sparks were meant to be used chained together to form a "permaspark". There seem to be a few debates on things and how they were originally intended to be used, I think APS is one of those things...

Pandaberr - Lost City wrote: »

This thread has gotten way off track. Its about a potential solution to APS. Not about when this or that gear came out.

you're the one that brought it up.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

just because it wasnt made available at the time of open beta doesnt mean it wasnt intended to be implemented, tomes all the way up to lvl 8 exist, they just havent been made available.
the only gear that has been added that wasnt originally in the game is nirvana and rank9, the rest of it has always been there(asside from the new class ****) including trophy mode, lunar interval capes and lvl. 6 tomes. there is still lots of content that hasnt been unlocked.





you're the one that brought it up.

Yep maybe. Who knows. China didn't have it also at that time.
I just HATE when some1 twisting the truth and telling it was here all the time, because it not true. That's all.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Pointing out which gear wasn't available only points further to the fact that this was fully intentional.
They kept adding in the gear to do it since cbeta, or unlocking previously unavailable but already conceived of gear (whichever theory you subscribe to), and purposely stuck a capped limit on the max speed that was attainable with it.

This is why it will never be 'fixed'. It's not 'broken'. It is a part of the game mechanic that was always intended - that it was, I believe, originally meant to be a super-elite end-game build.
What went wrong, that irks so many of you, is the common availabilty for it. This, I don't believe, was ever intended. This is why there's no in-game compensation for it. This was purposefully done, but it was never expected that the sheer amount of people would have access to it like we do today.
Would this be QQ'd about so much if it was still only available via farming, or still cost thousands and thousands of dollars? No, coz there'd only be a handful of people running around with it, if that.

XMiyala - Dreamweaver

I wish people would stop thinking up "aps solutions". There is no solution. Aps is here, and always will be, unless an update says other wise. Until then there is no getting around it.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

Simple answer: It is a balance issue. Has there ever once been a positive attempt by Wanmei to balance the classes? Umm... Umm... Umm... Umm... No.

In 3+ years of this game existing, there has never once been an attempt to balance the existing classes. Thus, it becomes quite obvious that there is no way in hell that the APS cap will ever change, -int gear will ever work differently, or anything of that sort.

Want to play a game that is balanced? Play a pay to play MMO. The good ones will make tweaks to class skills up to once a week in a constant effort to balance the classes, and keep it from being just 2 classes dominating. 5 year old p2p MMO's are up to their 6th or 7th expansions now, so there's a lot of content. And if you combine the cost of the game itself with 10 years of subscription, it still costs less than R9. Hell, 100 years of subscription for most P2P MMO's is less than R9 refined to +12, and ****, you still gotta buy a Nix if you are a Veno and wanna TW, or a Herc if you solo instances. There's another 10 months of subscriptions..

PWE is a freaking money hole if you want to get R9 and refine it and get a Nix and Herc and buy all of the shards and blah blah. You don't have to do that... But playing a P2P MMO, you basically get the same gear in the end, and it costs a **** ton less.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yep maybe. Who knows. China didn't have it also at that time.
I just HATE when some1 twisting the truth and telling it was here all the time, because it not true. That's all.

why do you care anyway, didnt you quit a year ago? are you a wizard in real life? did blademaster with 5aps take you real life job?

THEY TOOK HIS JOB!

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why do you care anyway, didnt you quit a year ago? are you a wizard in real life? did blademaster with 5aps take you real life job?

THEY TOOK HIS JOB!

DEY TOOOK 'EEEEEEEEEES JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOB!!!!!!!

b:angry b:angry b:angry

brent40

I wish they would stop fixing class issues, then I could still tripple glicth endgame barbs to death. b:angry

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why do you care anyway, didnt you quit a year ago? are you a wizard in real life? did blademaster with 5aps take you real life job?

THEY TOOK HIS JOB!

THEY TOOK HIS JERB!...... DURKA DURR b:laugh

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Pandaberr - Lost City wrote: »

This thread has gotten way off track. Its about a potential solution to APS. Not about when this or that gear came out.

This.

This is what I was saying, like five pages ago. The pro-APSers are welcome to their opinion, but this is a thread built around fixing APS. As far as I'm concerned, they're welcome to make their own little clubhouse for the preservation of their beloved... *cough* "feature," and they'd have the same right for us to not come and **** on their doorstep.

But then, they're already trying to hijack this thread anyway, so maybe the point is moot. >_>

[/notsosubtlehint]

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why do you care anyway, didnt you quit a year ago? are you a wizard in real life? did blademaster with 5aps take you real life job?

THEY TOOK HIS JOB!

Yep I quit. Then I came back and played sin for 3-4 months. Now I'm done again. Sin is terribly boring compare to wizard. Till dev. not rebalance classes I will not play again. But I want to show another people what's the game really is. Just money sink hole with 2 prevailing classes. And the worst. Terribly unbalanced. Not just in PVP but PVE also.

asldfkj

why are people so stupid and ignorant, the game revolves around TW. And in TW aps is pretty irrelevant. 5 aps archer will use bow in tw, not hes fists/claws.......

Anyone who brings up mass pvp (wich tw is) then that is geting tottaly ingored. People are just jealous and butthurt that THEY dont have 5 aps sin. And no brainzzz to make some money with vendor shops.

Only thing i agree that non aps people have harder time in pve (nirvy).

Omg rank8/9 wiz can oneshot a bm, nerf it, omg having -60% channeling, lets fix it as fast as possible.

Omg archer, they can 2-3 shot arcanes, we need to nerf them.

Omg barbs use their armageddon and aoe and kill everyone, armageddon needs to be nerfed.

Omg lvl 90(even lvl 70 with uber gear) seeker with bp dosent need any other classes to solo all the pulls in FC, including big pull. Nerf the vortex.

OMg people who can use their computer 24/7 and have vendor shops open make millions per day. Nerf the time when you can hold vendor shops open.

Omg people are grinding 5 hours a day, you should limit that to 2 hours.

Omg ... etc

In the end there can be too many sins like in dreamwaver server, it shows that they are not OP class, since when it REALLY matters (TW) they are not overpowered

Kaste - Sanctuary

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

why do you care anyway, didnt you quit a year ago? are you a wizard in real life? did blademaster with 5aps take you real life job?

THEY TOOK HIS JOB!

Oh nooesss deey tooook es jooooob!


And I think I seen your alt. b:chuckle