Multi-Clienting Rule Changes

jiq · May 2011

QUESTION!!

I have 2 active playing accounts and this account only to post in the forum (no characters on this one). I am overprotective and too scared to post on my main, I don't want to get ****. :S Is it allowed to have a 'forum only' account? x_x If not, I will never login to this anymore.

krittycat · May 2011

jiq wrote: »

QUESTION!!

I have 2 active playing accounts and this account only to post in the forum (no characters on this one). I am overprotective and too scared to post on my main, I don't want to get ****. :S Is it allowed to have a 'forum only' account? x_x If not, I will never login to this anymore.

As long as A) it was created before the rule change, and

you are logging into 2 gaming accounts at any time, you're fine.

Thanks for asking!b:thanks

jiq · May 2011

KrittyCat wrote: »

As long as A) it was created before the rule change, and you are logging into 2 gaming accounts at any time, you're fine.

Thanks for asking!b:thanks

Awesome, ty so much for the reply! b:victory

cewoo1 · May 2011

A few months ago I had a recurring problem with the marriage quest on nameless isle, the one where a giant spider has to be killed to save a man. Problem was often when I killed the spider the man was not there for me to collect on the quest, requiring me to go again and kill the giant spider a second time to make the man appear.

I have 3 computers. To find out what was going on I logged in a third client to stand where the man was meant to be so I could see what was going on there while my married couple were killing the giant spider on another island.

Before I did this I explained my intent on the support site. The response I got was words of encouragement, with an offer to enlist GM support to help with my investigation.

This two clients only policy now means I would be unable to conduct similar investigations on problems I encounter.

In times past I have been involved in BH's where the squad disbands after the 2nd boss. I do not have the patience to solo a 3 alt squad through all 3 BHs, but this 2 clients only policy means I cannot now use 2 other alts(cleric and barb) to help finish off an aborted BH.

Instead of mercilessly banning more than 2 concurrent logins, I think it would be better to allow them where it is shown there is a genuine need. For instance, if it is detected that a person does have 3 active logins, and if the person has a reason that seems fair and is plausible, then I do not think it is right to just ban those 3 accounts because of the 2 clients only policy.

Now for my question. Why is there a limit on the number of active logins a single person can have, and why is it restricted to two?

Samurai_Jack - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Ohh yeah,so I can use 2 characters from 1 account on diffirent computers??
Gona lvl my cleric then

Promivius - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Samurai_Jack - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ohh yeah,so I can use 2 characters from 1 account on diffirent computers??
Gona lvl my cleric then

Database locking system say anything?
No?

Look it up and you know the answer....

Promivius - Dreamweaver · May 2011

cewoo1 wrote: »

A few months ago I had a recurring problem with the marriage quest on nameless isle, the one where a giant spider has to be killed to save a man. Problem was often when I killed the spider the man was not there for me to collect on the quest, requiring me to go again and kill the giant spider a second time to make the man appear.

I have 3 computers. To find out what was going on I logged in a third client to stand where the man was meant to be so I could see what was going on there while my married couple were killing the giant spider on another island.

Before I did this I explained my intent on the support site. The response I got was words of encouragement, with an offer to enlist GM support to help with my investigation.

This two clients only policy now means I would be unable to conduct similar investigations on problems I encounter.

In times past I have been involved in BH's where the squad disbands after the 2nd boss. I do not have the patience to solo a 3 alt squad through all 3 BHs, but this 2 clients only policy means I cannot now use 2 other alts(cleric and barb) to help finish off an aborted BH.

Instead of mercilessly banning more than 2 concurrent logins, I think it would be better to allow them where it is shown there is a genuine need. For instance, if it is detected that a person does have 3 active logins, and if the person has a reason that seems fair and is plausible, then I do not think it is right to just ban those 3 accounts because of the 2 clients only policy.

Now for my question. Why is there a limit on the number of active logins a single person can have, and why is it restricted to two?

Anti-bot rule.
There, you have your answer. Will PWI admit this?

....

Voila, answer right there.

Samurai_Jack - Dreamweaver · May 2011

yeah,gona pass lvl the cleric I usually post then read b:laugh

cewoo1 · May 2011

Promivius - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Anti-bot rule.
There, you have your answer. Will PWI admit this?

....

Voila, answer right there.

Thanks for your response Promivius.

Okay, well, my playing style is to use my 3 computers to multi-log on occasions when it is appropriate to do so, such as failed dungeon crawls. If I cannot now do this, then it saddens me to say that I think I am now finished with PWI.

Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Nobody cares if you're finished with PWI. You can now have up to 2 accounts logged on. If you need extra services for "occasions when it is appropriate to do so, such as failed dungeon crawls"... get a squad.

stevelangley · May 2011

The only thing I will say here is this. If you are allowed to have 2 accounts logged in then that means 2 characters at a time. Why does it force it to be 2 accounts? Why not have the ability to login 2 characters from 1 account? It would make it easier to manage from my point of view. I would not need to remember 2 usernames and passwords for another PWI account and setup another email address just to do so.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Why are so many ppl complaining about this? Having 2 characters only at the same time each person is already a good thing right? And now it goes for everyone! Even my crappy pc can handle 2 clients with best performance on... And now some ppl are complaining cause they don't have the old advantage annymore? Geez not everyone that plays this game is rich in rl you know... Some of us can't efford to buy lot's of pc's... I'm glad that for once a rule has bin made to even out the ballence between the rich and the less rich... And hey it's a new experience for you rich ppl also... Try squading up with other ppl for a change... You know this being a MMO and all...

FiDollaYou - Sanctuary · May 2011

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why are so many ppl complaining about this? Having 2 characters only at the same time each person is already a good thing right? And now it goes for everyone! Even my crappy pc can handle 2 clients with best performance on... And now some ppl are complaining cause they don't have the old advantage annymore?

The complaining comes from having the rug pulled out from under people, particularly couple with a complete change in what the GMs/Mods have been telling folks all along ("If you want to multi-box, use separate computers, and we won't enforce any limits on the number you can have as long as it's not excessive").

Imagine, as a veno, if tomorrow they decided that you can only have 4 pets in your bag - nobody needs more than 1 land, 1 water, 1 air, and 1 pet, right?

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Geez not everyone that plays this game is rich in rl you know... Some of us can't efford to buy lot's of pc's... I'm glad that for once a rule has bin made to even out the ballence between the rich and the less rich...

Has nothing to do with being rich. Many, many, many people have more than one PC. Heck, I have 6 myself, only two of which I spent more than a few dollars on, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

It has nothing to do with balancing the rich/poor and more to do with balancing out the lazy with the folks who roll their own for a few bucks.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And hey it's a new experience for you rich ppl also... Try squading up with other ppl for a change... You know this being a MMO and all...

I much prefer squadding. It was always a pain in the *** trying to 3- or 4-box a bh instance, so I only did it when necessary. But, when you log on at 1 AM because that's the only chance you have to play, and nobody is looking to do the BH you need, AND you only have an hour or so to play... well it's either run the instance by myself with the Parade of Alts or spend my hour looking for a squad.

Now, the only thing I can do is waste my time and not run the instance anyway.

Escorian - Dreamweaver · May 2011

FiDollaYou - Sanctuary wrote: »

The complaining comes from having the rug pulled out from under people, particularly couple with a complete change in what the GMs/Mods have been telling folks all along ("If you want to multi-box, use separate computers, and we won't enforce any limits on the number you can have as long as it's not excessive").

Imagine, as a veno, if tomorrow they decided that you can only have 4 pets in your bag - nobody needs more than 1 land, 1 water, 1 air, and 1 pet, right?

Has nothing to do with being rich. Many, many, many people have more than one PC. Heck, I have 6 myself, only two of which I spent more than a few dollars on, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

It has nothing to do with balancing the rich/poor and more to do with balancing out the lazy with the folks who roll their own for a few bucks.

I much prefer squadding. It was always a pain in the *** trying to 3- or 4-box a bh instance, so I only did it when necessary. But, when you log on at 1 AM because that's the only chance you have to play, and nobody is looking to do the BH you need, AND you only have an hour or so to play... well it's either run the instance by myself with the Parade of Alts or spend my hour looking for a squad.

Now, the only thing I can do is waste my time and not run the instance anyway.

all you need to do is tank and heal the instance obviously if you could do it before with the 3-4 characters you can do it with just your tank and healer, b:bye

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

all you need to do is tank and heal the instance obviously if you could do it before with the 3-4 characters you can do it with just your tank and healer, b:bye

I have to agree with this... b:laugh

@FiDollaYou: And I still think it's a good thing... Having 2 characters online at the same time is a good amount and it works for everyone even those who only are able to use one pc (not everyone is as lucky as FiDollaYou)... On any game I've played I never had the urge of playing more then 2 characters at one time and I think that goes for a lot of ppl... How the heck are you planning to control 4 characters annyway? Using 2 and put the others on follow 'till they're 100 and brag about how pro they are? In some way it takes away the purpose of "playing" with your characters... Just be happy for the 1-pc ppl that they can also enjoy multiclienting now and quit complaining... If you've bin here for over 1,5 year you should know by now it won't help to complain annyway...

BTW... Wanna bet that 9 of 10 ppl won't quit even if they say they're gonna rage-quit now... b:chuckle

cewoo1 · May 2011

Gorgonnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Nobody cares if you're finished with PWI. You can now have up to 2 accounts logged on. If you need extra services for "occasions when it is appropriate to do so, such as failed dungeon crawls"... get a squad.

Thanks for being so understanding and caring. You have won me over as a friend for life...

I have already stated that I do squad for BH, but not all BH squads end well.

I work for a living. When the squad I'm in fails it's usually already been an hour or longer squad wipe fest. I do not have time to start over with a new squad just to get the last BH in my stack. On these occasions I finish the BH off with the help of my alts. Well, I did, but now when the alt I'm playing is neither a tank nor a healer I can't, because of the 2 clients only per person rule.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

cewoo1 wrote: »

Thanks for being so understanding and caring. You have won me over as a friend for life...

I have already stated that I do squad for BH, but not all BH squads end well.

I work for a living. When the squad I'm in fails it's usually already been an hour or longer squad wipe fest. I do not have time to start over with a new squad just to get the last BH in my stack. On these occasions I finish the BH off with the help of my alts. Well, I did, but now when the alt I'm playing is neither a tank nor a healer I can't, because of the 2 clients only per person rule.

Welcome to the life some of us had before the rule change... Those with just 1 pc always had to do everything with just one character... So maybe now you might understand why the change is good to a lot of ppl...

cewoo1 · May 2011

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Welcome to the life some of us had before the rule change... Those with just 1 pc always had to do everything with just one character... So maybe now you might understand why the change is good to a lot of ppl...

What's with all this QQ about being stuck with just 1 PC?

Define what you mean by "the change is good to a lot of ppl"

I don't have just 1 PC, I have three, and now the only reason why I can't log in with all of them is politics. How is that a good thing?

I'm not rich. My brother upgraded to a better computer and gave me his old one. Same with his laptop. The life you say some people had before the rule change is the life I had before my brother gave me his old computers, and I hated it. Now, with no reason given for it, I am being forced to not be able to log in with my 3 PCs, and I don't like it at all.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

cewoo1 wrote: »

What's with all this QQ about being stuck with just 1 PC?

Define what you mean by "the change is good to a lot of ppl"

I don't have just 1 PC, I have three, and now the only reason why I can't log in with all of them is politics. How is that a good thing?

I'm not rich. My brother upgraded to a better computer and gave me his old one. Same with his laptop. The life you say some people had before the rule change is the life I had before my brother gave me his old computers, and I hated it. Now, with no reason given for it, I am being forced to not be able to log in with my 3 PCs, and I don't like it at all.

Why don't you start explaining why ppl should buy more pc's to be allowed to log in more characters... And even though it might be a bit hard to believe but some ppl are actualy stuck with one pc... I for one am not a spoiled brat that goes wining to ppl that I need more pc's just to multi at one game... 1 pc is enough for all my needs... And now I'm happy that I can multi on 1... And even if that means some ppl who have more pc's have to play a less more overpowered or in advantage of themselves I still think this change is for the good... Now EVERYONE can multi... If they have 1 pc or more... What part of this change isn't good?

Annalyse - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What part of this change isn't good?

Maybe if you were one of the families being constantly worried about a ban out of nowhere you would care.

Ban first, question later!

It is not a good way to deal with things.

Yes, this does not affect you badly. Nor I personally; I am happy to be able to multi on my laptop now. However I see what it is doing to other people and I feel badly for them.

I also feel bad for the people that put a lot of money into a certain style of play and are now having that taken away from them. How would you feel if you bought loads of stuff from cash shop and were suddenly denied the right to use them? Also, a friend of mine well-versed in law has said that technically the banning of people that cash shopped for this type of play style is technically illegal, despite that section of the ToS that advises of changes, which makes the situation even more ridiculous. Are they going to end up letting cash-shoppers off and not others, like we see every day now with other violations?

Best to just change things. We've been playing for years with people allowed to multibox and no one was really being hurt by it... I love the multiclient thing for people like myself to have a step up, but see the other addition as only a major complication.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Maybe if you were one of the families being constantly worried about a ban out of nowhere you would care.

Ban first, question later!

It is not a good way to deal with things.

Yes, this does not affect you badly. Nor I personally; I am happy to be able to multi on my laptop now. However I see what it is doing to other people and I feel badly for them.

I also feel bad for the people that put a lot of money into a certain style of play and are now having that taken away from them. How would you feel if you bought loads of stuff from cash shop and were suddenly denied the right to use them? Also, a friend of mine well-versed in law has said that technically the banning of people that cash shopped for this type of play style is technically illegal, despite that section of the ToS that advises of changes, which makes the situation even more ridiculous. Are they going to end up letting cash-shoppers off and not others, like we see every day now with other violations?

Best to just change things. We've been playing for years with people allowed to multibox and no one was really being hurt by it... I love the multiclient thing for people like myself to have a step up, but see the other addition as only a major complication.

I tottaly agree with the ban thing... Mom is realy addicted to the game so it will be a problem if we both got banned... However I haven't had problems so far and both mom and me are happely using the multiclient... But yeah they shouldn't give someone the guilty sign before they're sure about it... And if you put it that way maybe the GM's could allow 3 or 4 each person then... Or maybe they could make a poll to find the right amount... It's not like it will affect me annyway if they did... I'll just stick to 2 characters at the same time no matter what happens (or my pc will probably take it's sweet revenge on me by crashing b:shocked)... Look it's not that I don't understand the frustrations but the fact that multiclienting is allowed now is a big step in the right direction... Even if for some it's not perfect yet it's not like much can be done about it... But it would help if ppl stop complaining about the entire rule and just come up with stuff that can be adjusted to the rule and yet keep it fair for everyone... But no matter what I realy don't want the rule back to where it's illigal to multiclient...

ArqueiroVerd - Dreamweaver · May 2011

vote in poll
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1081291
b:angry

Drazomyst - Dreamweaver · May 2011

Once upon time, very few people had a computer, let alone many let alone one with internet access. Today, in some countries, this is still true. People should be grateful they have a computer that can run and log into PWI, let alone more than one.

I'm grateful I have a computer and a laptop with good internet access that can run PWI. I'm also grateful I can run my two accounts at once across the two, instead of one. b:victory

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Drazomyst - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Once upon time, very few people had a computer, let alone many let alone one with internet access. Today, in some countries, this is still true. People should be grateful they have a computer that can run and log into PWI, let alone more than one.

I'm grateful I have a computer and a laptop with good internet access that can run PWI. I'm also grateful I can run my two accounts at once across the two, instead of one. b:victory

It's still true here... A new computer that can handle even only one single client of this game is at least 300 euro's... And the monthly internet bills also aren't verry cheap... I don't know how it is in the US but I'm gratefull to have my own pc with internet on it and not having to share it with others... Lot's of my friends only have one and have to share it with the entire family... And now I can even play with 2 characters at the same time on it so... b:thanks

Yamiino - Heavens Tear · May 2011

what if I had a gaming shop with PWI being played from my ISP with 30 different users at once?

If the user doesn't come back to play from my end it will be registered on your record, and I'd not have any way to prove this user came to my gaming shop to play PWI

Would that mean you'd ban over 60 accounts because of having the same IP?

Could happen

! I know a lot of gaming shops that have computers with online games and it's always full of people playing other MMOs, this could apply to PWI (not because the users don't have / own a computer, just because playing at the shop is more fun because you can run a guild with those players and have a lot of more fun, not to mention TW organization.)

cewoo1 · May 2011

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why don't you start explaining why ppl should buy more pc's to be allowed to log in more characters...

Where have I ever said that ppl shoud buy more pc's to be allowed to log in more characters? It's not my game. I'm not making the rules here. If I were there certainly would not be this rediculous maximum of 2 clients only per person.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And even though it might be a bit hard to believe but some ppl are actualy stuck with one pc...

Did you miss the part where I explained that when I first started playing this game it was on 1 pc only?

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I for one am not a spoiled brat that goes wining to ppl that I need more pc's just to multi at one game...

Are you implying that is what I have done? If so then you are creating fiction and thinking in lies and self deception.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1 pc is enough for all my needs... And now I'm happy that I can multi on 1... And even if that means some ppl who have more pc's have to play a less more overpowered or in advantage of themselves I still think this change is for the good... Now EVERYONE can multi... If they have 1 pc or more... What part of this change isn't good?

You are imposing your belief system onto others. This never ends well. Accept that your needs in your circunstance in your life are different to another persons, and allow them and yourself to be different. If you try to make everyone around you a clone of yourself you will only live in conflict.

Now, to get back onto topic. If I am not mistaken, then the problem attempting to be addressed is that there are those who use multiple unauthorised automated clients to level their characters and collect drops, without the person having to be at the keyboard. It seems to me that PWE believes those people use the same name to create their multiple accounts. This may be true. But if it is, then by announcing that multiple accounts being logged in with the same persons name will be banned, they have told those hackers how to become undetectable.

Instead of imposing restrictions that penalise those who play by the rules, how about PWE using something like reversible public/private key encryption to identfy and sort out authorised game clients from the hacks. The keys could be updated with the weekly game updates. The encryption does not have to be applied to all communication between the client and the server. It could be something like the ping command. A logged in client that fails to respond appropriately to the periodic encrypted query is likely a ****, and can be used as reasonable grounds for banning the account.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »

what if I had a gaming shop with PWI being played from my ISP with 30 different users at once?

If the user doesn't come back to play from my end it will be registered on your record, and I'd not have any way to prove this user came to my gaming shop to play PWI

Would that mean you'd ban over 60 accounts because of having the same IP?

Could happen ! I know a lot of gaming shops that have computers with online games and it's always full of people playing other MMOs, this could apply to PWI (not because the users don't have / own a computer, just because playing at the shop is more fun because you can run a guild with those players and have a lot of more fun, not to mention TW organization.)

You could make a picture of your shop when ppl are playing and blur out their faces... That's prob what most ppl have to end up doing eventualy annyway I guess... I haven't had any problems so far multiclienting with 2 ppl in this house so I don't think they'll be that restrictive about it... But for 30 pc's it's a diffirent story I guess... Would be nice if they'd made an option to link accounts from each person to see if they're diffirent ppl... But knowing PWI ppl by now I'm pretty sure that even if they did that a lot of ppl would be taking advantage of that... The only reason I can see for the restriction annyway was because ppl have a lot of afk characters online causing server overload and that ppl where using 4 characters to open a TT or 6 to open a Nirvana wich isn't how it's suposed to be... Though situation it seems... And I wish you lot's of good luck with the gaming shop... Looks like you will need it... b:surrender

krittycat · May 2011

cewoo1 wrote: »

Where have I ever said that ppl shoud buy more pc's to be allowed to log in more characters? It's not my game. I'm not making the rules here. If I were there certainly would not be this rediculous maximum of 2 clients only per person.

Instead of imposing restrictions that penalise those who play by the rules, how about PWE using something like reversible public/private key encryption to identfy and sort out authorised game clients from the hacks. The keys could be updated with the weekly game updates. The encryption does not have to be applied to all communication between the client and the server. It could be something like the ping command. A logged in client that fails to respond appropriately to the periodic encrypted query is likely a ****, and can be used as reasonable grounds for banning the account.

That right there is the kicker. This isn't your game, and you don't make the rules. Your only obligation is to follow the rules as set forth by the owners (and thus, rulemakers) of the game.

The rules changed. Therefore, we as players must adapt to those changes.

Anyone remember when we got that untranslated bot-check question accidentally? I wouldn't mind a translated version being implemented in our version.

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear · May 2011

KrittyCat wrote: »

That right there is the kicker. This isn't your game, and you don't make the rules. Your only obligation is to follow the rules as set forth by the owners (and thus, rulemakers) of the game.

The rules changed. Therefore, we as players must adapt to those changes.

Anyone remember when we got that untranslated bot-check question accidentally? I wouldn't mind a translated version being implemented in our version.

How exactly does the bot-check question thing works and at wich moments will it be used if implanted? I do leave the game on when being afk sometimes (at wich I should be standing completely still)... Will it have any bad effects on that? Or will it just be used when you're moving and killing stuff? Doesn't sound like a verry bad idea though... b:puzzled

FiDollaYou - Sanctuary · May 2011

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why don't you start explaining why ppl should buy more pc's to be allowed to log in more characters... And even though it might be a bit hard to believe but some ppl are actualy stuck with one pc... I for one am not a spoiled brat that goes wining to ppl that I need more pc's just to multi at one game... 1 pc is enough for all my needs... And now I'm happy that I can multi on 1... And even if that means some ppl who have more pc's have to play a less more overpowered or in advantage of themselves I still think this change is for the good... Now EVERYONE can multi... If they have 1 pc or more... What part of this change isn't good?

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you don't realize that the change gave to some people and took away from others.

The alternative is to presume that you are, indeed a spoiled brat, with an "I got what I want, so **** everyone else" attitude.

I applaud the change that allows us to multi-client - it's the *new* limitation on simultaneous logins that has some people mad, and the "ban first, ask later" statement that has others concerned. Remember, these are people who have up to this point playing by the rules and in a fashion which was not only permitted by the game rules but also (in some cases) encouraged by PWI staff.

Let's say that you use this opportunity to spark up a second account, spend time and money to build up the second account so that you have a well-performing duo. And then PW releases a patch that prevents multi-clienting again. I'm guessing you'd be the first person to jump on the QQ Bus.

Me personally, though, I'm expecting a "Third Account" stone in a cash shop near you pretty soon....

Multi-Clienting Rule Changes

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