Lunar Claws or TT100fists
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Devoted - Lost City wrote: »The less crit you have the more effective additional crit is...
Getting +4% crit at base 1% crit is more effective than getting +4% crit at base 21% crit.
1000 * 1.01 = 1010
1000 * 1.05 = 1050
1000 * 1.21 = 1210
1000 * 1.25 = 1250
1050/1010 = 1.03960396
1250/1210 = 1.03305785
and having 100% crit makes me crit 100% of the time, true storyMichael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »Umm... Soul Infect is relatively worthless in PK. The 4% crit + slightly higher average dps from TT100 is better for PvP.
it's worthless to make your target have less hp? what game have i been playing?
oh.. right.. the pwi people hit 5.0 with cyclone or something, right? right. everything dies anyway. your point is valid because they broke the class b:bye0 -
it's worthless to make your target have less hp? what game have i been playing?
oh.. right.. the pwi people hit 5.0 with cyclone or something, right? right. everything dies anyway. your point is valid because they broke the class b:bye
Have you even used Deicides? They almost never proc in PK.
Even if they do, the person has most likely already taken more than 10% damage.
The only exception is high hp barbs.
Plus 1st hit often does more damage than a 10% debuff would do, even if you could get it to proc on the first hit each time.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
They tick back with less HP.0
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Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »Have you even used Deicides? They almost never proc in PK.
Even if they do, the person has most likely already taken more than 10% damage.
The only exception is high hp barbs.
Plus 1st hit often does more damage than a 10% debuff would do, even if you could get it to proc on the first hit each time.
i already closed my opinion with how broken the class is now, it's k
and, 40% chance to tick.. pretty often if your opponent isn't a 3-4 shot with fist. ever fought someone your own class, with good gear? I know when I was 3.33, my opponent didn't always die to just normal punches. this is, of course, irrelevant when you hit 4-5/s with this class, as nothing can survive it.
turned a good class into a /facekeyboard class with permanent stunlock, pro pwi b:shutup0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »Have you even used Deicides? They almost never proc in PK.
Even if they do, the person has most likely already taken more than 10% damage.
The only exception is high hp barbs.
Plus 1st hit often does more damage than a 10% debuff would do, even if you could get it to proc on the first hit each time.
1 second while i dig up the math i did on this earlier in the thread
endgame targets not the people you fight with +5 armor
@ proof funny that you mention demon GS as it becomes less and less effective the more crit you haveGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »if we're talking endgame
now if your up against other endgame toons all you have to fight is high hp targets
5% proc rate = 1 in 20 hits procs so lets say it takes 10 hits to tick the charms of a arcane at that lvl (would be closer to 15-20 but meh) thats a 50% chance that you will debuff their hp on the charm tick so for the duration of this proc your oponent is effectivly amped by 10% in a way that stacks with both EP and HF
charms exist the point of the hp debuff is that is lowers the effect of the charm by 10% effectivly amping them
so if it procs anywhere before 50% hp its great
left off the rest of the post as i had forgotten about tt 100's + phys add so was wrong on the DD it gives
read...other...peoples...posts
(if you want proof from a level 100 look at calvin in the pvp vid on adroit put up theres plenty of times he would have killed her with only 10% more damage)Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Mature content: Conversation for cash shoppers only.
Any place for us non-cash shoppers to discuss our non elite builds?0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »Mature content: Conversation for cash shoppers only.
Any place for us non-cash shoppers to discuss our non elite builds?
Make a new thread called "Budget End-game builds" and get flamed to death when your build doesn't include TT99 or Lunar/Nirvana/TT100 weapon...
Plus Josh is a non-CSer farmer.100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »They tick back with less HP.
As I said, if it even procs in PK, which it rarely does.i already closed my opinion with how broken the class is now, it's k
and, 40% chance to tick.. pretty often if your opponent isn't a 3-4 shot with fist. ever fought someone your own class, with good gear? I know when I was 3.33, my opponent didn't always die to just normal punches. this is, of course, irrelevant when you hit 4-5/s with this class, as nothing can survive it.
turned a good class into a /facekeyboard class with permanent stunlock, pro pwi b:shutup
It's not a 40% chance to proc, it's more like 5-10%.
When it does proc, they have to have over 8k hp to make the proc even worth 1 normal attack.Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »endgame targets not the people you fight with +5 armor
@ proof funny that you mention demon GS as it becomes less and less effective the more crit you have
Umm... what? Ok mr 28 PK kills.
Where did I mention demon GS? I have it, I do not bother cancel casting it or even using it, so I don't know what you're trying to pull out of your ***, but quite frankly it's starting to stink of nub.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Aelo - Harshlands wrote: »Mature content: Conversation for cash shoppers only.
Any place for us non-cash shoppers to discuss our non elite builds?
I'm non-cs when I started Harshlands. My BM is at 4 APS and I have over 350 mil atm in cash + merchant items.
It almost always proc in fights against BM and Barb for me and those fights last quite a few tick because my claws aren't very refined yet. HA targets usually always have that debuff on, that's just for me.Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »As I said, if it even procs in PK, which it rarely does.
It's not a 40% chance to proc, it's more like 5-10%.
When it does proc, they have to have over 8k hp to make the proc even worth 1 normal attack.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »It almost always proc in fights against BM and Barb for me and those fights last quite a few tick because my claws aren't very refined yet. HA targets usually always have that debuff on, that's just for me.
Like I said, I rarely see it and by the time it actually procs it hardly even matters... it's not a factor.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »It's not a 40% chance to proc, it's more like 5-10%.
you should really be sure of things before you say them
all weapon abilities(patk, mp, hp, def reduce, zerk, hp debuff, etc), excluding debuff(99 spear)/seal(100 spear), is 40%
go search for the thread for the proof, i cba to go through 100s of forum pages. it had a link to a developer stating it, too.0 -
you should really be sure of things before you say them
all weapon abilities(patk, mp, hp, def reduce, zerk, hp debuff, etc), excluding debuff(99 spear)/seal(100 spear), is 40%
go search for the thread for the proof, i cba to go through 100s of forum pages. it had a link to a developer stating it, too.
There is no way in hell Soul Shatter or Soul Infect have a 40% proc rate.
On the rare occasion of even tanking a boss, sometimes the debuff wears off before it procs again.
If you've actually played this game for as long as your join date, you'd know. Get a set of Annihilators and sit there and attack an NPC. It doesn't proc all that often, nether does any fist or dagger that I've seen. Axes seem to have a higher proc rate than fists.
Are you from WoW? 40% is their standard proc rate for weapons, isn't it? This is PWI.
b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »There is no way in hell Soul Shatter or Soul Infect have a 40% proc rate.
On the rare occasion of even tanking a boss, sometimes the debuff wears off before it procs again.
If you've actually played this game for as long as your join date, you'd know. Get a set of Annihilators and sit there and attack an NPC. It doesn't proc all that often, nether does any fist or dagger that I've seen. Axes seem to have a higher proc rate than fists.
Are you from WoW? 40% is their standard proc rate for weapons, isn't it? This is PWI.
b:bye
gotta agree with dark on the proc rate its about 5% on my deicide's
it will be more usefull than +4% crit on an oponent that has armor refines close to or greater than your weapons refine or any target thats in HA
basicly the more well geared your oponent the better debuff claws are vs TT 100
so ofc on +5 refines its useless... and nobody ever refines past +5 eh?
(im hinting that you kill people with **** gear here or at least people with low armor and orn refines)Gifs are hard to make work here0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »so ofc on +5 refines its useless... and nobody ever refines past +5 eh?
(im hinting that you kill people with **** gear here or at least people with low armor and orn refines)
Erm, no. The proc is worthless unless you're fighting barbs. It doesn't proc consistently or enough to be counted on. If you're fighting against heavies with 15k, the proc would reduce 1500 off max hp. That's two, maybe three non-crit normal attacks. If it doesn't proc when the person is at or close to 100% health, it doesn't do a whole lot. It would have to have a 30-40% proc rate to be worth a damn in PK.
Almost all the people I PK against are at my level and similar gear... many of them with much better gear and refines.
(I'm hinting if you've ever PK'd with Deicides you'd know the proc was worthless and can't be relied upon)I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »Erm, no. The proc is worthless unless you're fighting barbs. It doesn't proc consistently or enough to be counted on. If you're fighting against heavies with 15k, the proc would reduce 1500 off max hp. That's two, maybe three non-crit normal attacks. If it doesn't proc when the person is at or close to 100% health, it doesn't do a whole lot. It would have to have a 30-40% proc rate to be worth a damn in PK.
Almost all the people I PK against are at my level and similar gear... many of them with much better gear and refines.
(I'm hinting if you've ever PK'd with Deicides you'd know the proc was worthless and can't be relied upon)
thats a 10% easier kill whereas the crit on tt 11 is a under 4% boost to kill speed (around a 1.9% boost if your cancleing GS)
and all of these PKers have +5 armor and a +11 weapon eh? prioritize refines on weapon
or did the "oponent with armor refines close to or greater than you weapon" get skipped over yet again?
6 seconds of auto x 4 aps cycloned = 24(with lag more like 20) hits 5% proc chance could be shown as 1/20 so thats almost a 100% proc rather per roar
lets go with that 400 per hit (because even arcanes have more phys def than me at this refine T.T and thats what a set of +10 100 does to me through demon bell spam) thats 9.6k on a +12 weapon so another 1k+ could just be the differance in killing and getting kited to death
with lag and such your looking at 6k-high 8k damage so that 1k hp is that much betterGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »There is no way in hell Soul Shatter or Soul Infect have a 40% proc rate.
On the rare occasion of even tanking a boss, sometimes the debuff wears off before it procs again.
If you've actually played this game for as long as your join date, you'd know. Get a set of Annihilators and sit there and attack an NPC. It doesn't proc all that often, nether does any fist or dagger that I've seen. Axes seem to have a higher proc rate than fists.
Are you from WoW? 40% is their standard proc rate for weapons, isn't it? This is PWI.
b:bye
soul shatter = debuff. correct me if I'm wrong, but I said that's 5%.
soul infect, is, 40%. how fast do you hit? 2/s? even at 3.33 I sometimes chained the effect 6-7 hits in a row. debuff I see once in a life time(unless I stand there, hitting with it, intentionally).0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »thats a 10% easier kill whereas the crit on tt 11 is a under 4% boost to kill speed (around a 1.9% boost if your cancleing GS)
10% less HP doesn't mean it's a 10% easier kill. That just means they have 10% less hp. HP is far less important than skill.and all of these PKers have +5 armor and a +11 weapon eh? prioritize refines on weapon
or did the "oponent with armor refines close to or greater than you weapon" get skipped over yet again?
Are you autistic too?
Um... many of the people I've killed have much better gear, some with full +8-+10 sets... it's not like you on a PvE server eying each other's gears, saying when you're ready and dueling from safe zone, saying GF and then patting each other's back before staring at each other's gears more. People just don't sit there and let you tank your triple sparks either... really dude.
You have decent 'book smarts'. Turn on PK mode and go fight a little. You'll see how often it actually procs and when it's actually useful. Sometimes the sword is mightier than the pen, or in your case, calculator. lol6 seconds of auto x 4 aps cycloned = 24(with lag more like 20) hits 5% proc chance could be shown as 1/20 so thats almost a 100% proc rather per roar
lets go with that 400 per hit (because even arcanes have more phys def than me at this refine T.T and thats what a set of +10 100 does to me through demon bell spam) thats 9.6k on a +12 weapon so another 1k+ could just be the differance in killing and getting kited to death
with lag and such your looking at 6k-high 8k damage so that 1k hp is that much better
Nice, math, please tell me who is going to win the next Daytona 500 or Indy 500. Since numbers explain everything, you should have no problem figuring out the winner, right?
lol
Like I said, it rarely procs in PK. Usually against BMs, almost always against barbs. Any other class I hardly ever see it or it doesn't matter.
It's a lot like using Deicides in TT. Mobs usually die before Soul Infect procs, with the exception to the really high hp Guarnobs and Polearms. Sometimes it doesn't even proc on the high hp mobs in the room preceding Djinscream.
Stop being a freaking nub. Why the hell would I be making this up? You're the one continuing to argue about useless BS.
b:byesoul shatter = debuff. correct me if I'm wrong, but I said that's 5%.
Soul Shatter = Lunar Bow Debuff. Soul Infect = Lunar Claw Debuff.
What is your point?soul infect, is, 40%. how fast do you hit? 2/s? even at 3.33 I sometimes chained the effect 6-7 hits in a row. debuff I see once in a life time(unless I stand there, hitting with it, intentionally).
You're wrong. Start a thread in the Archer or General Discussion asking what the proc rate is. You'll be told you're wrong by everyone who actually uses them.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
soul shatter = debuff. correct me if I'm wrong, but I said that's 5%.
soul infect, is, 40%. how fast do you hit? 2/s? even at 3.33 I sometimes chained the effect 6-7 hits in a row. debuff I see once in a life time(unless I stand there, hitting with it, intentionally).
I've had CV claws for nearly 6 months before I switched to HH100. Trust me, soul infect no where near 40%. When I'm soloing HH bosses, it rarely procs when the boss is above 90% HP. I'm 5APS, and in almost every case, the boss is down to like 85-95% HP before it procs and the full 10% debuff isn't being utilized completely or at all.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to refute that it isn't useful. I'm simply stating it's only IF it procs when your enemy is above 90% max HP. The effect is 10% HP of Max HP, not relative to the amount of remaining HP your enemy has.
This effect is overly exaggerated in PvP too; the HP debuff isn't permanent like many suggest, it needs to re-proc if you want the effect to stay. Mages especially will kite you until the effect wears off. PvP is completely different; your enemies are not stationary by any means... They'll drop from air, kite, stun, whatever. When their charm ticks after the effect wears off, it's almost as if your HP soul infect proc never happened.BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761
YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI0 -
TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »This effect is overly exaggerated in PvP too; the HP debuff isn't permanent like many suggest, it needs to re-proc if you want the effect to stay. Mages especially will kite you until the effect wears off. PvP is completely different; your enemies are not stationary by any means... They'll drop from air, kite, stun, whatever. When their charm ticks after the effect wears off, it's almost as if your HP soul infect proc never happened.
^^ this.
Especially if you're fighting a LA or Arcane user. The 10% debuff is equivalent to 1 hit, or less in many circustances. An arcane or LA would need over 8khp for the Soul Infect to even equal 1 hit... and at 3.33aps unsparked, the effect of Soul Shatter is really insignificant. You might as well expect to crit whenever you want too. Crits aren't reliable. You can't count on them. You can count on a lunar weapon proc even less.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
-% hp works for you in the following ways:
less damage needed to tick charm
less hp charm tick heals
overall i'd say it saves you at least a couple of hits on any given target unless target is very poorly geared, which I guess is more important to an archer than to a claw BM.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »Soul Shatter = Lunar Bow Debuff. Soul Infect = Lunar Claw Debuff.
What is your point?
that you said there's 'no way'. i even told you there's a thread with evidence behind my claim. i tried looking for it, but i can't remember what the thread was about(we totally derailed it). pretty sure Sylvae(Telarith) posted it, thoughMichael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »You're wrong. Start a thread in the Archer or General Discussion asking what the proc rate is. You'll be told you're wrong by everyone who actually uses them.
I agreed fully with you that debuff(as in, removing positive buffs) is 5%. I know that. but unlike debuffing(and I use a spear for this, so the attack rate gives me more hits a second. still takes forever), the hp debuff effect has chained 6-7 times. I'm really a very unlucky person, I don't see a 5% effect ticking 6 times in a row.
once, in my entire pw career(and I've had my 99 spear for a very long time), I've seen a debuff happen twice. totally at random, wasn't even trying to debuff. just poking my friend who was afk. hp debuff often happens on the first hit.
so, by what you're saying: I'm either extremely lucky, or you're all just unlucky.
@dan:
I've had incidents where I would hit a boss below 90% before the effect ticks. but, even against level 150 bosses, it doesn't take much to do that. this is why I said it's more valuable in pvp(besides, where i come from most people use archers as farm alts as they're bad in pk and .. use to hit the fastest with fist), because if your opponent isn't like michael_dark claims all players to be(+5 armour, high refine weapon, lol), it should benefit you if you can't kill them in a couple of hits.
unfortunately, this is all irrelevant. with 4-5/s with cyclone, pretty much nothing tanks. so crit/patk is more useful.0 -
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evidence?
/facedesk
whetever developer stated 40% or not. fact is it doesnt prof much. it doesnt proc more than my soul shatter on bow, say whatever you want to... b:bye
only reason it seem to be more than 5% is cos of 4/5 aps and bow usually not even 1.I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender
102 - Archer - Heartz0 -
evidence?
/facedesk
At least two other people stated the proc isn't anywhere near 40%.Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »gotta agree with dark on the proc rate its about 5% on my deicide'sTheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »I've had CV claws for nearly 6 months before I switched to HH100. Trust me, soul infect no where near 40%.
I've been using Deicides for almost a year.
Where's your 'link'?
Idiot.
P.S. You didn't answer if you even have them. b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
agree with the posts above about the proc rate of decides. I would say even 5% might be a bit high on them. 5% would be 1/20 hits or once per four secs at 5aps. This would mean that it would it "should" almost always be up on a boss and it is not.
there is no way it is 40% to proc. I too have been using them for about a year, so have had tons of time using them.0 -
Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »At least two other people stated the proc isn't anywhere near 40%.
I've been using Deicides for almost a year.
Where's your 'link'?
Idiot.
P.S. You didn't answer if you even have them. b:bye
didn't know you asked. figured by my examples of me using them, or the whole 'chain 6 times in a row' thing, would lead you to believe I did. I guess you thought I was using something else? b:shutup
I've been using these claws in the malaysian version of pw long before anyone here even considered them to be a useful weapon.
idea -> they changed everything else, maybe they made the chance lower here after they become popular?
the link lead to the myen forums, and I've looked there for it. it was in their class discussion forum as well, but it's no longer a sticky like it use to be. so I don't know if it's relevant in this version anymore, as they've changed everything else over the past year. 0 -
didn't know you asked. figured by my examples of me using them, or the whole 'chain 6 times in a row' thing, would lead you to believe I did. I guess you thought I was using something else? b:shutup
I've been using these claws in the malaysian version of pw long before anyone here even considered them to be a useful weapon.
idea -> they changed everything else, maybe they made the chance lower here after they become popular? the link lead to the myen forums, and I've looked there for it. it was in their class discussion forum as well, but it's no longer a sticky like it use to be. so I don't know if it's relevant in this version anymore, as they've changed everything else over the past year.
Rumor: Heaven Shatterer proc was nerfed shortly after packs were released. All the people who farmed Heaven Shatterer said it used to proc more. I know two archers who have said this. No, I have no actual proof, just their familiarity with their gear pre/post packs.
I've run at least 500 3-3's with my claws. I would bet my life that the proc is 10% or less. There is no way in hell it's higher. I wish it were a guaranteed proc at the first hit, but it's not rare for low HP bosses to reach 90% health before Sharptooth even takes effect. It's not likely to happen, but it does.
As for killing mobs with 100-200k hp, the proc often doesn't happen. Then again, my claws have 2 garnet gems and have been +10 for ages... they're +11 now, so I don't have to hit as often as many other people.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
I'll see if I can get a source code from pwi, this is just what I know from previous versionsb:surrender0
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