Lunar Claws or TT100fists

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Comments

  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »
    how about you think about what you post before you post it so people wount have to go back and reread your whole post AGAIN.

    How about learn to comprehend the first time around.

    It took you what, 4 tries and you still didn't realize what the hell I had said to you in plain simple english.

    And, all because I was trying to tell you how to eventually save 30 million or more coins.

    Jesus f***ing Christ lady, go back to the kitchen.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • ISAIDLEAVEIT - Harshlands
    ISAIDLEAVEIT - Harshlands Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2010
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  • Fist_Mama - Harshlands
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »
    Deicides + 100 raptures will NEVER be cheaper than 99 gold + 100 raptures. EVER.

    unbelievable.

    EDIT: Wait, I understand why you don't get it...

    1) Get Deicide.

    2) When you're ready to covert to Nirvana, make 99 fists.

    3) Make Nirvana claws with 99 fists.

    4) Sell Deicides for 50-60m.

    5) You now have saved over 30 million coin and have 50-60m coin in your pocket.

    6) Use 50-60m to refine your Nirvana.

    now i will reply to this because its basicly a whole new post.


    Is that understandable now?

    hmmm seems like a good idea but more thank likely i wount go through the trouble of farming it so again ill stick with decides.
  • Fist_Mama - Harshlands
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You do realize that's exactly what Michael said in that quote, right? b:surrender

    if he said that at first we wouldnt have been argueing in the first place but no thats not what he is saying he is saying that it is cheaper to get TT99 fist and nirvana it when i say its cheaper to get decides (and not nirvana them).
  • ISAIDLEAVEIT - Harshlands
    ISAIDLEAVEIT - Harshlands Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    isaidleaveit - Harshlands wrote: »
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  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »
    if he said that at first we wouldnt have been argueing in the first place but no thats not what he is saying he is saying that it is cheaper to get TT99 fist and nirvana it when i say its cheaper to get decides (and not nirvana them).

    I did.

    b:irritated
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • SerenityMare - Dreamweaver
    SerenityMare - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,211 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »
    if he said that at first we wouldnt have been argueing in the first place but no thats not what he is saying he is saying that it is cheaper to get TT99 fist and nirvana it when i say its cheaper to get decides (and not nirvana them).

    Yeah, that's right. QQ

    I had a brain freeze, my apologies. >.>'
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    So, if I were going to get nirvana, but didn't have enough cash to upgrade to g15 in one go, would it make more sense getting a deicide, or g13 nirvana? (Sorry if it was posted earlier, but I need to sleep soon and can't go through 10 pages).
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands wrote: »
    if he said that at first we wouldnt have been argueing in the first place but no thats not what he is saying he is saying that it is cheaper to get TT99 fist and nirvana it when i say its cheaper to get decides (and not nirvana them).

    You're not even comparing the same two items. You stated you were going to eventually upgrade cv claws to g13 nirvana. Michael was simply stating that it's cheaper to make g13 nirvana through hh99 fists, not cheaper than un-upgraded cv claws.
    BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761

    YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
  • TheDan - Sanctuary
    TheDan - Sanctuary Posts: 3,495 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City wrote: »
    So, if I were going to get nirvana, but didn't have enough cash to upgrade to g15 in one go, would it make more sense getting a deicide, or g13 nirvana? (Sorry if it was posted earlier, but I need to sleep soon and can't go through 10 pages).

    G13 nirvana is only cheaper if you're making them with hh99 fists. If you're making them with cv claws anyways, they will cost 30m more.
    BM PvP Guide: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1320761

    YouTube channels: youtube.com/TheDan912 and youtube.com/TheDanPWI
  • Fist_Mama - Harshlands
    Fist_Mama - Harshlands Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You're not even comparing the same two items. You stated you were going to eventually upgrade cv claws to g13 nirvana. Michael was simply stating that it's cheaper to make g13 nirvana through hh99 fists, not cheaper than un-upgraded cv claws.

    ive been comparing the same 2 items thruought this whole thread.
  • SashaGray - Heavens Tear
    SashaGray - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,765 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City wrote: »
    So, if I were going to get nirvana, but didn't have enough cash to upgrade to g15 in one go, would it make more sense getting a deicide, or g13 nirvana? (Sorry if it was posted earlier, but I need to sleep soon and can't go through 10 pages).

    you probably aren't going to want to g15 claws/fists since you arent guaranteed any -int at all, while its possible to get 2x -.05 adds on them you're looking at billions in raps to get there. although if you can hit 5.0 or even 4.0 with your other gear it might be worth it. your looking at several re-rolls to come up with something thats preferable to g13 nirvana.

    g15 does have a 140 higher base attack, combined with +20 attack lvl or revenge you might even do more damage with a lower attack rate.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    or use the 4 aps base setup

    because that would make sense rather than rerolling again and again for double -.05
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Alright, so unless you get lucky and get 2x -.05 int, or if you have a 4 aps base, then in order of best-worst it goes like this-

    G13 Nirvana > G15 Nirvana (I'm assuming you'll do more damage with nirvana -.05 than a -.1 TT/Lunar weapon) > TT100 > Deicide > TT99

    So, if I plan on getting g13 nirvana, I should make it with TT99 and not a deicide, but I should use a deicide until I can afford to get a g13 nirvana, since I can always sell it when I'm done. And TT100 only makes sense if it's your end game goal.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • Steopie - Heavens Tear
    Steopie - Heavens Tear Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I looked into this, and here's the mathematics I used to come to the conclusion that TT100 is better.

    At and upto +10, TT100 is better in terms of damage:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=be5fcd6625d00e94 TT100 +10

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=668f80d4a70a495d G13 Nirvana +10


    However, in terms of 'DPS' factoring in the 4% crit from the TT100 and Neglecting the hp debuff from nirvana claws. At +12, tt100 wins.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=dc2e0f83894c2e4a TT100 + 12

    Low damage = 4254, Top damage = 4881 4% crit

    (4254+4881)/2 * 1.04 = 4698.2

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=668f80d4a70a495d G13 Nirvana +12

    Low damage = 4386, Top damage = 4995

    (4386+4995)/2 = 4690.5.

    4698.2 (TT100) > 4690.5 (G13 Nirvana)

    (Any comments about the 'model' I used are welcome, I appreciate its fairly crude b:surrender)

    TT100 costs 150mill worth of TOBL's and about 5mill for a relic and subs.

    G13 nirvana costs 100 raps (200mill @ 2m/rap) + the cost of tt99 gold wep + potential cost of 2 socketing the tt99 gold wep + the transfer stones, say roughly 225mill?

    TT100 is about 70mill cheaper, guarantee'd 2 soc, better damage upto and at +10, and better DPS at +12.

    TT100 > Nirvana G13. (my mathematical conclusion, corrections welcome! b:shocked)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I looked into this, and here's the mathematics I used to come to the conclusion that TT100 is better.
    TT100 > Nirvana G13. (my mathematical conclusion, corrections welcome! b:shocked)

    From earlier in the thread:
    Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »
    G13 is slightly better than TT100 at +10 when you consider the proc and better at +12, but it costs more.

    Deicide
    +10 966-1141 avg 1053.5
    +12 1285-1460 avg 1372.5

    TT100
    +10 1044-1253 avg 1148.5
    +12 1318-1527 avg 1422.5

    G13
    +10 1043-1246 avg 1144.5
    +12 1362-1565 avg 1463.5

    G15 claws
    +10 1182-1434 avg 1308
    +12 1501-1753 avg 1627

    G15 fists
    +10 1266-1350 avg 1308
    +12 1585-1669 avg 1627

    This is why I say endgame is either TT100 or G15 Nirvana, DPS at 5.0 is going to be significantly higher with G15. Lunar is still marginally better for solo/small squad TT runs than TT100 but equally refined TT100 will still hold aggro over them.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • Steopie - Heavens Tear
    Steopie - Heavens Tear Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    I accounted for the 4% crit on the TT100, hence im smarter than you. b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I accounted for the 4% crit on the TT100, hence im smarter than you. b:victory

    not counting the proc on nirvana and counting the 4% crit off tt 100

    yes tt 100 deals 1% more damage

    keep in mind that every %of crit reduces the boost from demon GS though so it only matters 2/3's on the time your sparked so its closer to a .8x% differance in damage

    tt 100 is only better by that fraction of a % when your in squad play or COA, the rest of the time (pvp, solo/duo tt. grinding, hell even tw on bolt or to make killing a catta easier while its stuned) nirvana g 13 would be better
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Steopie - Heavens Tear
    Steopie - Heavens Tear Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    its hard to account for that proc.. a lot of the time its a nonfactor as some /things/ cannot be hp debuffed, or an archer / sage veno / w/e does a better hp debuff.

    also youre level 94, dont talk to me anymore lowbie. b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    its hard to account for that proc.. a lot of the time its a nonfactor as some /things/ cannot be hp debuffed, or an archer / sage veno / w/e does a better hp debuff.

    also youre level 94, dont talk to me anymore lowbie. b:bye

    i just did account for the proc and earlier gave a way to factor it in on a pvp target

    did you read my post? it states a damn list of situations where the proc matters over the crit

    or are you just another arrogant lvl 100+ who is comeing here to learn the class form some crapy 94 peoples?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Steopie - Heavens Tear
    Steopie - Heavens Tear Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i just did account for the proc and earlier gave a way to factor it in on a pvp target

    did you read my post? it states a damn list of situations where the proc matters over the crit

    or are you just another arrogant lvl 100+ who is comeing here to learn the class form some crapy 94 peoples?

    ya i did. I did talk about it in my initial post. Thats down for the BM to decide and my personal justification.

    I also pointed out that G13 nirvana are similar at +10 ~ +12, therefore I am quite offended that a level 94 bm, who cannot even afford 5mill worth of hyper or w/e to get to level 100, therefore you are clearly too poor to even refine anything beyond +5 AND is below level to even equip decides AND only has 28 pvp kills, tries to tell me about the inner-mysteries of playing BM in pve and pvp.

    so in answer to your final question: No. YHBT. b:dirtyb:cryb:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ya i did. I did talk about it in my initial post. Thats down for the BM to decide and my personal justification.

    I also pointed out that G13 nirvana are similar at +10 ~ +12, therefore I am quite offended that a level 94 bm, who cannot even afford 5mill worth of hyper or w/e to get to level 100, therefore you are clearly too poor to even refine anything beyond +5 AND is below level to even equip decides AND only has 28 pvp kills, tries to tell me about the inner-mysteries of playing BM in pve and pvp.

    so in answer to your final question: No. YHBT. b:dirtyb:cryb:bye

    so you have no real problems with my logic or answers and are just being butthurt that a lvl 94 would dare speak up

    your new here aint ya sweetheart?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ya i did. I did talk about it in my initial post. Thats down for the BM to decide and my personal justification.

    I also pointed out that G13 nirvana are similar at +10 ~ +12, therefore I am quite offended that a level 94 bm, who cannot even afford 5mill worth of hyper or w/e to get to level 100, therefore you are clearly too poor to even refine anything beyond +5 AND is below level to even equip decides AND only has 28 pvp kills, tries to tell me about the inner-mysteries of playing BM in pve and pvp.

    so in answer to your final question: No. YHBT. b:dirtyb:cryb:bye

    Please stop talking. Every post you make you end up embarrassing yourself farther.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • Steopie - Heavens Tear
    Steopie - Heavens Tear Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Im the one whos provided mathematical facts and added to this debate. I have no problem with your logic or answers. Im just lol'ing at how butthurt you get.

    FAO noob barb: I dont pay attention to hyper prices / how much hypering you gotta do to level to 100. I was 101 way before all that shizzle. Take note of the 'or w/e' at the end. Regardless of it being 500k - 20mill, its a minimal amount when talking about +10ing stuff. Youre clutching at straws to try to avoid facing the fact that my reasoning is totally acceptable.

    All ive done is given my thoughts and my personal justification and added a bit of trolling to keep you nerdies interested and provoke some butthurtness. In no way did i try to censor you or tell you not to speak up, although i gave reasons why your opinion can be regarded as lesser than mine.

    bite some more! b:pleasedb:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Im the one whos provided mathematical facts and added to this debate. I have no problem with your logic or answers. Im just lol'ing at how butthurt you get.

    FAO noob barb: I dont pay attention to hyper prices / how much hypering you gotta do to level to 100. I was 101 way before all that shizzle. Take note of the 'or w/e' at the end. Regardless of it being 500k - 20mill, its a minimal amount when talking about +10ing stuff. Youre clutching at straws to try to avoid facing the fact that my reasoning is totally acceptable.

    All ive done is given my thoughts and my personal justification and added a bit of trolling to keep you nerdies interested and provoke some butthurtness. In no way did i try to censor you or tell you not to speak up, although i gave reasons why your opinion can be regarded as lesser than mine.

    bite some more! b:pleasedb:cute

    not counting the proc on nirvana and counting the 4% crit off tt 100

    yes tt 100 deals 1% more damage

    keep in mind that every %of crit reduces the boost from demon GS though so it only matters 2/3's on the time your sparked so its closer to a .8x% differance in damage

    tt 100 is only better by that fraction of a % when your in squad play or COA, the rest of the time (pvp, solo/duo tt. grinding, hell even tw on bolt or to make killing a catta easier while its stuned) nirvana g 13 would be better

    my 1st post

    then you freaked out on some omgnub rampage so unless the base meaning of "shut up nub" has changed in the last 5 minutes you did indeed try to censor

    mathmatics my *** base+modifiers from refine or base+% from crit aint rocket science and somone else posted the full numbers a while back

    $ =/= skill, logic, mathmatics, or the ability to work off abstacts of the previous (average refines are up to +6 with a good chunk of my 99 set finished btw most of it solo/duo farmed w/o CS or a large faction or merchanting) so i dont get where your bringing in +10 refines...nobody...cares

    is it your period?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Im the one whos provided mathematical facts and added to this debate. I have no problem with your logic or answers. Im just lol'ing at how butthurt you get.

    FAO noob barb: I dont pay attention to hyper prices / how much hypering you gotta do to level to 100. I was 101 way before all that shizzle. Take note of the 'or w/e' at the end. Regardless of it being 500k - 20mill, its a minimal amount when talking about +10ing stuff. Youre clutching at straws to try to avoid facing the fact that my reasoning is totally acceptable.

    All ive done is given my thoughts and my personal justification and added a bit of trolling to keep you nerdies interested and provoke some butthurtness. In no way did i try to censor you or tell you not to speak up, although i gave reasons why your opinion can be regarded as lesser than mine.

    bite some more! b:pleasedb:cute

    I was pointing out the flaw in your logic. You stated that Joshcja was poor simply because he was not level 100, and since he was not level 100 you concluded that he could not afford the hypers to reach level 100. According to that same logic, anybody level 85-99 (assuming that you hyper starting at level 85) is poor, since they are not level 100, and therefore can not afford the hypers it would take to reach level 100. You also don't know if Joshcja is already using hypers, and only reached level 85 recently, you just assume he isn't. You're logic is flawed.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks
  • ArchSaber - Sanctuary
    ArchSaber - Sanctuary Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City wrote: »
    I was pointing out the flaw in your logic. You stated that Joshcja was poor simply because he was not level 100, and since he was not level 100 you concluded that he could not afford the hypers to reach level 100. According to that same logic, anybody level 85-99 (assuming that you hyper starting at level 85) is poor, since they are not level 100, and therefore can not afford the hypers it would take to reach level 100. You also don't know if Joshcja is already using hypers, and only reached level 85 recently, you just assume he isn't. You're logic is flawed.

    Josh is 100% PvE. So yes her logic is flawwed.
    AP classes are a real butt pounding...
  • LXianghual - Heavens Tear
    LXianghual - Heavens Tear Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    However, in terms of 'DPS' factoring in the 4% crit from the TT100 and Neglecting the hp debuff from nirvana claws. At +12, tt100 wins.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=dc2e0f83894c2e4a TT100 + 12

    Low damage = 4254, Top damage = 4881 4% crit

    (4254+4881)/2 * 1.04 = 4698.2

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=668f80d4a70a495d G13 Nirvana +12

    Low damage = 4386, Top damage = 4995

    (4386+4995)/2 = 4690.5.

    4698.2 (TT100) > 4690.5 (G13 Nirvana)

    (Any comments about the 'model' I used are welcome, I appreciate its fairly crude b:surrender)

    I just wanted to point out that your calculation is flawed, because no BM will have a base crit rate of 0%. For example, assuming that a well geared BM has 20% base crit without weapon (and I think it would be safe to assume that a BM with a +12 weapon would be well geared), the multiplier would then be 1.24 for the TT100 and 1.20 for G13 Nirvana.

    With these, TT100 ends up with a DPH of 5601.7 and G13 a DPH of 5628.6. My base crit is 22% btw with mastery.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Men are moved by two levers only: fear and self interest.
  • Steopie - Heavens Tear
    Steopie - Heavens Tear Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City wrote: »
    I was pointing out the flaw in your logic. You stated that Joshcja was poor simply because he was not level 100, and since he was not level 100 you concluded that he could not afford the hypers to reach level 100. According to that same logic, anybody level 85-99 (assuming that you hyper starting at level 85) is poor, since they are not level 100, and therefore can not afford the hypers it would take to reach level 100. You also don't know if Joshcja is already using hypers, and only reached level 85 recently, you just assume he isn't. You're logic is flawed.

    Im not trying to be logical, I just want to maintain a standard of clientele which I converse and debate with. Also youre a huge carebear. lol.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

    LEAVE JOSH ALONE b:shedtear

    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »


    then you freaked out on some omgnub rampage so unless the base meaning of "shut up nub" has changed in the last 5 minutes you did indeed try to censor

    mathmatics my *** base+modifiers from refine or base+% from crit aint rocket science and somone else posted the full numbers a while back

    $ =/= skill, logic, mathmatics, or the ability to work off abstacts of the previous (average refines are up to +6 with a good chunk of my 99 set finished btw most of it solo/duo farmed w/o CS or a large faction or merchanting) so i dont get where your bringing in +10 refines...nobody...cares

    is it your period?

    tl;dr 'my name is josh. Im poor and worthless and you pointed it out QQQQQQQQQQ' I dont CS either and I could probably buy you out my back pocket, but im not here to show off. I just have issues with nuggle lowbie bm's engaging in conversations where their only experiance is 'i whacked in in pwcalc and think this is best'.
    I just wanted to point out that your calculation is flawed, because no BM will have a base crit rate of 0%. For example, assuming that a well geared BM has 20% base crit without weapon (and I think it would be safe to assume that a BM with a +12 weapon would be well geared), the multiplier would then be 1.24 for the TT100 and 1.20 for G13 Nirvana.

    thankyou for some sound mathematical debate, I thought this might cancel but will investigate further when im done trolling these little nuggles b:cute
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AlbireoTwo - Lost City
    AlbireoTwo - Lost City Posts: 2,056 Arc User
    edited October 2010
    Steopie - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Im not trying to be logical, I just want to maintain a standard of clientele which I converse and debate with. Also youre a huge carebear. lol.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

    LEAVE JOSH ALONE b:shedtear




    tl;dr 'my name is josh. Im poor and worthless and you pointed it out QQQQQQQQQQ' I dont CS either and I could probably buy you out my back pocket, but im not here to show off. I just have issues with nuggle lowbie bm's engaging in conversations where their only experiance is 'i whacked in in pwcalc and think this is best'.



    thankyou for some sound mathematical debate, I thought this might cancel but will investigate further when im done trolling these little nuggles b:cute
    Im the one whos provided mathematical facts and added to this debate. I have no problem with your logic or answers. Im just lol'ing at how butthurt you get.

    FAO noob barb: I dont pay attention to hyper prices / how much hypering you gotta do to level to 100. I was 101 way before all that shizzle. Take note of the 'or w/e' at the end. Regardless of it being 500k - 20mill, its a minimal amount when talking about +10ing stuff. Youre clutching at straws to try to avoid facing the fact that my reasoning is totally acceptable.

    All ive done is given my thoughts and my personal justification and added a bit of trolling to keep you nerdies interested and provoke some butthurtness. In no way did i try to censor you or tell you not to speak up, although i gave reasons why your opinion can be regarded as lesser than mine.

    bite some more!

    You're contradicting yourself now. b:cute

    Since you have nothing substantial left to say.
    b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thank you Forsakenx for the picture. b:thanks

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