haha yes!

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Stupid arguing.

Thing is: a bug that is known "well enough" so that even PWI had enough time to learn about it AND that didn't get fixed even a few weeks later is pretty much an intended feature.

It's not like they have to remake their manufacturing plants. It's a piece of software that has a trivial bug, and nobody is even bothering if they make a cheesy workaround (like setting respawn timers to 2 weeks, so they get reset by the weekly maintenance) instead of a real fix (such as introducing "-1" as a respawn time that means "never").

None of the bugs that I've seen in games has a "major impact" feel to it.

Imagine a bug that lets you turn pure water into gold. 52 game coins to produce a gold --- imagine the rush for cash stuff. Feel free to guess how long it would take them to fix THAT, and whether they would emergency-rollback or not.

Why would fixing another bug be any more difficult?

Indeed, and I bet you anything those who are suggesting that saving instances was exploiting or bug abusing, were beneficiaries of that and guaranteed wouldn't give their 3-3 earned coin/gear back from "exploiting" (in their terms) a non-working mob kill count before one of the more recent updates, whether it be greens, golds, oranges, or quest/BH rewards. Lots of hypocrites around.

Obviously it wasn't an exploit (especially given how long it was around and used) unless it was explicitly stated so.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Yindra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Stupid arguing.

Thing is: a bug that is known "well enough" so that even PWI had enough time to learn about it AND that didn't get fixed even a few weeks later is pretty much an intended feature.

It's not like they have to remake their manufacturing plants. It's a piece of software that has a trivial bug, and nobody is even bothering if they make a cheesy workaround (like setting respawn timers to 2 weeks, so they get reset by the weekly maintenance) instead of a real fix (such as introducing "-1" as a respawn time that means "never").

None of the bugs that I've seen in games has a "major impact" feel to it.

Imagine a bug that lets you turn pure water into gold. 52 game coins to produce a gold --- imagine the rush for cash stuff. Feel free to guess how long it would take them to fix THAT, and whether they would emergency-rollback or not.

Why would fixing another bug be any more difficult?

Yes cause they dont ban Venos who exploit the melee mob glitch with air pets from above right? By your logic thats an intended feature. We ALL know fixing bugs & exploits is not PW's strong suit. So dont fall back on that to claim its an intended feature.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Indeed, and I bet you anything those who are suggesting that saving instances was exploiting or bug abusing, were beneficiaries of that and guaranteed wouldn't give their 3-3 earned coin/gear back from "exploiting" (in their terms) a non-working mob kill count before one of the more recent updates, whether it be greens, golds, oranges, or quest/BH rewards. Lots of hypocrites around.

Obviously it wasn't an exploit (especially given how long it was around and used) unless it was explicitly stated so.

I never ONCE, ever, never benefitted from having an instance saved. and i wouldnt because i knew it was exploiting. So you're assuming too much thinking that those who claim its an exploit were benefitting. And Obviously it wasnt intended as they fixed it with a timer, and that timer was implemented months before they started tweaking TT, so get your timelines straight. I applauded the added timer however i did biitch a little about it being too short for some instances (the instance should be completable for everyone, not just the best of rush squads). Just the fact that they fixed it is all the evidence needed to show it was an exploit.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Obviously it wasn't an exploit (especially given how long it was around and used) unless it was explicitly stated so.

No no and no. What game have you been playing? PWI has stupid really easy to fix bugs that persist for years. Magic defense buff? Getting 1k'd in RB?

Just because something isn't fixed doesn't mean its not broken. Fixing bugs and exploits is very low on the list of priorities for devs. The company only makes money from people buying stuff from the boutique and thats what gets the most attention. Other than that they prioritize new content so they can advertise and draw in new players.

In any case it seems stupid to argue otherwise since this was an exploit that was actually fixed. If this was an intended game mechanic then why did the devs go out of their way to block people from doing it? How come there was no official guide explaining how to do it?

ThrilKill - Heavens Tear

OMG, u guys are still bickering over this fail thread. Let it go, no one ever wins these things.
OP started the thread to show which people cash shop, which was a fail in the first place, and he has been proven well wrong. Now it has become a mass argument over what are bugs and what are glitches. You guys need to leave this place and go play the game the way you like, and d/w about the haters yo

GM's /thread pls?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

lol @ at my 'fan club of idiots' all trying to jump in at once.

Your logic is horrible and you keep arguing just for the sake of it. Even though you're wrong. Horribly. Wow... I'm laughing so hard and feeling so sorry for you guys, it's just amazing.

Say one thing, backtrack, change your story, say another thing... wow, at least be consistent and correct. hahaha

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

/facedesk

You do know what rephrasing means right? And that I admitted exploit was a more proper word for "saving instances" (not mob respawns).

Borsuc, SHUT UP already. You argued for a HALF A DOZEN posts that it was a glitch.

Instances not kicking people out and open until maintenance kicks you out = not a glitch
Mobs respawning = not a glitch.

I've never once said it wasn't being exploited. Only that the game mechanics were working as they were designed. Instances did not have a timer and would not kick you out. Working as intended. Mobs and bosses respawn at specific times after they are killed. Working as intended.

So you've reworded yourself after you looked like an idiot over and over, and even AFTER I told you to go look up the definitions you kept arguing, then changed your stance... because you're being an idiot.

Go away already.

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

You can has reading comprehension?
Me stated it be an exploit, not a glitch. (Since even though it was coded, developers didn't mean for it to happen.)
The developers did include a respawn timer for the old instance most likely because they be only human and lazy (they just recycled the mob respawn thingy for bosses but with a bit longer time.)
Obviously they didn't mean for people to just sit there, wait for the boss to spawn, kill boss, repeat.

And of course me am happy with me current brain size, it be sufficient for me needs and endeavors.
Humans with their large and horribly inefficient brains be nothing to envy.
b:bye

Yes me will nibble me way through a bag of peanuts.
:<
Me do happen to forage my own food. (It be me own personal preference, mayhaps me has been around humans for too long.) x.x'
.-.

Wow, brain ****?

Where did you say any of the stuff you just said?

You're a worthless troll with nothing to say. STOP MAKING UP STUFF.

You said... bad coding = flaw, in regards to something I didn't word more clearly enough for your little rodent brain to grasp. Don't believe me? Reread your post. Then go back to mine where I clarified. Geez.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10259322&postcount=178

The context of the discussion to what you quoted was for the argument that Held Instances were a glitch. They are not.

You go on to cite "bad coding = design flaw"

Please show me in this thread AFTER this post where you stated that you had said the things in this currently quoted post of yours. You're high. You didn't say that till now.

Please explain how holding an instance was actually bad coding or a design flaw? In fact, it's not a design flaw at all, it is working exactly as it should have. The fact that people may or may not have exploited it is another thing altogether. However calling it a glitch or design flaw is idiocy at it's most supreme.

At least Rose has 9k+ posts of being helpful. You just have 9k posts acting like a **** rodent version of Jar Jar Binks.

b:bye

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes, since all mobs respawn, they gave it 24 hours (highest probably) to the TT bosses, thinking it's enough.

But then the devs found out obsessive people were still abusing it by keeping the instance open for more than 24 hours straight, which they didn't imagine anyone would do.

Then they needed months to figure out how to prevent this, so they added a timer in the end to kick all people out from the instance after it runs out.


No, mobs respawning wasn't a bug or a glitch, people saving the instances for more than 24 hours were exploiting a design flaw in the code, though. That thing was not intended since it was changed.

Are we done yet? ffs

Bosses respawned in 20 hours. Mobs in 4-6 hours. We would be done if you even knew what you were talking about and at least could get your facts straight.

It took months to 'fix'? Source? Or are you just making up a statement and providing it as fact when you have no real clue what you're talking about? lol

Also, it wasn't a design flaw in the code. The code was working exactly as it was designed to.

What a bunch of idiots.

---

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

No no and no. What game have you been playing? PWI has stupid really easy to fix bugs that persist for years. Magic defense buff? Getting 1k'd in RB?

Just because something isn't fixed doesn't mean its not broken. Fixing bugs and exploits is very low on the list of priorities for devs. The company only makes money from people buying stuff from the boutique and thats what gets the most attention. Other than that they prioritize new content so they can advertise and draw in new players.

In any case it seems stupid to argue otherwise since this was an exploit that was actually fixed. If this was an intended game mechanic then why did the devs go out of their way to block people from doing it? How come there was no official guide explaining how to do it?

Nothing had to be **** or glitched for this to occur. I'm not saying this wasn't an exploit, however the game mechanics as they were designed were working just as intended. This wasn't like pulling a mob to glitch 1-1/2, this isn't a ****, there wasn't any special set of circumstances that had to be met for this to work.

The facts are: Instances did not kick you out. Working as intended. Mobs/Bosses respawning at their pre-determined respawn times. Working as Intended. Bad coding? No, it's not a glitch or a bug. Intended design? Unknown. Exploited? Yes it was.

Also, if this wasn't an intended game mechanic, why do HH Bosses have a 20 hour respawn time, why do HH mobs have a 4-6 hour respawn time. World bosses respawn every 24 hours and other bosses respawn at other specific set intervals. Why do mobs in FB51 have a 30 minute respawn time? Why 20 hours instead of 24 which would probably be some default setting?

I won't pretend to know and I won't make up something to suit the argument. I don't think you should either.

RedsRose - Lost City

b:cry I just re-checked my IQ and it dropped 2 points from reading this thread b:cry


*goes to read One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey again for the 3 points back*

b:cute

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

b:cry I just re-checked my IQ and it dropped 2 points from reading this thread b:cry


*goes to read One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey again for the 3 points back*

b:cute

ROFLMAO, Rose. You just made my day..err..night. b:chuckle

Michael_Dark - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

b:cry I just re-checked my IQ and it dropped 2 points from reading this thread b:cry


*goes to read One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest by Ken Kesey again for the 3 points back*

b:cute

Yes, I have no clue why I'm still posting. b:surrender

The real argument was over a dozen pages ago... the rest are remnants of people coming in trying to nitpick and horribly failing.

RedsRose - Lost City

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ROFLMAO, Rose. You just made my day..err..night. b:chuckle

It was that or Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck b:cute

Asheera - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Also, it wasn't a design flaw in the code. The code was working exactly as it was designed to.

What a bunch of idiots.

---

Also, if this wasn't an intended game mechanic, why do HH Bosses have a 20 hour respawn time, why do HH mobs have a 4-6 hour respawn time. World bosses respawn every 24 hours and other bosses respawn at other specific set intervals. Why do mobs in FB51 have a 30 minute respawn time? Why 20 hours instead of 24 which would probably be some default setting?

Why they added timer? b:bye


And yeah it wasn't a design flaw in the code, sure dude. 1k in rebirth works as intended too, and all the other bugs, I mean they run the code they made, which is what they intended obviously, no? /sarcasm

omg what an idiot.

and seriously, like half of argues on the forums are with these few "elite" Lost City morons. And only they back each other up and say how they "laugh" at all the other people on the servers. When a person (or a minority) calls everyone else idiots, it makes you wonder who is actually the true idiot around here.

Not to mention after playing PWI for so long you still cling to the stupid PW-MY terms, you must have had a brainfart and can't adapt or improve which actually shows why you fail so much at logic.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Nothing had to be **** or glitched for this to occur. I'm not saying this wasn't an exploit, however the game mechanics as they were designed were working just as intended. This wasn't like pulling a mob to glitch 1-1/2, this isn't a ****, there wasn't any special set of circumstances that had to be met for this to work.

The facts are: Instances did not kick you out. Working as intended. Mobs/Bosses respawning at their pre-determined respawn times. Working as Intended. Bad coding? No, it's not a glitch or a bug. Intended design? Unknown. Exploited? Yes it was.

How do you reconcile these two contradictory claims? You can't both say it works as intended and then claim that the intention is unknown.

Lots of times in lazy programming you use a very large or unusual value as a stand-in for infinity. Noone ever said you need to **** to exploit poorly programmed game mechanics.

People waiting for a day in the instance is clearly unintended as evidenced by the new instance timers they added specifically to prevent it. The new timer speaks more to developer intention than any claim of yours.

Before you claim that things were working as intended you should ask yourself why they felt a need to add the timer.

kenlee

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Before you claim that things were working as intended you should ask yourself why they felt a need to add the timer.

because if i was a lazy developer or thinking about minimum memory resources there would only one class that define all mobs/bosses and one of the object properties would be respawn time. that would be one of my assumptions

Borsuc - Raging Tide

I believe there's a reason to the respawn times instead of it being higher. I bet it has to do with memory consumption or list parsing since instances are, well, instances... (duplicate for each squad). Mobs naturally are more plentiful than bosses hence the lower respawn times? Dunno just a thought lol.

As for Michael I really don't bother with your **** anymore, cause you just keep on going to what I said pages back. Glitch was not the proper word or what I had in mind. Ok I was an "idiot" (if you call every mistake that) for saying that once, but at least I won't remain an idiot forever like you. b:bye

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes cause they dont ban Venos who exploit the melee mob glitch with air pets from above right? By your logic thats an intended feature. We ALL know fixing bugs & exploits is not PW's strong suit. So dont fall back on that to claim its an intended feature.

Actually this was stated it's exploitation of a glitch and bannable. However..

I never ONCE, ever, never benefitted from having an instance saved. and i wouldnt because i knew it was exploiting. So you're assuming too much thinking that those who claim its an exploit were benefitting. And Obviously it wasnt intended as they fixed it with a timer, and that timer was implemented months before they started tweaking TT, so get your timelines straight. I applauded the added timer however i did biitch a little about it being too short for some instances (the instance should be completable for everyone, not just the best of rush squads). Just the fact that they fixed it is all the evidence needed to show it was an exploit.

The timer was added as a response to the instance saving. There is no doubt about that, and I have not argued otherwise. Reading comprehension please.

However, I guaran-****ing-tee you have benefited greatly from exploiting a "glitch" that allowed you to kill 3-3 bosses (up until a few updates ago) without even killing any mobs evading an obviously not-working mob kill count, therefore have used an exploit, by your logic. So I hope you will give back all the gear you earned from exploiting 3-3. Even though it was never stated (unless someone shows me a GM/dev post stating so) that this was a glitch any more than a person being able to solo 2 bosses at a time in, say, 3-1, with a single herc, we could also say, by similar logic you have espoused, that the mob counts added to other TT instances were a fix to an exploit of people farming using a tactic of rushing opposed to killing x amount of mobs. It must have been intended.. they "fixed" it. b:chuckle Honestly, that's such a laughable rationale that saving instances was an exploit just because GM's added a timer to counter it. Btw, guys, farming Nirvana using BB throughout most of it.. that was an exploit too, since they changed all the bosses to seal and drop BB. It must have been, because they fixed it. Wow, I'm getting the hang of this argument now..

MagicHamsta - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

It was that or Of Mice and Men by John Steinbeck b:cute

Lennie~~~~
b:sad

Okie me might as well mess around with Michael some more.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Where did you say any of the stuff you just said? In me post. b:avoid

You're a worthless troll with nothing to say. STOP MAKING UP STUFF.

You said... bad coding = flaw, in regards to something I didn't word more clearly enough for your little rodent brain to grasp. Don't believe me? Reread your post. Then go back to mine where I clarified. Geez.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10259322&postcount=178

The context of the discussion to what you quoted was for the argument that Held Instances were a glitch. They are not. No, me don't consider held instances a glitch. Me considered it a design flaw. Glitches be a bit different. (>.<)/COLOR]

You go on to cite "bad coding = design flaw"

Please show me in this thread AFTER this post where you stated that you had said the things in this currently quoted post of yours. You're high. You didn't say that till now.

Please explain how holding an instance was actually bad coding or a design flaw? It be bad coding because. 1. Devs reused the mob behavior of normal mobs. Behavior which includes a respawn after a certain amount of time. 2. They (the developers) have not intended people to hold instances and just farm the bosses over and over again. (Hence the "fix" for this exploit.) In fact, it's not a design flaw at all, it is working exactly as it should have. The fact that people may or may not have exploited it is another thing altogether. However calling it a glitch or design flaw is idiocy at it's most supreme.

At least Rose has 9k+ posts of being helpful. You just have 9k posts acting like a **** rodent version of Jar Jar Binks.

b:bye




Bosses respawned in 20 hours. Mobs in 4-6 hours. We would be done if you even knew what you were talking about and at least could get your facts straight.

It took months to 'fix'? Source? Or are you just making up a statement and providing it as fact when you have no real clue what you're talking about? lol

Also, it wasn't a design flaw in the code. The code was working exactly as it was designed to.

What a bunch of idiots.

---

Nothing had to be **** or glitched for this to occur. I'm not saying this wasn't an exploit, however the game mechanics as they were designed were working just as intended. This wasn't like pulling a mob to glitch 1-1/2, this isn't a ****, there wasn't any special set of circumstances that had to be met for this to work.

The facts are: Instances did not kick you out. Working as intended. Mobs/Bosses respawning at their pre-determined respawn times. Working as Intended. Bad coding? No, it's not a glitch or a bug. Intended design? Unknown. Exploited? Yes it was.

Also, if this wasn't an intended game mechanic, why do HH Bosses have a 20 hour respawn time, why do HH mobs have a 4-6 hour respawn time. World bosses respawn every 24 hours and other bosses respawn at other specific set intervals. Why do mobs in FB51 have a 30 minute respawn time? Why 20 hours instead of 24 which would probably be some default setting?

I won't pretend to know and I won't make up something to suit the argument. I don't think you should either.

Now how do me know this?
Because me am a hamster and me know humans more then most humans know themselves.
^.^
And fear the Senator of Gungans? (O_o)'
Me don't think the correlation between Jar jar binks and me be fitting.
.-.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually this was stated it's exploitation of a glitch and bannable. However..


The timer was added as a response to the instance saving. There is no doubt about that, and I have not argued otherwise. Reading comprehension please.

However, I guaran-****ing-tee you have benefited greatly from exploiting a "glitch" that allowed you to kill 3-3 bosses (up until a few updates ago) without even killing any mobs evading an obviously not-working mob kill count, therefore have used an exploit, by your logic. So I hope you will give back all the gear you earned from exploiting 3-3. Even though it was never stated (unless someone shows me a GM/dev post stating so) that this was a glitch any more than a person being able to solo 2 bosses at a time in, say, 3-1, with a single herc, we could also say, by similar logic you have espoused, that the mob counts added to other TT instances were a fix to an exploit of people farming using a tactic of rushing opposed to killing x amount of mobs. It must have been intended.. they "fixed" it. b:chuckle Honestly, that's such a laughable rationale that saving instances was an exploit just because GM's added a timer to counter it. Btw, guys, farming Nirvana using BB throughout most of it.. that was an exploit too, since they changed all the bosses to seal and drop BB. It must have been, because they fixed it. Wow, I'm getting the hang of this argument now..

By that logic, the fact that a party of level 88s with +3 gear or less were able to kill the GBA monster in 3-1 must have been an exploit, cause they changed that. Oh and recieving money for TW must have been an exploit, cause they changed that. The 3-3 change where you didnt have to kill mobs before was not an exploit, it may have been a bug, i cant say, but there was never any popup saying we had to kill mobs in 3-3 before, where as there was in 3-1 & 3-2. If such a popup existed, but it still didnt count the mobs, then your point could be valid. Even so, now that mobs have to be killed, i know thats their intentions & havent whined about needing to kill mobs for a counter now.

No not all changes are changes on exploits, but the fact that people had to hold an instance open for 20+ hours is obvious to anyone with a monkey brain as not as intended. Have you ever played a game where something like this was allowed? You even said yourself you found it stated it was bannable & not intended, so thereby any arguments saying that it was intended are moot. But simple logical deduction could tell people that they are cheating the system, just the same as pulling mobs through doors, or air-petting melee mobs in a placement where they cant attack back.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

It's just that some people lack common sense really.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Please explain how holding an instance was actually bad coding or a design flaw? In fact, it's not a design flaw at all, it is working exactly as it should have.

I agree it's not a "glitch" but I do not understand your logic behind saying it's not a "design flaw."

Just because an instance could be held until mean it was meant to be held. It probably never accord to the designers that someone would actually do that. Bosses respawn because they work under the same parameters that all mobs do, therefore they require a respawn time.

The design flaw itself lies in the fact that instances could be held when they were obviously not meant to be held. The ability the hold the instance is the design flaw being spoken of.

Just because something works "The way it was designed" as you say does not necessarily mean it was designed correctly. Hence why it is being called a design flaw (While glitch, as you said, would be an incorrect term)


I build a toaster oven, it's designed to heat the food placed in it, but it has a slight problem. If you leave it on for more than 30 minutes it's coils melt and fuse together. By your arguement it was still doing what it was designed to do, heat food. But, even while doing what it was designed to do it eventually harm itself, which (hopefully) is most definitely not intended. Therefore while it may still do what it's designed to do, it's design is flawed in that it can only heat for 30 minutes.

Am I making any sense here?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Why they added timer? b:bye


And yeah it wasn't a design flaw in the code, sure dude. 1k in rebirth works as intended too, and all the other bugs, I mean they run the code they made, which is what they intended obviously, no? /sarcasm

/facepalm

Obviously, the added the timer because people were exploiting the way the game naturally functions. Please explain what part of the design is actually flawed. Please link to sources that tell you that instances and respawning weren't working the way they should.

Being ported out of Rebirth or Warsong isn't the same thing.

Idiot.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

How do you reconcile these two contradictory claims? You can't both say it works as intended and then claim that the intention is unknown.

Ok, you're going to be a bonehead about it.

First statement = mechanics involved are functioning as intended. Please explain how Instances or Respawning were not working as intended, as they do anywhere else in-game. Is there an inconsistency? Is there a bug/glitch that kept them from behaving differently if things were done? Could you not always count on this?

The behavior of instances NOT kicking you out or resetting was part of the original game mechanics and was functioning properly.

The behavior of respawning was part of the original game mechanics and was funcitoning properly.

Is that too adult a puzzle for you to grasp?

Second statement, in a separate paragraph, which is designed so communication can change direction so that readers may find themselves aware of this... Intended design to allow people to hold instances? Unknown. Neither you, nor anyone else in here are a part of the development staff and have any actual knowledge of what they decided or didn't decide was an issue worth changing.

Please provide any statistics regarding how often people did this, how many times it's been reported, how long ago they were first made aware of this, their internal notes on what they classified this as, or if the recent change was just to curb the people overfarming on the CN servers.

Oh, that's right, you can't.

Lots of times in lazy programming you use a very large or unusual value as a stand-in for infinity. Noone ever said you need to **** to exploit poorly programmed game mechanics.

Ok, poorly programmed game mechanics. Please detail how any other instance or any other respawning issues were poorly programmed or glitched.

I'm not stating that holding instances was ever considered to be part of the game, or that the developers had even considered it, but the mechanics involved were not broken.

People waiting for a day in the instance is clearly unintended as evidenced by the new instance timers they added specifically to prevent it. The new timer speaks more to developer intention than any claim of yours.

Before you claim that things were working as intended you should ask yourself why they felt a need to add the timer.

Ok, I'll give in. I was saving this little bit for someone bright enough to catch on and say it. But after all these pages of idiocy, sadly nobody still has, not even your magnificence.

This time, the flaw isn't in the code. The flaw was with the designers who didn't have the foresight to realize or expect that people would use this properly functioning game mechanic to their advantage. Their fix, nearly 3 years later, was to add a limit to how long you could actually stay in the game.

Instances themselves and mobs respawning weren't broken.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

By that logic, the fact that a party of level 88s with +3 gear or less were able to kill the GBA monster in 3-1 must have been an exploit, cause they changed that. Oh and recieving money for TW must have been an exploit, cause they changed that. The 3-3 change where you didnt have to kill mobs before was not an exploit, it may have been a bug, i cant say, but there was never any popup saying we had to kill mobs in 3-3 before, where as there was in 3-1 & 3-2. If such a popup existed, but it still didnt count the mobs, then your point could be valid. Even so, now that mobs have to be killed, i know thats their intentions & havent whined about needing to kill mobs for a counter now.

No not all changes are changes on exploits, but the fact that people had to hold an instance open for 20+ hours is obvious to anyone with a monkey brain as not as intended. Have you ever played a game where something like this was allowed? You even said yourself you found it stated it was bannable & not intended, so thereby any arguments saying that it was intended are moot. But simple logical deduction could tell people that they are cheating the system, just the same as pulling mobs through doors, or air-petting melee mobs in a placement where they cant attack back.

Yes, indeed there very much WAS a pop-up with a kill count. You just ignored it because you didn't have to. That was, once more, an exploit, by your logic. Congrats!

Simply put, merely because developers change something does not mean the opposite was not intended. As we know, with the air pet on ground mob thing, it has openly and numerous times been expressed to be a glitch and exploiting it is against the rules and bannable. Has been stated numerous times pulling a pet through a door is exploitation of a glitch, was not intended, and is bannable. Where is the post expressing that saving instances was bannable, confirming your glitch belief? There were countless posts from users saying how they saved instances for TT, FF, BH, and the like, and plenty of opportunities to express that it wasn't as intended, yet.. ta-da! Nothing.

There's so many examples to squash your assertion I'll just reiterate the Nirvana one -- most Nirvana bosses could be done with BB up, but now that every boss seals and BB gets perpetually knocked out, using BB must have been a glitch, as developers changed this meaning it was not as intended, therefore people using BB were exploiting a glitch. b:bye Christ, that's way too easy.

The timer was obviously a counter to how many people were farming TT via double drops (putting way too many 3-3 mats into the game, clogging up the AH, clogging up catshops, and devaluing end-game **** by an enormous proportion), which went skyrocketing following implementation of said timer, and plummeted further on down the road when those TTs were changed yet again to make the instances even tougher and more difficult to farm mats (along with Nirvana). Is it really this difficult to figure out for you?

GohRaL - Sanctuary

Call it whatever you want mr michael but if they set a payment fee (subs) for the instance to be opened then it means that the instance can be used once at time...and every new run you will have to pay to enter it...

Keeping the instance open and wait for respawn wasnt ment in game mechanic cuz is just self contradictory, this is why they put a timer...i wont see any other reason to put it otherwise...


I usually agree at your post cuz you always argue your motivation and state it clearly, but not this time on this issue...

If you say that you can recognize your mistake, then be consisten and admit this WASNT intended...you dont have to apologize or wtf else other says but just admit u were wrong once on this matter...


b:thanks

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »

Call it whatever you want mr michael but if they set a payment fee (subs) for the instance to be opened then it means that the instance can be used once at time...and every new run you will have to pay to enter it...

Keeping the instance open and wait for respawn wasnt ment in game mechanic cuz is just self contradictory, this is why they put a timer...i wont see any other reason to put it otherwise...


I usually agree at your post cuz you always argue your motivation and state it clearly, but not this time on this issue...

If you say that you can recognize your mistake, then be consisten and admit this WASNT intended...you dont have to apologize or wtf else other says but just admit u were wrong once on this matter...


b:thanks

Wow, so does this made up rule (that I never saw any dev/GM declare) about an instance only being used once with subs also go for FF and FB instances? Where did you happen to pick this up?

How about respawning Hexocelot Mistrealm Warrior's in FB51? By your logic, completing Sign of the Talon quests waiting for them to respawn wasn't "ment as in game mechanic". Sorry guys, you gotta re-enter the instance as that obviously wasn't intended.

The only real logical point to adding the timer was the same logical point of making TT and Nirvana more difficult and tweaking how bosses act -- which was to control the amount of mats being distributed, especially end-game mats that people should be spending more zen to get, hence why we haven't seen a peep of double drops since, until we reach that 130k goal (but a pretty much perpetual double/triple xp). Remember, going by a company's logic, and not some individual's beliefs as a player.

If anything people should be outraged at lame *** tweaks the company did to make current normal instances more difficult instead of creating new, difficult content for more skilled higher levels and using aforementioned timers and controls for them to keep under strict control how many of it's items exist. No, let's just pretend that they knew and did jack **** this whole time because they sure intended to fix it all along instead of wait for endgame mats to become this devalued before beefing back up the price with these changes. It's clear as day PWE had long knew of saving instances and did nothing whatsoever, so by virtue of action of not addressing it, nor declaring such an act a circumvention of intended playing, much like how quick they came out to make sure people knew how using air pets like a nix on, say, Whirlpool Wraithtortoise, was bannable, they certainly intended for people to continue using saved instances to farm TT, run FF's, and BH's. Then, they followed that up with intending to change them. Easy.

teethewicked

Why should it even matter whether or not I spent real moneys on the botique? OP makes it sound like anyone who does so is fail. Far from the truth. While I only get to spend MAYBE $10-20 real moneys on the boutique each month, I am not only a casual gamer, but my computer cannot handle running anything else while PWI is running, and I refuse to leave my computer running constantly when I am not using it, as it would run up my electric bill. Because of this, I cannot do merchanting to purchase my gold with coins, so I pretty much have no choice but to spend real moneys. Lately, I've been trying my hand at Gold Trading for profit, and so far, I've gone from 1 Gold to 4 in about a week. Not much, but a start.

Bottom line is, while there are obviously going to be sophomoric idiots who shell out big bucks to become lvl 90+ noobs, not everyone is like this. Just because a person has bought from the boutique doesn't mean they used real moneys, and if the do use real moneys, why is that any worse than spending real moneys on XBox Live, the PS3 equivalent(I don't know what it is called) or anything else one shells our real moneys to purchase for leisure? As long as you have fun, and don't become a burden on others by being an idiot, then what is the problem?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How about respawning Hexocelot Mistrealm Warrior's in FB51? By your logic, completing Sign of the Talon quests waiting for them to respawn wasn't "ment as in game mechanic". Sorry guys, you gotta re-enter the instance as that obviously wasn't intended.

Did you really wait a day in your fb51 to do a stupid quest? That is pretty ridiculous. Everyone else did it in much less time.

It is absurd to think waiting AFK in an instance for 24 hours is an intended game mechanic for anything. No game would ever ask its players to do this since its boring to do nothing for so long. Why do you hold such a stupid belief so strongly?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »

Call it whatever you want mr michael but if they set a payment fee (subs) for the instance to be opened then it means that the instance can be used once at time...and every new run you will have to pay to enter it...

Where does it say that the instance was meant to be used once? The fee is to open it. There was no time limit on how long you could be in there until recently. There was no notice that says you must leave after you have finished.

I don't disagree that the development team probably never figured anyone would stay in there that long, but to say that the game mechanics of leaving it open and having it respawn is due to glitching or bad code is just wrong.

Keeping the instance open and wait for respawn wasnt ment in game mechanic cuz is just self contradictory, this is why they put a timer...i wont see any other reason to put it otherwise...

They put in a timer to combat bot-farming on the CN servers. Until bot-farming became an issue, the instances had no timer. For years. Nearly 3 years.

If it was such a big deal before, why didn't they correct it sooner, or make it against the rules and bannable? Because before that it didn't matter to them.

I usually agree at your post cuz you always argue your motivation and state it clearly, but not this time on this issue...

If you say that you can recognize your mistake, then be consisten and admit this WASNT intended...you dont have to apologize or wtf else other says but just admit u were wrong once on this matter...

I've not made any mistake in this particular topic, imo. The mechanics of this game permitted that. No GM or official source has ever stated that it is not allowed or is bannable. It certainly wasn't a glitch. It wasn't a bug either. It isn't bad code that allowed it. The properly functioning game mechanics allowed it. It doesn't matter if the developers intended for it to happen or not, the game and held instances were working predictably.

People have been holding instances on PWI nearly as long as the game has been out. People on CN have probably been doing it longer. Find me one GM post on this board, which has posts dating back well over 2 years, that says that holding an instance is a violation of the rules or TOS. Find me a single one please.

You can't. There isn't one. The exploitation of holding instances is gone so this is really a moot issue. That's ALL that I'm saying.

Personally, it sounds like most people want to blame PWI and call everything a bug or a glitch when it may not be. I'm saying it was neither.

kenlee

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ok, poorly programmed game mechanics. Please detail how any other instance or any other respawning issues were poorly programmed or glitched.

I'm not stating that holding instances was ever considered to be part of the game, or that the developers had even considered it, but the mechanics involved were not broken.

not poorly programed but was designed to reuse resource instead of creating new ones (new objects in programming) and get more memory occupied but obviously they failed somewhere and probably dont bother reworking the code just doing a workaround. thats why sometimes some people that went offline/dc can get in other people instances like FC. they reuse resources even in the most cheapest way, sometimes you dont even get some bosses in TT/nirvana (doesnt spawn).. other times you get 2
just seen one of the glitches some months ago with my own eyes.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9156/lolboss.jpg
i mean... seriously...

about holding instance, i wasnt for or against them. never used it since i dont have patience to keep a comp up 24 hours just for a damn instance. you could do it, nobody said dont do it

MagicHamsta - Lost City

It be amusing watching michael go.
>:3

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ok, I'll give in. I was saving this little bit for someone bright enough to catch on and say it. But after all these pages of idiocy, sadly nobody still has, not even your magnificence.

This time, the flaw isn't in the code. The flaw was with the designers who didn't have the foresight to realize or expect that people would use this properly functioning game mechanic to their advantage. Their fix, nearly 3 years later, was to add a limit to how long you could actually stay in the game.

Instances themselves and mobs respawning weren't broken.

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

The developers did include a respawn timer for the old instance most likely because they be only human and lazy (they just recycled the mob respawn thingy for bosses but with a bit longer time.)

^.^
b:bye
Silly Michael, you be only human.
(>.<)'
There be things that can sneak past you..
b:avoid
If the developers ever played any RPG with mob respawns they would know you could camp mobs spawns (hence why bosses have long respawn time, they assumed that the long respawn time would discourage players from farming bosses....of course they were just being lazy.)

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I've not made any mistake in this particular topic, imo. The mechanics of this game permitted that. No GM or official source has ever stated that it is not allowed or is bannable. It certainly wasn't a glitch. It wasn't a bug either. It isn't bad code that allowed it. The properly functioning game mechanics allowed it. It doesn't matter if the developers intended for it to happen or not, the game and held instances were working predictably.

Wow you just don't get it. Let me write your post based on security flaws/exploits found in applications so you can see the analogy because you're lacking brain capacity apparently: (comments in green are my additions to it)

The mechanics of this application permitted that. No programmer or official source has ever stated that it is not allowed or is going to get you to jail. [of course they haven't, that's how stuff is exploited in the first place, if everyone was aware or had foresight no app would have security flaws] It certainly wasn't a glitch. [most of exploits in applications are due to a specific ruleset they implemented that would allow a hijack, usually found by reverse engineering; not glitch but doesn't mean developers intended/thought of it] It wasn't a bug either. [what's the difference between a bug and a glitch anyway?] It isn't bad code that allowed it. [what's bad code?] The properly functioning application mechanics allowed it. It doesn't matter if the developers intended for it to happen or not, the app and security flaws were working predictably. [so predictable that someone could write an application (i.e bot) to do it over and over with 100% accuracy]

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Did you really wait a day in your fb51 to do a stupid quest? That is pretty ridiculous. Everyone else did it in much less time.

It is absurd to think waiting AFK in an instance for 24 hours is an intended game mechanic for anything. No game would ever ask its players to do this since its boring to do nothing for so long. Why do you hold such a stupid belief so strongly?

Yes, 24 hours, because there aren't any Warriors (and other walkers) who re-spawn in 15 minutes.. right? Have you been to FB51 like.. ever? If so, might not have made such a foolish retort.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Because totally fb51 is the only instance with a 20/20/20 (or even less!) quest and not enough mobs in there. b:bye