Cleric's Revive Skill

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

I'm more concerned about people's priorities, and if I think a cleric can't be assed to help me, I'm not exactly motivated to help them.

+1

Metal mages who don't care about party health and would rather DD than do their jobs (because quite frankly a cleric isn't needed to DD, that's not why they're invited) will never get a spot in my squad... or if it's faction BH or something, I'll just let them aggro stuff and die. And when they QQ, I just say heal instead of metal mage and I might actually try to save your **** when you do something stupid.

Jellytoast - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

+1

Metal mages who don't care about party health and would rather DD than do their jobs (because quite frankly a cleric isn't needed to DD, that's not why they're invited) will never get a spot in my squad... or if it's faction BH or something, I'll just let them aggro stuff and die. And when they QQ, I just say heal instead of metal mage and I might actually try to save your **** when you do something stupid.

Agreed. Clerics are a main component of most successful squads, therefore we do play for healing and not to DD.
Aside from squads healing/rezzing isn't as prominent. (Except healing yourself of course b:chuckle)

Silest - Sanctuary

Celo - Sanctuary wrote: »

lol, cleric may lost their jobs as a healer.

No if its a CLERIC ONLY skill.

Lenore - Harshlands

Quite a few MMOs I've played have a self-res skill reserved for clerics/priests. It usually involves a massive cooldown so you can't abuse it, but it's perfect for "oops" scenarios, kind of like a res scroll except it's a skill. I am not too fond of the idea of clerics being able to cast party res on themselves because the point of protecting the cleric is so they can save the party. However, if a skill were to be implemented with like a 30-60 minute cooldown in which the cleric can stand up on the spot and save as much XP as their party res can save, I think that would be fair.

Teaianna - Sanctuary

The higher level that I have become I have admittingly become more cold hearted to rezing someone. if they are in squad with me, or if I am in the same area as them I will rez - I even find myself looking sometimes if I am in the swamp area just glancing to make sure there is no dead people since that is like a death zone there for players. But I refuse to fly across the map to rez someone for two reasons:

1. people need to learn to check the nearby player options (letter T on the keyboard and unclick all classes but clerics)
2. I can not tell you how many times I have flown across the map or town teled to someone to rez only to find them already up and they just "forgot" to tell me or there is a cleric on the same screen that could have easily rezed without me flying across the map.

I also have an idea for the cleric class, which is I think genies should have a rez skill for clerics only, and I also think they higher the skill the less exp lost.

Ninnuam - Sanctuary

Good topic :]
I won't argue that a level11 rez is nice, it really is yes, but in all honesty it's not 20 mil nice.

Lemme put it this way. I came back to the game 2 months ago at 40 something %. Nirvana was awesome sauce at the time, and I pretty much lived in there for a month or so. On the very first boss, most squads insisted we don't kill the gargoyles in order to save time but rather stand really close so someone can AD the entire squad when the traps go off. It worked, some of the time. Depending on our DD, it usually took 3-5 ADs before the boss would die. I just loved hearing "Trust me Ninny, I got this AD!" BOOM SQUAD WIPE. Ninny gets up and loses 0.3% each time. Or we get to the white/black mob boss, and someone fails to kill a black mob and hits the white mob instead. Boom instant 10k aoe a split second apart. Or we're doing Tyrant and the tank doesn't run from the AOE in time and causes a squad wipe (not as common of a scenario but been known to happen if DDs are super squishy and there's no back up tank). Ninny gets up and loses 0.3% again. A month or so down the line Ninny goes from 40 something % to 8%. 2months later Ninny's at 0%.

None of these deaths were my fault, but I was the one who had to town while the rest of the squad sat there and waited for a rez.

Before someone jumps the gun, I will admit to having my own fails where I failed to run from the AOE fast enough, or failed my turn to AD or was distracted and didn't notice a DD taking aggro fast enough. Mind you, noone's perfect. But heck it's but a fraction of a fraction in comparison to the deaths others caused me.

At that point, I pretty much gave up any hope of ever reaching 101 (I've been 100 for well over a year now ).

Another thing to keep in mind is the cost. On Sanctuary, level11 rez goes for 20 million coins. A guardian angel is roughly 100k. On that note, I would have to rez the same person 200 times to justify spending 20mil so that person doesn't lose anything when they get rezzed by a mere level 10 rez.

So what some of some of you are saying is, we should spend 20 million coins so you don't lose xp when you die. On top of it, we should spend 200k for a rez scroll + GA every time we die to protect ourselves from losing xp and saving you the wait of us getting back to the instance.

I agree, clerics have the option of rez scroll + GA. But guess what, so does everyone else.

Dunno about you, but if I wasted 200k every time I died in Nirvana due to someone elses fault, I wouldn't be making a profit from the runs, I would be in debt by now.

I have all my sage heals, and most of my sage attacks. I simply can not justify spending 20 mil if the person who wants that rez can spend a mere 100k. I mean that's a +7 refine right there.

So in all honesty, when I see an idiot begging faction chat specifically for a cleric that has lvl11 rez to come do XYZ instance, while there's half a dozen clerics with lvl10 rez willing to go, I cringe for not being able to downgrade my rez to level 1, go do the instance with them, let them die on purpose, then rez them and lol in their snout. Even more so if the idiot asking for a lvl11 rez cleric killed countless clerics due to their own failures time and again.

Flame on!

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

You list most of what I'd have to say about this issue Ninny, so I won't be repeating what you just said.

Instead let me add this. At the moment I am lv 93 cleric with TT90 armor and a legendary sword. Now, if I were somehow to acquire (To this day I haven't spent 1 rl cent in the game myself) 20 mil, should I use it to get lv 11 sage rez, or maybe upgrade my gear? That's a huge amount of money and I could get a new better weapon, better armor, more charms with that kind of money. All of these would allow me to do my MAIN job much better, that is healing than getting lv 11 rez would since I'd be able to take more punishment, my heals would be stronger and as a result there'd be less deaths to begin with.

You people want lv 11 rez'? What about lowering the price of those books? It's those nonclerics hanging that rez book I'D LOVE TO GET infront of us, but then say that we need to shell out an insane amount of money for it.

I know that clerics life is that of poverty and that if you mind losing xp, you've chosen the wrong class. However, I would like to remind people that if you have high expectations for your clerics, your clerics then should also have at least equally high expectations for you to support them to become better.

If for example you happen to get a demon/sage rez book and there's 1 specific cleric you squad with. It would be common sense to give that book to that cleric for free, since you'll be the one enjoying the benefits of that.

If you expect clerics to spend high sums of money to be able to support you, then you should be there helping them do so as much as you can.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Hazumu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you expect clerics to spend high sums of money to be able to support you, then you should be there helping them do so as much as you can.

That's idiotic and a cop out....

I can understand and sympathize with not wanting to spend the coin to get the skill if there's a lot left for you to do to improve your char.

But that arguement is just lame. Why don't you spend some of your money helping your tank to get more HP so he can more easily tank stuff, and you'll most likely not have to worry about healing so much... or why don't you afford some money to help your DD refine their weapons so they can help kill the mobs and bosses you would be healing them for so they die much quickly... of course if it dies much more quickly, you're less likely to die and you won't spend as much on charms or mana, right?

That's a pretty lousy point.


One thing I do, as well as a lot of my friends... when we're going into a difficult instance and we know that we might die, we hand our dolls to the cleric with lvl 11 rez to hold onto. Cause if we die we don't lose exp, and if they end up dying they don't either. I guess this is pretty unknown practice on other servers...

Celo - Sanctuary

Hi guys! thank for commenting, but seem like most posts are off topic. I have update my first post. Hope that would keep the topic on track. Thank you. Please continues comments.

Arlyssa - Dreamweaver

[PHP][/PHP]So..I've actually read this whole thread and I've come to only one conclusion. Being a cleric is expensive. That's it, and is pretty much all I need to know. ty guys b:cute

Eoria - Harshlands

Arlyssa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]So..I've actually read this whole thread and I've come to only one conclusion. Being a cleric is expensive. That's it, and is pretty much all I need to know. ty guys b:cute

Yes, it is expensive. But now it's not as bad thanks to the token pots starting at 75. Everything else though...well...

As to the subject at hand, IMO, your gear should come before sage/demon res unless you're gifted it or it drops in an fb. 10-20mil is a bit much for people to like demand you have it if your gear is only TT90 green and +3.

But gods, would I love demon res. Then I could get everyone up quicker and get the party back together. :X

Lenore - Harshlands

Lol @ all the statements about it not being worth 20M.

Let's look at the facts here...Everyone has a selfish side to them. There's no point in denying it; most people who aren't at 0.0% would prefer level 11 res over level 10 res, especially at 100+. So the fact of the matter is, if your res is still level 10 in high level instances, you simply won't won't be wanted as much as another cleric with level 11 res. This especially applies if you're a bad cleric (or a laggy cleric) because people know they will die and they know they'll lose EXP. It isn't even about DD pulling aggro anymore, because now bosses in high end instances random aggro and seal, so no matter how smart DDs try to play, they will get hit, and if you are slow on the heal, they'll die. You can make up for that with your res, but do the running boss a few times the normal way (and I mean normal as in without half the squad being 5.0 aps) with level 10 res and you'll find that some people can't be assed to get up anymore. If your gear sucks, by all means, improve that first before you buy the res, but why are you in Nirvana anyways with crappy gear? If you're just gonna be oneshotted, it won't even matter if your own res can help you.

I know a few clerics...some of them aren't that great, but they put in their effort in level 11 res and any average party can get through the nirvana just by having that cleric toss res everywhere. I also know clerics with level 10 res, but because they are very vigilant and good at timing heals, people rarely die unless their gear is just so horrible they can't be saved. I am willing to run with both those types of clerics. But a cleric who is laggy/sucks AND has level 10 res? Well uh, I gotta eat dinner now, sorry, catch ya later.

And as a closing note, my faction has a few "metal mages" as people tend to call them. They're PKing clerics who like to DD and otherwise play offensively as much as they can, and even THEY have level 11 res. Trying to be a metal mage is no excuse.

As for the USES of level 11 res, demon res is so much faster, you can go back to healing the main tank quicker. If half the party is wiped by an AoE, you can get everyone up twice as fast. Sage res I admit is mostly useful in TW. I mean, you don't want to walk all the way up to the front lines to res people do you? Yea.

In short, parties PREFER clerics with level 11 res, most likely for selfish reasons, and unless you plan on running everything by yourself, you gotta make yourself...appealing to parties so you can make more runs/find parties easier, and upping your res is one good way of doing that. Because yea, there is no party without a cleric, but you aren't the only cleric in the world, and you ain't no party by yourself either.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

First off it is a cleric's job to res, and they don't benefit from their own res. That's how the game is and it's not any player's fault that devs made it that way. It sucks you have to bring GAs but also keep in mind other classes have their own costs.

Second it's not "selfish" to want a cleric with level 11 res any more than it is "selfish" to want a DD with high DPS or a tank with high HP. All of those are players who do their job better.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Celo - Sanctuary wrote: »

The main topic is meant to ask the way to improve the cleric's skill "Sage Revive" become more powerful in pve. Revive skill is one of the core skills to get the team back on feet. It is 2nd best skills after Ironheart. The sage Revive has addon 40 meter range; However, 99% of the time cleric stands at standard range to support the team. It is not like demon Revive where a cleric can cast Revive relatively short amount of time and returns to support the tank. Ask for Sage Revive, the moment the cleric starts Reviving a dead member, the tank would yell "nuuuuuuh....!.

reroll demon if you like rez so much. Every culti side has cons and pros

Celo - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thank you for those gave suggestions to provide Sage Revive Skill. So far, I'm getting idea from these people such as:

- Self cast Reviving even after dying. nah..
- Auto resurrect cleric but has time restriction. maybe, but there is scroll and ga so why would devs bother?
- Add another protection skill like Stealth Skill. uh oh?
- Add Special Reviving Skill for Cleric's Genies. doesnt genie loose energy when you die?

Celo - Sanctuary wrote: »

For awhile now, I believe PWI should remove 40 meter addon and replace with "Reduce half damage taken for all party members while this skill casting". This could give a felt equally rival to demon Revive.[/COLOR]

too easy to exploit.

Crazydan - Heavens Tear

Eh if i ever get the extra 20 mill to spend on Rez ill get it i guess but bet ur butts im gonna get my gear set up first and hell sage rez isnt even that good for PvE except fro a few fluke places reali no need for the extra range honestly if i was a demon i wouldve gotten Rez a long time ago cause that skill kicks **** for keeping partys up.


And i always say to ppl that out right call me a fail cleric for not having a lvl 11 rez "grab a Fing rez scroll and GS cause ur **** is gonna die a lot u keep that **** up"

But eh can see both sides of the agrument im very bi polar in my play i can be full support then go Metal mage then next day but for the most part clerics get a raw deal on the rez thingy but nothing is perfect

Hazumu - Dreamweaver

@michael_dark

I have only one thing to say.

Support =/= money.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Personally... i don't give a **** if a cleric's rez is 1 or 11. Back in the days when i care about experience and leveling... my own cleric never level rez above 1 cause i always carry angels on my main. And now... my sin is always stuck at 0%... while my archer never runs with a **** squad... so a leveled rez doesn't really do me any difference.

But then again... even if leveling a rez to 11 does yourself no good... it makes you that much more competitive against others. Its the same reasons given equal standing... a +10 dd will always be perfered over a +5 dd. We all do what we want/can to make ourselves more competitive against others. And for a cleric... level 11 rez will make you much perfered over level 10 rez.

yashino

b:shutup it's a skill, it's your resources, it's your choice
b:shutupb:shutupb:shutup

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

But then again... even if leveling a rez to 11 does yourself no good... it makes you that much more competitive against others. Its the same reasons given equal standing... a +10 dd will always be perfered over a +5 dd. We all do what we want/can to make ourselves more competitive against others. And for a cleric... level 11 rez will make you much perfered over level 10 rez.

Yeah. Just because the cleric doesn't directly benefit from revive doesn't mean it has zero benefit for the cleric.

Veno Lending Hand (gives 1 spark to another player) is actually worse since it has a negative effect on the veno. But if a veno were to tell a squad that they don't use it since it hurts them, they'd probably be booted from the group. It's only when you start thinking of the good of the group overall that you realize the benefit of a spark passed to (for example) a cleric who needs it to start up BB can far outweigh the negative to the veno of losing a spark.

yashino

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah. Just because the cleric doesn't directly benefit from revive doesn't mean it has zero benefit for the cleric.

Veno Lending Hand (gives 1 spark to another player) is actually worse since it has a negative effect on the veno. But if a veno were to tell a squad that they don't use it since it hurts them, they'd probably be booted from the group. It's only when you start thinking of the good of the group overall that you realize the benefit of a spark passed to (for example) a cleric who needs it to start up BB can far outweigh the negative to the veno of losing a spark.

wrong......demon lending hand is good for both you or target.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

yashino wrote: »

wrong......demon lending hand is good for both you or target.

Not at the same time. If used on another player, the veno still loses 1 spark, which is a negative.

yashino

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not at the same time. If used on another player, the veno still loses 1 spark, which is a negative.

get cloud eruption..........................

i swear people in pve servers complain too much

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good topic :]
I won't argue that a level11 rez is nice, it really is yes, but in all honesty it's not 20 mil nice.

Lemme put it this way. I came back to the game 2 months ago at 40 something %. Nirvana was awesome sauce at the time, and I pretty much lived in there for a month or so. On the very first boss, most squads insisted we don't kill the gargoyles in order to save time but rather stand really close so someone can AD the entire squad when the traps go off. It worked, some of the time. Depending on our DD, it usually took 3-5 ADs before the boss would die. I just loved hearing "Trust me Ninny, I got this AD!" BOOM SQUAD WIPE. Ninny gets up and loses 0.3% each time. Or we get to the white/black mob boss, and someone fails to kill a black mob and hits the white mob instead. Boom instant 10k aoe a split second apart. Or we're doing Tyrant and the tank doesn't run from the AOE in time and causes a squad wipe (not as common of a scenario but been known to happen if DDs are super squishy and there's no back up tank). Ninny gets up and loses 0.3% again. A month or so down the line Ninny goes from 40 something % to 8%. 2months later Ninny's at 0%.

None of these deaths were my fault, but I was the one who had to town while the rest of the squad sat there and waited for a rez.

Before someone jumps the gun, I will admit to having my own fails where I failed to run from the AOE fast enough, or failed my turn to AD or was distracted and didn't notice a DD taking aggro fast enough. Mind you, noone's perfect. But heck it's but a fraction of a fraction in comparison to the deaths others caused me.

At that point, I pretty much gave up any hope of ever reaching 101 (I've been 100 for well over a year now ).

Another thing to keep in mind is the cost. On Sanctuary, level11 rez goes for 20 million coins. A guardian angel is roughly 100k. On that note, I would have to rez the same person 200 times to justify spending 20mil so that person doesn't lose anything when they get rezzed by a mere level 10 rez.

So what some of some of you are saying is, we should spend 20 million coins so you don't lose xp when you die. On top of it, we should spend 200k for a rez scroll + GA every time we die to protect ourselves from losing xp and saving you the wait of us getting back to the instance.

I agree, clerics have the option of rez scroll + GA. But guess what, so does everyone else.

Dunno about you, but if I wasted 200k every time I died in Nirvana due to someone elses fault, I wouldn't be making a profit from the runs, I would be in debt by now.

I have all my sage heals, and most of my sage attacks. I simply can not justify spending 20 mil if the person who wants that rez can spend a mere 100k. I mean that's a +7 refine right there.

So in all honesty, when I see an idiot begging faction chat specifically for a cleric that has lvl11 rez to come do XYZ instance, while there's half a dozen clerics with lvl10 rez willing to go, I cringe for not being able to downgrade my rez to level 1, go do the instance with them, let them die on purpose, then rez them and lol in their snout. Even more so if the idiot asking for a lvl11 rez cleric killed countless clerics due to their own failures time and again.

Flame on!

i love you ninny....

Flinderlien - Heavens Tear

Graviora - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't think its a useless skill; mine's at level 11 (<3 demon res.)

The cleric class is to heal and support others. We keep our squad alive, that's what our class is for. On Dreamweaver, (I'm not sure about other servers) clerics always get first or second pick in TT.

The exp loss never bothered me. I always regained it not long after I lost it. I don't know about you guys, but leveling a cleric is probably the easiest class to level; we're always needed in squads.

but us sexy clerics dun count :DD

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah. Just because the cleric doesn't directly benefit from revive doesn't mean it has zero benefit for the cleric.

Veno Lending Hand (gives 1 spark to another player) is actually worse since it has a negative effect on the veno. But if a veno were to tell a squad that they don't use it since it hurts them, they'd probably be booted from the group. It's only when you start thinking of the good of the group overall that you realize the benefit of a spark passed to (for example) a cleric who needs it to start up BB can far outweigh the negative to the veno of losing a spark.

is the negative effect worse than loosing (GA)100k per death? =O

Ashivas - Dreamweaver

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah. Just because the cleric doesn't directly benefit from revive doesn't mean it has zero benefit for the cleric.

Veno Lending Hand (gives 1 spark to another player) is actually worse since it has a negative effect on the veno. But if a veno were to tell a squad that they don't use it since it hurts them, they'd probably be booted from the group. It's only when you start thinking of the good of the group overall that you realize the benefit of a spark passed to (for example) a cleric who needs it to start up BB can far outweigh the negative to the veno of losing a spark.

Last I checked this skill doesn't cost the veno 20 million coins. So get out --->

Fail logic is fail.




Anyways. If I have to carry a res scroll+GA to prevent exp loss. So does everyone else. And if someone makes a mistake and gets me killed, we're both going to town. That's just the way I am. I'm not your slave, just because my class is based on supporting others, doesn't mean i'm going to be your doormat. I won't pay 20 million coins to save other people money, i'm not running a charity organization over here. I have gear I need to buy for level 90, totalling just about 125 million coins, including refine +3 and sharding imac citrines. I don't need to blow 20 mil of that money on a skill that gives me no benefit.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

you know the sad thing is pple would most of the time rather have a DYING cleric with a lv11 res, than a cleric thats upgraded their gear for the 'benefit' of the squad (same as melee upgrading their weapons/gear for the 'benefit' of the squad logic) and survives the 1 hits that has a lv10 ress. Something is very wrong there

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Ninhoe I'm not worth spending 20m over? b:sad

Frankly don't care, both 10/11 nice. But I sometimes ask if cleric got lvl11 Then you'll see me dying a lot more & being lazy on pots.

Lemme put it this way. I came back to the game 2 months ago at 40 something %. Nirvana was awesome sauce at the time, and I pretty much lived in there for a month or so. On the very first boss, most squads insisted we don't kill the gargoyles in order to save time but rather stand really close so someone can AD the entire squad when the traps go off. It worked, some of the time. Depending on our DD, it usually took 3-5 ADs before the boss would die. I just loved hearing "Trust me Ninny, I got this AD!" BOOM SQUAD WIPE. Ninny gets up and loses 0.3% each time. Or we get to the white/black mob boss, and someone fails to kill a black mob and hits the white mob instead. Boom instant 10k aoe a split second apart. Or we're doing Tyrant and the tank doesn't run from the AOE in time and causes a squad wipe (not as common of a scenario but been known to happen if DDs are super squishy and there's no back up tank). Ninny gets up and loses 0.3% again. A month or so down the line Ninny goes from 40 something % to 8%. 2months later Ninny's at 0%.

Of topic, but if you got low DD squad on 1st boss, just kill 1 stone, when circles spawn it will give you enough safe room to run to.

NinnaXXX - Sanctuary

(didnt read all replies) anyways i think lvl11 is nice if you can save money for it but if i could buy it i wouldnt tell plp about it i dont rly wanne hear "rev me pls every 10mins" and in squads they be like "yay suicidal time, no worries cleric will revive me and no exp lose" so they just be more reckless -_-

Quilue - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm Deceptipoo and I don't like lvl 11 ress

You can only refine your gear so much and survive so well, but how will you make a Nirvana run significantly faster by yourself?

I'm not saying you can't keep your squad alive as you are, in part because you're a decent cleric, and in part because the top DDs on the server are very well-geared to begin with. In fact, the fastest Nirvana squads take 6 5.0 DDs and just live on Blood Paint if they're careful about how they play. If you want to be in those squads, well guess what you need to set yourself apart. You know Ast's squad is a bunch of 101s, 102s, so yes, they would prefer that they not lose exp. They can't always make sure YOU don't lose exp on death (unless you nag Ast enough for a GA), but one thing they CAN make sure, is that your run will be FAST.

You're not understanding why Ast keeps suggesting that you get lvl 11 ress so you get more Nirvana invites. It's not that Ast will not take you because you have lvl 10 ress, hell Ast takes me and I don't even have ress, it's that lvl 11 ress will just make you more attractive to Nirvana squads in general. You think because you provide people with 0 exp loss, they need to do the same for you, but when you get into those squads, you will realize that their contributions are very different. Just as you might appreciates 5.0 DDs, they also appreciate lvl 11 resses.

That's all there is to it. Ast isn't selfishly QQing about lvl 10 resses, Ast is just saying this will help you get into more and better squads.