The state of TW by Server since the changes...

Michael_Dark - Lost City · August 2010

Note: This isn't an argument or debate thread whether or not the change is good or bad. If you want to discuss that, please post your thoughts on this stickied thread.

This thread is to report what is actually being observed on the servers. Please try to keep speculation to a minimum.

Please post your observations of TW bidding, attendance and frequency, (as well as posting attitudes of people participating,) of your server since the changes. Try to keep any opinion or theories on why this is happening to the TW discussion page noted above.

Reports will be added and replaced as more posts are submitted
Last edited: 7/27

Lost City

Comment: The state of Lost City is there were several territories that are protected and usually attacked by smaller guilds. Three of the 5 largest factions who usually TW, only two of them attacked. This has to be an all time record low of only 3 wars in one weekend.

Coraline - Lost City wrote: »

This weekend the wars was short and not as much fun. TC's war only lasted about 20 minutes even with us not having a lot on for TW. And I saw spectral vs Essence only lasted maybe less, I'm not sure. It didnt seem like any effort was put into the fighting maybe because we weren't having a 3 hour war with spec idk.

Crick - Lost City wrote: »

Prior to patch not uncommon for a dominant guild to have 3 TW's starting at the same time(which would actually give a smaller guild some chance at winning), this weekend 3 TW's in total!

TC guild prior to the patch had more then 80 ppl online willing to TW, last TW 34 showed for TW. Some thought about not going, but any kind of TW is better then none.

Heaven's Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Everything looked normal from what I saw on heavens tear. Average number of bids, average time for a TW to end based on who is fighting who.

Mystic-Night - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The amount of TW's this weekend stayed about the same as usual..12 or so?
Though the supposed *we're trying to stop fake bidding* quote from GMs..completely failed..as 2 factions with obvious fake names bid on Enrage.

There are certainly lots of people who are completely unmotivated to attend TW now..A 200 person faction on the map only had 15 or so people show up for their DEFENSE.

Rawthorne - Heavens Tear wrote: »

12 tws this weekend on HT. The last 4 weekends went 14, 12, 14, and 14 tws. Unfortunately some of those #'s are slightly skewed cuz of the "fake" bids that occured (on average of 1-2 per weekend). Some lands/guilds that almost always were attacked/should have been (by up and coming guilds) were not. One week after getting on the map a guild chooses not to attack its neighbors (they are a weak tw guild but they normally bid almost every week for the fun). One guild (that is very active in pk w/ some op players) who had sat there w/ one land for weeks and hadn't attacked anyone chose to not even show up to their own defense.

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

This is for Heaven's Tear:

There are fewer bids and TWs in general. For the few TWs that were supposed to happen, the turnout was terrible, and a faction who claims to TW "for fun" did not show at a defense, and rumors were that it was because they wanted to save charms for a 3-way gank later on. Of course, I'm not questioning their motives or decision, but when a smaller TW faction that fights for fun has to no show a defense in order to feel competitive in a gank, what does that say about how the lack of TW pay is affecting the smaller aspiring TW guilds on the map?

Sanctuary

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

15 attacks two weeks ago: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9354382&postcount=4727

13 attacks after knowing the TW changes (this weekend): http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9618932&postcount=4902

Hasn't changed much, as you can see.

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You should include the after battle reports, because it shows the duration of the TWs.

No single TW has lasted longer than 30 minutes since the update. We were seeing 1.5-2 hour wars before.

So my speculation is that yes, attacks from the regular factions will still go on, but the duration of those attacks have been shortened. I'm seeing an overall lack of competition as of late. Wars aren't worth lasting over 30 minutes anymore it seems.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sanctuary only have 2 factions that had enough land to have a substantial income, the rest of the factions really just want a fight, it's not so different for most TW-active factions on Sanct now than before as far as TW compensation is concerned. This is probably why Sanctuary hasn't been affected that much.

MagicChu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm from one of smaller factions that does weekly TWs in Sanctuary vs Nef. I noticed that before the patch, Nef would put up a strong defense and fight for every land they had.

Now after the patch, they would do a no show or give land to any faction they deemed can charm **** them. So during the weekends you will see Nef doing TW, but effectively they are only doing 1-2 major TW per week where the TW lasts longer than 20 minutes. The rest are 4-5 minute steam roll against 10-20ppl tw factions which doesn't cost them much charm. I suspect they can no longer afford to do massive TWs as before now that they no longer have the money to back up the charm use that comes with it.

What we see now isn't a drastic change in number of TWs being declared but we see a huge change in the quality of the TWs. The time TW takes, the number of people showing up to TW, and the number who still play this game has drastically declined since the changes took place.

If you are in Sanctuary, go take a look at the Auction House and look at the Skill Book section. I often find that in a healthy TW/pking server, that section will often be flooded with skill books. Today I see 8-10 books being sold where there used to be pages and pages of them. =/

Harshlands

Nurfed - Harshlands wrote: »

On harshland server, we had just a total of 3 wars this weekend. It was averaging about 8-9 wars before the patch.

This weekend, our war with the 2nd strongest faction on the server lasted only 5 minutes. TW is dead. Theres no incentive anymore to hold land. This patch only made the strongest faction stronger than ever since no one will attack them.

Rhyme - Harshlands wrote: »

On Harshlands, There is about 5 guilds that actively go to TW every week.

This week there was 1.

That was our guild attacking another, but they didn't even show up

P.S. 2 other random No name guilds bid to but they are pointless

Dreamweaver

Azzazin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On Dreamweaver, for the past while, really long TWs between two 'top dog' factions if you will, were occurring. The two factions were clearly very equal in power. Since very recently.... ok yeah, since the TW changes, this changed rather drastically; top faction has won several TWs against the other big faction in unprecedented times of ~25-35 minutes. Coincidence? Maybe.

Also on the whole, there are ... less factions TWing, but not entirely stopped, of course. A lot of the small factions that always placed a bid against the top faction before the patch, no longer do so.

Magiere - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I wouldn't say TW is a dying scene on DW, we had the same amount of total TW's, the same amount of attacks and defenses as always.
The only difference is that less ppl are going to TW's, but that might as well be due to many ppl quitting the game.

Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Speaking as a Marshal for the second largest faction on Dreamweaver, Equinox...

We used to be able to hold our own against the installed power. Now, we cannot muster 80 to attend TW. Despite our best efforts, engaging in TW is a losing game.

Ashivas - Dreamweaver wrote: »

On DW server, this hasn't helped any new factions at all. In fact, it's made it worse. We've gone from having the mammoth dominant faction owning all but 8 territories, to owning all but 5 now. They've won a territory off our #2 fac every week so far. Yea... it's doing wonders for the smaller factions.

Raging Tide

Steeling - Raging Tide wrote: »

On Raging Tide, the biggest faction seems to have been having a declining interest in TW. Before the update, it was total warfare between the two top dogs, but in yesterday's TW, they let the opposition win within minutes. It seems to them that the TWs aren't worth it to fund with such a small reward.

Smaller factions seem to be doing alright. Since the change, most have been engaging in wars and aren't complaining too much. At least that's what I've seen.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Raging Tide went from 3 hour wars to 20 minute wars.

Legend - Raging Tide wrote: »

To sum tw up on rt "Tw is deadzorz"
All were under 20mins =/

Archosaur

vristion wrote: »

Arch bout the same. Did see the bigger faction lost alot of players to create a new faction. So maybe some changes will happen in later dates.

Siiobhan - Archosaur wrote: »

There were significantly less wars and the wars were a laugh. We attacked BRFORCE who usually fights valiantly and they didn't even build all the towers. My guess is 150 mirages wasn't worth spending twice that to defend the land properly. Several other guild clearly simply let the land go that they have been defending mightily for several weeks.

Our own attendance was down DRAMATICALLY. Three weeks ago we half 120 show for TW, we had 60 this week. We have had at least 15-20 members quit the game entirely, and another ten or so leave for a non-TW guild because they can't afford to TW anymore.

I'm hoping that an unbiased selection of posts may be of interest to the GMs as well as players.

I will update the quoted comments as more descriptive observations of past and current trends are submitted. All the servers are unique, and I just want to compile notable statements sorted by server so we can get a better look at how these changes are affecting TW on a server by server basis.

Tinaaaaaa - Lost City · August 2010

I for one, will not TW again..

b:bye hai mikey

* Yes I was surprised at how many TWS went on this weekend lol... 3 ahah I remember at one time it was 10+ a week, now... 2 or 3? for mirage.. lol

Michael_Dark - Lost City · August 2010

Hi Tina b:cute

Yeah, it was pretty sad this weekend. Only two guilds that were really expected to TW did, and the other was pretty much a rivalry that pre-existed. No new TWs from up and comers. b:surrender

Magiere - Dreamweaver · August 2010

I wouldn't say TW is a dying scene on DW, we had the same amount of total TW's, the same amount of attacks and defenses as always.
The only difference is that less ppl are going to TW's, but that might as well be due to many ppl quitting the game.

We just had a 3h blast TW yesterday, as a non territory owning fac, money isn't everything that matters...we always TW'd for the fun of it and the prestige to own a land.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · August 2010

Magiere - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I wouldn't say TW is a dying scene on DW, we had the same amount of total TW's, the same amount of attacks and defenses as always.

Thanks for the report. ^^

Graviora - Dreamweaver · August 2010

-edited out-

vristion · August 2010

Arch bout the same. Did see the bigger faction lost alot of players to create a new faction. So maybe some changes will happen in later dates.

Steeling - Raging Tide · August 2010

On Raging Tide, the biggest faction seems to have been having a declining interest in TW. Before the update, it was total warfare between the two top dogs, but in yesterday's TW, they let the opposition win within minutes. It seems to them that the TWs aren't worth it to fund with such a small reward.

Smaller factions seem to be doing alright. Since the change, most have been engaging in wars and aren't complaining too much. At least that's what I've seen.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary · August 2010

I most definitely saw fewer attacks on Sanctuary here this past weekend.
Dying though? Most definitely not.

Oneji - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Let me put it this way.Enrage is now officially owning the mapb:laugh. Since of course it was risky before bidding on Enrage, now it is even more risky to bid. So yah I guess you could say TW is slowly dying over here as well.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · August 2010

15 attacks two weeks ago: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9354382&postcount=4727

13 attacks after knowing the TW changes (this weekend): http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9618932&postcount=4902

Hasn't changed much, as you can see.

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Dreamweaver is of course dying as far as TW is concerned. Even if we did actually win the bid (which now we have no chance of ever again because of this stupid system) I doubt more than 40 people might show up for our faction. Calamity doesn't even seem to be as active.

It's just pointless to have them now - what, our reward is a handful of mirages now? BS. There's not even any point in having the game.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · August 2010

Please keep any opinons about the actual changes to the stickied thread. I'd mostly like analysis or before/after reports of activity. Whether or not you agree or disagree with these changes, please try to keep this thread clean of such opinions or it will just be merged with the other thread.

drjiggle · August 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hasn't changed much, as you can see.

That is interesting, though one thing I'll note (trying to keep this as factual as possible) is that while the supposed goal of these changes was to make TW accessible for new, smaller factions, as far as I can tell none of your 13 attacks involve factions that are new to TW. There are two -- RE\/ENGE and Charisma -- who did not attack two weeks ago, but according to your text, that was an anomaly for them.

So the good news is that it hasn't changed much. The bad news is that it hasn't changed much.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · August 2010

drjiggle wrote: »

That is interesting, though one thing I'll note (trying to keep this as factual as possible) is that while the supposed goal of these changes was to make TW accessible for new, smaller factions, as far as I can tell none of your 13 attacks involve factions that are new to TW. There are two -- RE\/ENGE and Charisma -- who did not attack two weeks ago, but according to your text, that was an anomaly for them.

So the good news is that it hasn't changed much. The bad news is that it hasn't changed much.

On Sanct, most of the factions that have high levels already TW. I know only a handful of 'big' ones that don't. The factions that don't TW have no intentions to do that either.

We (RE\/ENGE) got outbid two weeks ago, not sure about Charisma.

Rhyme - Harshlands · August 2010

On Harshlands, There is about 5 guilds that actively go to TW every week.

This week there was 1.

That was our guild attacking another, but they didn't even show up

P.S. 2 other random No name guilds bid to but they are pointless

volst · August 2010

A perfect time to wipe the map clean?

Azzazin - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Not sure if this has anything to do with the TW changes, but this is what I have noted.

On Dreamweaver, for the past while, really long TWs between two 'top dog' factions if you will, were occurring. The two factions were clearly very equal in power. Since very recently.... ok yeah, since the TW changes, this changed rather drastically; top faction has won several TWs against the other big faction in unprecedented times of ~25-35 minutes. Coincidence? Maybe.

Also on the whole, there are ... less factions TWing, but not entirely stopped, of course. A lot of the small factions that always placed a bid against the top faction before the patch, no longer do so.

Azzazin

JiEunxD - Archosaur · August 2010

In Archosaur, it has been decided that the original 3 guilds that dominated the map (Narla, Impulse, and Fatalis) will now be holding a combined treasury. Much chaos occurred within the guilds and now some other random guilds are attacking the map, not too much though.

Traz - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dreamweaver is of course dying as far as TW is concerned. Even if we did actually win the bid (which now we have no chance of ever again because of this stupid system) I doubt more than 40 people might show up for our faction. Calamity doesn't even seem to be as active.

It's just pointless to have them now - what, our reward is a handful of mirages now? BS. There's not even any point in having the game.

Pardon? We are just as active as we were and NO ONE left because of TW pay change. The second strongest faction though, I'm not sure. The wars haven't lasted longer then 30 minuets so I dunno what's going on. Before the change our wars ALWAYS lasted 2 hours or more.

kenlee · August 2010

dead dead dead. nurfed said 3 wars but one was ours that lasted 5min, one was fake bid and dunno about last one

TheDan - Sanctuary · August 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

15 attacks two weeks ago: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9354382&postcount=4727

13 attacks after knowing the TW changes (this weekend): http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9618932&postcount=4902

Hasn't changed much, as you can see.

You should include the after battle reports, because it shows the duration of the TWs.

No single TW has lasted longer than 30 minutes since the update. We were seeing 1.5-2 hour wars before.

So my speculation is that yes, attacks from the regular factions will still go on, but the duration of those attacks have been shortened. I'm seeing an overall lack of competition as of late. Wars aren't worth lasting over 30 minutes anymore it seems.

Illyana - Dreamweaver · August 2010

Speaking as a Marshal for the second largest faction on Dreamweaver, Equinox...

We used to be able to hold our own against the installed power. Now, we cannot muster 80 to attend TW. Despite our best efforts, engaging in TW is a losing game. Charm cost, atk and defense charm cost... it doesn't cut it.

Slowly but surely, the coin lifeblood is being sucked out of the servers, so those who cannot pay with $$ cannot TW.

I suspect the trend to continue; we will lose all of our lands and here is the funny thing...no one cares.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · August 2010

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

You should include the after battle reports, because it shows the duration of the TWs.

No single TW has lasted longer than 30 minutes since the update. We were seeing 1.5-2 hour wars before.

So my speculation is that yes, attacks from the regular factions will still go on, but the duration of those attacks have been shortened. I'm seeing an overall lack of competition as of late. Wars aren't worth lasting over 30 minutes anymore it seems.

Yeah after battle reports would have been better but there isn't one for this week yet.

I think we have to wait a couple of weeks to see how much the TW times shorten. Currently it's like "QQ NO TW PAY QQ IMMA RAGEQUIT THE GAME QQ!!!1!"

Btw Dan I think we should have more RE\/ENGE vs. Regi PK battles. Those are fun. Especially if we roll you guys. b:chuckle

Coraline - Lost City · August 2010

This weekend the wars was short and not as much fun. TC's war only lasted about 20 minutes even with us not having a lot on for TW. And I saw spectral vs Essence only lasted maybe less, I'm not sure. It didnt seem like any effort was put into the fighting maybe because we weren't having a 3 hour war with spec idk.

SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Also the claim that this will keep big factions from owning all the land.

Our faction is #1 on HT, this really hasn't hurt the faction one bit aside from pissing off ppl.

Enrage - HT's #1 Faction: 99.9% with a full head of steam.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · August 2010

Raging Tide went from 3 hour wars to 20 minute wars.

drjiggle · August 2010

Coraline - Lost City wrote: »

This weekend the wars was short and not as much fun. TC's war only lasted about 20 minutes even with us not having a lot on for TW. And I saw spectral vs Essence only lasted maybe less, I'm not sure. It didnt seem like any effort was put into the fighting maybe because we weren't having a 3 hour war with spec idk.

Isn't that longer than most of your previous wars with ThaClicK? I was kind of surprised it wasn't over sooner, since I know a lot of their people have left. I suppose in some of those previous fights they were double attacked and/or didn't bother to defend.

I'm pretty sure Essence's war lasted approximately 11 minutes give or take. That's obviously a huge change from the 3 hour wars, but that trend had begun before the patch, so it's hard to say what did or didn't cause it. I suspect (opinion alert) that the patch perhaps accelerated Spectral's decline but didn't cause it.

YaKuZa's war lasted 6 minutes, but that also isn't really a change for this matchup. The rumors are that Tribute has about 60 members total, half of which are below level 40 and/or alts. To be honest, I'm not really sure why they attacked us.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · August 2010

Everything looked normal from what I saw on heavens tear. Average number of bids, average time for a TW to end based on who is fighting who.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · August 2010

drjiggle wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Essence's war lasted approximately 11 minutes give or take. That's obviously a huge change from the 3 hour wars, but that trend had begun before the patch, so it's hard to say what did or didn't cause it. I suspect (opinion alert) that the patch perhaps accelerated Spectral's decline but didn't cause it.

Two weekends ago, our wars with Spectral had been declining, but they still fought hard. The week of the Thursday update, they posted the changes before bidding had closed. Spectral and Essence almost always placed bids in the final hours. Athran was online and in-place to bid as normal, and we were talking about this in vent as bidding closed. They didn't bid then, they didn't bid last weekend either. Apparently they're 'rebuilding'. I can't guess what their leadership was talking about that day, but it's apparent something did change. 12 minute wars aren't fun for either side. I hope they regain their momentum.

Coraline - Lost City · August 2010

drjiggle wrote: »

Isn't that longer than most of your previous wars with ThaClicK? I was kind of surprised it wasn't over sooner, since I know a lot of their people have left. I suppose in some of those previous fights they were double attacked and/or didn't bother to defend.

It did seem a little bit longer, but we had low turnout for war. I didn't see how many were online during tw, but formation that was posted was smaller than it has been for the past few weeks.

The state of TW by Server since the changes...

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