GOAL: 60mil, QUESTION: how???? Advise from rich ppl wanted :-3

Airyll - Dreamweaver · July 2010

kenlee wrote: »

lol sure, i read that you turned 1mil in 10m then 50m in like a night and a week? no need to read more than that.

And that's the proof that you didn't read.

Goodbye now. b:bye

Yulk - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nope, actually, I don't support this game through paying real money any more. Used to put money on the game, and I stopped when they decided they need to bring out sunshine packs again.

And you know what else? That coming from a level 45 BM who thinks archers do more damage spamming skills then through auto-attack and thinks Sins are OP just because he played one for a week means what you say has no credibility anyway.

Back to your own little sandbox, Yulk, and go be jealous from over there.

Don't support this game from real money "anymore" yeah ok b:chuckle

Venoes are OP, then again all classes are b:surrender

Airyll - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Don't support this game from real money "anymore" yeah ok b:chuckle

Venoes are OP, then again all classes are b:surrender

Did you read where I said that nothing you say has credibility?

Every thread you've ever made has resulted in you being verbally bitchslapped because you have no idea what you're talking about, but you like to pretend you are.

Carry on being jealous that we can all level higher then you, all know more than you and all have more money then you because you're a lazy assed **** who will play an Assassin for a week and then cry "OP" and who will try to tell new players that level 29 skills that are a waste of chi in the long run are actually useful. Really.

You do know you do yourself no favours, right?

Yulk - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

mumbo jumbo

what is this? I dont even...

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Sorry, Yulk = fail troll.

*takes the little fail troll over to his tiny bridge*

Yulk - Heavens Tear · July 2010

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sorry, Yulk = fail troll.

*takes the little fail troll over to his tiny bridge*

*pimp slaps and punches* don't touch b:scorn

Airyll - Dreamweaver · July 2010

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sorry, Yulk = fail troll.

*takes the little fail troll over to his tiny bridge*

There's trolling, there's stupidity, there's stupid trolling

And then there is Yulk.

This moron is in a class all of his own. And I don't mean that in a good way.

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Where's frankie when you need him b:sweat

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear · July 2010

*wonders how konari hasn't found this thread yet* >.>......

Airyll: While that may be true, I rank him only slightly....only slightly below the normal fail troll.

kenlee · July 2010

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

...

Vague advice is the best advice you can give really. If I were to tell people what I sold to make xx million daily I would lose massive amounts of potential profit because people would saturate the market.

yea thats what i said too but instead of giving a vague (and detailed lol) advise better to not give one at all

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

I'm not sure how you think people who are rich only cash shop.. say you worked hard and made roughly 150mil after playing some markets and searching cat shops. If you buy gold at 390k you would be able to get 400 packs. If you sold those packs for 430k each you would make over 30 million in profit. This is only 1 common example, factor in multiple ways of increasing your investment by ~20-30% and you make bank.

thats what i said too, with a good amount of gold/coins you can make decent profit. i dont have 150mil cash, i had to get nix/herc/some event stuff and so on but counting the amount of coins i've probably spent.. its easy over 200mil. with 1mil you dont turn in 10mil over night or 50mil over a week. thats the thing ive read in this thread and didnt agree with it

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And that's the proof that you didn't read.

Goodbye now. b:bye

on first page its you who said you maid 200mil in a month
later you said 50mil a week (doh 4 weeks x 50mil)
no need to read more, bye

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear · July 2010

I don't get why so many people find it bad to give advice on a few items that people can sell to make money

Personally, if somebody asked me what all I sell i'd list it out for them and say "go ahead and copy anything you want off this list, Ain't like I use it often

"

Airyll - Dreamweaver · July 2010

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't get why so many people find it bad to give advice on a few items that people can sell to make money

Personally, if somebody asked me what all I sell i'd list it out for them and say "go ahead and copy anything you want off this list, Ain't like I use it often "

What I don't get is this:

The people who say "You can't do this!" and then say "Stop giving advice!" when you sit down and explain how, yes, you did do that.

It's really beyond stupid and I think at this point, I won't bother giving out advice to the people who come around and ask how you make money. You're damned if you do explain it, you're damned if you give advice, and you are damned if you say nothing at all. It's beyond ridiculous that when you tell people how you do something, they say you explain too much, when you give advice you're called a liar and when you don't tell anybody at all they complain that you say nothing.

Hypocrites much?

kenlee · July 2010

the difference is that you didnt give then any real advise, just told them that you got that amount of money by selling/buying gold.
...and no i dont want your advise, i can think for myself how to make money like i always did. just saying for the safe of the other ppl here

MagicHamsta - Lost City · July 2010

Airyll, just ignore them.
The average human be odd like that.
b:surrender

They just want to know which button to press to make monies appear in front of them.
>.<'

Airyll - Dreamweaver · July 2010

kenlee wrote: »

the difference is that you didnt give then any real advise, just told them that you got that amount of money by selling/buying gold.
...and no i dont want your advise, i can think for myself how to make money like i always did. just saying for the safe of the other ppl here

This is the proof that you never read anything I posted.

Really, troll elsewhere because at this point, it's what your doing. I have detailed a couple of times, by this point, to the people who asked and not to you I will add, that I did research before I began to buy and sell gold, working out when best to buy, when best to sell and how best to at least break even between these two times if not make a little extra profit. And that's just one of the things I mentioned.

If you can't be bothered to read what people have posted, don't come onto a forum and dictate to them what they have or have not done, because you don't know any better.

You didn't ask for advice. Other people did. I gave these people the advice they asked for and detailed what I did that made me my money. Then you come along and tell me I apparently never gave advice and only said X, Y and Z.

Right now you're looking like a huge idiot because you couldn't be bothered to read what I've posted in this thread and came along and dictated to me what I had written. Seriously, troll harder.

-edit-

Indeed, I've come to realise that.

However, I'm finding it so ironic that people will dictate to somebody what they've apparently posted and damn them regardless of what happens. It's terribly, terribly sad. XD

MagicHamsta - Lost City · July 2010

O.o'''
Fear mah ninja answer Airyll!
xD

Airyll - Dreamweaver · July 2010

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

O.o'''
Fear mah ninja answer Airyll!
xD

I edited as fast as I could! D8

Oh great little furball, I shall try harder next time to compete with thy ninja skills.

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Hm......Time for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3G5IXn0K7A

Decus - Dreamweaver · July 2010

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

not possible. not unless you use RL money

Forgive me but you are clearly an idiot and have not read anything written in this post at all if you honestly believe that statement. However, I am a practical person. Continue to feed into the superstitions that cause people to come and purchase the goods in my catshop. b:pleased

MagicHamsta - Lost City · July 2010

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Forgive me but you are clearly an idiot and have not read anything written in this post at all if you honestly believe that statement. However, I am a practical person. Continue to feed into the superstitions that cause people to come and purchase the goods in my catshop. b:pleased

Yesh, yesh.
Decus' income be directly proportional to the customer's ignorance.
b:avoid

Aelric - Lost City · July 2010

Just because im not as devoted as pretty much everyone here who has the great success stories, I don't expect to make much money. However, I will keep gold trading and learning the market until that starts rolling in some good money, and see what happens from there. Some really good advice has been given even if you believe it to be vague at best. If you read it and think about it, it does make sense.

So thanks every! b:victory

Solandri - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

There is no way you can convert gold to coin in seconds without losing out on a huge % of your investment.

Um, you do know you can use the auctioneer to immediately buy gold other people have listed for sale, right? Listing a coin bid and waiting for someone to sell you the gold is just one of the options you have. Since the spread between bid and offer prices is usually less than 5%, that's all you can lose (or rather, not make). Anyway, every transaction is a trade-off. If you need the coin to purchase something else right now, then 5% may not be a bad price to pay.

For starters you would need to cancel your current sale, losing the fee. Put up another lower sale price incurring more fees and if you wanted to liquidate in seconds, your sale price would have to be extremely low which probably means you end up selling for less than what you bought it for.

Why is all your gold listed for sale? I thought you were holding it for a few days until prices were more to your liking? If you haven't listed it all for sale, it's available immediately to liquidate. If you have listed it for sale, it's just an extra 2% you'll be losing. (2% you may have lost anyway seeing as your gold hasn't sold yet.)

Selling for less than you bought is also a trade-off. If you're going to sell the gold for 10% less than you bought it, but with that coin you're going to make 20%, then it's a good decision. With gold you have the option to do that within seconds. With cat shop merchandise, you don't. Your liquidity is at the mercy of the buying public. You'll be stuck unable to liquidate and thus will miss that good deal you saw. Meanwhile the person who sold gold at a 10% loss but picked up the good deal for a 20% gain will make a net 10%.

Astrohawke - Lost City · July 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Um, you do know you can use the auctioneer to immediately buy gold other people have listed for sale, right? Listing a coin bid and waiting for someone to sell you the gold is just one of the options you have. Since the spread between bid and offer prices is usually less than 5%, that's all you can lose (or rather, not make). Anyway, every transaction is a trade-off. If you need the coin to purchase something else right now, then 5% may not be a bad price to pay.

Why is all your gold listed for sale? I thought you were holding it for a few days until prices were more to your liking? If you haven't listed it all for sale, it's available immediately to liquidate. If you have listed it for sale, it's just an extra 2% you'll be losing. (2% you may have lost anyway seeing as your gold hasn't sold yet.)

Selling for less than you bought is also a trade-off. If you're going to sell the gold for 10% less than you bought it, but with that coin you're going to make 20%, then it's a good decision. With gold you have the option to do that within seconds. With cat shop merchandise, you don't. Your liquidity is at the mercy of the buying public. You'll be stuck unable to liquidate and thus will miss that good deal you saw. Meanwhile the person who sold gold at a 10% loss but picked up the good deal for a 20% gain will make a net 10%.

No offence but you're just posting scenarios that benefit your argument.

I know you can sell your gold immediately but it means you have sold for less than what you bought it for plus the fees.

And why is all my gold listed for sale? Maybe it's one of the days when gold prices it high. Maybe I don't just wait until 1 day to sell everything and sell batches at different prices throughout the week. Who knows. 'Just an extra 2% fee" is a lot when your profits are so crappy to begin with.

And yes it's a tradeoff if you can give up 10% loss to make 20% profit but what if it's not 20% profit. What if it's 5% profit? or 10? The point is, if they didn't have the money in gold, the profit can be made without loss. And there is ALWAYS another market. There has never been a day when I haven't found something cheap in the AH or a catshop. These markets also make way better % profits.

Solandri - Heavens Tear · July 2010

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

No offence but you're just posting scenarios that benefit your argument.

I disagree. You're the one picking specific scenarios where having gold is worse than having merchandise. I am speaking overall, in general. In most cases, being invested in gold instead of merchandise offers the general advantage of greater liquidity.

Edit: I see where you're missing my argument, and I apologize for not being more clear. I'm considering the entire range of scenarios which can happen. Say two people have 10 mil coin. One person puts 9 mil in gold, the other puts 9 mil in merchandise for his cat shop. What happens when they see a well-priced item for sale on a cat shop for 5 mil?

The person invested in merchandise can do nothing. He only has 1 mil and no liquidity. He cannot bring his funds up to 5 mil quickly, so in all likelihood he will miss out on the opportunity. (Yes he could ask friends for loans, but so could the person invested in gold. So you can ignore that possibility since the outcome for both persons is the same.)

The person invested in gold has the option to quickly cash out 4 mil worth of gold, and buy the 5 mil item. If the loss he takes selling the gold exceeds the amount he could gain by buying the item, then it will be a net loss so he will choose pass on the deal. The outcome in this case is the same as the person invested in merchandise - both miss out on the deal.

But if the loss he takes selling the gold is less than what he could gain by buying the item, then it will be a net gain and he will conduct the transaction. The outcome in this case is that the person invested in gold makes extra money while the person invested in merchandise misses out.

Worst case, the person invested in gold has the same outcome as the person invested in merchandise. Best case, the person invested in gold is better off than the person invested in merchandise. That's what I mean about gold offering the advantage of greater liquidity.

And why is all my gold listed for sale? Maybe it's one of the days when gold prices it high. Maybe I don't just wait until 1 day to sell everything and sell batches at different prices throughout the week. Who knows. 'Just an extra 2% fee" is a lot when your profits are so crappy to begin with.

Again, you're coming up with a specific scenario. In general, when people get gold, it sits in their account. Even when they place it for sale, they rarely place all of it for sale at once. Most people dabbling in gold sales will have some, if not most, of their gold sitting in their account, rather than all listed for sale at once. (The smart merchant will always keep a healthy amount of money in coin, gold, and merchandise just to cover all bases. Diversification is as important here as in RL.)

And yes it's a tradeoff if you can give up 10% loss to make 20% profit but what if it's not 20% profit. What if it's 5% profit? or 10? The point is, if they didn't have the money in gold, the profit can be made without loss.

We're not comparing having gold vs. having coin. We're comparing having your money tied up in gold vs. having it tied up in merchandise. Please don't change the scenario.

And there is ALWAYS another market. There has never been a day when I haven't found something cheap in the AH or a catshop. These markets also make way better % profits.

I never said gold was a better way to make money than merchandise. I completely agree with you, cat shopping stuff is a better way to make money. Read my posts - I caution people about how risky it is to play the gold market, and how it's difficult to scale it up to large amounts.

I was merely pointing out that dabbling with gold sales does offer the advantage of greater liquidity.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · July 2010

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Merchant Objects:

TT
FC
Niravana
Lunar
SoF/PF (Buy from catshop and resell, can usually make a pretty good profit)
Gold
profession mats like herbs, ulti orb mats
Hamsters
Packs (directly or indirectly through the items from packs.)
aerogears
mounts
demon/sage books
cs shards
things from tokens : wines, teles, do all cards, mp/hp food, flawless shards, legendary molds(turn tokens into chips and chips into molds and molds into the actual gear)
buy 2 best luck at slightly lower than 10mil and make 10mil notes
dragon orbs
hyper stones
oracle 2s
packs(anni, sunshine, tiger)
perfect stones

That's all I currently know of.

But personally......I just do quests and grind on higher lvl mobs for DQ drops (for some reaosn higher lvl mobs drop DQ more often then my lvl ), sell basically anything and everything I get.
Only time I don't NPC everything, is when I feel like setting a Catshop up over night to sell my stuff.

b:avoid :O

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary · July 2010

Only rich people are CASH-SHOPPERS~

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · July 2010

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »

Only rich people are CASH-SHOPPERS~

Normal pple can be too. They just have to max their CC, sell their house, and their car.

or they can be smart and give up 1 outdoor meal and spend 10-20$ a month. Possibly cheaper than goin to movies since technically both are a form of entertainment and satisfaction.

kenlee · July 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This is the proof that you never read anything I posted.

Really, troll elsewhere because at this point, it's what your doing. I have detailed a couple of times, by this point, to the people who asked and not to you I will add, that I did research before I began to buy and sell gold, working out when best to buy, when best to sell and how best to at least break even between these two times if not make a little extra profit. And that's just one of the things I mentioned.

If you can't be bothered to read what people have posted, don't come onto a forum and dictate to them what they have or have not done, because you don't know any better.

You didn't ask for advice. Other people did. I gave these people the advice they asked for and detailed what I did that made me my money. Then you come along and tell me I apparently never gave advice and only said X, Y and Z.

Right now you're looking like a huge idiot because you couldn't be bothered to read what I've posted in this thread and came along and dictated to me what I had written. Seriously, troll harder.

-edit-

Indeed, I've come to realise that.

However, I'm finding it so ironic that people will dictate to somebody what they've apparently posted and damn them regardless of what happens. It's terribly, terribly sad. XD

more wall of text, not gonna read except the bold part. ppl who asked are still asking so i guees you didnt give any real advice. i bet the rest its you pissed off and qqing about how you turned 1mil in 10mil then 50mil in a week just by doing gold trading.

hamsta, better read again. i never asked for his advice but he did get pissed off over something that he said. haha

Astrohawke - Lost City · July 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Again, you're coming up with a specific scenario. In general, when people get gold, it sits in their account. Even when they place it for sale, they rarely place all of it for sale at once. Most people dabbling in gold sales will have some, if not most, of their gold sitting in their account, rather than all listed for sale at once. (The smart merchant will always keep a healthy amount of money in coin, gold, and merchandise just to cover all bases. Diversification is as important here as in RL.)

You don't know what people do in general. You only know what you do. Or you can claim you know 500 other merchants who do what you do which means nothing unless they come and say it themselves.

If people just have gold sitting there and not selling, then they're not making profit. The best way to make profit is to have fast turnovers. Sell fast and buy more immediately. That's why if you can camp the NPC 24/7, you would make more money doing this than someone who checks it 10-15min a day. If you're one of those people who stacks up on gold and then sells them all at once when prices are high, then you've still got all of it on sale at some point so your point is moot.

If people do what you do and have the bulk of their gold NOT on sale for liquidity sake, not selling = no profit.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Edit: I see where you're missing my argument, and I apologize for not being more clear. I'm considering the entire range of scenarios which can happen. Say two people have 10 mil coin. One person puts 9 mil in gold, the other puts 9 mil in merchandise for his cat shop. What happens when they see a well-priced item for sale on a cat shop for 5 mil?

The person invested in merchandise can do nothing. He only has 1 mil and no liquidity. He cannot bring his funds up to 5 mil quickly, so in all likelihood he will miss out on the opportunity. (Yes he could ask friends for loans, but so could the person invested in gold. So you can ignore that possibility since the outcome for both persons is the same.)

No the thing is, the person with merchandise is already invested in merchandise. He doesn't need to pull out of his current market to go into this new market because he is already making good profit. The gold trader needs to liquidate to go into the new market because he now has the opportunity to go from a market with bad profit margins to one with better margins, thus incurring fees/losses along the way.

The person with merchandise's only problem is that he didn't have enough capital to start with and that's not really something he can control.

Think of it this way, let's say profit margins for merchandise is 25%. For every 1m invested, you make 250k. Profit margins for gold trading is 5%. For every 1m you make 50k. This is not unrealistic. So using your example, the item merchant would have made 2.25m on his 9m investment while the gold merchant would have made 450k. Suddenly this great deal comes along, a 5m item with potential for 35% profit. You would make 1.75m from this deal. The gold merchant pulls 4m out to make the buy and gets the profit. He sells the remaining 5m in gold and has 2m profit minus the fees. The item merchant is happy to continue selling whatever he was selling and get his 2.25m.

And that's only in the scenario where the item merchant doesn't have enough capital. If he did, he would just buy that item anyway. While, according to you, gold merchants would have most of their capital invested in gold so they would end up incurring fees no matter what.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I never said gold was a better way to make money than merchandise. I completely agree with you, cat shopping stuff is a better way to make money. Read my posts - I caution people about how risky it is to play the gold market, and how it's difficult to scale it up to large amounts.

I was merely pointing out that dabbling with gold sales does offer the advantage of greater liquidity.

If you're saying gold trading sucks for profit and I'm saying gold trading sucks for profit, then why are we writing walls of text arguing about it? I never said gold trading doesn't have good liquidity. Just not good profits to be worth it.

Airyll - Dreamweaver · July 2010

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Forgive me but you are clearly an idiot and have not read anything written in this post at all if you honestly believe that statement. However, I am a practical person. Continue to feed into the superstitions that cause people to come and purchase the goods in my catshop. b:pleased

Decus, my dear, we have a lot of idiots in this thread. They're all wearing blinkers and they're all refusing to read posts because then they'd have to accept that they're wrong and QQ, truth hurts.

Let's just sit and laugh at them for their narrow minded ways and the fact they will ignore posts so that they don't have to accept they were wrong and just made the biggest fool of themselves. They're the only people looking stupid.

BTW, hai. =D

GOAL: 60mil, QUESTION: how???? Advise from rich ppl wanted :-3

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