GOAL: 60mil, QUESTION: how???? Advise from rich ppl wanted :-3

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

I don't understand why people say you can't get 10m+ in one night. I once made 360k or so every ten minutes and I wasn't even trying. That was a sale though. Eventually I got from 1.6m to 13m in three days. I have to thank Warren for that, it wasn't my idea.

Astrohawke - Lost City

Gold trading sucks for making money. Anyone who claims they turned 1m into 50m by doing this 10-15 min a day is either lying, actually spends every second of the day constantly checking gold prices or spent a year doing this. With 1m you can buy 2 maybe 3 gold and make 20-50k profit on each gold. Then you minus the 2% fee from both SELLING and BUYING and your profit is like 10k per gold lol. That is fail unless you do this 24 hours a day or started with 100m.

As for checking catshops for good deals, from what I've seen on LC anyway, most of the stuff in west arch is either useless or overpriced. Occasionally you will find a good deal but it's not going to be any reliable way to make money especially if you're only checking them once a day.

If you don't have much starting funds, one of the ways to make some money is reselling TT mats. Everyone needs TT mats so they're in demand and sell well. What you do is check the AH daily, get a feel of which mats are in demand (i.e. mats the AH has very few on sale) and how much they cost. Then buy up all the mats and resell them for 50k higher.

There are other things to merchant but I won't give away all my secrets.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Gold trading sucks for making money. Anyone who claims they turned 1m into 50m by doing this 10-15 min a day is either lying, actually spends every second of the day constantly checking gold prices or spent a year doing this. With 1m you can buy 2 maybe 3 gold and make 20-50k profit on each gold. Then you minus the 5% fee from both SELLING and BUYING and your profit is like 10k per gold lol. That is fail unless you do this 24 hours a day or started with 100m.

Or you just don't do it properly.

I quite easily hit the 10 million mark after starting with one million coins via gold trading in what was probably only a couple of weeks at most.

There's a reason I said earlier "write down prices" and "do research" and "see where the weekly fluctuations in price are" and "see how a sale may affect your sales rate" and the like.

If you do gold trading properly and have done the research, 10 million in slightly under two weeks is not unreasonable from gold trading at all. I cannot be on my computer 24/7, at most I have three hours to sit and actually play this game and check gold prices if I so want to, and at least, I have fifteen minutes.

Pure_Black - Harshlands

merchanting is easy once you know how to do it. The specific tricks in it are not revealed by us who merchant.

i make 90 mil each month pretty easy, i'm more of a bulk seller then making more coin on 1 item.

for example i was saving up for my rank 6 for my wiz, i had a total of 1K tokens to start off with. 3 weeks later i had 11K tokens to use for my own rep.

I started out with farming hell/heaven herbs, and selling them only when TW was near, my price was 50% higher then others but they were sold out before i put up my shop. his way i forced the people who didn't buy their **** yet, to buy mine and thus making my alot of profit. After that i've been in 15 different markets, from subs, p.stones, tokens, packs and what not. You have to keep moving your market otherwise you'll always end up being the one buying lower, and selling higher then the competition.

The most important thing,
either find a market which isn't flooded and make huge revenue per item, but sell slow
Or find a market and make a tiny amount of revenue per item but with a huge amount.

One advice for all those "you are a liar"
if you don't have the skills, or not willing to learn ( like OP ) then just shut up and go away. mostly those are the people that envy rich people irl too. They hate that they don't have the devotion or knowledge to make good money, or are too reckless with spending their money on useless stuff.

Atm i have 200 gold on AH, and 15 mil on me. Am looking for a new market to play around in till i start making money again. next up : TT99 set for BM+wiz, and a decked out cleric level 90 for farming purposes

Astrohawke - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Or you just don't do it properly.

I quite easily hit the 10 million mark after starting with one million coins via gold trading in what was probably only a couple of weeks at most.

There's a reason I said earlier "write down prices" and "do research" and "see where the weekly fluctuations in price are" and "see how a sale may affect your sales rate" and the like.

If you do gold trading properly and have done the research, 10 million in slightly under two weeks is not unreasonable from gold trading at all. I cannot be on my computer 24/7, at most I have three hours to sit and actually play this game and check gold prices if I so want to, and at least, I have fifteen minutes.

I was going to go into a whole thing about supply and demand and the unpredictability of the gold market but I didn't feel like writing a wall of text that would just end up being too complicated.

So I just want to understand 1 thing. You talk about "weekly fluctuations" so presumably you think that gold prices are higher on some days than others during any given week. So that means you would buy on the days when prices are low and then sell on the days when the prices are high?

Pure_Black - Harshlands

You are starting to pick up quite nicely astro,

here is a good question, what item in the mall is more needed at one time, and less at the other time?, and ofcourse at what time?

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

I was going to go into a whole thing about supply and demand and the unpredictability of the gold market but I didn't feel like writing a wall of text that would just end up being too complicated.

The gold market be very predictable.

vbarbie

LOL what a ****.. Asking advise from Rich people About how to get Coin without CAsh shop ... HAHAHA Rich people are rich because of Cash Shop and only Cash Shop you fool ..

Aelric - Lost City

In my opinion... the easiest thing to merch would be gold, but it is also probably one of the hardest to make money off of. I just like the whole convenience of the Listings page and being able to see competitors prices right there infront of you. To make any money however, you have to keep your profit margins extremely low, like 1k-5k per gold because of the tax... you buy gold 365k ea with a tax of 7.3k, the resale @ 385k ea with a tax of 7.7k, for a total tax of 15k and profit of 5k, and that would actually be an ideal situation, at this moment on LC, gold is being bought for 367k and being sold for 380k, so thats a tax of 14940 and a profit of -1940 <bahah. no profit. b:bye

RedsRose - Lost City

vbarbie wrote: »

LOL what a ****.. Asking advise from Rich people About how to get Coin without CAsh shop ... HAHAHA Rich people are rich because of Cash Shop and only Cash Shop you fool ..

Zzzzz...sounds like a lazy person...b:bye

AznAngell - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-claps- Why do you think people make venomancer alts?

As far as solo grinding goes from early to late levels, venomancers are awesome. They do not cost much to keep going, if you can manage to get a Herc (yes, I also merchanted and gold traded up a Herc for my veno and have already made back that money) then you can easily be grinding 2 million every few days. That's basic physics. If you want to make money that badly? Level a veno. It's not even that hard to level any more so you can't complain about taking five months to level the veno to a point she can grind easily.

Wat kind of mobs/things do you grind on that gets you that much money ?b:shocked

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

I have tried plenty of markets already and most of those have been bad ones. If you use too big markup per item you wont sell and if the markup is too small you end up ruining it. Also, its hard to compete with people who have more money to invest.

Solandri - Heavens Tear

AznAngell - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wat kind of mobs/things do you grind on that gets you that much money ?b:shocked

The tests I ran with a level 30 cleric and veno yielded about 150k per hour selling the drops to an NPC. Selling the valuable stuff (hay, crafting mats) via cat shop bumped that up to 300-500k per hour.

By level 90 you should be able to grind 300-400k per hour at the spiders, towards the high end or even more for clerics. At that rate, 2 mil is about 5-7 hours, so 2 mil every few days is about right.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

I have tried plenty of markets already and most of those have been bad ones. If you use too big markup per item you wont sell and if the markup is too small you end up ruining it. Also, its hard to compete with people who have more money to invest.

Except for the packs, where you got a discount for buying 20 or 50 at a time, the amount of money you haven't doesn't really matter. Your profit per item is the same whether you're selling 1 of it or 1000 of it. All having more money does is let you stock up more during sales, let you leave your shop unattended for longer without worrying about running out of stock, and gives you the luxury to toss a bad purchase into the bank in case the price goes up in a couple weeks.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

@Solandri
You can also sell plenty of different things at the same time if you have the money for it.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

I was going to go into a whole thing about supply and demand and the unpredictability of the gold market but I didn't feel like writing a wall of text that would just end up being too complicated.

So I just want to understand 1 thing. You talk about "weekly fluctuations" so presumably you think that gold prices are higher on some days than others during any given week. So that means you would buy on the days when prices are low and then sell on the days when the prices are high?

That's exactly right. If you do your research you will notice that the price of gold is never static over a week, and on some days you will be able to sell for a higher price while on others you will be able to buy for a lower price. This is why I suggested that you do

1) Research into your gold market before you start to invest. Find out when the good buying days are and when the good selling days are.
2) Write down what you see. Having records of the highest and lowest buying price and highest and lowest selling price will help if you know how to utilise it and will also help with you truly being able to see what the differences in the prices are.

Let's say that on Monday, people are selling gold for the lowest price of 360k, and people are buying gold for the highest price of 340k. Let's say that today, on Friday, people are selling gold for a lowest of 370k and are buying for the highest of 350k. It doesn't look like much if you don't write it down or plan ahead.
But if you learn to buy your gold on Monday, and then keep adding small amounts of gold (I.E. not selling and rebuying your total amount of gold for the rest of the week) and then sell what you can on Friday you maximise your profits.

Profits are small until you just spend the amount of time it takes to do a small bit of research so you know when to maximise your profit.

And yes, sometimes the fluctuations will change and you may end up having to hold on to your gold or get less then you expected, but if you make sure to write down what you do then you should never lose money in the gold market. Especially when you can start to predict sales. Cause boy, it used to be if you could stockpile 200+ gold before a sale you were making assloads of profit. All because of the little work you did the few weeks before.

Astrohawke - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's exactly right. If you do your research you will notice that the price of gold is never static over a week, and on some days you will be able to sell for a higher price while on others you will be able to buy for a lower price.

That's exactly the reason I find it hard to believe people claiming to make tons of money with little initial capital and little time investment on the gold market. You trade on a daily basis so profits are so small it's ridiculous.

Let's say you started with 1m gold. And let's say best case scenario, prices alternate daily (low on Monday, high on Tuesday, low on Wedneday, high on Thursday etc) and this is being generous because realistically you're talking about buying Mondays and waiting days for prices to go up a little but for the sake of argument let's pretend prices rise the very next day.

So on Monday I buy gold for 350k. With 1m let's say I buy 3 gold which costs me 1m + 50k + 21k fee. On Tuesday, I sell for 400k (again that's generous because realistically buy-sell differences are a lot less). So I make 1.2m - 24k fee. Total profit: 105k. I do this for the next 6 days. Profit = 420k. Now I can buy 4 gold and a week has passed.

I repeat the same process as above except with 4 gold for another week and my profit by the end of the week is 560k (I won't bore you with the maths). Total profit over 2 weeks? about 1m. Keeping in mind this was with extremely best case scenarios. Not possible to turn 1m into 10m over 2 weeks with just gold trading.

That's why I wanted you to confirm you were buying on 1 day and selling on another. You could potentially make more money if you bought/sold hourly but like I said, that would mean a substantial investment in time and probably camping the NPC to buy again as soon as your gold gets sold. Not by doing this 10-15min daily.

I agree that losing money doing this is rare but it's not just about losing money. It's about profit vs time ratio. Profit gains from doing this are too small compared to the time it takes. You tie up money that can be used in other markets that make you better cash. Gold trading only works when you have a ton of cash. More than you can spend buying up items from multiple markets to resell. Then it's worth dumping the extra money into gold and making a little profit on the side instead of having it just sitting in the bank.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

As for checking catshops for good deals, from what I've seen on LC anyway, most of the stuff in west arch is either useless or overpriced. Occasionally you will find a good deal ...

I put the emphasis on the important part. Sometimes you get lucky. I personally found several very valuable skill books being sold at a lower price than they would normally be found in the AH in some catshops. I then posted them at a 2-2.5 mil markup in the AH and they sold in under 10 minutes.

You need to be WISE. You need to LEARN where demand lies for that time period, and capitalise on it. I am nowhere near the merchanting prowess of Warren, Solandri, or RoidAbuse; but, I have managed to purchase most of my endgame gear already through merchanting. If I were more proficient at it, I'd've earned the money sooner.

Past example: Charm packs were on sale and there were two BIG TW weekends for the top factions. So I purchased charm packs and resold the individual charms for a slight profit at the meeting locations for these factions. I sold out fairly quickly and immediately bought more for the following TWs/days. The key is minimizing markup to expedite sales and increase volumes. The money isn't in the markup, it's in the volume of sales <--- This I learned from those far greater than I.

Those QQing about only cashoppers being rich are just lazy and want things handed to them. Yes, you must be patient. Do you need to sit all day in a catshop? Not really, but it does help if you have a spare computer or yours can run all day.

And yes, sometimes you invest poorly. I personally am still trying to sell off some items to just barely break even. But that's where experience comes in. You learn from your mistakes and eventually become more proficient.

Hope that helps.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

Le stuff

I was buying and selling gold every day. If you read, I said that some days I would have up to three hours, other days I'd have twenty minutes max. Some days I would make virtually no profit, other days I was able to make a substantial amount.

You also have to remember the more you money you start to make the more potential gold you can play around with. By the time you get up to ten gold you can be buying at, say, two different prices, and selling at one price, or whatever. There's a lot of little things you can do to play around and make profit, even if sometimes you have to wait a couple of days for one batch of ten gold to sell.

(In fact, based on EVERY SINGLE SALE I HAVE EVER DONE, if you are waiting longer then one day, at most, to sell a batch of ten/fifteen gold, you can probably bet you priced it wrong. I've never ever had to wait longer then 12 hours to buy or sell an amount of gold twenty or less.)

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Astrohawke - Lost City wrote: »

That's exactly the reason I find it hard to believe people claiming to make tons of money with little initial capital and little time investment on the gold market. You trade on a daily basis so profits are so small it's ridiculous.

It actually works best with small amounts of money. There's a pretty good thread in the beginner's forum on how to do it:
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=625792

Any time the spread between the gold bid/offer price opens up to more than 4%, money can be made from it. Most days the spread is about 5% or less, so it's not worth it. But occasionally it opens up to a lot more (if you watch it long enough you can start to predict which days it'll open up). When that happens, if you're starting with a small sum of money (say 1 gold), you can easily double, triple, or quadruple it in one day.

But it's very risky, and the small volume of gold sales makes it nearly impossible to pull off with a large amount of gold. About 20 gold is probably the limit. Any more than that and you'd have to sit at the auctioneer for hours hitting refresh every few seconds. At that point, you're better off just cat shopping boutique items and going afk to do something else productive. RL forex traders program their computers to do this for them so it's not as labor intensive as in the game.

It's about profit vs time ratio. Profit gains from doing this are too small compared to the time it takes. You tie up money that can be used in other markets that make you better cash.

You're right about the profit vs. time ratio. But you don't tie up money doing this. If you're playing around with gold, your assets are a whole lot more liquid than anything you could cat shop. Only a small subset of the playerbase wants charms, or guardian scrolls, or ultimate subs. Everyone wants coin or gold. So your liquidity is a lot higher. If you've got 100% of your money in gold and you see a fantastic deal on a cat shop, you can convert your gold to coin in seconds instead of having to wait for the stuff on your cat shop to sell out.

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

well mobs for me arent the source of income in my books.I love to farm mats/herbs and sell to the highest catshop available.When i farm mats i limit myself a hour a day and i make 400k+ and i store half in bank..just plain out simple banking..if u cant live off 50% in profit something is wrong because i split it most of the time between 2 accounts.I have a goal to 30 or 40 mill and ill make it in due time..no rush.

Astrohawke - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I was buying and selling gold every day. If you read, I said that some days I would have up to three hours, other days I'd have twenty minutes max. Some days I would make virtually no profit, other days I was able to make a substantial amount.

You also have to remember the more you money you start to make the more potential gold you can play around with. By the time you get up to ten gold you can be buying at, say, two different prices, and selling at one price, or whatever. There's a lot of little things you can do to play around and make profit, even if sometimes you have to wait a couple of days for one batch of ten gold to sell.

(In fact, based on EVERY SINGLE SALE I HAVE EVER DONE, if you are waiting longer then one day, at most, to sell a batch of ten/fifteen gold, you can probably bet you priced it wrong. I've never ever had to wait longer then 12 hours to buy or sell an amount of gold twenty or less.)

That's what I was trying to say though. When you only have as little as a few mil to work with, you make better profits in other markets. But if you have a lot of money (i.e. you've bought up every underpriced item you could find in catshops and AH and still have money left over), you can dump the rest into the gold market to make some extra cash. But if you only have 1m to work with, there are better things to be investing in because daily profits in gold trading is very small.

And you have to be very careful how you put your buy/sell prices. Typically you want to be buying near the top of the list and selling near the bottom (minimizing profits) because if a bunch of people suddenly decide they have lots of money to spend and undercut you, you could very possibly not make any buys/sales in 48 hours and lose the fee.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're right about the profit vs. time ratio. But you don't tie up money doing this. If you're playing around with gold, your assets are a whole lot more liquid than anything you could cat shop. Only a small subset of the playerbase wants charms, or guardian scrolls, or ultimate subs. Everyone wants coin or gold. So your liquidity is a lot higher. If you've got 100% of your money in gold and you see a fantastic deal on a cat shop, you can convert your gold to coin in seconds instead of having to wait for the stuff on your cat shop to sell out.

There is no way you can convert gold to coin in seconds without losing out on a huge % of your investment. For starters you would need to cancel your current sale, losing the fee. Put up another lower sale price incurring more fees and if you wanted to liquidate in seconds, your sale price would have to be extremely low which probably means you end up selling for less than what you bought it for.

kenlee

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And also, kenlee, I'm totally a plain liar. I totally did not make ten million tonight, nope. Definitely not sitting on another 38 mils worth of stuff either. Nope. Totally all in my head.

lol you and the other dense players who didnt give any speific answer, just avoiding the subject should ****. i know all the prices on my server. i know that ppl need tokens, pstones, sof, herbs whatever but getting those in a week and selling them in a night doesnt make 10mil every night, get it now? that would be like 300mil in a month and i would see plenty of rank8 and nirvana around but the thing is, i dont see it. the only people that have that gear are CS and they said that they CS when i asked or others asked. i know that you can buy some stuff cheap and resell or just go farm TT (i can solo any from 1-1 to 3-2) and i know how much can be earned. sometimes even bh+cube gives you more than what you can earn in other ways in that day
you dont turn 1mil in 10mil over night so yes you are a liar

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Merchanting. Because that really is the only way to go.

Fifteen minutes everyday. Check shops in Arch and see what the market price is for something. Buy low, sell high.

It works.

In a month I have made easily over 200 million.

Right now I'm sitting on about 50 million in items. I just bought my veno her FC weapon, refined it to +3, sharded it with a perfect shard, got Dark Lord for my archer and bought TT mats easily worth up to 20 mil in price in total for my veno's 90 gear. This isn't including smaller purchases and moneyget the same affect provided you check every day for fifteen, twenty minutes what the prices are and do a small bit of math to calculate your total spending in comparison to your total profit.

Not hard.

you charged your credit card...b:scorn

I should charge mine too for that much

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you charged your credit card...b:scorn

I should charge mine too for that much

Nope, actually, I don't support this game through paying real money any more. Used to put money on the game, and I stopped when they decided they need to bring out sunshine packs again.

And you know what else? That coming from a level 45 BM who thinks archers do more damage spamming skills then through auto-attack and thinks Sins are OP just because he played one for a week means what you say has no credibility anyway.

Back to your own little sandbox, Yulk, and go be jealous from over there.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

kenlee wrote: »

lol you and the other dense players who didnt give any speific answer, just avoiding the subject should ****. i know all the prices on my server. i know that ppl need tokens, pstones, sof, herbs whatever but getting those in a week and selling them in a night doesnt make 10mil every night, get it now? that would be like 300mil in a month and i would see plenty of rank8 and nirvana around but the thing is, i dont see it. the only people that have that gear are CS and they said that they CS when i asked or others asked. i know that you can buy some stuff cheap and resell or just go farm TT (i can solo any from 1-1 to 3-2) and i know how much can be earned. sometimes even bh+cube gives you more than what you can earn in other ways in that day
you dont turn 1mil in 10mil over night so yes you are a liar

Read my posts properly kthnx

The people who have read my posts have actually seen me describe what I did and explain why I did it. The fact you can't even read something and comprehend what's happening is probably why you suck at merchanting so badly.

Off you toddle now.

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

not possible. not unless you use RL money

kenlee

lol sure, i read that you turned 1mil in 10m then 50m in like a night and a week? no need to read more than that. i invite you to go on my server and buy/sell gold. the only time gold is higher or lower is obviously when packs are in/out. you dont make money just from gold trading, right now i look at AH and people buy for 331300 and sell for 339000.
331000*1.02=337926 (almost 7k fee), you buy it for that much. if you sell, 339000*0.98=332220 (2 silver) so you actually lose. there are probably times (packs comes back) when you make lets say 10k-30k, you need to have at least 1k gold to make 10mil and the highest up and downs are in weeks/months (packs) not days. making money just from gold trading when you have only 1mil to invest is lol...

im constantly making money and not gonna say anything but you and others choose to give free advises to others, like buy low sell high... lol lame and avoiding the answers. that not helping anyone, just confuse them more

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear

Merchant Objects:


TT
FC
Niravana
Lunar
SoF/PF (Buy from catshop and resell, can usually make a pretty good profit)
Gold


That's all I currently know of.

But personally......I just do quests and grind on higher lvl mobs for DQ drops (for some reaosn higher lvl mobs drop DQ more often then my lvl ), sell basically anything and everything I get.
Only time I don't NPC everything, is when I feel like setting a Catshop up over night to sell my stuff.

MagicHamsta - Lost City

LifeHunting - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Merchant Objects:


TT
FC
Niravana
Lunar
SoF/PF (Buy from catshop and resell, can usually make a pretty good profit)
Gold
profession mats like herbs, ulti orb mats
Hamsters b:cry
Packs (directly or indirectly through the items from packs.)


That's all I currently know of.

But personally......I just do quests and grind on higher lvl mobs for DQ drops (for some reaosn higher lvl mobs drop DQ more often then my lvl ), sell basically anything and everything I get.
Only time I don't NPC everything, is when I feel like setting a Catshop up over night to sell my stuff.

b:avoid

Devoted - Lost City

kenlee wrote: »

im constantly making money and not gonna say anything but you and others choose to give free advises to others, like buy low sell high... lol lame and avoiding the answers. that not helping anyone, just confuse them more

...

Vague advice is the best advice you can give really. If I were to tell people what I sold to make xx million daily I would lose massive amounts of potential profit because people would saturate the market.

I'm not sure how you think people who are rich only cash shop.. say you worked hard and made roughly 150mil after playing some markets and searching cat shops. If you buy gold at 390k you would be able to get 400 packs. If you sold those packs for 430k each you would make over 30 million in profit. This is only 1 common example, factor in multiple ways of increasing your investment by ~20-30% and you make bank.