Would you like 2x back?

Yindra - Sanctuary

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

As the title says, do you want 2x back?

Most definitely.

Post a reply saying yes/no and why please.

"Why"? Because 2x drops means twice the chance for usable equipment, twice the chance for NPCable equipment, twice the chance for DQ items and twice the chance gold drops. 2x gold means exactly that, twice the money in each pile. 2x exp means more exp and faster levelling (hopefully includes 2x spirit too).

What's so bad about any of these?

Of course, right now would be a somewhat bad time. Currently doing WQ only --- still have to level the pets, though, but in general I'm not currently doing much that would profit from any of the 2x. When I get to 71, DQ 71 should open --- but I can't currently tell whether there's a lot of DQ 71 items that I don't have a healthy supply of, so it might need some time to drain the stash before getting to a significant amount of monster killing.

Well, I vote for "2x permanently" :-) That would allow them to do 2x events on top of that :-)

Not everyone is a 24/7 dungeon running trademutant. Some of us actually struggle to get anywhere.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I never said that I don't cash shop... I have and do casually cash-shop from time to time. That being said, I've farmed my whole TT90 set, I farmed my TT99, I farmed my Lunar Neck, I farmed my Nirvana pants, I've farmed/merchanted for my +10 refine on my Deicide.

I've opend about a total of 400 packs since Anniversary Packs first came out. I've opened about 350 Anniversary packs, 5 Coral Packs and 50 Tiger Packs. The only two things I've received were Event Helm and Lunar Weapon, the latter of which I traded for an event cape and event boots. All my refines on my gear except for my +10 90 Gold axes were miraged/tisha'd/merchanted.

To be fair, 44m of that was from $100 I spent hoping I would get enough coin to buy Scroll of Tome which I didn't get... the rest of the money was from farming and merchanting. I also spent a considerable amount of coin farmed/merch'd on lvl 11 skills, and I'm only 3 or 4 skills away from being finished.

you right i went back and looked through the post I thought u said that in....guess you fall into both categories then buying stuff with cash and buying gear other people bought with cash. though it is at least good to see someone who worked for (some of) what they use.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Already been stated by a number of people in this thread......blah blah blah

evidently u missed the point of those quotes. I wasnt asking questions to be answered I was using what u posted to show my point.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

What we also have is a generation of people who are addicted to the exp giveaways, then expect everything else to be given to them when they aren't happy with what they can get. Things don't happen quickly enough, or they don't get given enough so they whine and complain that on we should have money reward quests and permanent double drops... they don't want to work in the game, only have an easy time and have fun, yet don't see the fact that they're rushing through everything they should be spending time on and focusing on leveling to reach the end while not paying attention to the journey.

All the newer players want instant gratification, and this isn't really supposed to be a game of instant gratification, but working hard to achieve long term goals and enjoying the fruits of your labor when you're done. Just look at how many wraith's sprits or eyes you need to craft event helm/boot or the drop rate in Nirvana and how many runs a full party needs to do to get one piece of gear each to see what a long term goal is supposed to be.

There really aren't many long term goals left in the game which is why you have threads of people complaining that there isn't anything really left to do.

this was (one of) my points (you left out a sentence when u quoted me). I also said "The problem is that the packs and all the cash gear has caused the player base to outgrow the content. (all the fast exp too but that isnt where this thread has gone.)"

thanks for reiterating for meb:thanks

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Aneurysmal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, however almost all drop rates need adjustment.

TT droprate is right on target.

FF droprate is about 1/10th of what it should be

Lunar droprate is about 1/2 of what it should be

Nirvana droprate is about 1/4 of what it should be

World map mobs droprate varies from on target from level 1-90 to way low on 90+

Worldboss droprate is about 1/3 of what it should be

Heaven/Hell droprate is about 1/3 what it should be

OHT droprate is about 1/2 what it should be

Unicorn Forest droprate is about 1/3 to 1/4 of what it should be

Valley of the Scarred droprate is about 3x what it should be

Moonshade Desert Droprate is about 1/5 of what it should be

FB droprate is about 3/4 of what it should be for most and 1/5 what it should be for book drops on the last bosses of Abaddon and Seat of Torment

Did I miss any regions?

But if they adjust nothing, yaay as well.

Oops, forgot the exp factor: No, exp rates on many things should be reduced... I still want a basic server. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7919192&postcount=28

I agree. It's a big flat no for me when it comes to 2x. Drops however need to be adjusted. TT mats are a big part of why people don't want 2x back, as it drops the prices even more, making it harder for non-CSers to create a profit unless they know how to merchandise.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Maragon - Dreamweaver wrote: »

evidently u missed the point of those quotes. I wasnt asking questions to be answered I was using what u posted to show my point.

That wasn't clear.

this was (one of) my points (you left out a sentence when u quoted me). I also said "The problem is that the packs and all the cash gear has caused the player base to outgrow the content. (all the fast exp too but that isnt where this thread has gone.)"

thanks for reiterating for meb:thanks

My stance hasn't changed since what, sept or oct of last year when packs first came out? I've said nothing new, just the truth from how I see things. I have event items mostly because it's necessary to compete and I would be foolish not to get them if they're available.

Farming gear for friends and guildies is part of what it's all about, but you can't do that for free or expect PWI to give you coins to pay for all your expenses in-game. You have to earn it. Expecting or wanting 2x drops or for quests that pay out large sums of coin aren't really going to help, in fact, it's mostly hurt.

TigerLily - Lost City

I understand that a bunch of lowbies gets really happy since they only have to sell 2 gold in AH to get those 8 ape tooths b/c of the drop event or whatever. They dont have to do any boring TT at all, can just keep rushing Hyper Frost all day - so yay for them <.<

I made about 150-200 mil to last drop event, just like most high lvls that can rush multiple endgame instances each day and sell HH99 gold for 10-25 mil each. So if i was selfish i would vote yes for more double drop >.<

But people have to look at the bigger picture. When every item you can achieve in game drops to like 30% of its original value due to the continuous double drop events, it creates a rather disturbing unbalance compare to the cash shop items you can only get using gold.

Only farmable items that wont drop low is endgame related like Nirvana and TT99 gold. So better geared high lvls like me will still benefit and have no problem what so ever to keep up with gold prices. Its only the mats low/mid level players farms that drops really low.

So for any average player, its pretty much impossible to make money in game to afford buying gold after a double drop event. Really only option is grind 24/7 for DQs or charging gold or lagging out Archo West with more cat shops buying selling stuff.

Also i never understood why some people make a difference between farming for gear and farming for money. Its the same thing. If you farm for money you're obviously gonna use the money to improve your char with gear/refines. Just as how you farm mats to make gear to improve your char.

Anyway i hope the server will get a break from the double drops now ;/

Borsuc - Raging Tide

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

Also i never understood why some people make a difference between farming for gear and farming for money.

Because "farming for money" usually means "sell to NPC" which means added coins into the economy. "Farming for gear" means "farming for mats" (and keeping them), which are LOST when you craft that item you want.

No "inflation" (either of coins or items) at all. Just more gear. And what is wrong with that? Oh right, you want newcomers to have a hard time to "compete" with teh "old elites" who "worked hard" in this game. (I don't know about you, but I prefer to work hard on a job, not a game)

Is it jealousy?

I'm just wondering, how can double mat drops even cause deflation at all if there's also double coin drops? Double coins, double mats, means price will stay the same... EXCEPT that a lot more people will have their weapons finished sooner. Oh right, I forgot, this is a problem with demand, you want lots of demand for profits... I can see that, but I prefer to take the side of the "customer" who wants his demands done easier.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because "farming for money" usually means "sell to NPC" which means added coins into the economy. "Farming for gear" means "farming for mats" (and keeping them), which are LOST when you craft that item you want.

Farming for money means getting items that will sell for money. Gold and some green mats, herbs, minable mats, drop mats, etc.... it's all the same thing. Killing stuff to make money regardless if an NPC is involved or not.

I'm just wondering, how can double mat drops even cause deflation at all if there's also double coin drops? Double coins, double mats, means price will stay the same... EXCEPT that a lot more people will have their weapons finished sooner. Oh right, I forgot, this is a problem with demand, you want lots of demand for profits... I can see that, but I prefer to take the side of the "customer" who wants his demands done easier.

See the thing is, you have most of the high levels here saying NO even though we'd benefit far more from 2x drops than anyone below 10x. Most of us have seen what it has done to the economy and despite how much we would actually benefit from it, see it destroying the game.

Is that too difficult for you to graps? Apparently it is.

Why does everything have to happen so instantly? Because impatient people have to hit 100, don't get enough freebies, want instant gratification... then what else is left, not really anything.

The advocates against 2x drops all stand to profit greatly from them, but vote no. Why? I guess that math escapes you.

Nakhimov - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

The advocates against 2x drops all stand to profit greatly from them, but vote no. Why? I guess that math escapes you.

I'm interested to see who exactly voted no: I get the feeling that it's the people who have played for a long time and are seeing how bad the 2x exp/drops is for the game and the the economy. Maybe that's just me?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

I'm interested to see who exactly voted no: I get the feeling that it's the people who have played for a long time and are seeing how bad the 2x exp/drops is for the game and the the economy. Maybe that's just me?

Just skim through the thread... with a few exceptions, most of the people who want 2x so badly have no idea what the game or economy used to be like... they want more coin but don't realize that 2x drops has screwed the 8x-9x player base from doing anything but charging $$$ for it, and before you hit 8x, you really don't need all that much unless you do wined BH every day... and they could just grind 7x land mobs over by dreaming cloud or 6x foxies to make good coin... cause if it's in an instance, they most likely don't even kill anything.

I never had to pay BH fees because a couple times a week at the end of World Quest I would always spend 30 minutes farming high mats so I could make the wines and charge people mats or coin. Apparently these broke-**** nubs aren't even that smart. lol

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because "farming for money" usually means "sell to NPC" which means added coins into the economy. "Farming for gear" means "farming for mats" (and keeping them), which are LOST when you craft that item you want.

No "inflation" (either of coins or items) at all. Just more gear. And what is wrong with that? Oh right, you want newcomers to have a hard time to "compete" with teh "old elites" who "worked hard" in this game. (I don't know about you, but I prefer to work hard on a job, not a game)

Is it jealousy?

I'm just wondering, how can double mat drops even cause deflation at all if there's also double coin drops? Double coins, double mats, means price will stay the same... EXCEPT that a lot more people will have their weapons finished sooner. Oh right, I forgot, this is a problem with demand, you want lots of demand for profits... I can see that, but I prefer to take the side of the "customer" who wants his demands done easier.

*facepaw*
you're lack of the understanding disturbs me.
and "Lost" does not go with "craft".
just like how "added coin(s)" does not go with "no inflation"...
lols~

RedsRose - Lost City

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

I'm interested to see who exactly voted no: I get the feeling that it's the people who have played for a long time and are seeing how bad the 2x exp/drops is for the game and the the economy. Maybe that's just me?

I voted know and I benefited greatly from 2x drops; that I will not deny.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

I voted know and I benefited greatly from 2x drops; that I will not deny.

2x 3-3 was pretty amazing b:dirty

SneakyStalk - Harshlands

WTB 2x drops until I get my full 99 set. kthxbai b:victory

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I agree. It's a big flat no for me when it comes to 2x. Drops however need to be adjusted. TT mats are a big part of why people don't want 2x back, as it drops the prices even more, making it harder for non-CSers to create a profit unless they know how to merchandise.

TT mat sales are zero-sum. Any money you make selling a TT mat is money someone else is losing. There's value gained in the transaction, but in terms of coin it's zero-sum. So the price of TT mats has nothing to do with how much money players make on average.

The same misunderstanding came up when people were QQing about how much money venos could make. They'd repeatedly bring up rare pet sales, saying a veno could tame rare pets and make millions of coin selling them. All the time forgetting that those millions of coin came from other venos who wanted to use the pet. Again, zero-sum.

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because "farming for money" usually means "sell to NPC" which means added coins into the economy. "Farming for gear" means "farming for mats" (and keeping them), which are LOST when you craft that item you want.

No "inflation" (either of coins or items) at all. Just more gear. And what is wrong with that? Oh right, you want newcomers to have a hard time to "compete" with teh "old elites" who "worked hard" in this game. (I don't know about you, but I prefer to work hard on a job, not a game)

No, there's inflation because there are no item sinks. Items constantly being added + no items being removed = inflation. Coin at least is removed from the economy by people buying skills, buying CS stones, etc. The only way for an item to leave the game economy is for it to be decomposed (some TT items), a player to quit the game with the item in his inventory, or for a player to accidentally sell it to an NPC. So there's constant item inflation in the game.

When the number of items in the game exceeds the number of players who wish to use that item, its market value drops to near zero and it's game over. You already see that with certain TT mats like iron plates of darkness. For molds, initially it was the unpopular molds like the cudgel of ancient alloy which were "worthless". Increasingly, more useful molds like the sleeves of the sea captain are becoming worthless.

That may be great for the new player, but what's the point of playing a game if everything is handed to you on a silver platter? You might as well just go to a private server, turn on god mode, give yourself the best equipment, and one-shot everything. There has to be some challenge, some difficulty for you to be gratified with a sense of accomplishment. 2x mat drops just hastens the arrival of the end of the game, where there are so many accumulated items that everyone can easily outfit themselves with the best gear, and there is no point playing the game.

Edit: The real world avoids this fate because items wear out and disappear from the economy, and need to be replaced. Past games have implemented gear wearing out (losing max durability each time you repaired), but players universally hated it. So game devs have to be careful to balance the rate at which new items are added to the game with how long they expect the game to be live.

Maragon - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

My stance hasn't changed since what, sept or oct of last year when packs first came out? I've said nothing new, just the truth from how I see things. I have event items mostly because it's necessary to compete and I would be foolish not to get them if they're available.

this is exactly how pw is operating. the event items come from packs and some of the items are only from packs (cloudcharger, champ scroll) or the vast majority from packs (the 18k drop items and toa lesser extent frost gold and lunar gold). theyre only necessary to compete because they are so readily available. But their main source is from the cash shop. Significantly increase availability of a high level item to those with plastic -> significantly increase demand so people can compete with it -> more pack sales -> more people with the gear to compete with -> (with all the free exp) no time to get from the game -> more pack sales = vicious cycle leading to people that dont want to use plastic on a "free" game but still want to "compete" creating threads like this.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Farming gear for friends and guildies is part of what it's all about, but you can't do that for free or expect PWI to give you coins to pay for all your expenses in-game. You have to earn it. Expecting or wanting 2x drops or for quests that pay out large sums of coin aren't really going to help, in fact, it's mostly hurt.

yep.

I for one would much rather it be that you do have to farm for what u get. I dont know which event helm u have whether the one from the championship scroll or the one from getting the 18,xxx drops but it used to be if someone had one of those it meant they worked hard for it. championship scrolls i have heard were a bit easier to get then the unicorn forest ones but the tournament is broke now so it doesnt matter.

I do farm alot on both my main and alts for TT mats crafting mats etc which, imo, is the way it should be done. I dont want PWI to hand me anything I would much rather play the game and slowly work my way up.

Yishuin - Sanctuary

I see a lot of thread speaking about x2 event in TT. It allows them (veno ^^) to make a huge amount of coin.

mmmh hey guys remember you are not selling the mats to an npc but to players. If there is too many mats at auction these mats will cost nothing.

omg but... im stupid : gogo farm TT all veno! this way endgame gear will cost nothing and youll be screwed .

sorry that was just a little off topic thread b:surrender

A_Noob - Dreamweaver

i like farming 7 illusion stones in one day.

RedsRose - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

2x 3-3 was pretty amazing b:dirty

You know it!!!

Between 3-2 and 3-3 = b:dirtyb:victory

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Edit: The real world avoids this fate because items wear out and disappear from the economy, and need to be replaced. Past games have implemented gear wearing out (losing max durability each time you repaired), but players universally hated it. So game devs have to be careful to balance the rate at which new items are added to the game with how long they expect the game to be live.

we avoid it by not using monies at all
._.'

also ya it be pretty sad seeing mmorpg games slowly head toward the same fate me has seen dozens follow.
(>.<)

Michael_Dark - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

You know it!!!

Between 3-2 and 3-3 = b:dirtyb:victory

I'm assuming that's how you farmed your 8jun. b:chuckle

Grats!

RedsRose - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I'm assuming that's how you farmed your 8jun. b:chuckle

Grats!

b:sweat

The good majority of it yes. A few miscalculations got me in the end and had to revert to lower level HH's for better profit.

Also, ty!

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

2x b:laugh then i can get my tt armour and such

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

2x b:laugh then i can get my tt armour and such

Lets put proper grammar on your list first.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

I've recently had a change of heart.

I voted yes because the game balance has already been shifted heavily towards dailies and cash-shop items, so I figure why leave things only half-finished?

For example, I can buy buckets of HyperXP stones using profits from selling Packs, which would give me an extra 12X experience advantage over an average player. But with 2X experience on my advantage shrinks to just 6.5X

Also, even though my profits go up quite a lot during 2X events, my income doesn't double, which means my advantage as a merchant (which is a gift PWI has given to me and other merchants by destabilizing their own economy) also shrinks.

So, yeah, the game's already been changed, for better or for worse. Might as well go all the way and finish the job.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

you know, I have NP with normal drops back, but can you people PLEASE stop with the 2x drops already? b:cold

Admante - Dreamweaver

Definitely no.

konariraiden

I voted yes, but only on the condition that it applies to world map normal mobs only (+ Heaven/Hell)

I b:heart grinding. b:dirty

_Leiian_ - Heavens Tear

Yes why:
economy of TTs mats is based still on 2x drops, also if 2x drops is over.
Getting 20% exp at lvl 85 in a ff run without spending money with a lvl 85-90 squad is better than get only 10%.
With 2x drops in 8-9 tt runs u could make about a full armor.(if u run them with friends. or solo squad mode.)
FF drops are double too, that means 2x past of fc city and 2x flaw gems at last boss.

Other? In 1 hour of grinding u can get about 200k coins. That's not bad if u've time to spend and u're low lvl to run tts.

According to this, prices drop down, u earn many coins, make a good gear is easier, for low and high lvls.
And, mmmm...what about 6 gbas in a 3-1 run? or 6-8 DoS in 2-2? Alll squad is happy.

Pallantin - Sanctuary

I'd like to see it come back on weekends,at least.Once or twice a month. it would help those that aren't rich and would prefer not spend real world money just to pay..a "free" game. And would be nice to have the extra coin on hand every now and then

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

No thanks.

Actually, bring it back. But stop the 2x's after I bought all the raptures I need at a cheaper price.
Thank you. b:kiss