Are barbs really getting this greedy?

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

BH 69 is doable with. BM. BH 79 is doable with wizard easily. BH 89 eden and brim are doable with BM. Also once I tanked Phlebo in eden, without big problems. Yes I had to use tree of protection on genie but we did it quite smoothly. So it doable with wizard also. Brim same.
BH. 100 I don't know yet. Maybe they are doable with BM without problems. So what are barb gor? TT and some special bosses and instances like RB? He need it also so it's not enough to pay them for tanking.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Then my post obviously was not directed towards u.

Then don't quote my post next time, accusing me of being impatient and having to pay a barb because I'm not willing to wait for one to come along who doesn't want to be paid. And just in case that slipped your memory:

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Because YOU are the one who needs the barb. YOU want your bhs/tt/rbs done. YOU want to lvl. YOU need a barb. & YOU are impatient & unwilling to wait for a "nice" barb to come along.

And the rest of that post. You had quoted me. Therefore, that had been directed at me, without you actually knowing what I did or did not do. Congratulations, now you look like a moron. Because obviously, your post was directed at me, but you were entirely wrong.

b:bye

TigerLily - Lost City

There are a lot of greedy people playing PWI, some of them are playing barbs a class that in many cases will let you act out your greediness without anyone complaining or putting an end to the nonsense.

Pretty sure there are just as many greedy wizards or archers or w/e but they really aren't in a position to demand others to pay for them or get all the good drops.

I leveled up my own barb to 9X since i got so tired of all the bs from random barbs and its rather amazing not having to deal with them anymore. Its like they always assumed they should get the best drop what ever instance you where farming.

And no playing barb and tanking stuff is not that costly if you dont use hp charm, repairs is nothing compared to the mp a cleric is spending. Its also nothing compared to the cost for the archer in TT99 or when you have to use barrage half the instance like in Lunar glade or Frost.

I do find it rather amusing if im doing BH69 for one of my alts and some terrible barb with like 8k hp in tiger joins the party and thinks his gonna get a free run. I mean gtfo moron we can just get hp buffs from a lvl 60 barb in Whetstone Keep and have the BM tank (you actually dont even need buffs but it helps). BMs will never start **** about dodging whine fee b:chuckle.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

There are a lot of greedy people playing PWI, some of them are playing barbs a class that in many cases will let you act out your greediness without anyone complaining or putting an end to the nonsense.

Pretty sure there are just as many greedy wizards or archers or w/e but they really aren't in a position to demand others to pay for them or get all the good drops.

I leveled up my own barb to 9X since i got so tired of all the bs from random barbs and its rather amazing not having to deal with them anymore. Its like they always assumed they should get the best drop what ever instance you where farming.

And no playing barb and tanking stuff is not that costly if you dont use hp charm, repairs is nothing compared to the mp a cleric is spending. Its also nothing compared to the cost for the archer in TT99 or when you have to use barrage half the instance like in Lunar glade or Frost.

I do find it rather amusing if im doing BH69 for one of my alts and some terrible barb with like 8k hp in tiger joins the party and thinks his gonna get a free run. I mean gtfo moron we can just get hp buffs from a lvl 60 barb in Whetstone Keep and have the BM tank (you actually dont even need buffs but it helps). BMs will never start **** about dodging whine fee b:chuckle.

True. And cleric mana spending is just little bit higher(just about 10mana/s if he use just demon ironhearth and nothing more, if he use anything more my mana spending is higher than cleric) than mana spending full power DDing wizard. However nobody want so see it. And ironhearth has to be in chain so launch 1 after one without break.

TigerLily - Lost City

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

True. And cleric mana spending is just little bit higher(just about 10mana/s if he use just demon ironhearth and nothing more, if he use anything more my mana spending is higher than cleric) than mana spending full power DDing wizard. However nobody want so see it. And ironhearth has to be in chain so launch 1 after one without break.

The mp you waste as wizard in instances if you go full out DD is loads i know and specially if you go TT <.<

I guess it gets a bit less if you're sage wiz and have more chi to regen mp with Essential Sutra or spark and just use small spells to save mp.

However it does cost more than a barbs repair bill in many cases. But the wizard aint essential for the party to do the instance so no one gives a **** about how much they spend b:cry.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

The mp you waste as wizard in instances if you go full out DD is loads i know and specially if you go TT <.<

I guess it gets a bit less if you're sage wiz and have more chi to regen mp with Essential Sutra or spark and just use small spells to save mp.

However it does cost more than a barbs repair bill in many cases. But the wizard aint essential for the party to do the instance so no one gives a **** about how much they spend b:cry.

That's true also. You are much more important than me. No doubt.b:pleased

Fruitluips - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Any half-decent BM should be able to tank BH69 with a competent cleric. No barb needed.

That's easy to say at your level >_> Skill plays a much smaller role than luck for Polearm when a BM is tanking because the room for error is almost nonexistent. I've solo healed a BM for Polearm before - we were both into our 80s at this time, well geared and he had a ton of HP - the result was a circus.

You can say one or both of us isn't skilled enough, but I'm just not comfortable with a BM tanking for Pole. If he doesn't get purified instantly, it could all be over. Keep in mind that the other DDers are getting pummeled by the AOE; the cleric has to keep an eye on them as well, and that takes time potentially used for healing the tank. Also keep in mind that most BH squads are full of strangers, and the odds for disaster are much greater.

As far as any other BH (that I've encountered) is concerned, the BMs need to suck it up because everything else is a lot less nasty than Pole.

Kaneharo - Dreamweaver

Honestly, I don't plan on paying for any barb, or any class's costs for that matter, unless they're willing to pay for everyone else's costs. I use around 50-100 mp foodpots per FC/TT run, sometimes more, as a Wizard. depending on token costs, that's at least 60-120k out of my own pocket,+ the 15k+ repair costs from zhenning, which is usually lessened by competent squads. I also spend at least 75k on chi stones, cause I try to make sure the least amount of time is spent on a boss. Now, adding those costs together, add up to around... AT LEAST 135-210k per FC/TT run I do, on a good squad For BHs, about 160k + wine costs. RBs, I'm usually not worried about, as it's practically free for me, due to survey-provided charms, Auras, and RB pays its own repair/pot/chi fees without me spending a dime. Now, I'm not demanding I get paid for these things, but that being said, I think that it's rather unfair that I'd have to pay out of my own pocket, in addition to these costs, to pay anyone ANYTHING. Sure, I'll be nice if they're a friend, and probably loan a charm if they need it. But if you're going to go so far as to DEMAND that I put money out of my own pocket to pay for you, forget it. I have other ways of leveling and getting what I need.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

Fruitluips - Lost City wrote: »

That's easy to say at your level >_> Skill plays a much smaller role than luck for Polearm when a BM is tanking because the room for error is almost nonexistent. I've solo healed a BM for Polearm before - we were both into our 80s at this time, well geared and he had a ton of HP - the result was a circus.

You can say one or both of us isn't skilled enough, but I'm just not comfortable with a BM tanking for Pole. If he doesn't get purified instantly, it could all be over. Keep in mind that the other DDers are getting pummeled by the AOE; the cleric has to keep an eye on them as well, and that takes time potentially used for healing the tank. Also keep in mind that most BH squads are full of strangers, and the odds for disaster are much greater.

As far as any other BH (that I've encountered) is concerned, the BMs need to suck it up because everything else is a lot less nasty than Pole.

The BM has to play it smart. No spamming HF - save sutra for when you see yourself getting debuffed. Same with genie. Something goes wrong? TOP. Normally gives enough time for the cleric to purify. Normally; because he could as well be lagging, and chances are even a barb wouldn't be able to stay alive if cleric d/c's or lags too much.

I could successfully solo heal a BM as a lv72 cleric. The previous cleric couldn't even purify.

It DOES require more skill, and I agree, the margin of error is small. All in all, I also agree it IS safer for a barb to tank...

... But I won't waste 2 hours + trying to find a tank when I successfully can tank myself. And I had people expecting me to do that.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

And the rest of that post. You had quoted me. Therefore, that had been directed at me, without you actually knowing what I did or did not do. Congratulations, now you look like a moron. Because obviously, your post was directed at me, but you were entirely wrong.

Or maybe my post was directed towards your statement/question? & not at u or w/e u do yourself?

The mp you waste as wizard in instances if you go full out DD is loads i know and specially if you go TT <.<

Um... just for the heck of it... everyone is talking about barb repair bills only... u ppl do realise that they also waste a shizload of mp food? I need to spam mp pots each time after I buff or do a few skills (unless I bring mp orbs), or there's a cleric with demon IH or the the tank is just lazy & only flesh reams once in a while & doesn't use any other skills.


Blah. Anyway, it's a game b:chuckle Need to get by somehow, unless u're a rich zhener. If you can find free bhs/rbs/etc & b:embarrass ppl that actually pay u.... Lol good for you... How many of us have ignored chats asking for squads till we noticed the FREE* w/e tag next to the message. Is that greedy? Duno, don't care. Not gona ask for some priveleges in squad, but will never pass an opportunity to save some $ b:chuckle I got called a greedy **** & etc so many times because I would refuse to lower the price when selling an item. Lol Am I? Lol they would QQ for half an hour then still pay up, means it was worth it.
In the end w/e works for you. Smb asking to get paid for squading with you, ignore them.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or maybe my post was directed towards your statement/question? & not at u or w/e u do yourself?


Um... just for the heck of it... everyone is talking about barb repair bills only... u ppl do realise that they also waste a shizload of mp food? I need to spam mp pots each time after I buff or do a few skills (unless I bring mp orbs), or there's a cleric with demon IH or the the tank is just lazy & only flesh reams once in a while & doesn't use any other skills.


Blah. Anyway, it's a game b:chuckle Need to get by somehow, unless u're a rich zhener. If you can find free bhs/rbs/etc & b:embarrass ppl that actually pay u.... Lol good for you... How many of us have ignored chats asking for squads till we noticed the FREE* w/e tag next to the message. Is that greedy? Duno, don't care. Not gona ask for some priveleges in squad, but will never pass an opportunity to save some $ b:chuckle I got called a greedy **** & etc so many times because I would refuse to lower the price when selling an item. Lol Am I? Lol they would QQ for half an hour then still pay up, means it was worth it.
In the end w/e works for you. Smb asking to get paid for squading with you, ignore them.

I took this from another post on this theme. I made this calculation to prove that cleric mp spend is not too much higher than wizard in full DD power.

Ok you are right I have to add casting time. But I'm not sure if If cannot channeling another spell while previous is in casting phase. Probably not.
Gush channeling +casting time = 2s mana 256
Stone rain channeling + casting =3s mana 375
Pitfall channeling + casting =2s mana 320
undine strike channeling + casting=1.5s mana 600
Will of Phoenix channeling + casting=2s mana 445
and repeat.

All channeling time + casting time is 10.5s all mana is 1996/10.5=190.1/s
Demon iron heart mana spend is 200mana/s

So You spend 200 mana/s with demon iron hearth. So I spend 190.1 mana/s which is slightly less than you If you use JUST iron hearth and nothing more. If you use something else you spend a less mana than me.
Of course cleric is more important I just showing mana spend calculations.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

Airyll makes excellent points.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um... just for the heck of it... everyone is talking about barb repair bills only... u ppl do realise that they also waste a shizload of mp food? I need to spam mp pots each time after I buff or do a few skills (unless I bring mp orbs), or there's a cleric with demon IH or the the tank is just lazy & only flesh reams once in a while & doesn't use any other skills.

I made quick calculations (anyways, to most people it's quick, but I suck at maths...) between my cleric and my BM's spammable skills - mostly what I use within squads. I came up with nearly 10% usage on BM per skill (was like 7 or 8%) compared to 3% on the cleric. At that point I was running BH51 nearly daily, and I used more MP pots on the BM than the cleric.

Of course if you add BB and such to this, yeah, my cleric def. uses more mana pots, while my BM can simply attack without using skills.

Having a low mana pool sucks x[.

Wolfsfang - Dreamweaver

i have never asked for any free charm for TT, Gamma, or TW. i always pay wine fee's in BH's and i do random people's bh29 for free. it all depends on the barb. i only ask for 1 free hyper for fc XD but dun really hassle anyone for it

Mrvate - Heavens Tear

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So You spend 200 mana/s with demon iron hearth. So I spend 190.1 mana/s which is slightly less than you If you use JUST iron hearth and nothing more. If you use something else you spend a less mana than me.
Of course cleric is more important I just showing mana spend calculations.

Although you have good calculations, there is the fact that wiz's can DD cheaper. ih is the clerics cheapest heal mp/hp ratio (also for the most part the only squads let you use without calling you fail). But another thing to add for the cheapness to wizzies is wellspring, and double/triple sparking. which will give you far more mp then it would a cleric. another thing on doing that is that wizzies get more chi then clerics pretty much every way possible. only 1 skill for clerics will give 20 chi, which is chromatic beam (which is 970mp per cast). while I don't know wizzies chi gain off top of my head, I do know the most basic pyrogram is 15 chi... think about continuing listing chi numbers but that sounds really boring.

But just as a case in point, when doing TT's with Rule while I was just regular ih (not demon only lvl 10) and rule was DD'ing (who I'd assume has most his celestial skills) I had used 5 event pots, before rule had to use 1. Largely because of wellspring and sparking.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

i dont wear HP charms in TT. Dont need em tbh. so yeah, i dont ask for em. I do wear on occassion when I put money into the game, a spirit charm - which affords me to save on mana pots using in game coin, and I can do more TT runs back to back on 100k coins than if I werent wearing a silver MP charm (yes the siver is the best zen/mana ratio). TBH, my highest cost is not in repairs, but in the mana it takes to spam FR as well as alacrity to cancel spells.. etc.. and other skills to fill in for chi building. So on so forth. Depending on the squad I'm with, I can easily go through 100 of the level 60 MP potions (those are all i need considering the higher level and event pots would be a waste of coin as they restore more mana than I have a pool for). Repairs seriously aren't that bad when there's DD's doing their jobs right. I've come out of TT runs with 20-30k repairs on good runs, other times 60-70k repairs. Obviously on the lower repair cost runs, the mana cost is lower - but those good runs can still cost about 75k after repairs and mana pot replacement.

However, I think other classes may have more overall costs associated with instance runs than I do.

edit:
why does my avatar still show I'm 75?? I've been 77 for a couple days now

Sandaili - Dreamweaver

I was in a BH with a barb who died in a few seconds on Zimo. Good thing I had herc. And he was being healed. In this climate of barbs who have like 0 training and skill....make sure you got a good veno with you. He was being healed, too, and just died.

Thinking he was a good barb I simply got close to the boss and pulled, ran down past the barb. He doesn't take aggro, I take a few hits, and then finally he takes aggro. Had I known he was going to run and not attack right away I would have pulled from far away, rebuffed pet......I guess I'm going to from now on since you're right...a lot of barbs are like...totally lacking experience or skills (literally) for their levels.

saphire1960

Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Although you have good calculations, there is the fact that wiz's can DD cheaper. ih is the clerics cheapest heal mp/hp ratio (also for the most part the only squads let you use without calling you fail). But another thing to add for the cheapness to wizzies is wellspring, and double/triple sparking. which will give you far more mp then it would a cleric. another thing on doing that is that wizzies get more chi then clerics pretty much every way possible. only 1 skill for clerics will give 20 chi, which is chromatic beam (which is 970mp per cast). while I don't know wizzies chi gain off top of my head, I do know the most basic pyrogram is 15 chi... think about continuing listing chi numbers but that sounds really boring.

But just as a case in point, when doing TT's with Rule while I was just regular ih (not demon only lvl 10) and rule was DD'ing (who I'd assume has most his celestial skills) I had used 5 event pots, before rule had to use 1. Largely because of wellspring and sparking.

your forgetting that when wizards attack their mana recovery is halved while the clerics is not since its just heals unless you use blue bubble.

Baalbak - Dreamweaver

Sandaili - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I was in a BH with a barb who died in a few seconds on Zimo. Good thing I had herc. And he was being healed. In this climate of barbs who have like 0 training and skill....make sure you got a good veno with you. He was being healed, too, and just died.

Thinking he was a good barb I simply got close to the boss and pulled, ran down past the barb. He doesn't take aggro, I take a few hits, and then finally he takes aggro. Had I known he was going to run and not attack right away I would have pulled from far away, rebuffed pet......I guess I'm going to from now on since you're right...a lot of barbs are like...totally lacking experience or skills (literally) for their levels.

no alacrity? alacrity not leveled enough?
true, all those FB 59 bosses pack a punch every 10 seconds with their magic attacks. Even so, I was able to tank my own fb59 at level with just one cleric (literally that was all it was on Zimo - me fighting and my sister cleric of same level healing me).

When I go into Requiem of the Wraiths and we get to the Lord of Percussion, half the squads that I am with, even if theres an 8x cleric in there, will say "start BB right away otherwise Baalbak will die in just a couple seconds". Now.. I rarely run without my sister, and she's my main cleric at all times. We know what works and what doesnt for us. I just alacrity and autowin, don't even wait for preheals. then I chuckle when people are spazzing that she's doing IHB instead of BB. Yes.. Lord of percussion can even be single cleric'd by a good barb - I'm talking 1-3 high mode with only a level 69 cleric.

saphire1960 wrote: »

your forgetting that when wizards attack their mana recovery is halved while the clerics is not since its just heals unless you use blue bubble.

not all clerics sit around and spam IHB though. I know a few that can keep me alive while throwing in seals, tempests, etc. b:victory

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

saphire1960 wrote: »

your forgetting that when wizards attack their mana recovery is halved while the clerics is not since its just heals unless you use blue bubble.

However some clerics toss in seals or attacks every now and then too.

Mrvate - Heavens Tear

saphire1960 wrote: »

your forgetting that when wizards attack their mana recovery is halved while the clerics is not since its just heals unless you use blue bubble.

^^ as you probably heard clerics aren't necissarily not in battle mode which cuts recovery rate. there are many times I don't attack and still find myself with cut mana, because you will also get cut regen if a mob even targets you even if it doesn't attack you. Example, on Warlurd in 2-x almost everytime I bb for that I'll have cut regen. Because I'd heal the veno via bb making him attack me, even though barb may catch him before I'm hit I'm still with cut regen till we kill him all 4 times.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

Just did TT 1-2 with my barb, and then my cleric.
Barbs repair cost was pretty similar to my clerics MP pot/food costs.

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just did TT 1-2 with my barb, and then my cleric.
Barbs repair cost was pretty similar to my clerics MP pot/food costs.

You make this thread up and in game as I saw on WC wanted and experienced Barb with a Charm to do RB Gamma.i guess what you want is what you get if they have no charm give them one if they are very experienced.Otherwords I would take what I can get.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^^ as you probably heard clerics aren't necissarily not in battle mode which cuts recovery rate. there are many times I don't attack and still find myself with cut mana, because you will also get cut regen if a mob even targets you even if it doesn't attack you. Example, on Warlurd in 2-x almost everytime I bb for that I'll have cut regen. Because I'd heal the veno via bb making him attack me, even though barb may catch him before I'm hit I'm still with cut regen till we kill him all 4 times.

.......Oracle? How else could you not know that using BB automatically cuts your regen to 25% as soon as you use it. Every cleric should have at least noticed that much way earlier than lvl 90.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »

You make this thread up and in game as I saw on WC wanted and experienced Barb with a Charm to do RB Gamma.i guess what you want is what you get if they have no charm give them one if they are very experienced.Otherwords I would take what I can get.

Why should I give a barb a whole damn charm to come Gamma?
HP charm goes for about 1.2mil on Sanctuary server.
Now, should I be patient and find a barb that is already charmed that is willing to Gamma?
Or should I pay my own coins for a single barb for one simple run?

Mrvate - Heavens Tear

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

.......Oracle? How else could you not know that using BB automatically cuts your regen to 25% as soon as you use it. Every cleric should have at least noticed that much way earlier than lvl 90.

sorry, your right. and no I didn't oracle... it can be hard to know weather your in battle mode because of bb or because of aoe, since you usually only use it for aoe boss's.

HolyPixie - Heavens Tear

Wow correct ur tread to most players and the fake friends ofcourse

MystiMonk - Sanctuary

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why should I give a barb a whole damn charm to come Gamma?
HP charm goes for about 1.2mil on Sanctuary server.
Now, should I be patient and find a barb that is already charmed that is willing to Gamma?
Or should I pay my own coins for a single barb for one simple run?

It is because you asked for it an experienced Barb with a Charm.They could be saving their for grinding or doing BHs with it in exchange for doing RB they will need a replacement if charmed at all.I don't see most Barbs with a charm on even us Clerics.What I am saying here is not all experienced Barbs have charms.

HayleyW - Heavens Tear

I understand the 300k repair bills barb have, but try being a cleric. One day i burned over 12 mill in charms!!!!! so 300k is nothing. And people bish when their charm ticks once. Try being a high level cleric for 1 day. Doing BH, 2 FF, TW (front line at that, 3 hour tw(used nearly 2 of each charm))& a TT run.

do the math a simple squad heal=1k mp i have 9k mp so 3 squad heals and about 15 seconds=tick, if only squad heal happens. With me most likely I'm casting other heals and attacks. In Fb & ff runs. So my charm will tick ever 10 seconds.

Chefstabs - Heavens Tear

Yes ive done rb with no charm but it takes practice or use grab meat ive do bh all the time wined unwined doesn t bother me but you need a good cleric with you thats whty my gf is one if i see free wine yay free save money barbs have repair costs clerics mana iam pure tank build of 16333hp soo i dont worry to often