Should I charge to go and Res people?

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Comments

  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Actually based on your 'facts' my statement is not an opinion. Your 'facts' have made it clear you know very little about clerics.

    You cruisin for a bruisin dude.

    A simple "because so and so" would've been enough. If you want to turn this personal i'm willing to oblige.

    That's two times you insult me unprovoked.
  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I've actually not insulted you yet - merely pointed out that your knowledge of clerics isn't what you think it is.

    I respect your right to have an opinion - but if you choose to make blanket statements backed up by 'factual' proof, please provide facts instead of opinions.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    The implication being i shoot my mouth off about things i'm ignorant about. Yea, that's an insult man.

    And no, it wasn't a blanket statement, i provided an explanation which you didn't. Do you want me to prove i have knowledge of clerics? Want me to list their skills alphabetically? You're suposed to provide an argument i can disprove, burden of proof doesn't work on the premise of me backing up unchallenged claims.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    The flames are mainly 1 or 2 people.

    The rest of us are talking about waffles and juice.

    Waffles...

    Waffles...?

    Waffles! Pass those things over! D<
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I love your siggy b:dirty

    D'aaaw thanks. XD

    (Totally not off topic. Nope. Totally not. It's your imagination. Also, to whoever posted that video, you are full of win. Great video.)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The implication being i shoot my mouth off about things i'm ignorant about. Yea, that's an insult man.

    And no, it wasn't a blanket statement, i provided an explanation which you didn't. Do you want me to prove i have knowledge of clerics? Want me to list their skills alphabetically? You're suposed to provide an argument i can disprove, burden of proof doesn't work on the premise of me backing up unchallenged claims.

    What level is your cleric?
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

    Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
    Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Something tells me this thread will be locked soon... b:sad
  • Therasell - Heavens Tear
    Therasell - Heavens Tear Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    personally, i wouldnt think of charging someone for a rez. im glad to do it for my friends since they compensate by helping me out when i ask for it. if theres someone dead on the ground asking for a rez when im right by them i also dont have a problem with that, and wouldnt think of asking for coins because if it was me asking for a rez i wouldnt want to be charged for it...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Want me to list their skills alphabetically? You're suposed to provide an argument i can disprove, burden of proof doesn't work on the premise of me backing up unchallenged claims.

    Want me to list the skills of any class in the game alphabetically? No problem.

    My issue is that your statements about cleric abilities compared to veno abilities clearly shows you have no real experience as a cleric.

    Should I log onto my low level veno and go into a thread telling clerics what they can do? Shes only level 62 but I could still have some fun . . .

    If you have experience either post from you cleric, or at least from a decently leveled veno. . .
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Face/Palm.

    ~S
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Want me to list the skills of any class in the game alphabetically? No problem.

    My issue is that your statements about cleric abilities compared to veno abilities clearly shows you have no real experience as a cleric.

    Should I log onto my low level veno and go into a thread telling clerics what they can do? Shes only level 62 but I could still have some fun . . .

    If you have experience either post from you cleric, or at least from a decently leveled veno. . .

    1. This is my posting avatar, for whatever reasons i choose not to post on alts (yes, i've been level capped for a couple of months but this char i consider my main). It would seemingly not make a difference as my cleric's a 61 which you obviously would not consider high level. However level makes no difference as far as i'm concerned since any noob can post from a 9x alt at current leveling rates. How i manage my levels or my chars is none of your bussiness.

    2. I stand by what i said. DD being the default role of all classes i hardly think it can be considered in a definition of "jack of all trades", except if on the same level as DD specialists (leaving TB out since their actual capabilities remain unproven, even if no longer debated) meaning archers, wizzies and (appropiately geared) BMs. Yes, i mean dps. Same thing for debuffer, barbs have a 30% armor break but this isn't a role they're considered specialists in so i hardly think cleric debuffs (also available to veno) can be used on the definition. Since clerics cannot be considered tankers anymore than any other class wearing LA or AA the role i wouldn't consider for them. Plume shot as an argument for phys dmg dealers would also have to consider wizzies for the role. Melee is not feasible at all... Any argument that could be applied to other classes i wouldn't consider legitimate however, as if all classes are "jack of all trades" the term has no meaning and should not be used. Now disprove my logic or present an alternate argument.

    3, I've gone out of my way to remain civil yet you continue with personal attacks. I don't mean you to grant me any credit for it but this is fair warning. If you want to turn this into flames you can be my guest.
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It would seemingly not make a difference as my cleric's a 61 which you obviously would not consider high level.

    At level 61 you haven't experienced enough TT or FF to know what we are explaining. ijs.
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

    Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
    Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    At level 61 you haven't experienced enough TT or FF to know what we are explaining. ijs.

    Do explain please, neither my cleric nor this veno are my highest level alt. Esoteric references to high level wisdom i'm rather wary of. Do you find a lot of clerics with unleveled res at 9x?
  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    2. I stand by what i said. DD being the default role of all classes i hardly think it can be considered in a definition of "jack of all trades", except if on the same level as DD specialists (leaving TB out since their actual capabilities remain unproven, even if no longer debated) meaning archers, wizzies and (appropiately geared) BMs. Yes, i mean dps.

    Outside of TT, I will put you to shame on DPS at a similar level. And yes that includes your pet.

    Same thing for debuffer, barbs have a 30% armor break but this isn't a role they're considered specialists in so i hardly think cleric debuffs (also available to veno) can be used on the definition.

    You DO realize clerics have not only armor break but also magic defense debuffs, on top of sleep and stuns? Where do those last 3 fall into in the line of veno skills?

    Since clerics cannot be considered tankers anymore than any other class wearing LA or AA the role i wouldn't consider for them.

    Have you ever actually watched a good cleric tank? Of course I can't do what a barb or a good BM can, but I can still easily tank most bosses outside of fb69 without batting an eye.

    Plume shot as an argument for phys dmg dealers would also have to consider wizzies for the role.

    You DO realize wizzies have no non-elemental/phsyical attacks until they reach well higher levels and are aoeing?

    Melee is not feasible at all...

    I could easily build a 'melee' cleric in the sense that you consider a 'melee veno'

    Any argument that could be applied to other classes i wouldn't consider legitimate however, as if all classes are "jack of all trades" the term has no meaning and should not be used. Now disprove my logic or present an alternate argument.

    You used the term first. Please present a real argument saying venos are all around better using real facts other than your opinion and what other low levels have told you about clerics.

    3, I've gone out of my way to remain civil yet you continue with personal attacks. I don't mean you to grant me any credit for it but this is fair warning. If you want to turn this into flames you can be my guest.

    I have not yet come close to flaming you. I've simply countered your arguments and suggested you don't know as much about other classes as you think you do - and you've done nothing to prove me wrong.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Do explain please, neither my cleric nor this veno are my highest level alt. Esoteric references to high level wisdom i'm rather wary of. Do you find a lot of clerics with unleveled res at 9x?

    Ofcourse not all clerics have level 10 res at level 9x, what kind of a question is that?
    If you haven't done a good amount of TT/FF on your cleric you cant understand what we mean, its as simple as that.
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

    Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
    Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    My cleric isn't getting the Res skill leveled past 1 for a while. I would rather concentrate on my other skills and save upping res till much later (if at all).

    Granted, I JUST got high enough with my cleric to acquire the skill. My view on that may change later, or not, but for now, my feelings are pretty simple. People don't want to pay or compensate me for my time and effort, I'm not going to bother leveling the skill they refuse to pay for.

    If I am out and about. No random buffs, sorry. you want my buffs. Pay me.

    If I am in a squad, that is a different story, you will receive my buffs for free, we are working on a mutual goal. But as for the Res.. use a rez and guardian scroll you scrub. Then you have no xp loss at all, and you don't have to worry about it as you are to cheap and lazy to bother compensating me for MY time and effort to gain and level a skill that is useless to me.

    Don't like it? Suck it up cause I don't care.

    ~S
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I have not yet come close to flaming you. I've simply countered your arguments and suggested you don't know as much about other classes as you think you do - and you've done nothing to prove me wrong.

    First. The jack of all trades term i didn't bring into this conversation either. It was brought up by some other cleric and it was to him that my comment was addressed. Furthermore this isn't venos vs clerics. Venos can choose builds for any armor type they want and remain competent, also they can both melee and use magic. An HA veno can actually get a better dmg from melee attacks than using caster skills. This is mostly because of fox form. Clerics cannot wear HA and remain competent, nor can they manage anything resembling decent damage output from melee attacks. No you cannot build a melee cleric that will come in any way close to the capabilities of an HA melee foxform build. This is my argument for venos being jack of all trades, MASTER OF NONE.

    Second. Yes, i'm well aware clerics posses debuffs (sleep and stun i would consider effects) which is exactly why i pointed to barbs as an example. The debuffs of both barbs and clerics are superior to those of veno when individually considered, but it isn't their primary role to apply them even if competent players may be expected to do so in some scenarios. "Same thing..." clerics may manage a better dps output than veno but once again this is not their primary role. As i said, and you did not disprove, DD is the default role of all classes. Same goes for debuffer. To prove jack of all trade status you would have to demonstrate performance on par with specialists. You have left my claim about dps go unchallenged, as for debuffer you have nothing that approaches high level venos (Myriad, Sage/Demon Venomous and Ironwood).

    Third. A wizzie has Earth Barrier and venos have foxform. I specifically stated ability to tank anymore than other AA or LA classes (for archers i'll say they've managed some terrific tanking jobs through range/sparking). You would have to prove abilities beyond other classes wearing the same armor and upgrades/refines. You haven't.

    Fourth. I've stated nothing but established wisdom or known fact. I used a standard that clerics don't meet to proclaim veno "jack of all trades". I also examined an alternate route (roles) on which i'll admit even venos don't quite cut it, even if they do in fact play said roles.

    Unlike you i don't take for granted my arguments can't be refuted, and you don't see me address you gloating that i have beaten you. Look at my posting history. I've apologized sincerely and acknowledged my errors when they were proven to me, yea, even after taking a lot of flaming. Can you say the same?
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ofcourse not all clerics have level 10 res at level 9x, what kind of a question is that?
    If you haven't done a good amount of TT/FF on your cleric you cant understand what we mean, its as simple as that.

    Cool, let's leave it at that. Yours does remain unfounded (backed by neither argument nor evidence) opinion (your own point of view).
  • Zilco - Heavens Tear
    Zilco - Heavens Tear Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'm 64 atm and my rez is level 8... if it wasnt for ppl complaining when i told them it was lvl1 itd still be lvl1. i plan on getting lvl10 but ppl dont really notice lvl8, or havent yet anyway.
  • Tapion_ - Dreamweaver
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think we should stop for a sec and ask how this thread got 230 posts in one day o.0
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  • FatherTed - Dreamweaver
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,723 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I think we should stop for a sec and ask how this thread got 230 posts in one day o.0

    Basically, silly people saying silly things, thinking they know what they are talking about.

    Also waffles and juice.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks for the sig Ophida :3
  • StormHydra - Sanctuary
    StormHydra - Sanctuary Posts: 2,221 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »
    (i'm more the nice type as well)
    Saitada - Sanctuary

    Omg
    Rofl.
    10char
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    |Active: Coalescence - Lost City, Wizard|
    |Inactive: StormHydra - Sanctuary, Archer|
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  • ClericNico - Dreamweaver
    ClericNico - Dreamweaver Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rez for free....with lvl 1 rez. b:chuckle

    That'll teach em lol.

    Seriously tho, I don't charge for rez (yes it's maxed) unless ppl abuse the privelage (no, it's not your right to be rezzed...how often do u think I get rezzed?) or i gotta fly all the way across the map (i don't port unless someone pays those fees).

    For those i do charge, how much i charge is based on how badly they abuse it. If i'm rezzing someone 10 times a day, i have no qualms about charging them 50k. If i'm rezzing someone once a day, 10k is more appropriate i think.

    Before u start flaming and QQing, i don't charge to be an ****, but to discourage people from abusing clerics. It's hard enough to level and make money that i don't wanna be spending half my day flying around rezzing people. In my faction, we have a shortage of clerics, so there's usually something else i need to be doing.

    @ FatherTed...are u sharing ur waffles and juice?? :)
    Sometimes, when I'm bored, I blow myself up. b:victory

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    ClericNico: 7x Cleric, Hate2Love Executor
    _Poe_: 7x Barbarian, Tormented Executor (Hate2Love Alt Faction)
    Durzo_Blint: 6x Blademaster, Tormented

    The cleric formerly known as the veno known as Sheeeba. b:chuckle
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Omg
    Rofl.
    10char

    In game silly. On the forums I am not as nice :P

    ~S
  • Must - Lost City
    Must - Lost City Posts: 555 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    JadianWings - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm a cleric. And and as we all know, no matter what race u are, we all need a cleric! I am constantly being asked to go here and there res'ing people!b:victory Which.. please note.... I am happy to do!b:pleased

    However!b:sad I do find it hard to maintain my mp pots/charms etc, and end up spending a fortune on doing so.

    The other day i was asked to go into a fb and res someone. Not a problem! I went, gladly! And as i was about to leave after the sucessful res, one of the squad members traded me some money! I was surprised and a tad embarassed! BUT, it allowed me to buy my replacement pots.

    So I got to thinking. Does that happen alot? Should I ask for payment?

    I honestly dont know what the correct/poliet/accepted methods are in this situation.

    So please, let me know your opinions... and if u want to donate to HELP SAVE YOUR CLERIC FUND... let me knowb:laugh


    Should i charge for tanking bosses dahhh troll post
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I am glad it seem because of these thread now . . .
    threads about cleric now become more active than usual b:thanks
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    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • DrDrakken - Lost City
    DrDrakken - Lost City Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    JadianWings - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm a cleric. And and as we all know, no matter what race u are, we all need a cleric! I am constantly being asked to go here and there res'ing people! Which.. please note.... I am happy to do!

    However!b:sad I do find it hard to maintain my mp pots/charms etc, and end up spending a fortune on doing so.

    The other day i was asked to go into a fb and res someone. Not a problem! I went, gladly! And as i was about to leave after the sucessful res, one of the squad members traded me some money! I was surprised and a tad embarassed! BUT, it allowed me to buy my replacement pots.

    So I got to thinking. Does that happen alot? Should I ask for payment?

    I honestly dont know what the correct/poliet/accepted methods are in this situation.

    So please, let me know your opinions... and if u want to donate to HELP SAVE YOUR CLERIC FUND... let me know

    um, i'm not sure, but ress doesnt take up enough mp to not regenerate in less than a min rightb:surrenderand doesnt tick charmsb:surrender why'd you need to use pots for the random ress someone asks forb:shocked
    [SIGPIC]T.T[/SIGPIC]
    (best i could do T_T)
    b:cryYou were the best CM everb:cry

    August 12 - I'm officially 15 b:pleased
  • MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear
    MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,377 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    DrDrakken - Lost City wrote: »
    um, i'm not sure, but ress doesnt take up enough mp to not regenerate in less than a min rightb:surrenderand doesnt tick charmsb:surrender why'd you need to use pots for the random ress someone asks forb:shocked

    What she mean is pot used to reach the dead person that need rez.
    And time used to rez that person can be used for something else
    because she said she was called to that FB to rez someone b:pleased
    Good thing they give you payment for coming there =D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Sorry i speak engrish b:chuckle
    Nickname doesn't have anything to do with sailor but related to a folklore
    Use search, it was your best friends to avoid many suffering in internet...
  • /NiKi - Lost City
    /NiKi - Lost City Posts: 306 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Must - Lost City wrote: »
    Should i charge for tanking bosses dahhh troll post

    yeah u should,so as venos with herc.
    tanking takes much longer then revive plus barbs spend more on repairs then clerics on 1 mp pot for rez,
    so i guess barbs should be most expensive b:victory
  • Promivius - Dreamweaver
    Promivius - Dreamweaver Posts: 278 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    @Must.

    If you tank the boss with me sitting in the back doing nothing having a dorrito etc yes you can charge and you should charge.

    In a squad you can set terms if you want to. Just keep in mind I might set terms too.
    In squads I don't charge for MP-pots or time spent. I don't ask for compensation for EXP lost as the squad is going for a common goal.

    Thing is rezzing a person is not a common goal to me if that person is not in my squad/faction.
    I speak for myself. My opinions are my own.
    Assuming I speak for others is therefor void.
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Basically, silly people saying silly things, thinking they know what they are talking about.

    Also waffles and juice.

    Ok, silly people saying silly things... YOU. I'm through taking your abuse. You have made nothing that resembles a serious argument, and have only indulged in backhanded namecalling. I take this thread as proof you have nothing but hot air to back your statements and are unwilling to have a discusssion. It seems obvious you feel entitled to opinions born only of the conceited contempt whatever ingame "acomplishments" you have managed have provided you.

    I gave you every chance and have yet to find anything resembling intelligence in your posts. Why don't you STFU? Seriously, you contribute nothing except unoriginal attempts at whatever lame gibberish passes as wit to you. You're nothing but internet white noise.

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