Should I charge to go and Res people?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

I didn't take time to read all eight pages, but I get the gist of what this thread is about. Clerics are the only class in the game with the ability to revive people, and because of that we have to take time out of our day to go and bring some dumbass that died back to life.

I'm not a very kind hearted person. I don't go and revive some random person I've never met, unless they offer me at least 100k simply because I don't like being called upon to revive you. The few people I will take time out of my day for are on my friend's list, if you're not one of them sorry but you're out of luck.

It's not very hard to stay alive in this game, it really isn't. Know your class, know your limits, and know when to run. It's all very simple, I have a character of every class at least level 30, and never have I died on any of them when I play unless I have to go afk and forget to fly up.

There is no excuse why you should die unless you're just plain stupid, and if you do die please don't expect the Cleric you ask to just drop everything for you because you're dead. WE are the ones that rarely get revived, I once lost 13% in one FC run because my squad couldn't do their jobs. I only stayed because it was a training run, but honestly... that's ****.

So the next time you want to whine about your pathetic 1% xp loss, think about what some Clerics have to go through. You lost 1% in an hour, we can lose so much more unless we spend money on scrolls. But why should we? Other classes don't have to, but oh right! they have a Cleric waiting and willing to revive them don't they?

Anyway... I'm starting to rant so I'll end my post, the moral of the story:
Stop dying so much and learn to play your class...

Promivius - Dreamweaver

Lol you do have a point there Zanryu about clerics not getting rezzed alot.

Btw MANray you forget that leveling the revive skill takes cash/spirit-pionts aka time.
So saying flat-out that compensation is petty/cheap is unrespectfull if you dont even respond with a "Thanks" atleast.

Same can be said about any of the buff skills we can provide.
I for one don't really buff anyone outside of my squad unless I feel like it.
Especially in the field when I am grinding. Buffing random people is lose of time to me as the MP's lost equals time lost me not being able to grind myself.

You presist in asking for buffs = mana pots as payment, again it's that simple.

Quick edit/add:

Why are skills equal to me and on others??
I like to see skills I cast work better on me then on others. Selfish maybe.. it would be a far bigger incentive to "up" those skills.
I mean you can live with L10 buffs as player just fine. Getting group buff skills are not mandatory to solo-grinding cleric now is it?

MANray_ - Sanctuary

I always thank any player when they help me. I do take it for granted any sort of decent player will thank a cleric ressing them. I meant material compensation. As for ressing requiring sp/coins to level up, all of our skills do. Res is a tool clerics require to do their job competently. What would you think of a veno that didn't skill lending hand or bramble on the "it does nothing for me" logic?

Nexdonum - Lost City

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I always thank any player when they help me. I do take it for granted any sort of decent player will thank a cleric ressing them. I meant material compensation. As for ressing requiring sp/coins to level up, all of our skills do. Res is a tool clerics require to do their job competently. What would you think of a veno that didn't skill lending hand or bramble on the "it does nothing for me" logic?

But the Resurrection skill is the only "it does nothing for me" skill that has any intrinsic value. Lending hand and bramble are nice, but would you rather you not have Lending hand/Bramble when you need it, or Resurrect?


b:victory

Saitada - Sanctuary

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

I always thank any player when they help me. I do take it for granted any sort of decent player will thank a cleric ressing them. I meant material compensation. As for ressing requiring sp/coins to level up, all of our skills do. Res is a tool clerics require to do their job competently. What would you think of a veno that didn't skill lending hand or bramble on the "it does nothing for me" logic?

Bramble does something for the Veno, lending hand on the other hand takes something ( a spark) AWAY from the veno, and so technically, does nothing positive for them. Clerics also have more skills designed to help others as well (buffs). All other classes have 1 or maybe 2 squad based buffs, or a single castable buff they can toss on others.

So while the skills clerics have may also benefit themselves when they use them, the reality is, they are wanted by most other players ALL THE TIME.

~S

Promivius - Dreamweaver

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Enjoy your trip to town then, or do what I do, and have res scrolls and Guardian scrolls on you at all times (and my wife has a 6x cleric, and I STILL do this).

~S

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I didn't take time to read all eight pages, but I get the gist of what this thread is about. Clerics are the only class in the game with the ability to revive people, and because of that we have to take time out of our day to go and bring some dumbass that died back to life.

I'm not a very kind hearted person. I don't go and revive some random person I've never met, unless they offer me at least 100k simply because I don't like being called upon to revive you. The few people I will take time out of my day for are on my friend's list, if you're not one of them sorry but you're out of luck.

It's not very hard to stay alive in this game, it really isn't. Know your class, know your limits, and know when to run. It's all very simple, I have a character of every class at least level 30, and never have I died on any of them when I play unless I have to go afk and forget to fly up.

There is no excuse why you should die unless you're just plain stupid, and if you do die please don't expect the Cleric you ask to just drop everything for you because you're dead. WE are the ones that rarely get revived, I once lost 13% in one FC run because my squad couldn't do their jobs. I only stayed because it was a training run, but honestly... that's ****.

So the next time you want to whine about your pathetic 1% xp loss, think about what some Clerics have to go through. You lost 1% in an hour, we can lose so much more unless we spend money on scrolls. But why should we? Other classes don't have to, but oh right! they have a Cleric waiting and willing to revive them don't they?

Anyway... I'm starting to rant so I'll end my post, the moral of the story:
Stop dying so much and learn to play your class...

The rez-skill is not needed at all for any cleric to do his/her job right.
Especially if said cleric made sure to have the heal skill at a level required to be of use in groups.

Again if a cleric chooses to go at it solo throughout his/her time in game it would make no difference at all. Nada, zero.

Jonnykins - Dreamweaver

Clerics are like women, they should do as they are told imo

Bowlinbob - Lost City

Jonnykins - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Clerics are like women, they should do as they are told imo

ah hem >:O

just cuz i wear a robe/dress and like my glowing/sparkly self doesnt mean im like a woman x~x

RedsRose - Lost City

Jonnykins - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Clerics are like women, they should do as they are told imo

Ummmm.....as a woman and a Cleric I can say: No...we don't b:bye

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Nexdonum - Lost City wrote: »

But the Resurrection skill is the only "it does nothing for me" skill that has any intrinsic value. Lending hand and bramble are nice, but would you rather you not have Lending hand/Bramble when you need it, or Resurrect?


b:victory

Dude, really... you so missed the point... Lending Hand is something of a discretionary skill (it shouldn't always be, eg cleric using BB) but Bramble is expected. It may not be the most important skill but it's considered a part of what any veno should bring to a squad, and whoever's tanking has good reason to request or even demand it. It's like a cleric that can't heal. You're expected to be able to do certain things for a squad whatever your class is. Archers are expected to use Sharpened Tooth on a boss. Barbs are expected to spam Flesh Ream at a decent rate. And really you think a Barb won't get kicked out of squad the second he confesses he doesn't have Beast king's inspiration? or a BM if they don't have Golden Bell? And they should be because it would be proof enough of the player being unable to competently play their class.

A cleric should always have his Resurection at as high a level as they can afford, just as well as his other basic skills and buffs. Clerics are a support class and if they represent themselves as healers when squadding this should include ability to res. It's the one reason other players, like myself, will sacrifice ourselves to keep the cleric alive at any cost. Yea, you bet i'll be pissed if in an instance run i take a bullet for the cleric and find out he wont res me or that he wants to charge me for it...

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

If I was like a woman I wouldn't even be on this game, I'd be in my bed with the door locked playing with myself.

...oh wait... I do that alreadyb:quiet

Promivius - Dreamweaver

Bold statement to say that clerics HAVE to up there rez-skill at all.

You are NOT required to take a bullet when it comes to that either.
I refuse to see myself as purely support. LOL, the idea itself is odd to say the least.

A squad is required to support all within that squad period. But this is only true for squads.
Granted I am not even mid-level as a character but time will tell me if I am "support-only"..

I am jack-of-all-trade. I like that definition way better.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Clerics take the biggest hit in xp loss in all squad, why should you be different?

Barb agro's too many mobs and die's, the the others follow and then the cleric. That doesn't matter though because the cleric can just go to town and then come ress us all, 0.1% is nothing compared to the 1% clerics take. Sure we could pay out of are **** for GS but that would mean you have to supply them to us, we die because of you, so you can keep us in GS so we dont lose any xp. (Excluding idiot clerics ofcourse). At the end of the day clerics rarely get a ress so if i had of felt when i started what i feel now i would of left ress at level 1.

IMO if i go to town you should all go to town, why should i lose xp because you screwed up?

(You = Every other class).

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Everyone should pull their own weight in a squad. A cleric that takes chances with his life is gambling on a party wipe, so let me make a bold statement; YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY YOUR CLASS. Period.

If you think everyone watches for their own in a squad you're sorely mistaken. There are priorities. Keeping the cleric alive is number one. Should be for everyone, including the cleric. If you don't have a decent level res then you're just spitting in the face of any player that may sacrifice to keep you alive.

Edit;@Hunter; As a veno i consider it my duty to always town with cleric as bodyguard if barb remains alive. Your argument doesn't work with me. If i remain alive i'll head towards the instance's entrance to help the cleric with patrols or respawns. It's not only the cleric that "sacrifices" when things go wrong. And trust me, given my role it's much more common for me to die from a cleric's mistake than the other way around.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Clerics take the biggest hit in xp loss in all squad, why should you be different?

Barb agro's too many mobs and die's, the the others follow and then the cleric. That doesn't matter though because the cleric can just go to town and then come ress us all, 0.1% is nothing compared to the 1% clerics take. Sure we could pay out of are **** for GS but that would mean you have to supply them to us, we die because of you, so you can keep us in GS so we dont lose any xp. (Excluding idiot clerics ofcourse). At the end of the day clerics rarely get a ress so if i had of felt when i started what i feel now i would of left ress at level 1.

IMO if i go to town you should all go to town, why should i lose xp because you screwed up?

(You = Every other class).

I couldn't have said it better myself, I'm glad someone actually understands what Clerics have to put up with... 9/10 times I die it's not even my fault and I'm the one towning. It's as if they don't care about death because the Cleric will rez them, and that's the attitude I hate because unlike them we lose 1%, they can die 5 times and still not lose as much as us.

There are a few times when people are nice enough to give me GS and i gladly accept them, but those times are EXTREMELY rare. If majority of the people I ran instances with weren't people I knew I'd make them town. Like I did a few weeks ago with a random squadb:laugh

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Everyone should pull their own weight in a squad. A cleric that takes chances with his life is gambling on a party wipe, so let me make a bold statement; YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY YOUR CLASS. Period.

If you think everyone watches for their own in a squad you're sorely mistaken. There are priorities. Keeping the cleric alive is number one. Should be for everyone, including the cleric. If you don't have a decent level res then you're just spitting in the face of any player that may sacrifice to keep you alive.

Edit;@Hunter; As a veno i consider it my duty to always town with cleric as bodyguard if barb remains alive. Your argument doesn't work with me. If i remain alive i'll head towards the instance's entrance to help the cleric with patrols or respawns. It's not only the cleric that "sacrifices" when things go wrong. And trust me, given my role it's much more common for me to die from a cleric's mistake than the other way around.

Rubbish.
When a cleric dies its usually down to someone taking agro, failed lure or idiocy. Yeah we should be number one priority, if you fail and we take a 1% hit so should you, i don't understand why people believe they have a right to level 10 resurrection. If you die you did something wrong, so level 1 ress is your punishment. How many times to people spit in the face of a cleric?

You clearly cannot cope with the arguments being put forward so for that i apologies but in all fairness clerics have the most difficult squad role followed by a barb and veno's ofc have the easiest squad role. So please, level a cleric to idk say mid 80s perhaps and then come back and tell me you still don't understand my argument. Once again you get a ress so your point about its not only us that sacrifices is complete rubbish. Given your role? You shouldnt be taking damage to do, if your taking damaged you screwed up not us (exception being aoe's and attacking harpies in FF).

Promivius - Dreamweaver

Again a bold statement MANray and again not founded on how I play my cleric...

In the best interest of a squad it is handy that any an all squad member do their job to the best of their ability to make the group work.
The job of healing characters befalls the cleric.
The job of keeping the mobs at bay is the job of the character elected to tank (be that the barb/BM/etc etc.).
If a group has more then one veno in it it befalls both the veno's to keep the tanker-pet alive if one of the veno is elected head tank-pet owner in said squad.

If I think I can get away with debuffing mobs while still healing up members I will do so as debuffing might help the squad too.

Jonnykins - Dreamweaver

To be serious it should taken as the situation arises.

I don't like writing much, but if you have to go out of your way **** them.

tweakz

In addition to charging people for res, squads should charge them for wasting their time when they just lay there.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

It is your choice whether you charge people for a resurrection or not. After all, it is your mana, your time, and therefore wholly your decision on whether people have to pay you for your services. There are some people who will voluntarily pay you themselves, and there are other people who will refuse to take your res if you demand they pay you.

There is one thing everybody needs to remember in this thread.

Under no circumstances does a cleric have to give you a resurrection. Ever. They are not your personal slaves, they do not level up their resurrection skill before everything else so that when you die for whatever reason, they can resurrect you with the least damage to your EXP as possible. And if you think that clerics do have to do this, you are very sorely mistaken and might want to consider getting off your high horse.

If the cleric feels you don't deserve a res, they do not have to give it to you. Clerics are not bound by an oath to resurrect any dead person they see and if you think they somehow are you are stupid and I suggest you put down the computer.

Just because you expect something of somebody it does not mean they will live up to your expectations, especially if they are unreasonable. If you kill yourself stupidly, getting aggro of too many mobs and kicking the bucket, no the cleric doesn't have to give you a res. If you manage to wipe out a whole squad, the cleric can resurrect everybody but you and would not be in the wrong for doing so. You would just think them an *******, but hey I'm sure they think the same of you causing a squad wipe and making them lose more EXP.

Nexdonum - Lost City

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Dude, really... you so missed the point... Lending Hand is something of a discretionary skill (it shouldn't always be, eg cleric using BB) but Bramble is expected. It may not be the most important skill but it's considered a part of what any veno should bring to a squad, and whoever's tanking has good reason to request or even demand it. It's like a cleric that can't heal. You're expected to be able to do certain things for a squad whatever your class is. Archers are expected to use Sharpened Tooth on a boss. Barbs are expected to spam Flesh Ream at a decent rate. And really you think a Barb won't get kicked out of squad the second he confesses he doesn't have Beast king's inspiration? or a BM if they don't have Golden Bell? And they should be because it would be proof enough of the player being unable to competently play their class.

A cleric should always have his Resurection at as high a level as they can afford, just as well as his other basic skills and buffs. Clerics are a support class and if they represent themselves as healers when squadding this should include ability to res. It's the one reason other players, like myself, will sacrifice ourselves to keep the cleric alive at any cost. Yea, you bet i'll be pissed if in an instance run i take a bullet for the cleric and find out he wont res me or that he wants to charge me for it...

Rofl. I think it's you who has misunderstood me. I have a couple other posts in this thread a few pages back, and I agree with you. In squad there is no doubt, that if you can rez, you should (unless the person who has died is a total jack-****, and other circumstances). I believe that's a given. But the point I was trying to make, in regards to your post, was stating that the buffs/etc you can give to a Cleric, is like the buffs we can already give to everyone. They are up to 30 min buffs, that help in stats for a little bit. But a skill that only Clerics' have, is one that helps a player reacquire the experience lost from death, something that no other class has. It's basically a free GA (at lvl 11). If someone were to take time out of their schedule (remember, time is money) and if the person is going out of their way to save you exp (that unless you had a GA on you) you would otherwise be unable to prevent the loss of, compensation is appreciated. Not required, mind you, but it's one of the only skills that help in a way that is otherwise unattainable (again, barring GA's). Especially when the skill itself is one that can't help the Cleric who has it, but can immensely help another player.




But seriously, it's pretty ignorant to say that a Cleric should always have their Resurrection skill leveled. Granted, a Cleric should keep up with their heals/buffs/etc, I agree. Especially if they squad a lot of their time. But Clerics, like myself, also grind solo. Resurrect isn't that great pre-level 8+, and when you have other things to level up which take priority, it's pretty stupid to say "get the skill that won't help you, but will help only others, even though you will still have to go take an extra dip for the team by losing exp". It's almost like me saying, okay well before this run, you need to give me a few GA's, otherwise no one is getting a rez. It's pointlessly redundant. I've even been reprimanded for not having level 10 Resurrect (prior to even being able to get lvl 10 even, although I have lvl 10 now), so excuse me if my attitude is slightly apprehensive at the fact that not everyone appreciates a Cleric's efforts into saving THEM exp at the Cleric's expense.




Now I'm going off onto a rant, and I don't mean to. TLDR: I agree that in squad a Cleric is expected to resurrect. But also I hope you realize that Cleric's are called from all over, just to rez someone at some point, so it gets tiring, and annoying at times, to keep resurrecting people, with sometimes not even as much as a simple "thank you". If you throw in coin/etc as compensation, awesome. You just probably made yourself a personal resurrection agent, who will probably not expect payment again (although it would be nice again), and who will probably be more likely to come out and rez you again, if you happen to need it.


BTW, are you ever called upon to come use your skill on a person, even without entering squad with them, just to sometimes if you're lucky, get a thanks, and move along again? That's what it's like for Clerics'. Get called upon to come use a single skill, then go back to their business. It can get irritating at times.




b:sad




edit: People need to stop ninja'ing my posts. xD I'm a slow typer, but damn.



Pretty much what they have all said, in conjunction to what I've written.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

tweakz wrote: »

In addition to charging people for res, squads should charge them for wasting their time when they just lay there.

The reason Clerics should charge for Revives is because it is a waste of our time and money to fly/teleport to your location and bring you back to life. When we're in TT/FC/BH squads or anything of that sort, the Cleric is right there and can revive the dead person. However, if the dead person was an idiot and pulled every mob in the room they should town, I would rather not waste the mana to revive them just so the can pull a leroy and get killed again.

When people get revived everytime they die, xp means nothing to them because they lose virtually none of it. That's one of the reasons Clerics get so little respect, especially when we die. We're told to town or that we should have Guardian Scrolls. Scrolls cost money that some of us need to use for other things.

Other classes don't need to waste coin on scrolls, why should we? Learn some teamwork and play better and the Clerics won't be laying there dead. And where did you even come up with the idea that we should pay the squads for being dead? Paying for a rez makes at least a little sense because it's beneficial to someone, why would we pay you for dying when that does nothing but harm our xp?

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The reason Clerics should charge for Revives is because it is a waste of our time and money to fly/teleport to your location and bring you back to life. When we're in TT/FC/BH squads or anything of that sort, the Cleric is right there and can revive the dead person. However, if the dead person was an idiot and pulled every mob in the room they should town, I would rather not waste the mana to revive them just so the can pull a leroy and get killed again.

When people get revived everytime they die, xp means nothing to them because they lose virtually none of it. That's one of the reasons Clerics get so little respect, especially when we die. We're told to town or that we should have Guardian Scrolls. Scrolls cost money that some of us need to use for other things.

Other classes don't need to waste coin on scrolls, why should we? Learn some teamwork and play better and the Clerics won't be laying there dead. And where did you even come up with the idea that we should pay the squads for being dead? Paying for a rez makes at least a little sense because it's beneficial to someone, why would we pay you for dying when that does nothing but harm our xp?

Once again i agree with you b:chuckle
(Ignore what ever Tweakz says, he has never posted anything helpful on the forum, not that ive seen anyway.)

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Once again i agree with you b:chuckle
(Ignore what ever Tweakz says, he has never posted anything helpful on the forum, not that ive seen anyway.)

Seems easy enough.

Promivius - Dreamweaver

Frankly statements made that I am to mandatoraly level the rez-skill grows me horns instead of a bright circle above my head if I were to be exspected to help rez people who made those statements.

RedsRose - Lost City

Keep in mind the higher level you get the higher people think your res should be. Now, you DO NOT have to level res, but keep in mind some people will NOT take you in squads if you do not have level 10 b:surrender

But to all of the above, I agree with many. Clerics are not required to res people and in fact it can be a huge cost.

Think of it this way....

Party Wipe > Cleric loses Doll to save own exp > Res's party with Lvl 11 Res (meaning NO exp loss) > All free exp save and Cleric looses a Doll or their own exp to save the others

So please be somewhat respectful of the fact that those clerics that do not carry dolls lose exp to save your own b:surrender

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

I dunno, I've never charged for a rez on my cleric. And I'm a HA non-support build but I still spent the coin to max it with priority over any other skill. If someone in the squad dies I'll rez them without question. If someone I pass by or is in the area dies or is dead, or a faction member who is a nice person dies, I'll rez them without a question, for free.

But when it comes to flying halfway across the world to rez some random person who added you to their FL simply because you're a cleric and demands immediate aid...nvm payment, I simply refuse.

Promivius - Dreamweaver

Completely agree with you RedRose.

Exspected for sure and I think any cleric who likes to be a jack-of-all-trades will for certain invest into the rez-skill simple as it would follow the logic of being that jack-of-all-trades.

Demanding it is a step too far and that's what I am pointing out as others have made clear too.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

The whole keeping cleric alive premise is based on res and res alone. Failed lures? The only time i've seen a fail lure is when someone jumps the gun using earthflame or a cleric tries with cyclone... If i ever do fail a lure i'll get the mobs away from the squad not like i've seen most fail wannabe pullers do.

I've seen, and increasingly more, party wipes that were in fact the cleric's fault. Like healing the barb before he gets aggro, it's not like Roar is hard to miss. Or trying to play DD. The only reason clerics get away with no one pointing out their mistakes is people don't want to loose clerics mid run. I've seen clerics be patiently encouraged and supported through mistakes that would get any other squad member (except perhaps the barb) kicked out without any consideration. Get off your high horse, clerics as a group are not better at playing the game than any other class. Sometimes squads do wipe because the cleric couldn't do his job, and this sometimes means knowing when to let people die, overruling fail barbs and setting down the law.

I have in no way claimed clerics have it easy but this gives them no right to disrepect others (now venos have the easiest job on a squad? yea, pulling fast and efficiently through 69 is a cakewalk...). You guys talk about punishment for people not doing their job but what about when they die because they do? Just take it? I town with clerics a lot because the barb or sometimes even BMs can't be bothered to escort them through a dungeon. Don't talk to me about how you always pay for other mistakes, i've seen plenty of clerics making bad judgement calls once the tank is down, and it's frustrating to have a cleric complaint about how they died when the whole squad sacrificed to give them a chance to escape they didn't take. We all die in this game, you only get away with complaining about it because people can't afford to ditch you even when you're wrong.

And take a stroll down the lowbie areas. I guarantee half the people asking for a res are clerics themselves...

Edit; Just to make it clear, i'm talking bout squad work. I started my posting in this thread by stating that i consider pathetic anyone who lays dead asking for a res. I never ask any of my friends, clerics or otherwise, to waste their time if there's nothing in it for them (culti bosses are an exception, but i help others with theirs as much as i can). I have NEVER asked for a res when on the field. NEVER.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

The whole keeping cleric alive premise is based on res and res alone. Failed lures? The only time i've seen a fail lure is when someone jumps the gun using earthflame or a cleric tries with cyclone... If i ever do fail a lure i'll get the mobs away from the squad not like i've seen most fail wannabe pullers do.

I've seen, and increasingly more, party wipes that were in fact the cleric's fault. Like healing the barb before he gets aggro, it's not like Roar is hard to miss. Or trying to play DD. The only reason clerics get away with no one pointing out their mistakes is people don't want to loose clerics mid run. I've seen clerics be patiently encouraged and supported through mistakes that would get any other squad member (except perhaps the barb) kicked out without any consideration. Get off your high horse, clerics as a group are not better at playing the game than any other class. Sometimes squads do wipe because the cleric couldn't do his job, and this sometimes means knowing when to let people die, overruling fail barbs and setting down the law.

I have in no way claimed clerics have it easy but this gives them no right to disrepect others (now venos have the easiest job on a squad? yea, pulling fast and efficiently through 69 is a cakewalk...). You guys talk about punishment for people not doing their job but what about when they die because they do? Just take it? I town with clerics a lot because the barb or sometimes even BMs can't be bothered to escort them through a dungeon. Don't talk to me about how you always pay for other mistakes, i've seen plenty of clerics making bad judgement calls once the tank is down, and it's frustrating to have a cleric complaint about how they died when the whole squad sacrificed to give them a chance to escape they didn't take. We all die in this game, you only get away with complaining about it because people can't afford to ditch you even when you're wrong.

And take a stroll down the lowbie areas. I guarantee half the people asking for a res are clerics themselves...

Edit; Just to make it clear, i'm talking bout squad work. I started my posting in this thread by stating that i consider pathetic anyone who lays dead asking for a res. I never ask any of my friends, clerics or otherwise, to waste their time if there's nothing in it for them (culti bosses are an exception, but i help others with theirs as much as i can). I have NEVER asked for a res when on the field. NEVER.

Most people in this friend were speaking generally from a clerics point of view. Of course there are **** clerics, there is **** in every class. The point is on more occasions that not the cleric gets the ****. When i said what i said it was from a high level point of view now at a lowbie one, we all make mistakes but its usually the cleric who takes the rap for them. Congratulations on walking the cleric back though but again we spoke generally not about you personal experiences being a cleric escort. It doesn't seem to me that us clerics are on a high horse we are just being honest at having put up with it all for x amount of levels, if anyone is on the high horse its you, you have said in previous posts that what some of said is wrong and shouldn't be like that. Lets just remind ourselves who the clerics are though hey?

To put it plainly your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant unless you have actually played a cleric properly as you will have no idea of the day to day things most clerics go through.