TT distrubtuion round robin really fair?

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Estuary - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Plus, what is the cost of a sub on DW and the cost of a celestone? Is it making subbing it worth it or fair?

Well they are 60k-80k, for the sub, but as I said we ADJUST the amount of mirages the subber would get according to how much subs are, so yes for the most part it is worth it, except for 3-1 << that one is a bizoch to get mirages on, so we normally just do other things to compensate for it, so no the subber ain't 'forgotten.'

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nobody in a TT squad is "worth" a two million coin mat just because of their costs and if that is the argument that is used to justify share order it is a **** poor one.

Like I said, the "my expenses are higher" argument is totally bogus. It makes no logical sense, and is self-rationalization to assuage the guilt of tanks/clerics who accept the bribe of first pick to join a TT group, but who don't want to believe that they're so low as to take a bribe.

The only reason the "subber gets first pick" rule works, is that it follows the same broken logic as the "my expenses are higher" argument. All the DDers know it's a completely bogus logic too. But it gets the tanks and clerics who rant and pout about their expenses to shut up about how they should get first pick just because their expenses are higher. The subber's expenses are demonstrably and indisputably higher than theirs, so the DDers can use the tank/cleric's twisted logic against them to let someone else get first pick.

Kyinus - Heavens Tear

dude cough up some cash and sub.....im a fist bm and i usualy sub...i dont do tanking.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Kyinus - Heavens Tear wrote: »

dude cough up some cash and sub.....im a fist bm and i usualy sub...i dont do tanking.

Congratulations on proving you either can't read properly or don't bother to read. Allow me to quote for you so you might understand something:

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Apparently each server has branched off when it comes to what a subber will pay, so you need to keep this in mind before you run around posting. Remember, you HT folks, you cannot tell somebody in Dreamweaver to just sub it and get first pick because on Dreamweaver subbers only get paid back in mirages. You really need to remember that before leaving simple answers like "sub it if you want first pick" because we aren't all on your server, k?

Understand now why your logic fails?

Notbad - Heavens Tear

wtvdie wrote: »

whats really bad is barbs think they automatically get first pick regardless of whether they tank or not.

i was farming tt 60 for my alt, using my 95 bm, tanking healing myself since everyone was scared of purcussion's aoe. come drop time, barb runs off with drops.

when asking why, he said barb always gets first pick. stupid thing was, cleric was in on it.

90+ guilds have problems making squads for tt 1-1 lol. i wonder why...

i know you your from raging tide arn't you :P saw you say hi sis guild chat...back to homework

Timptrist - Dreamweaver

I've never understood the point of a "so and so picks first" system. I don't care who does what who spent this money for a this or that. We are all there, we are all working together as a group. I've done a lot of tt runs most of which I sub and I tank. If you need a mat you state it before the run starts if the mat drops you get it. Even if it's a gold mat if it's one you need then if it drops you will get it. If more than 1 person needs the same mat then agree to do more than 1 run incase not enough drop. Need before greed always. Give out the mats that are needed then the rest is split for those that were just there to help or for money. If the entire group is there for money then it's split on cost value. 1 person gets a gba the next gets enough of the other mats to equal that cost or close enough within reason.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If I had know from the beginning you were describing your adventures as a one-man TT squad, I would have given you one of these b:pleased and gone on my merry way.

By the way, I *never* troll. I honestly don't like you.

lol. You give me far more credit than I deserve. *bows* b:pleased

DarkSniper - Lost City

There will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER be a universally accepted way to split HH drops.


Discuss it with the squad your running with before you go and if you can't agree on a way to split drops, leave.

Lightaine - Dreamweaver

DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »

There will never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever EVER be a universally accepted way to split TT drops.


Discuss it with the squad your running with before you go and if you can't agree on a way to split drops, leave.

Fixed.

7890

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

Let's see.

Feral has a 78-79 (if she leveled by now, lol) barb. I'm glad, I can run TT with a full faction squad and not have to worry about the drops anymore. Sadly it's not TTs I need much anymore (except 2-2... and I think I still need **** in 2-1, QQ). Though now I'm a 90 BM, I can handle stuff to, but I prefer having our barb tank - and it's not because of the repair bill, it's just safer.

Also because we're both now used by more. If I AOE grind, I'm guaranteed 90k+ repair bills (my last hour grinding was a good 60k off my funds). She spends 30-40k per TT run. I've seen her mention it a few times, but she's never complained about it.

Both her and I (on my cleric, and now my BM) run uncharmed. I use apothecary items on cleric, BM has enough HP and def. to withstand 2-2 Astralwalker adds with BB only, and our barb has TOP and pots.

The costs ARE NOT astronomical. They climb up for clerics in 2-2 (2 bosses require a long BB) and 2-3 (possible deaths at Belial + the BBs), and it's compensated with one mat if you're running for money... And judging the bosses in 3-1, it doesn't seem so bad either.

If anything, I end up using more pots on my BM than on my cleric... exception made in 2-2 if we need Wurlord. But we deal with our class costs.

chelseacrafter

How about we just let the game do the selection like it was intended & act like GROWN UPS even if we aren't one yet?

Seriously... I have news for ALL you barbs & clerics out there...

Until you all pay me back for buying my herc then I don't want to hear ANYTHING about your charms.

I don't see you all paying RENT for the herc. Where's my money for food when you FAIL & get my herc killed? Where's my money for repairs & pots because I have to heal myself because clerics ignore me & baby the barb?

Then you wonder why we solo so much & stay to ourselves. It's this juvenile whining about the class you chose to play & that you are in over your heads. If you can't afford the class you play... go make another character in a different class you can handle. Otherwise b:shutup

Michael_Dark - Lost City

chelseacrafter wrote: »

Then you wonder why we solo so much & stay to ourselves.

It's mostly out of greed. Not very bright greed, because any intelligent veno knows that a party of DD can make a boss that takes 30 minutes to solo like 5 minutes. lol

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear

because of the system as it exists, at least on HT and in the guilds i used to be in, i never got a chance at TT drops to make any gear or weapons-i had to buy off the AH what i could. and even when i was subber, the squad members always insisted on taking the lions share...i would maybe be permitted 1 bit of what i needed. and without a herc, in those old guilds, (all defunct/nearly defunct) a veno didnt have a chance at getting into a squad without being promptly dumped as soon as they found out you had 'only' golems.

the only way to get what you need is to squad with good friends, who know your situation, and help you, and you help with their needs when they ask. any other way just doesnt work when you are on the low end of the food chain.

ExELFine - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Exactly my thought. The OP totally forgot the subber. So if anyone wants first choice picks all they need to do is sub the run and everyone is fine. That's for general random squads.

As for guild squads, whoever subs, mats go to the ones who need it, although in large guilds, there seems to be a lot of abuse going on but that's a different topic altogether.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

because of the system as it exists, at least on HT and in the guilds i used to be in, i never got a chance at TT drops to make any gear or weapons-i had to buy off the AH what i could. and even when i was subber, the squad members always insisted on taking the lions share...i would maybe be permitted 1 bit of what i needed. and without a herc, in those old guilds, (all defunct/nearly defunct) a veno didnt have a chance at getting into a squad without being promptly dumped as soon as they found out you had 'only' golems.

the only way to get what you need is to squad with good friends, who know your situation, and help you, and you help with their needs when they ask. any other way just doesnt work when you are on the low end of the food chain.

Must I really repeat myself again? Let alone what someone else has been trying to say. The past couple of pages.

THIS is DREAMWEAVER not any other server, things are different on here, the subbers cost is a LOT lower, and as such here on dreamweaver they are compensated with mirages, which the amount they get differs depending on how much the mirages are at the time.

Also I have already edited my first... admittedly lengthy post to address that issue already, so I would appreciate it anyone else coming in to not quote that post again, I didn't really forget them, its just that they are already more then compensated for there costs here on dreamweaver.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Somehow, I think we have all missed the point that Slivaf is trying to make. He is saying that in the 1st round of picking, assuming that the barb's cost and cleric's cost is higher, we do the usual picks to make up for the extra costs and in the following rounds, the mats will be distributed more randomly. In his case, his idea of fairness is distributing it by level.

He is trying to change the way TT works for the better by trying to come up with a better pick order. Most of you are just going back to the same old debate about TT which is not helping at all. How about everyone of us coming up with an acceptable pick order(or distribution) and debate about that?

And random loot system in this game is just horrible. Don't even suggest letting the random system in the game do its work.

I believe that this post is to generate new, better ideas to replace the current system instead of everyone QQ-ing about their own classes and TTs.
Unless of course, that you think the current system is good enough then tell us how the proposed idea is not better than the current one.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

chelseacrafter wrote: »

How about we just let the game do the selection like it was intended & act like GROWN UPS even if we aren't one yet?

Seriously... I have news for ALL you barbs & clerics out there...

Until you all pay me back for buying my herc then I don't want to hear ANYTHING about your charms.

I don't see you all paying RENT for the herc. Where's my money for food when you FAIL & get my herc killed? Where's my money for repairs & pots because I have to heal myself because clerics ignore me & baby the barb?

Then you wonder why we solo so much & stay to ourselves. It's this juvenile whining about the class you chose to play & that you are in over your heads. If you can't afford the class you play... go make another character in a different class you can handle. Otherwise b:shutup

Don't blame us for baby-ing the barb. If DD dies, we can rez and move along. If barb dies, the entire squad falls apart. So, I would rather keep the tank alive than to keep everyone's hp full with the risk of the barb dying. if party gets wiped out, we lose 10 times more exp than you. So in the end, who suffers more?

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Let's see.

Feral has a 78-79 (if she leveled by now, lol) barb. I'm glad, I can run TT with a full faction squad and not have to worry about the drops anymore. Sadly it's not TTs I need much anymore (except 2-2... and I think I still need **** in 2-1, QQ). Though now I'm a 90 BM, I can handle stuff to, but I prefer having our barb tank - and it's not because of the repair bill, it's just safer.

Also because we're both now used by more. If I AOE grind, I'm guaranteed 90k+ repair bills (my last hour grinding was a good 60k off my funds). She spends 30-40k per TT run. I've seen her mention it a few times, but she's never complained about it.

Both her and I (on my cleric, and now my BM) run uncharmed. I use apothecary items on cleric, BM has enough HP and def. to withstand 2-2 Astralwalker adds with BB only, and our barb has TOP and pots.

The costs ARE NOT astronomical. They climb up for clerics in 2-2 (2 bosses require a long BB) and 2-3 (possible deaths at Belial + the BBs), and it's compensated with one mat if you're running for money... And judging the bosses in 3-1, it doesn't seem so bad either.

If anything, I end up using more pots on my BM than on my cleric... exception made in 2-2 if we need Wurlord. But we deal with our class costs.

2-2 is doable with 1 cleric and also, your BM could have just auto attack and sparked when possible (like what some other bm has said in this thread and from the way he said it, it should be the best way to DD in this entire game).

Btw, 2 long BBs? Forshura, Feng and Astralwalker(sometimes even ape) needs BB. (If you say use party heal for Feng, I've levelled it up so it costs about 1000 mana per cast. With IH, I believe it is more expensive than BB). And some squads demand that you use RB as well. I would not say the cost is high with the availability of event pots but it is not low either at the same time.

jamesburr36

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

It's mostly out of greed. Not very bright greed, because any intelligent veno knows that a party of DD can make a boss that takes 30 minutes to solo like 5 minutes. lol

LOL and QQ more. I rather be "greedy" and solo with my veno in TT and spend 30 minutes fighting a boss than spend 5 minutes fighting a boss in a squad and 25 minutes of whining and fighting over who gets what mats. Or even worsesquadding with the Fails that decide they need to abandon the squad for FB or BH, Etc. halfway through a TT run making me waste my time as well as everyone elses or QQ about losing EXP when dying.

P.S. That comment about the greed make me think that you are a bit jealous about the veno class. QQ.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

even hated 'split by order' wasnt sposed to be so bad originally

i remember when ppl were leaving squad when they got good mat or made 2nd pick reversed
but then 15yrs old kids playing barbs and clerics started to abuse rule..

anyway, best solution atm wud be to make split by value (1 pricey mat = few worse mats)
--> almost equall share with some bonuses for classes investing most..

(actually something similar is working for long time - but not in nub squads i guess xP)


so dear DDs, if u left TT with nothing and barb with 2m then it is not because of unfair rules on DW - it is coz u squaded with nubs

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Somehow, I think we have all missed the point that Slivaf is trying to make. He is saying that in the 1st round of picking, assuming that the barb's cost and cleric's cost is higher, we do the usual picks to make up for the extra costs and in the following rounds, the mats will be distributed more randomly. In his case, his idea of fairness is distributing it by level.

He is trying to change the way TT works for the better by trying to come up with a better pick order. Most of you are just going back to the same old debate about TT which is not helping at all. How about everyone of us coming up with an acceptable pick order(or distribution) and debate about that?

And random loot system in this game is just horrible. Don't even suggest letting the random system in the game do its work.

I believe that this post is to generate new, better ideas to replace the current system instead of everyone QQ-ing about their own classes and TTs.
Unless of course, that you think the current system is good enough then tell us how the proposed idea is not better than the current one.

O-o *Bows* ^^ thank you for putting it into words that I would never be able too.

That is precisely what I am trying to get at, just trying to make it a bit more fair/appealing for dd's to continue to go help in tt runs.

While I admitted earlier, this idea does indeed have it's flaws, but is fairer then it always being one class receiving a majority of the cash in the TT run. With my idea it could easily be a level 92 bm getting 2 picks in a row or a level 58 wizard, all depending on the TT instance. Not to mention the barb, and cleric getting that first and second pick in the first round, should more then make up for there 'costs.'

While I realize this is just a game, and there are indeed other ways to go about making sure that WE get the things we need, it is still unfair... and very unappealing to go in a squad, and get 'jipped' when you were there the whole time, and got chewed out for not doing this or that. This is a change for the 'whole' party not just one specific person.

Psudeotrophe - Dreamweaver

This is how I've done a few TT runs on my main:

Subber gets X number of Mirages to cover the cost of subbing

Priority First: If someone needs something, outside of a gold mat they get it. If they want a gold mat, then they get not a single other pick.


If no one is going in for needs then it goes as such:

Tank gets first pick (to fit repairs, and because they are the one in the maw of the damage). Out of courtesy, I let them pick first. Always, because If I cant do it myself, then well, I need to ask for help, and out of courtesy, I let them pick first.

Cleric gets Second Pick Again out of courtesy, because all I have to do, is defend the party or catch.

Damage dealers By level, Highest level Damage dealer picks next and so on down the line.

and the gold mat is sold in auction to aid everyones repairs if it isnt claimed as the one persons SOLE choice. Sole choice, even if subber, means that they dont get mirages to fit the cost of subbing also.

Its based solidly on cost vs cost. Typically an archer/wiz/veno/bm(who isnt tanking)/Barb(who isnt tanking)/psy/sin arent going to take as much damage or have as high a repair as a main cleric or main tank, its just the way it works guys.

Where an archer will fire off say 400 arrows, at one boss, the tank can take upwards of -30 durability. An Archer can always use less expensive arrows, and while the same is true for a tank to use less expensive armor and weapons, who's going to want to stand behind a lvl 90 barb wearing lvl20 armor? While an archer can use lvl 10 arrows and deal only an iffy difference of 100 damage per shot.


Also if any food mats drop during a TT run, I generally give them to the venos, same with arrows to archers, hp pots to melee dders and hold DQ items for myself.


If It is Based on Greed:

Materials are auctioned at the end of the run, and sold to highest bidder, and the end ammount of coin is therein divided between the other 5 party members.

I do it this way, and normally it discourages greed based bidding wars. If at the end of the run no one has decided on either way it will be taken, the Keeper of the materials Auction houses them and divides the herein aquired coin between the TT participants.

Each material is settled in AH for the minimum purchasing price notable of each mat, then is set to no buy out for 24 hours. The money is split 6 ways and that way its fair game for everyone, including myself if it is to be based on greed.



I also ask prior to Joining a TT squad a very simple question:

"Need, or Greed?"

If they say need, Im in, greed, Im not.


Slivaf I do see your point, however, its really a matter of principle. As a Damage dealer, I know Im gonna get sub par materials, and honestly, Im okay with it, I just get 2 sub par mats and sell them in AH its not that big a deal to me.