TT distrubtuion round robin really fair?

tweakz · February 2010

If TT is costing you more than others, you may want to consider that it may be your build or choice of charms over gear. You shouldn't take your fail build out on others. If you're a HA Wiz: suck up the MP costs you generated for yourself. =P If you have -ch gear: try swap gear with +mag/+mp. From what I can see: MP & HP charms are only necessary for builds that fail at PvE/ non cash shop.

StormHydra - Sanctuary · February 2010

Okay.

1. Ask the cleric how much their charm cost/pots/ etc was.

2.Ask how much the barbs repair bill is.

3. if the cleric died, ask how much exp he lost.

4. Give oracles to refund cleric exp loss. Pay the barbs repair bill. Give the cleric a new charm and refund pots.

????

LOSS. b:shocked

Yeah. They wont give it to you. Because the ancient devils soul just about pays for the clerics charm cost. And the BM wont get them for his lvl 90 GXs because a BM in the past has flamed the cleric, has charged into mobs, gotten himself killed and blames cleric sometime in the past during a FB39. Obivously all BMs are like this so this BM doesnt get to have the 20mil mats for his GX.
Even if you did that. Even if there are 4 clerics in the squad, and 2/4 clerics DDed using plume shot, 1 barb and a BM the BM will get last pick Because

1. A BM in the past has flamed the cleric, has charged into mobs, gotten himself killed and blames cleric sometime in the past during a FB39. Obivously all BMs are like this so this BM gets last pick

2. All the other clerics OBVIOUSLY healed.

Graviora - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I go into TT to get what I need. If I happened to need a GBA and then didn't need the second one; I give it to my husband who is a DD. b:surrender I normally get more mats to help friends than I do for myself in TT.

Btw: Hi Slivaf.

Waterfal - Sanctuary · February 2010

I only go in TT to help friends or to get mats myself. When I need mats I tell the squad what mats I need and ask if they're oke with it if I get at least one of the mats I need. Usually they're oke with that

Just discuss who needs what and do several runs so everybody has what he/she needs. Stops the fuzz about distribution.

Ninnuam - Sanctuary · February 2010

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »

Okay.

1. Ask the cleric how much their charm cost/pots/ etc was.

2.Ask how much the barbs repair bill is.

3. if the cleric died, ask how much exp he lost.

4. Give oracles to refund cleric exp loss. Pay the barbs repair bill. Give the cleric a new charm and refund pots.

????

LOSS. b:shocked

Yeah. They wont give it to you. Because the ancient devils soul just about pays for the clerics charm cost. And the BM wont get them for his lvl 90 GXs because a BM in the past has flamed the cleric, has charged into mobs, gotten himself killed and blames cleric sometime in the past during a FB39. Obivously all BMs are like this so this BM doesnt get to have the 20mil mats for his GX.
Even if you did that. Even if there are 4 clerics in the squad, and 2/4 clerics DDed using plume shot, 1 barb and a BM the BM will get last pick Because

1. A BM in the past has flamed the cleric, has charged into mobs, gotten himself killed and blames cleric sometime in the past during a FB39. Obivously all BMs are like this so this BM gets last pick

2. All the other clerics OBVIOUSLY healed.

xD

But seriously though, no one in their right mind is going to give a random bm/barb a 15mil worth mat while getting an average of 1-2mil worth for themselves out of the run. And yes, ESPECIALLY if they burn charm, res scrolls and GAs.

Ancient evil in itself is a very tricky fight. If it goes without a hitch and i don't die at all I'm happy to walk out with a mirage or two. If I die 10 times however because the barb is asking me what alacrity of the beast does and the veno has lvl2 purge damn straight I will be asking for compensation.

So yeah, run TT with guildies and friends only and stay clear of random squads. That way you know you'll be walking out happy even before you start the run.

thorondorel · February 2010

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The true reason clerics and barbs get first pick is that they're widely considered to be required to do TT, and thus in high demand. So the first pick is effectively a bribe to get them to join your group. All this talk about repair and charm costs is just self-rationalization people make up to try to get themselves to believe they aren't taking a bribe.

True, very true.
And also, TT for a cleric is
3 -Ironheart
3 -Ironheart
3
3
3
3
3
3
etc... untill finger falls of.
+high consequences when things go wrong.

Never mind expenses. This game is played to be fun. And for me as a cleric, TT's are not fun. To me, TT's were both boring and stressfull so even with second pick I would rarely go into TT. Only if someone asked me to come I'd go.
Well, trying to level up a bm and/or archer now and see if BH/TTs get more fun. Because that's pretty much all this game is. I'll keep the cleric reserved for helping friends on bosses, rezzes, etc.

divinenyte · February 2010

You have got to be kidding me; absolutely noone should have the right to get first pic on ANY item for ANY reason *UNLESS* the *ENTIRE PARTY* come to an agreement of how *ALL* the items are to be split *AFTER* the instance run................AND...............if the party is *TOO GREEDY* to even be fair to eachother then the item or items that the majority of the group is being evnious over should be *RANDOMIZED*. Yeah yeah i know what ur thinking............** b:cry but thats not fair to me i waisted alot of resourses to do this run weh..weh..wehb:cry**..................**IF** anyone took the time to realize thats what the *RANOMIZATION* is in the game for to begin with then this problem would not have evn surfaced in the first place. Whoever even keeps coming up with these damn selfish distribution systems on how to split iemes after a run should have never even been given the right to choose an item at all if thats how they look at item distribution between their parties....

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2010

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First off let me say this I know this has been debated a lot, and thus far to MY KNOWLEDGE no one has came up with something like this.

FAIL.

There are a few different types of runs:

Pick-Up Party. Maybe a few friends, bunch of strangers. Best distribution is to split the mats equally.

Faction run. People get the mats they need. One person shouldn't call more than one mat unless others are ok with it. Rest of the mats get split between the rest of the party evenly, or mats sent to guild bank. Uncalled gold is sold and split. If you call gold you only get a chance at that one mat.

Money run. One person banks and sells, distributes the money equally.

Friends helping friends. You do the run, the person being helped gets the mats they need. Everyone else split the mats equally.

EVERYONE is spending their time and effort to farm, prioritizing by DD is just lame.

Simple and straightforward. People who like to distribute by class or level are just plain greedy. I will not party with people like this. **** off.

Teeki - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I don't go on too many TT runs but when I do, I like to ask who needs what for their armor/weapon/ornaments. Usually I'll go for one big item I need an try to take things the others don't need in the hopes that everyone gets at least one thing they need b:cute

Personally I prefer faction runs because my guild leader/higher officer will take care of things and I don't have to worry :P Besides, I like to help my faction

Vivre - Harshlands · February 2010

Yeah.. do faction runs, and distribute so that each person gets what they're here for. It works really well if you're there to help each other ^^

wtvdie · February 2010

actually, its funny, a cleric with high mp regen doesnt use any resources what so ever in tt. i know 3-4 clerics that dont need mp pots, dont need mp charms, dont have repairs and get second pick. lol

Aadi - Lost City · February 2010

wtvdie wrote: »

actually, its funny, a cleric with high mp regen doesnt use any resources what so ever in tt. i know 3-4 clerics that dont need mp pots, dont need mp charms, dont have repairs and get second pick. lol

Unless they're also debuffing the boss in between heals, which a good cleric would do (unless there's no mag classes of course), the the regen gets cut.

Although you're right on that part...I went fully as a support cleric on a 2-1 yesterday to help some people get Ape's Teeth, didn't do any DDing at all, and with my triple spark and mana regen, I didn't use a single pot...

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Here's my two cents
Everybody needs to remember that archers AFK auto-attack because this is how we deal most of our damage. We do not do it to be lazy, we do not do it to spite the rest of you who cannot auto-attack and we do not do it so that we can always go AFK.

Read again. We auto-attack because this is how we do as much damage as we potentially can. Yes, it isn't necessarily difficult, and it isn't costly, but also keep in mind arrows are not free unless you farm the **** out of some instance that is liable to drop assloads of arrows.

Erm so you deal more damage by afk auto-attacking than sparking every time you can?

I don't mind a fair split but one trend I have noticed is that people go afk all the time. And its the barbs and clerics who suffer when some of the DDs do that. If you ask PWI to implement an afk button for clerics, I would gladly jsut settle for equal distribution.

Edit : I've been to a few TTs where the bm don't HF too. I'm not saying they can't deal decent damage, but I'm quite sure HF helps more in a full squad.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Meh did you read my post WHOLE post? The FIRST round pick MORE then fills up there losses from tanking, and using charms, especially when the gold prices aren't inflated.

EDIT: Also yes I realize this has been posted a lot, but meh this current system really needs a change.

Only because you are picking up squads of greedy bastages, and really need to find a faction that doesn't exist to ***** you over, but that helps it's members.

I only ask for early pick when the cleric was FAIL. With good clerics, my charm hardly ever ticks. I have a cleric, and I *know* how much $$ gets chewed up saving my ***.

You want to impress me, kill it faster. If I see you popping a macro and walking off for a smoke, why would I fight for you to get the best mats?

RedMenace

\usually give *everyone* else in the squad pick ahead of me
\\but not the "early and often" whiners

MissUco - Sanctuary · February 2010

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First off let me say this I know this has been debated a lot, and thus far to MY KNOWLEDGE no one has came up with something like this. I also know one came up recently but I don't want to necro it up, besides chance of people reading it is a lot higher then if I were to necro up someone else's post about it.

Anyways now on to my suggestion FOR THE PLAYERS not the gms, obviously. =x

Is it really fair that the barb and cleric get the same pick order EVERY time the pick order completes? I for one don't think so. The first round pick every single round, is pretty sad, the first time they get something 'great' it should MORE then cover there costs. With the system in place now, barbs and clerics could EASILY get 2 gba's in one go at the TT, which is NOT fair to the dd's.

So how do we fix it? Well I may just have a solution that's a LOT fairer then this current system.

I say instead of the barb and cleric always getting first and second pick and then dd by level, highest to lowest. WHEN there is more then one mat to go around between 6 people. Why not make it so that is how it is done the first 'round' and on the second round it would go FROM the LOWEST level in the squad to the highest. Third round if any, it would go from the highest to the lowest. Also there will be times where the barb is still the lowest in the squad, but this idea in my honest opinion, is better then the barb always getting 2 of the best mats per TT run.

EXAMPLE:

First Round:
1st pick 86 Barbarin
2nd 91 Cleric
3rd 93 DD
4th 88 DD
5th 85 DD
6th 84 DD

Second round: (if any)
1st pick 84 DD
2nd 85 DD
3rd 86 Barbarin
4th 88 DD
5th 91 Cleric
6th 93 DD

Third Round: (if any)
1st pick 93 DD
2nd 91 Cleric
3rd 88 DD
4th 86 Barbian
5th 85 DD
6th 84 DD

So yes the lowest level in the squad would get 2 back to back picks, but I really think this idea is a LOT better then barb and the cleric always getting first pick each time the splits come around.

BAH while this was kind of rushed, I KNOW that barbs and clerics have there fees but as I more or less STATED ABOVE the first round pick MORE then makes up for both the clerics, and barbs' amount of losses during the tt.

Please stop being greedy, and make it a bit more probable for dd's to start completing there gears in a reasonable amount of time, instead of them constantly having to wait until double drops to get the things they need.... err rather want. (WITHOUT having to sell) It is EXTREMELY annoying messing with trying to sell the junk that hardly anyone wants while barbs, and cleric get filthy stinking rich during TT runs. That or make us do the same thing to you all when we get our barbs and clerics up to par to TT.

EDIT: Thanks to a few replies from a couple of people I have decided to come back here and do a better job at explaining myself, so if you mention something about this in this thread, well thank you for bringing it to my attention.

While this thread may seem like its an attack on barbs, and cleric who are "all" greedy, please know this, I do realize not all barbs and clerics are like this, and I do apologize that it sounded like I thought all barbs and clerics were as so, "greedy." I know that not all of you are, but still a lot of you SEEMINGLY are.

Also please do remember each server has there OWN way of doing things, while the subber undoubtedly has costs for subbing, here on dreamweaver our solution is pretty simple, and fairly adjustable, though yes like every way of distribution, it too is sometimes flawed but no where nearly as bad as this round robin **** going on.

I'm a cleric, and I've been in TT runs before. I think people should just leave it the way it is. What if the DD tanks? What if the Herc tanks and barb just sits around? Distribution by what happens is kind of silly. You could have an Archer using barrage and high level arrows burning his entire MP charm and losing lots of money from the arrows, but someone else gets the pick because they're higher DD. I think the system should stay the way it is.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear · February 2010

MissUco - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm a cleric, and I've been in TT runs before. I think people should just leave it the way it is. What if the DD tanks? What if the Herc tanks and barb just sits around? Distribution by what happens is kind of silly. You could have an Archer using barrage and high level arrows burning his entire MP charm and losing lots of money from the arrows, but someone else gets the pick because they're higher DD. I think the system should stay the way it is.

due to the plethora of contradictions, i doubt you understand how the general, random pick-up squaddistribution system works.

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't mind a fair split but one trend I have noticed is that people go afk all the time. And its the barbs and clerics who suffer when some of the DDs do that. If you ask PWI to implement an afk button for clerics, I would gladly jsut settle for equal distribution.

Ever hear of macro healing? Honestly Clerics and Archers are the two classes most likely to go AFK during HH.

Edit : I've been to a few TTs where the bm don't HF too. I'm not saying they can't deal decent damage, but I'm quite sure HF helps more in a full squad.

Ummm what? BM with fists or claws are the best DD class.

+5 CV Claws + Demon Spark > 101 Archer +10 CV bow

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

SashaGray - Heavens Tear wrote: »

due to the plethora of contradictions, i doubt you understand how the general, random pick-up squaddistribution system works.

i think we should just pass it out at end, all my squads are on free drop and i give away everything equally at end. that works for me, i don't know about you two

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ever hear of macro healing? Honestly Clerics and Archers are the two classes most likely to go AFK during HH.

Ummm what? BM with fists or claws are the best DD class.

+5 CV Claws + Demon Spark > 101 Archer +10 CV bow

someone a little full of themself?

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

someone a little full of themself?

Nope, just being honest. I only have 2 pieces of interval gear right now and I can steal and hold aggro over full dex archers with +10 Heaven's Shatterers. I'm also close to getting my Nirvana pants with -0.1 interval. That's going to be amazing.

Redmenace - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ummm what? BM with fists or claws are the best DD class.

+5 CV Claws + Demon Spark > 101 Archer +10 CV bow

What, are you deaf?

Your "claws" = damage for you

Your Heaven's Flame = more damage for everyone

RedMenace

\it's called a squad, because we're all in there with ya
\\if you want to solo the instance, then don't bring us along, your majesty

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Aim Low = 8 seconds of me beating the hell out of you

But in PvE matters;
I have ~12k average hit and 42% crit without activating any demon stuff. Stunning arrow gives me +10% crit, and demon quickshot gives me +30% faster attack speed. Between that and a Demon spark with stunning arrow, the difference between my crits and higher damage, it balances to your crit and lower hits but higher hit rate.

After asking many BMs they say average damage is ~3.5k at level ~100 with fists, you may attack faster, but in general I have higher crit and 3x the damage without putting skills into the calculation.
And I have done higher end calculations to. Fist bm at level 101 gave me her stats with TT100 fists at ~4k damage but 3.33 attack rate with 21% crit. So when calculated out, I do 3x damage but you attack 3x faster. Only thing separating us is my ~20%+ higher crit rate.

Downside of all this, I have **** defenses and low hp. XD

Torsay - Sanctuary · February 2010

In reality on Sanc the order for distributing the mats is:

1. banker (usually the one who makes the squad, uses teles, etc)
2. banker's friends and guildies
3. the dumb random cleric/barb that answerd the call on WC and came to do it

Doing random TT runs as cleric or barb isnt worthwhile, easier to make a veno and do it by yourself.

When I bank I always try to get squad of people I can trust, cause it mostly ends up the way I am selling the mats and then mailing the coins to the squad (equally).... people got to wait till the mats sell, some keep whinning where are their money and thats the reason why it sucks being a banker.

I guess it causes that all bankers start to steal in the end.

Well luckily its not so hard for a cleric/barb to make friends, venos are more left out depending on themselves.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ever hear of macro healing? Honestly Clerics and Archers are the two classes most likely to go AFK during HH.

Ummm what? BM with fists or claws are the best DD class.

+5 CV Claws + Demon Spark > 101 Archer +10 CV bow

lol, gimme a macro then, purehearted blessing, ih, purehearted blessing, ih?
Or should I throw in a SoR to cancel my ih?
I suggest you play a cleric before saying anything further.
And I cant afk bb without getting a charm, if I can afford one, I would buy the mats instead of dealing with people like you and greedy barbs who try to first pick gold mats all the time.

also, your comparison "+5 CV Claws + Demon Spark > 101 Archer +10 CV bow"
might be true, but "+5 CV Claws + Demon Spark < 3 101 Archer +10 CV bow".

And the bm i was talking about wasn't even lvl 80 yet. Try to defend that?

PS: venos are the best damage dealers in tts until higher levels, and they are still decent even at that levels.

XylolyX - Heavens Tear · February 2010

Haden - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think Im more tired of seeing these posts than barbs and clerics getting first pick...

*Insert Standard issue response here*

Barbs get first pick because charm and repair bill, clerics get second because of charm bill.. Get used to it.

Besides your a Blademaster, you should be able to tank the majority of the TT's you're after..

So if that was the case and you went in and tanked, guess what would happen? YOU would pick first to compensate repairs.

Maybe cough up some coins to the tank to get them to not pick first, like 10-15k per person on both the the tank and cleric to make it worth their time to pick last.

Or run with people who base it on Priority, not prosperity

Need then greed is my rule.
The trick is, if you're in need of mats, sub yourself. Then you get first pick.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary · February 2010

When making a squad, click on Random distribution and then tell others that's how you do it. Also, remember to tell the tank not to QQ when he doesn't get anything. b:bye

The above works quite nicely. If you don't get anything, bad luck. Also, if someone is not doing their job, kick them before you kill the boss. Simple and easy.

Noggin - Dreamweaver · February 2010

I doubt you are going to find a fairer solution for pickup squads than selling everything and sharing the loot after expenses.

But then we get into arguments about expenses. Who spent what, why did you spend that much, there are cheaper ways to get mp, that's not fair, you know what you were getting into when you rolled, you just went afk etc etc etc..........

No to mention the logistics of getting it all sold off and shared out.

Which is why TT is better done amongst friends where mats are shared over multiple runs and everyone gets what they need. A situation I would love to be in but my logins are sporadic usually short and follow no real schedule, it makes it difficult. I evny those of you that can manage it.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Noggin - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I doubt you are going to find a fairer solution for pickup squads than selling everything and sharing the loot after expenses.

But then we get into arguments about expenses. Who spent what, why did you spend that much, there are cheaper ways to get mp, that's not fair, you know what you were getting into when you rolled, you just went afk etc etc etc..........

No to mention the logistics of getting it all sold off and shared out.

Which is why TT is better done amongst friends where mats are shared over multiple runs and everyone gets what they need. A situation I would love to be in but my logins are sporadic usually short and follow no real schedule, it makes it difficult. I evny those of you that can manage it.

For pickup squads, I agree that it is the fairest of all ways but then theres mat theft and delay in getting the coins to deal with.And when do the people get the coins? After everything is sold? I still have some TT mats from over a week ago. ( But that is just me)

If you get your own mats, you can try selling it at a lower price or higher price depending on your own preference. Leaving it to the banker might not be such a good idea unless you really trust that person. But then again, anything is better than the way it is now. The "barbs, clerics and subbers first" way is not really fair at all.

Edits to make the post more understandable

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

It's nowhere near a good solution to sell mats when doing PUGs. I'm still waiting for my share on runs i did months ago... And don't let the banker give you your share right away either, market value for most mats will go down 50% as apparently most people will use their guild's "in house" prices.

If you're with randoms and aren't walking away with a mat or two you got scammed.

Noggin - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For pickup squads, I agree that it is the fairest of all ways but then theres mat theft and delay in getting the coins to deal with.And when do the people get the coins? After everything is sold? I still have some TT mats from over a week ago. ( But that is just me)

If you get your own mats, you can try selling it at a lower price or higher price depending on your own preference. Leaving it to the banker might not be such a good idea unless you really trust that person. But then again, anything is better than the way it is now. The "barbs, clerics and subbers first" way is not really fair at all.

Edits to make the post more understandable

My point exactly. I see no practical or totally fair solution to TT runs done in isolation. I will continue to follow a need based approach, I only take mats if I need them, and I only do TT if I need mats.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver · February 2010

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

When making a squad, click on Random distribution and then tell others that's how you do it. Also, remember to tell the tank not to QQ when he doesn't get anything. b:bye

The above works quite nicely. If you don't get anything, bad luck. Also, if someone is not doing their job, kick them before you kill the boss. Simple and easy.

If you do that, lets say I am doing a 1-3 for Drums. After killing the drummer and getting my random mats, I can just leave the squad and join another for more drums. With the banker system, only the one who completes the TT will get mats. So in a sense, banker system has its plus points as well.
(Not that I would do that in a real run)

TT distrubtuion round robin really fair?

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