FF squads lately

Santacruz - Heavens Tear
Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
edited February 2010 in General Discussion
all i see across WC is "Veno + Herc wanted for FF"

so i thought id ask someone why this is the case (convo of a person advertising on WC for a party and me)

image3af.png

the sum up i get is, Veno's are now the new tanks because barbs are too lazy to do what a barb should do, im not pointing fingers or flaming off but this new "craze" is leaving a lot of the "better" Veno's out of the action.

in my eyes the barb should be tanking and we have done runs in 1Hr this way.

am i wrong or being a bit "im not happy coz i cant go?", constructive criticism please
Post edited by Santacruz - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • Skybelle - Sanctuary
    Skybelle - Sanctuary Posts: 595 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I'll stick to my BM tanks, thanks. b:surrender

    As long as the veno knows how to pull, lure, try tanking with their pet. It's fine.
    I'd much rather see a veno who knows what they're doing rather than a veno who can't do anything but has a herc.

    Some venos with hercs rely on it too much and don't do anything "because I have a herc so does it matter" and it annoys me crazy.

    Well, asides from that. The barb/cleric population has been decreasing since the new classes came out in my opinion. Most either just quit or just re-rolled. b:shocked

    But then again, venos with hercs are usually preferred when there's no one to tank. But if there is, usually they tank. If they're lazy though and wants the herc to tank, why not just ditch him and get a new DD since I bet that's what he wants to do anyways. b:chuckle
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  • Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear
    Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,161 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In theory you're right, but very few people are going to go out of their way to have higher expenses.
    I've never really timed any of my runs, and for a few I've never had to tank any of the bosses at all, but most of the squads that ask me to tank a few bosses insist it will be faster anyways. I dunno.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Evict is a sexy chalupa. <3
    retired, etc
  • __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver
    __Nanayo__ - Dreamweaver Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Does this really surprise you?

    In a game where people will pay out the **** for Oracles and Scarlet Fruits to bypass the lower levels (despite being able to get 1-2 levels a day EASY on BH and CS alone) and shout themselves hoarse for a level 10 rez when they die (yet can't be bothered to carry a stack of Guardian Scrolls...go figure), are you honestly shocked that some people would discriminate against Venos without a Herc because they can't be assed to do the jobs they're supposed to do in the first place?

    Don't take it too personally. It's just some peeps being selfish. Plenty of players out there that won't judge based on such things if you've got the patience to look. b:surrender
  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i think she was advertising for a barb and herc'ed veno.

    but it does leave me a little tee'd off coz i cant afford a herc but i can FF very well, but im not allowed to, so what do i do?

    back in the days we used barbs, now it seems venos & hercs are the tanks.

    its it just a changing of the times i have to accept or what =<
  • Your_Desire - Lost City
    Your_Desire - Lost City Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    It is sad that not many people consider the repair fees that the barbs have to pay. I only met a few people who asked me (my other char) if they should pay me for tanking; whatever the fee. I do not argue that a barb should not tank, I'm just saying that some take wbs for granted and don't care about the costs. When a squad has a herc and a barb, they can rotate and they can tank in turns. Afterall, a veno does not have to repair a herc, and a barb spends a lot of money on repairing his equipment
  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Your_Desire - Lost City wrote: »
    It is sad that not many people consider the repair fees that the barbs have to pay. I only met a few people who asked me (my other char) if they should pay me for tanking; whatever the fee. I do not argue that a barb should not tank, I'm just saying that some take wbs for granted and don't care about the costs. When a squad has a herc and a barb, they can rotate and they can tank in turns. Afterall, a veno does not have to repair a herc, and a barb spends a lot of money on repairing his equipment

    i consider the barbs repairs, but i feel that being a barb hes already chosent to accept the repair bills when he clicked create.

    then again i don't have $200 to buy a herc, id much rather be a barb than pay that

    this leaves all the veno's who arnt willing to pay that much.. buggered
  • wnight
    wnight Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    well about Herc tanking , here my 5 cents :

    If squad has no barb --> it's ok to have herc as tank but khm.. whole DD kinda Way limited.

    If Squad has Barb or BM who really can tank then --> yeah having Herc is a nice asset with constant damage but it cannot replace good Barb or BM since the Agro from normal damage Herc loses in 1-2 well placed hits and i won't gamble on that that he will retake it NO ty.

    My point of view Veno with Herc as tank only as emergency pill either fully tanking but as result squad damage output overall really low or as random Joker card in emergency cases to grab attention of mob/worst case boss from poor soul.

    To all Lazy Tanks:
    Expenses -->> sure they are but in relation what you get back it's worth. If you disagree try solo grind and check time+exp gain+vs cost or time+exp gain vs FF costs . I think you get the point.b:scorn
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Your_Desire - Lost City wrote: »
    It is sad that not many people consider the repair fees that the barbs have to pay. I only met a few people who asked me (my other char) if they should pay me for tanking; whatever the fee. I do not argue that a barb should not tank, I'm just saying that some take wbs for granted and don't care about the costs. When a squad has a herc and a barb, they can rotate and they can tank in turns. Afterall, a veno does not have to repair a herc, and a barb spends a lot of money on repairing his equipment

    My sympathies for Barbs repair costs are limited, mainly because they accepted that downside when they created the character. Just like Clerics accepted that they'd be sucking down MP pots like water. And to be fair...most good Barbs DON'T complain about the cost, since they make up for it by being in high demand for...like...everything, and get first cuts of TT drops to compensate.

    And even beyond that, good barbs tend to get taken care of by friends that can appreciate their hard work. Even if only a little. b:cute
  • Conavar - Heavens Tear
    Conavar - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Herc is ok for FF it can tank the bosses but its not really needed TBH.

    Barb/BM/Herc can all tank FF easily, the bosses outside of their tricks are not actually hard.

    So the "We NEED a Herc" statement is false.. you dont need one.


    Get a Bm to tank we dont moan about repair bills b:pleased
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    About repair fees.
    I have holly punishment help and heavenrage boots. They all have repair fee 1. So if barb has these gears(of course for melee classes) and maybe some rank gear, it take his repair fees much lower.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Herc is ok for FF it can tank the bosses but its not really needed TBH.

    Barb/BM/Herc can all tank FF easily, the bosses outside of their tricks are not actually hard.

    So the "We NEED a Herc" statement is false.. you dont need one.


    Get a Bm to tank we dont moan about repair bills b:pleased

    and those mobs drop rather fast with 2 bm's
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As a mid-leveled veno is always frustrating to remind myself the stigma attached to not having an herc will endure into high levels. I've actually come to see it as a badge of honor. Those of us who can't afford an herc (or choose other pets) have to prove our worth every step of the way. It does have it's rewarding moments however, especially when you get chosen over ther herc'ed veno for further runs...
  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    my point of this thread is to "show" to the users out there that veno's without herc's are highly capable squads for FF, because they seem to believe otherwise

    all day ive watched WC on Heavens tear, and its "LF VENO+HERC FOR FF" on every single world chat that mentioned wanting a veno.

    i sit there thinking i fancy a FF run but im not about to stand there and have some in-experienced newbie tell me why she/he thinks im not good enough when ive run and gained 3x the experience they have.
  • Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Are not Hercs useless DD's though and its mostly the reflec that does the dmg ?

    So wouldnt a run be quicker if a Barb tanked and a DD pet was used coupled with the no dmg reduction on bosses ?

    Never played a Veno so just a curious question
  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Are not Hercs useless DD's though and its mostly the reflec that does the dmg ?

    So wouldnt a run be quicker if a Barb tanked and a DD pet was used coupled with the no dmg reduction on bosses ?

    Never played a Veno so just a curious question

    Golems hit harder than Hercs slightly, but all the bosses in FF are dmg reduction apart from on pets obviously so pets would hit harder than a barb or player for that matter
  • Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Golems hit harder than Hercs slightly, but all the bosses in FF are dmg reduction apart from on pets obviously so pets would hit harder than a barb or player for that matter

    Yes sorry if I wasnt clear it was Pet vs Pet dmg I ment not pet vs player.

    So would a Brambled Barb tanking and Golem DDing be quicker than a Herc tanking and Barb DDing ?
  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yes sorry if I wasnt clear it was Pet vs Pet dmg I ment not pet vs player.

    So would a Brambled Barb tanking and Golem DDing be quicker than a Herc tanking and Barb DDing ?

    well u got

    option 1
    Veno healing the herc and barb DD'ing

    Total DD'ers : 2

    Option 2
    Barb tanking, Golem & veno DD'ing

    Total DD'ers : 3

    so naturally option 2 (the non herc or non herc tank method) is the fastest
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yes sorry if I wasnt clear it was Pet vs Pet dmg I ment not pet vs player.

    So would a Brambled Barb tanking and Golem DDing be quicker than a Herc tanking and Barb DDing ?

    Well...factor in that if the Herc isn't tanking, the Veno is free to devote more of their time to DD and debuffing. Between that and the damage output of the stronger pet...yes. It should be significantly faster.

    EDIT: Damn my Cleric slowness! Q_Q
  • Rillien - Heavens Tear
    Rillien - Heavens Tear Posts: 569 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    well u got

    option 1
    Veno healing the herc and barb DD'ing

    Total DD'ers : 2

    Option 2
    Barb tanking, Golem & veno DD'ing

    Total DD'ers : 3

    so naturally option 2 (the non herc or non herc tank method) is the fastest

    ^^You forgot--option 1, cleric gets to DD. Option 2, cleric gets to heal mostly, maybe a little DD.

    But I still like Option 2 better b:surrender
  • Absoluth - Heavens Tear
    Absoluth - Heavens Tear Posts: 764 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I think most squads just want an easier run. In their minds a veno with a herc will make the run go smoother. Not really about player experience. Many times when i pulled a friendly squad and shouted for that last slot filler (usually 2nd cleric or BM) when my faction doesnt have enough ppl available, the 1st thing they ask is if veno has herc and complains if squad has any player below 90. I bring 75~80ish friends all the time in runs, and its always pretty dam easy, yet random 'level rushers' only accept squads with a certain requirement: all 85/90+, 100+ runs experience and veno with herc.

    PWI lately seems to be all about rushing to 100 and gambling for your gear to call yourself ubber. Bonding and having fun has gone down the toiled, so has the average player ability to play their roles.

    In the end, you're better off finding a better squad. Odds are that people who depend on hercs or whatever else are most likely gonna fail their roles at some point, reason why they need something to back them up.
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    About repair fees.
    I have holly punishment help and heavenrage boots. They all have repair fee 1. So if barb has these gears(of course for melee classes) and maybe some rank gear, it take his repair fees much lower.
    Wow. Really? Just 1? That does help barbs...alot. Only sucks paying like 20~30m for each ^^
    PWI:
    "Free to play. Pay to win"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Fiendishkit - Heavens Tear
    Fiendishkit - Heavens Tear Posts: 193 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    well u got

    option 1
    Veno healing the herc and barb DD'ing

    Total DD'ers : 2

    Option 2
    Barb tanking, Golem & veno DD'ing

    Total DD'ers : 3

    so naturally option 2 (the non herc or non herc tank method) is the fastest

    I wouldnt say without the herc is the fastest, bosses do get added dmg from the herc's reflect buff, I cant say wether that makes it faster by much, tho. Not trying to bash you or anything. Dx
  • Varscona - Sanctuary
    Varscona - Sanctuary Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    you would think barbs get more repair bills from pulling the mobs than the bosses themselves but whatever.

    no you don't need a herc to run FCC...you don't even need barbs lol.
  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ^^You forgot--option 1, cleric gets to DD. Option 2, cleric gets to heal mostly, maybe a little DD.

    But I still like Option 2 better b:surrender

    true my bad :P
    Fiendishkit - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I wouldnt say without the herc is the fastest, bosses do get added dmg from the herc's reflect buff, I cant say wether that makes it faster by much, tho. Not trying to bash you or anything. Dx

    don't forget the barb will have reflect too, so he can add reflect dmg too
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Wow. Really? Just 1? That does help barbs...alot. Only sucks paying like 20~30m for each ^^

    Yep. I was surprised also.b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    so anyone wanna do some FF runs :P
  • Heartstone - Dreamweaver
    Heartstone - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    if Barb QQ about repairs he should reroll. its like nothing unless u kill slower than i dunno what.. but FC is udner 100k repair, same goes for any TT. i've yet to see a repair bill above for a single run TT/fc ( okay the day tryed 3-3 with only bm axe as dd it was above 100k..) cleric use that atleast on mp charm, barbs just use, uhhh my repair bill as excuse cos they'r dam noobish.

    btw it doesnt matter who do the job, veno hercless, barb, bm whatever just party know what do do, and the job get done. if som1 say he/she can do the job regardless of class, let them try.
    I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender

    102 - Archer - Heartz
  • Michael_Dark - Lost City
    Michael_Dark - Lost City Posts: 9,091 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Personally, I see more people asking for clerics than anything else.
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    then again i don't have $200 to buy a herc, id much rather be a barb than pay that

    There is no valid reason why you could not have farmed a herc for as long as you've been playing.
    I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.
  • FranzKafka - Dreamweaver
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ok fail and broke barbs(and I'm one of those that are broke)ask for Hercs to tank bosses?Then I bet are the same that QQ about venos soloing TTs.
    Now this is my point of view of both tank and DD.Why and really why would you make something such a herc tank when it can't keep aggro even if I ****.Really now a crazy DD makes it hard work sometimes even to a skilled tank if he wants.
    As a barb I will never have a herc tank anything while I'm in(few exceptions like when you dual with a veno but that's rare).Also as a DD where I actually risk my **** when i steal aggro i wan't a tank,and by tank i mean a real one not something made in china like the herc.I don't wanna fight with white voodoo on so i don't steal aggro and do 400 dmg.What's the point of beeing a DD.
    I myself am a veno lover since i have an addiction to bramble but when it comes to lazyness because of the barbs or arrogance from venos(I has herc I can tank anything) I don't know and I don't care...frick off.
    Anyway don't take those WC serious mostly oracle noobs or just noobs or just people you'd like to stay away anyway.
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    all i see across WC is "Veno + Herc wanted for FF"

    so i thought id ask someone why this is the case (convo of a person advertising on WC for a party and me)

    image3af.png

    the sum up i get is, Veno's are now the new tanks because barbs are too lazy to do what a barb should do, im not pointing fingers or flaming off but this new "craze" is leaving a lot of the "better" Veno's out of the action.

    in my eyes the barb should be tanking and we have done runs in 1Hr this way.

    am i wrong or being a bit "im not happy coz i cant go?", constructive criticism please

    Seriously, it's their squad, they can ask for Herc Venos. If you wish to join all FF squads, then make an investment.

    By refusing to spend coins / gold on a herc and qq about it, makes you sound childish.

    It's their squad, their choices.
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ok fail and broke barbs(and I'm one of those that are broke)ask for Hercs to tank bosses?Then I bet are the same that QQ about venos soloing TTs.
    Now this is my point of view of both tank and DD.Why and really why would you make something such a herc tank when it can't keep aggro even if I ****.Really now a crazy DD makes it hard work sometimes even to a skilled tank if he wants.
    As a barb I will never have a herc tank anything while I'm in(few exceptions like when you dual with a veno but that's rare).Also as a DD where I actually risk my **** when i steal aggro i wan't a tank,and by tank i mean a real one not something made in china like the herc.I don't wanna fight with white voodoo on so i don't steal aggro and do 400 dmg.What's the point of beeing a DD.
    I myself am a veno lover since i have an addiction to bramble but when it comes to lazyness because of the barbs or arrogance from venos(I has herc I can tank anything) I don't know and I don't care...frick off.
    Anyway don't take those WC serious mostly oracle noobs or just noobs or just people you'd like to stay away anyway.

    I think it all boils down to the fact that you are lazy. It's your job as a DD to control DPS, by WHATEVER means necessary. Having a HERC tanks just need you to be more careful.

    Seriously, a DD is a like a DOT spell, you assist to do damage on the target, with the freedom to stop / nerf your damage down.

    Thank god you are not on HT.

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