Why do people recommend BUYING TT mats?
Comments
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-some mats are cheap as dirt: IE monarch's will is 50-75k on my serverSheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why the hell would i spend money on something i can get for free? To me, it just doesn't make sense. TT runs are not difficult, and i find them quite fun. I usually do the runs with my cleric, cuz it's usually easier to find a squad that way, but even with mana costs, it's still worth it to get the mats you need. I just find it odd that whenever people are recommending armors and weps to people approaching TT level, they tell them, "Oh, start saving for your TT60 Wep" or "Start saving for your TT70 Armor" or whatever. Pfft. I'd rather do the runs and save my coin for something else.
Anyway, this is just my opinion on this...what do u guys think?
-some mats squads just wont give up: IE gold ones
-sometimes you arent always guarenteed to get you needed one on a run
buying is a plenty efficient way of acquiring them.0 -
Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »"Everybody gets an equal share" is great.
As soon as every boss starts dropping six mats, we can do that.
Its not about a boss dropping six mats. But why should the subber and tank get the most expensive mats that drop and get their needs met, while the DD's run time after time and always get the ****?
I ONLY squad with people who understand that everyone in the squad has needs. I usually run with the same squad, we don't split mats. I bank them, we give out what people actually need for the gears/weap they are needing to make. I put the rest in the a/h, sell them and the next time we are in a squad all together for another tt, I drop the coins we earned on the ground, pick them up and they are split by 6.
THIS IS FAIR! However; finding people who are willing to do this is tough depending on who you are.
The old saying, " you are known by the company you keep " applies here. If you hang around people who scam others, are greedy and only care about themselves maybe you should look in a mirror.
I surround myself by people as giving as I am. We sometimes play pass the stuff b/c none of us WANT to take anything. People who are that nice, are people I call my friends on this game.0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Its not about a boss dropping six mats. But why should the subber and tank get the most expensive mats that drop and get their needs met, while the DD's run time after time and always get the ****?
I ONLY squad with people who understand that everyone in the squad has needs. I usually run with the same squad, we don't split mats. I bank them, we give out what people actually need for the gears/weap they are needing to make. I put the rest in the a/h, sell them and the next time we are in a squad all together for another tt, I drop the coins we earned on the ground, pick them up and they are split by 6.
THIS IS FAIR! However; finding people who are willing to do this is tough depending on who you are.
The old saying, " you are known by the company you keep " applies here. If you hang around people who scam others, are greedy and only care about themselves maybe you should look in a mirror.
I surround myself by people as giving as I am. We sometimes play pass the stuff b/c none of us WANT to take anything. People who are that nice, are people I call my friends on this game.
K+
I agree. Unfortunately there are lot of greedy idiots.b:angry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Its not about a boss dropping six mats. But why should the subber and tank get the most expensive mats that drop and get their needs met, while the DD's run time after time and always get the ****?
I ONLY squad with people who understand that everyone in the squad has needs. I usually run with the same squad, we don't split mats. I bank them, we give out what people actually need for the gears/weap they are needing to make. I put the rest in the a/h, sell them and the next time we are in a squad all together for another tt, I drop the coins we earned on the ground, pick them up and they are split by 6.
THIS IS FAIR! However; finding people who are willing to do this is tough depending on who you are.
The old saying, " you are known by the company you keep " applies here. If you hang around people who scam others, are greedy and only care about themselves maybe you should look in a mirror.
I surround myself by people as giving as I am. We sometimes play pass the stuff b/c none of us WANT to take anything. People who are that nice, are people I call my friends on this game.
ok i know im gonna get comments like you are a greedy **** for this but
why do you share coins from not needed and sold mats if some people in that squad already got mats they needed which could be off a much higher worth then the total split i mean why do you give them more coins to i could understand give people mats they need but exile them from the coin split by that so everyone gets a somewhat equal share o well just my opnionits impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
just try to be a good person
english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts0 -
I would go further than that. Subs cost, what, 70-210k? What's the max barb repair bill or cleric charm bill for a TT run with a non-fail group? 100k? 200k?OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »Its not about a boss dropping six mats. But why should the subber and tank get the most expensive mats that drop and get their needs met, while the DD's run time after time and always get the ****?
For most TTs, that's the cost of 1 mid-grade mat. If you want to favor subbers, barb, and cleric, that's fine. But that favoritism should mean they get one extra mid-grade mat, not the ability to pick the 1 mil mat over the 250k mat. It's basically a huge scam, and just wrong. I think a lot less of barbs and clerics for going along with it instead of doing the right thing and arguing against it.
I just note everyone's names, handle the sales, and mail out the money. That way there's no need to get all 6 people online and in the same group at a later time. Most of my faction is used to this by now, so they vouch for me when a non-faction party member joins one of our TT runs. In the end everyone is happy.I ONLY squad with people who understand that everyone in the squad has needs. I usually run with the same squad, we don't split mats. I bank them, we give out what people actually need for the gears/weap they are needing to make. I put the rest in the a/h, sell them and the next time we are in a squad all together for another tt, I drop the coins we earned on the ground, pick them up and they are split by 6.
THIS IS FAIR! However; finding people who are willing to do this is tough depending on who you are.
We do pre-announce when we are doing a run specifically to get someone mats. But if you do too many "get mats for someone" runs in a row, the people not getting anything do start to get annoyed. The key is to mix it up. Do one run specifically to get mats for the person who just made level 90, then do the next run with the mats sold and profits split. Or give the person who needs the mats what they need, but sell the rest of the mats and split the profits between everyone else.
The one random TT squad I joined, I flat out said I didn't want any mats because I didn't want to deal with or take part in any of the BS about picking orders.0 -
Why every1 telling about cleric charm. What about mine mana spend? Is much higher than cleric mana spend and nobody care. And I always pick the last. Thanks for perfect stones.b:angry It should be equal for all squad expenses.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »ok i know im gonna get comments like you are a greedy **** for this but
why do you share coins from not needed and sold mats if some people in that squad already got mats they needed which could be off a much higher worth then the total split i mean why do you give them more coins to i could understand give people mats they need but exile them from the coin split by that so everyone gets a somewhat equal share o well just my opnion
It would be different if I squaded with different people for this all the time. But its always the same 6 people. Today I might get 3 mats I need. Tomorrow it will be someone else. For instance everyone needed 5 forshuras arms. Today person a gets all the arms, tomorrow person b does. Sub cost is taken out of mat sales. Everyone splits mirages/crusades to make up for repairs. Its a win/win situation for all 6 of us involved. We make money, all get our needs met and we all have a good time.Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »I would go further than that. Subs cost, what, 70-210k? What's the max barb repair bill or cleric charm bill for a TT run with a non-fail group? 100k? 200k?
My husband is a lvl 89 barb. We go with people we know are competent. My last repair bill from this was like 7k, his was 30 or 40k. If you are having to spend 200k on a repair bill for a tt your lvl your squad is fail. Read the above about the subs.
For most TTs, that's the cost of 1 mid-grade mat. If you want to favor subbers, barb, and cleric, that's fine. But that favoritism should mean they get one extra mid-grade mat, not the ability to pick the 1 mil mat over the 250k mat. It's basically a huge scam, and just wrong. I think a lot less of barbs and clerics for going along with it instead of doing the right thing and arguing against it.
This is the big problem and why the TT system currently is messed up. No 1 person should be favored over another. It takes all squad of 6 people to make the TT efficient. All 6 people should benefit the same. So what if the barbs repair bill is more, he gets healed by the cleric his charm doesn't tick(or shouldn't) much. Everyone has charm/pot/event/arrow/repair cost. Everyone should be treated equal. On HT I see this happening more and more and I like it.
I just note everyone's names, handle the sales, and mail out the money. That way there's no need to get all 6 people online and in the same group at a later time. Most of my faction is used to this by now, so they vouch for me when a non-faction party member joins one of our TT runs. In the end everyone is happy.
When I use my above stated methods, its only with the same squad of people. If they aren't all online and I go with other people I make sure they know up front what my expectations are. If they don't agree to it, I leave. Or I help other people who need mats just for the sake of helping and take a mirage for compensation of my repair cost etc.
We do pre-announce when we are doing a run specifically to get someone mats. But if you do too many "get mats for someone" runs in a row, the people not getting anything do start to get annoyed. The key is to mix it up. Do one run specifically to get mats for the person who just made level 90, then do the next run with the mats sold and profits split. Or give the person who needs the mats what they need, but sell the rest of the mats and split the profits between everyone else.
The one random TT squad I joined, I flat out said I didn't want any mats because I didn't want to deal with or take part in any of the BS about picking orders.
The TT mat distribution "rules" need to be revamped. Whoever started this subber gets first pick then tank then cleric etc... needs to be pked repeatedly. This does not work for anyone who isn't the subber or the tank.0 -
Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »Why every1 telling about cleric charm. What about mine mana spend? Is much higher than cleric mana spend and nobody care. And I always pick the last. Thanks for perfect stones.b:angry It should be equal for all squad expenses.
I know this will be a double post but I had to respond!
I have a lvl 74 wizard. I know exactly what you mean. I always got to pick last in TT. I never got what I needed. At level 73 I had to buy what few tt gears I got b/c I never could get what I needed in a squad. Wizard was my second char. Archer was my 4th
I learned a lot since then and I am more specific about how I do things. If you ever want good people to run TT's with look me up. We are on the same server. 0 -
Ty much. I appreciate your offer. Maybe I will take your hand in future. Fortunately I recently changed the job so I earning much more money, but I have less free time, so for me is better to send gold and buy TT mats. But in past it was exactly as you said. b:thanksOneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »I know this will be a double post but I had to respond!
I have a lvl 74 wizard. I know exactly what you mean. I always got to pick last in TT. I never got what I needed. At level 73 I had to buy what few tt gears I got b/c I never could get what I needed in a squad. Wizard was my second char. Archer was my 4th I learned a lot since then and I am more specific about how I do things. If you ever want good people to run TT's with look me up. We are on the same server.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Have to agree on the subber and repair bill thing being rubbish. Try telling a squad that tries that excuse...
"Ok guys. I'll pay your sub costs...AND barbs repair bill. In exchange I get first choices in all mats drops. Deal?"
Technically that should be an auto awesome-deal they'd instantly agree on. But they'd laugh you out of the TT. Why? Because they know full well that subs+total repairs is a few hundred k absolute tops, and first choice in mats can be the difference of 500k+ (or even 1m in the case of a GBA in 3-1)0 -
_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Have to agree on the subber and repair bill thing being rubbish. Try telling a squad that tries that excuse...
"Ok guys. I'll pay your sub costs...AND barbs repair bill. In exchange I get first choices in all mats drops. Deal?"
Technically that should be an auto awesome-deal they'd instantly agree on. But they'd laugh you out of the TT. Why? Because they know full well that subs+total repairs is a few hundred k absolute tops, and first choice in mats can be the difference of 500k+ (or even 1m in the case of a GBA in 3-1)
LOL, as an archer and usually last to pick; I'd not only offer that. But would also offer to pay the repair bill of everyone in the squad to have first pick. You are right.. rubbish!
They whine and complain, but if you changed the roles in this way; they'd shut up. I think everyone should get the same amount. If a gold mat drops then the person who wants it should pay everyone in the squad a reduced price for the mat, if there is no prior arrangement like the one I've mentioned in this thread.0 -
yay this turned into a whine that i get last pick in mats thread.0
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I have an 85 Archer and a 92 Cleric. My Archer was my first class and I know what it feels like. That being said....
The only people I'd agree to help outside the current system is the people in my faction or good friends.
Outside of that - the only time I'd violate the system currently set up is in a TT money run (Sell mats and split evenly between everyone). Keep in mind that is NOT fair to the Clerics who DO spend more than any other class in TT.
The system is set up the way it is because Barbs are the rarest class - and Clerics have the highest expenses (easily) of all the classes. Our charm ticks just from buffing everyone. It costs 400 mana to demon IH someone, 1200 Mana for Demon aoe heal, 800 mana to wings someone, the debuffs are 200 ea, 100 mana a second to BB/RB, it even costs ~1k mana just to res someone - and you have your mana regen cut b/c you're in combat (debuffing - attacking when you can like any decent cleric should).... you end up spending hundreds of K easily in 2/3 - I won't even go into the cost for clerics in 3-2/3-3...... that's with herbs too.
Clerics pick before DDs because it's ONLY FAIR.
Compare this to an archer who uses around 4k in arrows and ends up with a 30k repair fee. (Might use a few pots if you're using Soulsmasher).
If you want the system to change - go with guildies or friends or offer to provide some herbs for the cleric. Don't just expect us to get shafted for your benefit.0 -
Clerics fine. Decent clerics are awesome and will burn a charm to bits in a long TT, if they do their job well I have no issue with a cleric taking first pick.
What I'm talking about is players getting first pick because of tiny repair bills (usually bumps veno down a few notches on pick order, even if they tank or DD). Or subber getting first pick. Pay 70-140k...get first choice from millions worth of mats? I'll sub any day for that.0 -
Ok I SAY IT AGAIN!!!I have an 85 Archer and a 92 Cleric. My Archer was my first class and I know what it feels like. That being said....
The only people I'd agree to help outside the current system is the people in my faction or good friends.
Outside of that - the only time I'd violate the system currently set up is in a TT money run (Sell mats and split evenly between everyone). Keep in mind that is NOT fair to the Clerics who DO spend more than any other class in TT.
The system is set up the way it is because Barbs are the rarest class - and Clerics have the highest expenses (easily) of all the classes. Our charm ticks just from buffing everyone. It costs 400 mana to demon IH someone, 1200 Mana for Demon aoe heal, 800 mana to wings someone, the debuffs are 200 ea, 100 mana a second to BB/RB, it even costs ~1k mana just to res someone - and you have your mana regen cut b/c you're in combat (debuffing - attacking when you can like any decent cleric should).... you end up spending hundreds of K easily in 2/3 - I won't even go into the cost for clerics in 3-2/3-3...... that's with herbs too.
Clerics pick before DDs because it's ONLY FAIR.
Compare this to an archer who uses around 4k in arrows and ends up with a 30k repair fee. (Might use a few pots if you're using Soulsmasher).
If you want the system to change - go with guildies or friends or offer to provide some herbs for the cleric. Don't just expect us to get shafted for your benefit.
Cleric DOESN'T have more expenses as me. If we talking about mana. So why you still QQ about cleric charm? Did you see wizard mana burn? Every 3!!!s I burn 510 mana. What you talking about?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I have an 85 Archer and a 92 Cleric. My Archer was my first class and I know what it feels like. That being said....
The only people I'd agree to help outside the current system is the people in my faction or good friends.
Outside of that - the only time I'd violate the system currently set up is in a TT money run (Sell mats and split evenly between everyone). Keep in mind that is NOT fair to the Clerics who DO spend more than any other class in TT.
The system is set up the way it is because Barbs are the rarest class - and Clerics have the highest expenses (easily) of all the classes. Our charm ticks just from buffing everyone. It costs 400 mana to demon IH someone, 1200 Mana for Demon aoe heal, 800 mana to wings someone, the debuffs are 200 ea, 100 mana a second to BB/RB, it even costs ~1k mana just to res someone - and you have your mana regen cut b/c you're in combat (debuffing - attacking when you can like any decent cleric should).... you end up spending hundreds of K easily in 2/3 - I won't even go into the cost for clerics in 3-2/3-3...... that's with herbs too.
Clerics pick before DDs because it's ONLY FAIR.
Compare this to an archer who uses around 4k in arrows and ends up with a 30k repair fee. (Might use a few pots if you're using Soulsmasher).
If you want the system to change - go with guildies or friends or offer to provide some herbs for the cleric. Don't just expect us to get shafted for your benefit.
So you believe (just trying to get this straight) that someone who spends 50k more than me on repairs/pots etc.. deserves to get a mat that nets them 500k more than me? Since clerics and barbs seem to be the class revered above all others, go do your TT's with a barb and a cleric only. Most veno's/archers/wizards can tank many tt bosses. That said... we can sell what we get and it don't matter. However; you may have a bit of a problem with just a barb and a cleric killing a boss.
First... the barb does insignificant damage compared to archer/veno/wizard and now sin and psy. Secondly, once the barb is dead; no one else to alt tank the mob/boss. Both dead...b:surrenderb:cryb:cry0 -
Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok I SAY IT AGAIN!!!
Cleric DOESN'T have more expenses as me. If we talking about mana. So why you still QQ about cleric charm? Did you see wizard mana burn? Every 3!!!s I burn 510 mana. What you talking about?
Demon Ironheart = 400MP every 2 seconds. That's 200 MP/s. 510MP/3s = 170 MP/s. Cleric wins (or loses, really).0 -
Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Demon Ironheart = 400MP every 2 seconds. That's 200 MP/s. 510MP/3s = 170 MP/s. Cleric wins (or loses, really).
You talking about this?
Range 28.0meters
Mana 400.0
Channel 1.0 second
Cast 1.0 second
Cooldown 1.0 second
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments
Requisite Cultivation Aware of the Void
Bless the target to recover 1200 HP plus 35%
of your base magic attack and 300 MP over 15 seconds.
RDemon version also recovers 300 MP over 15 seconds.
Also how often you have to use this spell?
Wizard.
Sage stone rain.
Range 30.0meters
Mana 375.0
Channel 1.6 seconds
Cooldown 6.0 seconds
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments
sage gush
Range 30.0meters
Mana 256
Channel 1.0 seconds
Cooldown 3.0 seconds
375+256=631 mana for 2.6s=242mana/s
With -channeling gear is it even worse. ;-)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok I SAY IT AGAIN!!!
Cleric DOESN'T have more expenses as me. If we talking about mana. So why you still QQ about cleric charm? Did you see wizard mana burn? Every 3!!!s I burn 510 mana. What you talking about?
The majority of wizards use pyro/gush macro on repeat with the occasional spark in TT. Lets ignore the increased MP regen you get from your water shield and increased mana capacity from Wellspring.
IIRC you are a Demon Wiz Mum; 256 mana every 3 seconds + 265 mana every 3 seconds = 87 mana a second.
Demon IH costs 400 mana and it recharges every second (with -chan it isn't 2 seconds a cast but lets pretend this instance it is). That's 200 mana a second.
?0 -
Ah you're sage - bad memory. Kay so you add in stone rain - lets say your macro is Stone Rain - Pyro - Gush - Stone Rain - Pyro- Gush..... etc etcMumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »You talking about this?
Range 28.0meters
Mana 400.0
Channel 1.0 second
Cast 1.0 second
Cooldown 1.0 second
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments
Requisite Cultivation Aware of the Void
Bless the target to recover 1200 HP plus 35%
of your base magic attack and 300 MP over 15 seconds.
RDemon version also recovers 300 MP over 15 seconds.
Also how often you have to use this spell?
Wizard.
Sage stone rain.
Range 30.0meters
Mana 375.0
Channel 1.6 seconds
Cooldown 6.0 seconds
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments
sage gush
Range 30.0meters
Mana 256
Channel 1.0 seconds
Cooldown 3.0 seconds
375+256=631 mana for 2.6s=242mana/s
265 + 256 + 375 every 12 seconds = ~75 mana a second
?0 -
The majority of wizards use pyro/gush macro on repeat with the occasional spark in TT. Lets ignore the increased MP regen you get from your water shield and increased mana capacity from Wellspring.
IIRC you are a Demon Wiz Mum; 256 mana every 3 seconds + 265 mana every 3 seconds = 87 mana a second.
Demon IH costs 400 mana and it recharges every second (with -chan it isn't 2 seconds a cast but lets pretend this instance it is). That's 200 mana a second.
?
You are wrong. On my wizard I rarely use the water shield. Incase I take aggro the HP regen on the fire shield is more important. Or the physical damage reduction with the earth shield.
The majority of wizards shouldn't use pyro/gush ONLY even in a TT. I would hope they are smart enough to use the skills that are needed for the boss they are doing. For instance, it would be stupid to use pyro on a fire boss. They are resistant to fire...
One thing you also forgot, is dragons breath. But no one wants to think about that, because a wizard is always more expendable than a cleric. DD's are easier to replace than clerics for whatever reason this is the thinking of todays PWI noob oracle lvlers.0 -
The majority of wizards use pyro/gush macro on repeat with the occasional spark in TT. Lets ignore the increased MP regen you get from your water shield and increased mana capacity from Wellspring.
IIRC you are a Demon Wiz Mum; 256 mana every 3 seconds + 265 mana every 3 seconds = 87 mana a second.
Demon IH costs 400 mana and it recharges every second (with -chan it isn't 2 seconds a cast but lets pretend this instance it is). That's 200 mana a second.
?
Did you see my example above?
BTW I'm sage wizard.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
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Yeah it's not every 12 seconds. Keep in mind that the cooldowns don't matter for wizards in MP/s calculations, since they're casting in rotation. Only the channel/cast times matter.Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »From where did you took 12 second? Check my example above.0 -
6 second cooldown on stone rain - 3 second on gush/pyro. Never played a wizard - just using the info you provided.Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »From where did you took 12 second? Check my example above.0 -
Ah, I see.Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »Yeah it's not every 12 seconds. Keep in mind that the cooldowns don't matter for wizards in MP/s calculations, since they're casting in rotation. Only the channel/cast times matter.
How did you come up with your numbers Mum - I'm not understanding the method.0 -
OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »You are wrong. On my wizard I rarely use the water shield. Incase I take aggro the HP regen on the fire shield is more important. Or the physical damage reduction with the earth shield.
The majority of wizards shouldn't use pyro/gush ONLY even in a TT. I would hope they are smart enough to use the skills that are needed for the boss they are doing. For instance, it would be stupid to use pyro on a fire boss. They are resistant to fire...
One thing you also forgot, is dragons breath. But no one wants to think about that, because a wizard is always more expendable than a cleric. DD's are easier to replace than clerics for whatever reason this is the thinking of todays PWI noob oracle lvlers.
I've never seen a Wizard use dragon's breath in an instance to DD. That's about as fail as using barrage in an instance.
Edit: By an instance I mean TT.. not talking about RB etc.0 -
Sage Pyro: 1.5s channel, 0.8s cast, 265 MP.
Sage Gush: 1s chan, 1s cast, 256 MP.
So, 2.5s channel, 1.8s cast. Probably safe to chop off at least 0.5s from the channeling to account for -chan gear, so call it 521 MP every 3.5s. Still less than a full-on Demon Ironheart spam. That said, a cleric won't be Ironheart spamming all the time, and BB's MP/s cost is lower, at only 100MP/s.
I'm gonna have to say that which class uses more MP depends on the situation. Don't run enough TTs myself to call it either way, since the numbers are situational.0 -
Ah, I see.
How did you come up with your numbers Mum - I'm not understanding the method.
ok np I will explain.
Sage stone rain is channeling time 1.6s but mana spend is 375mana.
Another gush is channeling time 1s and mana spend is 256.
So 1.6s + 1s = channeling time on these 2 spells is 2.6s.
Mana spent on these 2 spells is 631 mana. So 631/2.6s=242.69 mana/s
If I'm correct.
If we add another spell pitfall is chanelling 1s and mana spend is 320.
Together it would be 256+375+320=951mana for 3.6s
931/3.6=264.1 mana/s[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
...wasn't this thread about TT mats?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
9x Demon Cleric0
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