Why do people recommend BUYING TT mats?

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver

Why the hell would i spend money on something i can get for free? To me, it just doesn't make sense. TT runs are not difficult, and i find them quite fun. I usually do the runs with my cleric, cuz it's usually easier to find a squad that way, but even with mana costs, it's still worth it to get the mats you need. I just find it odd that whenever people are recommending armors and weps to people approaching TT level, they tell them, "Oh, start saving for your TT60 Wep" or "Start saving for your TT70 Armor" or whatever. Pfft. I'd rather do the runs and save my coin for something else.

Anyway, this is just my opinion on this...what do u guys think?

Dyskrasia - Heavens Tear

Sometimes it's just more convenient to buy than to farm, especially if you aren't somebody who gets first pick in a squad.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

If you're not a cleric:

I run TT. time is gone. I get last pick.
I run TT. time is gone. I get last pick.
I try to run TT, I can't even find a freaking squad...

Chances of me getting mats out of TT? Basically zero.

Sure, I can farm the first couple of bosses, but that stuff is worthless junk.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Also, if you find something cheap enough that is refined fairly high its cheaper to do that then to make it yourself and refine it.

Example:

I have an assassin that is 10 lvls from needing tt 60 weapon. I was looking in the a/h for my husband some tt 90 dual axes and happened to see a tt 60 set of daggers that were +5 with 2 flawless shards in them for 2 million coins. I can't even buy a +5 dragon orb for that. Let alone the time it would take to farm all the stuff to make those.

I can now go farm tt and sell all the stuff I get and not have to bother with refining my weapon. Was a win/win for me. Also up until lvl 80 or 90 tt gears are relatively cheap. 2 or 3 mil for something even refined to a +3 or 4 is cheap, especially if it has decent shards already in it.

Its all in how you look at it, and what your time is worth. Would you rather have money (tt) or experience (ff)? And everything in between just have to find what suits you best. If you want to farm everything go ahead, and have a blast doing it.

Damewort - Sanctuary

Cause there are some mats which are rather hard to get. Like forshura's armor for TT70 or Forshura's arm, not talking about AE drops from 2-3. It is much easier to get moeny for those mats from other TT runs than to actually farm them. And if there are more people in squad who needs that mat... well, then... buying the mat is best choice.

If you are lucky to get a squad where everyone needs some mats from the certain TT, then you can try to make a deal that you run it till everyone gets what they need. That's how I and some of my ex-guildies got all GBAs we needed for TT90. I ended buying only few arms for my TT90 gears and dusts of star.

And actually... after gear problem is solved, it gets quite easy to earn money back. Is it better to keep running with TT70 weapon for a while even in 80s or is it better to get TT80 fast and earn money back from TT money runs?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

There is nothing worng with buying mats, and sometimes it's cheaper to just buy a few than waste your time running a whole instance for just a mat or two.

To farm, you need to find a group of similarly leveled people to do runs with. That can be the difficult part if you're not in a larger faction, or one with a group of people in your level range. This whole 'first pick/last pick' **** is BS. It doesn't work. You split the mats equally at the end, or you help each other farm the runs you need until everyone gets what they need.

After you do this a few times, you start to form a group of people who will desire to farm for both mats and coin, and then it becomes easy. The hardest part is reaching out to actually find these non-greedy people who will help you with your runs knowing that you'll be helping them on the next run.

Even if you don't need the same mats or bosses, your 'group' might need 1-3 or 2-2, so you run one, then run the other one for the people who need that. In several days or a week or so, you'll all end up with the mats you need and will have learned how to do it yourselves.

This is the basic principle that I've helped teach in the last faction that I was in. I tworks quite well, but someone needs to get off their ****, start asking people if they need runs, and actually start creating the parties... when people see you're doing this successfully, more people will want to join.

Of course, you'll find the epic greed and epic fails, but you'll also find good people that you'll be able to run instances with... This also works with regular BH partners too.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

I am a BM, which means I am a DD in TT runs. If I run random squads, I will be the last one to get the mat if I am the lowest level. That sucks a lot. I can try to get the mats by running TT, but often I won't be able to do that.

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver

I agree that it sometimes becomes necessary to buy them when u can't get them thru runs, but IMO, buying something should be a last resort, not a first one. As far as getting last pick, yea that sux, but patience and perserverence usually work out in the end i think (at least it usually does for me).

As a sort of aside to this topic...why the hell do venos get lumped in with DD's when deciding pick order? In a normal squad, they're luring, meaning they should go 3rd, not based on the "DD by level" thing:

1. barb (for tanking)
2. cleric (for healing)
3. veno (for luring)
4. DD's by lvl

Sadly, however, how things SHOULD be and how things ARE rarely match up.

Paigrande - Harshlands

Sometimes you wont find it easy to farm stuff and at same time do other things thats y it is easier for ppl to buy TT mats they couldnt have time or a chance to farm it. :P

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

There is nothing worng with buying mats, and sometimes it's cheaper to just buy a few than waste your time running a whole instance for just a mat or two.

To farm, you need to find a group of similarly leveled people to do runs with. That can be the difficult part if you're not in a larger faction, or one with a group of people in your level range. This whole 'first pick/last pick' **** is BS. It doesn't work. You split the mats equally at the end, or you help each other farm the runs you need until everyone gets what they need.

After you do this a few times, you start to form a group of people who will desire to farm for both mats and coin, and then it becomes easy. The hardest part is reaching out to actually find these non-greedy people who will help you with your runs knowing that you'll be helping them on the next run.

Even if you don't need the same mats or bosses, your 'group' might need 1-3 or 2-2, so you run one, then run the other one for the people who need that. In several days or a week or so, you'll all end up with the mats you need and will have learned how to do it yourselves.

This is the basic principle that I've helped teach in the last faction that I was in. I tworks quite well, but someone needs to get off their ****, start asking people if they need runs, and actually start creating the parties... when people see you're doing this successfully, more people will want to join.

Of course, you'll find the epic greed and epic fails, but you'll also find good people that you'll be able to run instances with... This also works with regular BH partners too.

I do this with my faction. 4 of them need tt 80 gears, we go farm til everyone has what they need. Highest lvl/closest to needing the gears gets mats first, then so on down the line.

But you hit it, finding ppl who aren't greedy is the key. So what if an antenna consumer of soul is worth 700k=1mil. Big deal, my faction member who always helps me out needs my help for once. Rarely do people see it this way... but it would be nice if more did.

I often go help on lower tt's and leave with nothing all the time. Being an archer though I do ask for all the arrows Which everyone is happy to oblige.

I honestly think this is the best way to run tt's if you are going to farm for your gear. I agree the subber/tank/cleric dd by lvl thing is bs too. Totally unfair subber and tank get their needs met but no 1 else does.

Damewort - Sanctuary

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a sort of aside to this topic...why the hell do venos get lumped in with DD's when deciding pick order? In a normal squad, they're luring, meaning they should go 3rd, not based on the "DD by level" thing:

1. barb (for tanking)
2. cleric (for healing)
3. veno (for luring)
4. DD's by lvl

Sadly, however, how things SHOULD be and how things ARE rarely match up.

If world was perfect... and if veno does all tanking, then it should look something like this:
1. Veno
2. Cleric
3. Rest by whatever criteria you like b:chuckle

Unfortunately it doesnt look likes this. And quite often if veno asks for first pick, it will get answer "Go solo then!" b:chuckle
---
On bit more serious note:
Quite soon you will encounter squads where veno doesn't even get to pull (unless some bosses). Barb and cleric tends to get first pick, cause they they have bigger costs - repairs, mp charms/food.
No matter how much I don't like to tell it... veno's costs are small. Some mp pots (more if you have hp charm), maybe some pet food (get sacrificial pulling pet and no costs from dead pulling pet), small repair costs (5-20k). So roughly, veno spends 30-50k for one TT run and it only DDs, lures, debuffs, buffs (if herc-less veno).

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Why the hell would i spend money on something i can get for free? To me, it just doesn't make sense. TT runs are not difficult, and i find them quite fun.

Nothing is free. The time you spend doing a TT run is worth something. It's time you could've spent doing something else.

For time on a TT run vs. time spend grinding, the TT run will nearly always be worth more. So if you're thinking in terms of time spent in a TT vs. time spent grinding, yes doing the TT run makes sense.

But you can't control what mats you get (or don't get) on a TT run. Say you need 8 Ape's Teeth from 2-1. You do a couple runs and get 4 Ape's Teeth and a bunch of other mats you don't need. Which makes more sense: Continuing to do TT2-1 until you get 4 more Ape's Teeth? Or selling the mats you don't need and using the money to buy 4 more Ape's Teeth?

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a sort of aside to this topic...why the hell do venos get lumped in with DD's when deciding pick order? In a normal squad, they're luring, meaning they should go 3rd, not based on the "DD by level" thing:

1. barb (for tanking)
2. cleric (for healing)
3. veno (for luring)
4. DD's by lvl

Sadly, however, how things SHOULD be and how things ARE rarely match up.

No.

It SHOULD be like this:

- Everybody gets an equal share.

I've never been lucky enough to get into a squad like that though. Also, you should stop complaining - every squad I ran in always put venos above DDs anyway. So really, don't moan, because even if you do end up in share order BS squads, you should end up coming before DDs.

Frankly, unless I actually find people willing to do the "need before greed" thing, and farm TT together with me until we all have what we need, I'm going to need to buy mats. The chances of an archer getting a GBA in TT in share order?

0%

Unless somehow six of them drop, which isn't likely to ever happen, ever.

It's okay for a veno. Even in share order you have the potential to do well. Yes, it's terribly expensive, but if you save up and get a Herc you can go farm some of your own mats. I can't do that. So it's all very well you complaining that people say "start saving for TT x0 gear" but maybe stop and consider that some classes will have to do that, because squads and share order is too unkind for them to be able to farm their gear.

Thank god I'm married to a barbarian, and he's willing to farm with me for my mats. Even if it goes slowly, we'll abuse this same share order that normally screws me over and I'll get what I need. There are still some people left who understand it's not all about share order and being greedy.

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

"Everybody gets an equal share" is great.

As soon as every boss starts dropping six mats, we can do that.

Quilue - Sanctuary

drops should be equal share, and so should charm/repair costs. then no one gets jipped. just sell the damn mats and split

when i go WB hunting with another archer and a cleric, we sell the shards, pay the cleric her charm, then split the rest 3 ways. we don't pick up a perfect citrine shard, "oh the cleric should have this entire shard worth 3m because she lost 300k worth of charm...wait...what else is left?" that doesn't make sense, then wtf were we there for? lol

Astoru - Heavens Tear

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree that it sometimes becomes necessary to buy them when u can't get them thru runs, but IMO, buying something should be a last resort, not a first one. As far as getting last pick, yea that sux, but patience and perserverence usually work out in the end i think (at least it usually does for me).

As a sort of aside to this topic...why the hell do venos get lumped in with DD's when deciding pick order? In a normal squad, they're luring, meaning they should go 3rd, not based on the "DD by level" thing:

1. barb (for tanking)
2. cleric (for healing)
3. veno (for luring)
4. DD's by lvl

Sadly, however, how things SHOULD be and how things ARE rarely match up.

As a DD, I usually get boned by this rule. A lot of times I'd get paired up with a barb and a cleric that will take the good mats just to sell them.

Which is why I rarely go to TT now, except with people that I trust.

Mahdust - Harshlands

Honestly i don't like buying the mats and getting the gear made, I just buy the next level already made and sell my old gear. It's more than often cheaper that way because the gear im buying is sharded and has refine, while i can sell my old gear for more because it's sharded and refined as well.

(<- just got an Endless Ambiguity for 4.5m off an auction, +2 with an immac sapp, I +5'd it with the refining aids from the tb chain quest. Now i can sell my tt70 for an easy 1.5m, so i spent 3m on my tt80 that's beast as hell, and it should have cost me around 4-5m just to buy the mats, not including my tt70.)

As for farming the mats, only some classes can do this, and there are other ways of making money.

Vinat - Sanctuary

most of the time when i go, even if there is a barb, im the one tanking. half the time im the one banking too. and most of the time, all the mats get sold and coin split amongst everybody but the subber, who called a specific mat and gets that mat. when i need a specific mat, i sub. and usually when somebody wants a gold mat, they sub and buy it from the team at a reduced price.

and i dont think ive ever encountered a priority share (where barb or whoever picks first, somebody else picks second). its usually only the subber who calls mats.

now with that said, equal share isnt always equal. personally i hate going with other venos, because they end up doing nothing (never luring, not even using pet on bosses, theyre much lower lvl so their dd isnt even noteworthy) yet they get the same cut as everybody else. to me thats not fair because theyre not exactly deserving.

as for buying mats.. for my 90 set.. i was like 93. still didnt have all my mats. i needed gba and forshuras arms. couldnt find anybody to help do wurlord for the arms, so i bought them all. and after the previous 5 runs of 3-1 dropping no gba, i decided to buy the rest i needed.

XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver

Here's my luck:

- I run as a cleric, team decides to split by level and needs.
- I run as a BM, team decides to split tank/cleric/DD by order.

Except once, and I actually got a decent share in that one - but I was the cleric.

So let's see... I'm screwed on both ends. I just take whatever, sell whatever, and buy whatever. I'm actually beginning to wonder if there's a problem with me. That or I've got no luck whatsoever.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I agree that it sometimes becomes necessary to buy them when u can't get them thru runs, but IMO, buying something should be a last resort, not a first one. As far as getting last pick, yea that sux, but patience and perserverence usually work out in the end i think (at least it usually does for me).

As a sort of aside to this topic...why the hell do venos get lumped in with DD's when deciding pick order? In a normal squad, they're luring, meaning they should go 3rd, not based on the "DD by level" thing:

1. barb (for tanking)
2. cleric (for healing)
3. veno (for luring)
4. DD's by lvl

Sadly, however, how things SHOULD be and how things ARE rarely match up.

A.) Time is money, and 90% of the time it's better coin:time ratio to farm/gather coins & buy the mats than to run instances.

B.) wtf? I can lure any boss/mob a wf can b:angry, and that's why as anything but wb/ep you're pretty much getting screwed to go in hh unless you're getting to sub.

Amsel - Sanctuary

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a sort of aside to this topic...why the hell do venos get lumped in with DD's when deciding pick order? In a normal squad, they're luring, meaning they should go 3rd, not based on the "DD by level" thing:

1. barb (for tanking)
2. cleric (for healing)
3. veno (for luring)
4. DD's by lvl

Sadly, however, how things SHOULD be and how things ARE rarely match up.

XD lots of ppl dont like this it seems, but again luring? i nvr do that anymore and if i do its with a zeal. or ok >.> maybe wurlord when i actually do him. and when i tt i tank just about everything, just started tanking ape on 2-2. only thing i dont tank in there is wur. But everything should be a fair split otherwise dds wouldnt go. PPl with that kind of thinking make others buy the matts cause its just a waste of their time. besides blah blah good deals easier. and look 3 bhs a day! who has time for tt?!

Sangodoc - Dreamweaver

In the TT squads I've been in the mats have generally been distributed based on need, i.e. if you don't have a TT weapon yet then you get the mats you need before other people, and then the rest are distributed as evenly as possible. But then again, these have been faction runs, so it's been more about helping out the faction than making money.

Amsel - Sanctuary

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No.
I

It's okay for a veno. Even in share order you have the potential to do well. Yes, it's terribly expensive, but if you save up and get a Herc you can go farm some of your own mats. I can't do that. So it's all very well you complaining that people say "start saving for TT x0 gear" but maybe stop and consider that some classes will have to do that, because squads and share order is too unkind for them to be able to farm their gear.

why do ppl say this o.o even at 98 i have nvr done tt ALONE. its too timely/ costly and annoying @.@. there is no way u can quickly make back the atm 70-90mil its costing for a herc like that. just dumb >.< go with a small group of ppl but nvr alone >:O

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

wf? wb? ep?

And yeah, our ability to lure isn't important in TT.

Our ability to freaking do more damage than the rest of the squad put together? That ought to count for something.

Oh, and our ability to tank? Verry little in there we can't pet-tank.

No, none of that counts for anything, it seems.

But hey, last pick will work out in the end? Right. It isn't possible to get the gold mats from last pick unless, somehow, more than four drop. When does that ever happen?

Sadpuma - Heavens Tear

Vitenka - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you're not a cleric:

I run TT. time is gone. I get last pick.
I run TT. time is gone. I get last pick.
I try to run TT, I can't even find a freaking squad...

Chances of me getting mats out of TT? Basically zero.

Sure, I can farm the first couple of bosses, but that stuff is worthless junk.

You shouldnt allow yourself to be walked over like that.... If you are amping you bring more dmg to the boss than any one other person does. Additionally, if you tank any of the bosses with a herc or other pet, you are the one doing the tanking and the work of both the cleric and barb.

The veno class brings more to the table for bosses than bm's, archers, barb's (unless you cant tank it) and wizzie's.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

My faction helped me get most of the mats I needed for my TT90 armor, but before that I mostly bought all of my mats because I had terrible luck in random squads. Didn't run as many with my veno as, being lower in the list, I never got what I needed. But the last three in a row I tried with my cleric I didn't even get second pick. Or third. Or last. They gave me nothing at all.

I am tired of being screwed out of stuff by groups that insist you use BB places where it is not even really necessary, just killing the charm and with no profits to make up for it. So now, if I can't go in a faction group, I just buy the mats.

Celestyna - Heavens Tear

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a sort of aside to this topic...why the hell do venos get lumped in with DD's when deciding pick order? In a normal squad, they're luring, meaning they should go 3rd, not based on the "DD by level" thing:

1. barb (for tanking)
2. cleric (for healing)
3. veno (for luring)
4. DD's by lvl

Sadly, however, how things SHOULD be and how things ARE rarely match up.

about a year ago I remember watching my bf tank bosses with his herc before most people had one. and still would get lumped into the DD group.. even though the barb didnt have to tank but 1-2 bosses the whole run. to add insult to the injury he was lowest level so he got 6th pick.. he did all the work tank+healer and got 6th pickb:angry


from there on we started doing runs either he or i would sub and i would ask each person what they needed as they joined, write it down and note it for each. if more then one needed a certain mat id ask them how many do you need to see who was closest to finishing. normally I would take no mats and just distribute them to the people who need them, maybe taking mirages or a mat no one needed to pay for my charm use


In groups we are invited in that use the order system me and my bf disguss what we need, if he needs say gba and i need a cheaper mat i will take the gba for him since i get pick sooner and he will grab the mat i need if its still available. if i need nothing at all then i just grab whatever mats he needs and give them to him


Back before we left for awhile we got to running with the same group of friends. barb(low 80), wizard(low 80), archer(low 70), veno(low 80) and cleric(mid 80). we all sorta needed diffrent tt runs so we started with the archer since her runs were fast and easy, got her geared up. then moved up to the 80 gears doing the same type thing making sure each person got the mats they needed. everyone split the sub cost if they were going to be getting mats.


in short. run with a good group or sub so you get first pick or have a barb/cleric on your side ^^

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

I stopped doing TT except I need it for chrono quest. Why? Because in not worth my time.
1. I always pick as last one(so garbage)
2. I spend much more mana than cleric. But just cleric get refund of his expenses.
3. I rather spend some real money like 3h in TT.
4. Idiots in squad. Sometimes.

Admante - Dreamweaver

...
...
Buy second hand equips.
Skywalker shell +4 w/ 3 immac cits = AH @ 8m
Skywalker shins +4 w/ 3 immac cits = AH @ 7.5m
Skywalker boots +2 w/ 2 flaw cits = trade for Lunar chaser boots +2 w/ 2 flaw cits

Price of all the mats to make it?
5 GBA = 7.5m
5 Dust of stars = 1.5m
5 Antennae = 4.5m
5 Sacred Mother's Orb = 1.5m
5 Sorceress's Hand = 1.5m
5 Evil Minion's Horn = Neglegible
36 US = 2.5m
Plus shards and refines

It's not a one time thing either. My TT80 green set was +3/+4/+5 with shards and costed about the same as making it with mats myself.

By all means, keep making those green gears. It makes life so much easier for people like me.

This doesn't apply for gold gear.

Taranta - Dreamweaver

I was gathering for my TT70 (before classes started and I needed to take a break), but I stopped going with non-faction members because I've gotten screwed over too many times. The final straw was on a TT1-2 run with a random group. The first cleric died, so they brought a second one in to rez them. Finished the rest of it (1 boss), with me running most and keeping people from doing stupid things. It comes time to pick and I get put behind this 2nd cleric. I've burned around 30k off my hp charm and this little cleric gets to pick before me. If I had known the people, I would've been shouting at them.

At this point, I'm looking for gear in the AH when I get a chance to go in game. Any tt runs that I do with faction mates will be purely for profit. Too many idiots in-game nowadays.

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary

I have yet to find a faction that has brought me on more than two TT runs to help me get mats. I've done plenty of "charity" runs and helped other people get mats, but when it comes to "hey can anyone help me farm suchandsuch in TT-whatever".....blank response. Even starting a TT with even share gets no response. Random squads? Well after doing 2 of those which took about a weeks search....never again. A handful of mirages and the 20k rubbish-mats that don't sell.

So yeh. That's why I'm factionless atm, and that's why I'm grinding coin like crazy to buy my TT90 set.