The Return of Anniversary Pack Discussion Thread

Anavere - Heavens Tear

_DarkSeph_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Basically they either give 15 "tokens of luck" which you can trade for a massive variety of rare and hard to get items...or a small chance of getting pretty much every single piece of end-game and insanely rare high level gear. For the price of 1$. Thanks to the anniversary pack, with enough money and without putting in any work or real gameplay you can literally buy a level 100 character with the best equips in the game at max refinement.

As a side effect of this, it drastically drives up the demand for gold, pretty much more than doubling the price of any boutique item, including all fashion, mounts, charms, aerogear, refinement aids, legendary pets... and so on, making the only option for obtaining them to spend real life cash.

That's the general opinion of it anyway. Fortunately you can still play for fun easily enough without packs, but they still annoy the majority regardless. (We used to have a game where the economy was so stable almost anything in the boutique was affordable with ingame coin if you saved up enough)

Thank you for your answer Just to make it really clear, it's almost a guarantee you get very good items from anni packs or is it just a small chance and you have to buy a lot of them or just get really lucky?

So - Raging Tide

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If people did not buy gold with their in game coin, then the gold sellers would not sell it.

Because people do buy gold with in game coin, the gold sellers do sell it.

Gold sellers set a 'lowest sale' price. This will be the lowest that they will sell their gold. If it sells well, they may increase the price at which they sell gold to see if it sells as well. If it does, they may raise the price again. If it doesn't, they will lower the price.

So, so far, what we can see here, is... people who aren't paying directly for gold... are the ones setting the prices.

You say that gold sellers are greedy, and I agree with you. I am greedy. If I can sell my gold for more money, then I will. Because when I sell something I look to make the most out of it.
Why should I sell my gold for 200k, if people are willing to buy it for 400k? It's like asking somebody to sell a ring worth one million dollars for $500k so that you can afford it. Sadly the world and it's economics does not work that way.

Yes, gold sellers are greedy. But this is because we look to optimise profits, just like you look to optimise your spending by buying things cheaply.

I will give you an example.
Let us say you see an two FC weapons you can use in the AH. They are exactly the same, with two sockets, imbued with two garnet/sapphire gems and are +5.
One of them is priced at 10 million.
The other one, exactly the same, is priced at 20 million.
You wouldn't by the expensive one, would you? No, because you would be wasting money.

Reverse the situation for gold sellers, and there you have it.
You're just as greedy as we are.

^
win.

too bad, those ppl see this fact and maybe understand it too, but they just need to rant b:shutup

Aelric - Lost City

I despise annipacks , the first time it was "Ugh, okay they are nice but look at gold prices," Second time, "WTF?" Third, then I quit, but not because of annipacks, now I'm back and BAM! annipacks xD

I think annipacks have outlived themselves.

Kannone - Heavens Tear

Anavere - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you for your answer Just to make it really clear, it's almost a guarantee you get very good items from anni packs or is it just a small chance and you have to buy a lot of them or just get really lucky?

K for you, this:

Research "Bournelli distribution" and learn all you can about the probability theory.

Then find the anniversary packs' reference page at pwdatabase.com/pwi to get an estimate of the % of success*.

^Then synthesize the information gathered from the above steps to determine how many packs you'll need to open to A.) break even (remember that tokens are worth approx. 19k atm, more if we save them), and B.) to make a profit. Finally you shall PM me on the forums with your findings b:dirty


*Note: pwdatabase.com isn't officially maintained by PWI, so we don't know for certain how accurate their numbers are.

Aelric - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If people did not buy gold with their in game coin, then the gold sellers would not sell it.

Because people do buy gold with in game coin, the gold sellers do sell it.

Gold sellers set a 'lowest sale' price. This will be the lowest that they will sell their gold. If it sells well, they may increase the price at which they sell gold to see if it sells as well. If it does, they may raise the price again. If it doesn't, they will lower the price.

So, so far, what we can see here, is... people who aren't paying directly for gold... are the ones setting the prices.

You say that gold sellers are greedy, and I agree with you. I am greedy. If I can sell my gold for more money, then I will. Because when I sell something I look to make the most out of it.
Why should I sell my gold for 200k, if people are willing to buy it for 400k? It's like asking somebody to sell a ring worth one million dollars for $500k so that you can afford it. Sadly the world and it's economics does not work that way.

Yes, gold sellers are greedy. But this is because we look to optimise profits, just like you look to optimise your spending by buying things cheaply.

I will give you an example.
Let us say you see an two FC weapons you can use in the AH. They are exactly the same, with two sockets, imbued with two garnet/sapphire gems and are +5.
One of them is priced at 10 million.
The other one, exactly the same, is priced at 20 million.
You wouldn't by the expensive one, would you? No, because you would be wasting money.

Reverse the situation for gold sellers, and there you have it.
You're just as greedy as we are.

I love your logic (really do, it actually makes sense!), except one thing is missing. Why do people buy gold with ingame coin? Because we can't spend real money and instead grind for what we have, but how could we afford to keep buying expensive gold? We can't, the higher lvls/people who have spent real money/people receiving money from owning territory/lazy people who can't make it to the store to recharge/people who can't w8 for prices to lower/etc. are the ones who keep buying the gold no matter how high it goes.

Aelric - Lost City

Kannone - Heavens Tear wrote: »

K for you, this:

Research "Bournelli distribution" and learn all you can about the probability theory.

Then find the anniversary packs' reference page at pwdatabase.com/pwi to get an estimate of the % of success*.

^Then synthesize the information gathered from the above steps to determine how many packs you'll need to open to A.) break even (remember that tokens are worth approx. 19k atm, more if we save them), and B.) to make a profit. Finally you shall PM me on the forums with your findings b:dirty


*Note: pwdatabase.com isn't officially maintained by PWI, so we don't know for certain how accurate their numbers are.

yes. oor use 6th grade probability skills and guessimation and a graphing calculator and BAM! (graphing calculator because this is america, we have to overdo everything)

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear

Well congratz PWI... You made it so rich and poor ppl get seperated in game now... Which means the poor harworking ppl will soon be chased off by the rich ones... Realy nice job... Same goes for selling lvles... Realy funny when someone who bought their lvles has a big mouth and flee's at the sec you bring your strongest char you spent months in to lvl... This all realy makes it a game... Verry nice... So when is this game becomming P2P? That way we never have to deal with poor ppl wo work so hard for their stuff again and the rich and lazy ones can act like they own it all...

In case someone didn't notice this is full sarcasm... You obviously see ppl break the economy with those kind of stuff and it's mainly because you can't decide wether to keep the packs or not... Packs gone = lower gold price... Packs forever = loss of interrest = lower gold price... See... How simple is that... But oh no... You ppl rather suck the pocket money out of ppl so you make them believe every time it is their last chance getting the packs and that they can make huge profit with it after a few months... With this you devs can finaly get that expensive car you always wanted right? If you say it is not about greed then go ahead and prove you players wrong... All you have to do is decide for once and for all... b:bye

Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver

Wait... anniv packs are back? Does that mean more spam from the duke? b:cry

BlindApathy - Lost City

I had been drinking alot tonight and when I saw anni packs amongst the assortment of the blow out sale, I damn near puked b:chuckle

MR_Hankie - Lost City

This thread should be torched to the grown^^

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Yuna_Sama - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well congratz PWI... You made it so rich and poor ppl get seperated in game now... Which means the poor harworking ppl will soon be chased off by the rich ones... Realy nice job... Same goes for selling lvles... Realy funny when someone who bought their lvles has a big mouth and flee's at the sec you bring your strongest char you spent months in to lvl... This all realy makes it a game... Verry nice... So when is this game becomming P2P? That way we never have to deal with poor ppl wo work so hard for their stuff again and the rich and lazy ones can act like they own it all...

In case someone didn't notice this is full sarcasm... You obviously see ppl break the economy with those kind of stuff and it's mainly because you can't decide wether to keep the packs or not... Packs gone = lower gold price... Packs forever = loss of interrest = lower gold price... See... How simple is that... But oh no... You ppl rather suck the pocket money out of ppl so you make them believe every time it is their last chance getting the packs and that they can make huge profit with it after a few months... With this you devs can finaly get that expensive car you always wanted right? If you say it is not about greed then go ahead and prove you players wrong... All you have to do is decide for once and for all... b:bye

remember to keep flaming to a minimum, we dont wanna locked thread...

remember guys, none of this:

Kannone - Heavens Tear

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

keep flaming to a minimum... this:

bwahahahahahaha

Jennalicious - Sanctuary

MR_Hankie - Lost City wrote: »

This thread should be torched to the ground.^^

Fixed. And no, the anny pack making factory should be burned to the ground.

StormHydra - Sanctuary

Anni pack making factory eh? Lets nuke it. b:sin

Yaxana - Sanctuary

I'm starting to lose any hope I had for this game. I haven't played PWI for the past few weeks and I don't even miss it. All the fun that I had in this game is now gone.

volst

It's xmas... can't PWI give one away free for every level 10+? b:dirty

Iseria - Harshlands

Yaxana - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm starting to lose any hope I had for this game. I haven't played PWI for the past few weeks and I don't even miss it. All the fun that I had in this game is now gone.

same, i have been playing it weeks at odds, till the beginning of december when i dropped it, then came back for new class and dropped it again.

Saiyu - Raging Tide

O____O

Creapy

Kinohki - Lost City

The problem that The Kin has with anni packs is the fact they give weapons and armor. Not just weapons and armor but end game weapons and armor. Creating balance issues like that between Free players and Paying players is one thing a company should never do, but the damage has already been done.

If they do decide to keep them permanent then The Kin believes they should take out ANY chances of weapons or armor that the packs give. Skill books and such are fine as they don't influence the battles near as much as say, an 85 GOLD FROST weapon that utterly wtfpwns stuff. Leave the tokens in there and the other stuff and take out the weapons. Mitigate the damage that's already been done and the value of the packs would probably drop as demand would decrease. (After all, who buys the packs for things other than the weapons anyways?)

That's the Kin's two copper. Games should never, never, never, never, EVER offer weapons or armor for pay, especially not end game. Anyone that earned their frost gear or armor the hard way, it's like a giant slap in the face to them. People should earn the right to be "uber" not pay for it. While yes, The Kin can see people's points on jobs etc, they could still be competitive if people had to farm for their weapons as less people would have strong weapons to begin with. Make money off of mounts, aerogear clothing and such, but not weapons. There are plenty of consumable items that could be put in cash shop in stocks (jiaozi, scrolls, etc.) Also, on another note, levels should never be sold (oracles..).

/Shrug.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Kinohki - Lost City wrote: »

The problem that The Kin has with anni packs is the fact they give weapons and armor. Not just weapons and armor but end game weapons and armor. Creating balance issues like that between Free players and Paying players is one thing a company should never do, but the damage has already been done.

If they do decide to keep them permanent then The Kin believes they should take out ANY chances of weapons or armor that the packs give. Skill books and such are fine as they don't influence the battles near as much as say, an 85 GOLD FROST weapon that utterly wtfpwns stuff. Leave the tokens in there and the other stuff and take out the weapons. Mitigate the damage that's already been done and the value of the packs would probably drop as demand would decrease. (After all, who buys the packs for things other than the weapons anyways?)

That's the Kin's two copper. Games should never, never, never, never, EVER offer weapons or armor for pay, especially not end game. Anyone that earned their frost gear or armor the hard way, it's like a giant slap in the face to them. People should earn the right to be "uber" not pay for it. While yes, The Kin can see people's points on jobs etc, they could still be competitive if people had to farm for their weapons as less people would have strong weapons to begin with. Make money off of mounts, aerogear clothing and such, but not weapons. There are plenty of consumable items that could be put in cash shop in stocks (jiaozi, scrolls, etc.) Also, on another note, levels should never be sold (oracles..).

/Shrug.

You don't directly buy gear with anni packs. You are gambling with the chance of getting one, which you can also do with coins and not real money. On the other hand, where your analogy falls on it's face is that you can buy gold with real money, buy coins, and buy the end game gear that way too. So now what? Remove gold trading entirely?

Lots of "should's" and not much practicality I see in your post.

FranzKafka - Dreamweaver

Poster above is right,it's not above removing the anni packs it's about removing the end-game gear they give.You can charge a milion zhen and you still couldn't buy those without anni packs since it's rare equip made with even rarer drops.Point is don't sell/gamble end game gear.Then again i'm on a carebear server and i just ignore those rich noobs.

XJinxx - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You don't directly buy gear with anni packs. You are gambling with the chance of getting one, which you can also do with coins and not real money. On the other hand, where your analogy falls on it's face is that you can buy gold with real money, buy coins, and buy the end game gear that way too. So now what? Remove gold trading entirely?

Lots of "should's" and not much practicality I see in your post.

without anniversary packs (like if it never existed) you would not be able to straight out buy that stuff for at least a year. if say, the only lunar orns and weps on the server were ones that were actually farmed, people probably wouldn't even sell that considering the time they took to actually farm it. it's endgame gear, not some paltry TT90. do you see people selling TT99s? i can see mats being on the market at best, and even then you'd still have to go farm the gold mats yourself or make from chips (which you would've had to obtain by running cube or BH100, if packs never existed)

his point doesn't fail because packs basically made it retardedly easy and fast to get endgame gear.

also, i LOVE what they did to their own oracle sale! what a joke.

Jibreel - Harshlands

jingle bells jingle bells jingle all the way b:laugh