Bm loosing its awsomeness

DeathX - Lost City
DeathX - Lost City Posts: 14 Arc User
edited November 2009 in General Discussion
Ok i want to discuss something about bms. The expansion is coming soon and it kinda pisses me off now that thier is a new race and to tell u why is because when the new race is out what is the point of a Bm now. i looked at al the tideborns skills and now that i see them bms are toataly useless now.Every class in PWI IS NoW OVERPOWERING THEM. the tideborns now have longer stuns and awsome aoes along with fast DD skills and on top of that we have a new mag dmg class and thats the last thing we need if ur a bm. i just want ur opinion on this topic.
Post edited by DeathX - Lost City on
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Comments

  • Alyyy - Sanctuary
    Alyyy - Sanctuary Posts: 3,165 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    um.... usefull for the dragon o.o?

    BMs are great for aoe grindingb:surrender

    and bms have a heal so thats good o.o
    Clerics are like cops...they always seem to be around.....until you actually need one b:surrender - DeadRaven
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    And BMs are still gonna be the offtank. (Plus we can't be 100% certain on how exact these new skills are, their cool-down times, costs, etc).

    Closest class to getting replaced by Assassins are archer (Dex based DD that relies on fast physical attacks anyone?) and even then archers have the advantage of ranged attacks... well kinda.

    If you honestly think the new classes are gonna replace BMs, either you've never seen a GOOD one playing, or you're still at a lower level with your one and haven't played it to it's full potential.
  • IDaun - Dreamweaver
    IDaun - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    You could say the same for wizzies in regards to the psychic class.

    Either way, it's common sense that archers, wizzies, and BMs are gonna be shoved out of squads for the tideborn. It's no longer going to be 3 classes vying for 3 spots in a 'rainbow' squad, it's gonna be 5 classes vying for 3 spots. That is, if the tideborn are deemed 'unnecessary'. If they're wanted more in squads for their usefulness... well, then it'll be even harder.

    Then again, we haven't seen their skills (how much it costs, etc) yet, so, we don't know how OP they are. They seem it at the moment, but, hey, maybe the devs aren't completely stupid.

    One can hope.

    EDIT: I'm a big fan of BMs, unless they are 'leroy jenkins' ones. I know how useful they can be. But, as the forums and ingame has shown-- not a lot of people understand the usefulness of any classes other than Barb/Cleric/Veno.
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  • Kedth - Sanctuary
    Kedth - Sanctuary Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    New classes will give more flexibility to the game and squads, being able to assemble them on different ways now.

    No class is going to outcast other one... not BMs, not archers, not wizzies... as long of course, the user of that char knows how to do his job.... that's another completely different story

    (says "Hi" to the oracle noobs b:bye)
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Hmm I do not seeing Archers being replaced by Assassins any time soon even after Tideborns are released.

    Understand that Assassins, however cool and OP their skills sound, wear LA and melee. This means that theyre effectively squishy melee DDers <.<. One could try going for HA using the archer HA build but we dont know how well that would affect their weapon selection of even skills.

    They could probably match an archer in DD but if that happens, the poor cleric (feel sorry for them at this point), would end up having to heal a tank and the assassin. Archers usually are out of the AoE range or very close to the cleric.

    And BMs...cmon guys you simply cannot replace a class that uses a lot of AoE skills and is tuned for HAs with a melee squishy.

    Psychics are primarily a magic debuffer class. They would not match a wizard in terms of damage. While its good to have a pyschic/assassin around, the other classes dont become entirely useless with their introduction. If you truely feel you class has been made obosolete by the tideborns, then go roll one yourself :)
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    There have only ever been 4 classes in PWI, and that's not changing:

    1) Cleric
    2) Barb
    3) Veno
    4) and the rest
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Kannone - Heavens Tear
    Kannone - Heavens Tear Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    DeathX - Lost City wrote: »
    i just want ur opinion on this topic.

    ★BMs with axes can never be replaced. HF + mage dooms can 1-hit barbs.

    ★BM stuns are epic and without them this game would be... different.


    That's my opinion at least... b:surrender
  • Kedth - Sanctuary
    Kedth - Sanctuary Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There have only ever been 4 classes in PWI, and that's not changing:

    1) Cleric
    2) Barb
    3) Veno
    4) and the rest

    Actually there are 2, and that's not changing either:

    1. Competent ppl who can do their job no matter their class.
    2. The rest.

    These days the 2nd group is increasing quite fast
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Kedth - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Actually there are 2, and that's not changing either:

    1. Competent ppl who can do their job no matter their class.
    2. The rest.

    These days the 2nd group is increasing quite fast
    It's a nice sentiment, sure, but let's face reality. A lot of times you NEED a Cleric, sometimes you NEED a Barb, a Veno doesn't NEED anybody but themselves. And then there's the rest. Competent or not, they're interchangeable.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Hmm I've seen a barb my level ask me (an archer) what flesh ream was when i asked him to use it while doing BH51 since i was stealing aggro pretty easily with just normal shots :|. Maybe he was drunk or never bothered learning the required skill or knew it by some other name or playing a friend's character for the first time.

    In any case, people who do their job well will always be needed irrespective of the class.
  • Kedth - Sanctuary
    Kedth - Sanctuary Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's a nice sentiment, sure, but let's face reality. A lot of times you NEED a Cleric, sometimes you NEED a Barb, a Veno doesn't NEED anybody but themselves. And then there's the rest. Competent or not, they're interchangeable.

    You need clerics im not going to deny that... i mean.... who the hell would dare to... those guys save our butt. Barbs? sure, love them. They can tank a nuke, make everything easy on bosses and such. Venos can solo we alll know that... but coming to a MMO to solo is quite lame and they can be used in squads for a LOT of things.

    But then again... all classes have some kind of a role on PWi. Some are more rewarded than others? Ok, i dont mind, suck it up and play, or reroll. Easy huh?
    But saying there are 3 classes on PW is plain... well, u know the word. But dont come to me later QQing about repairs and charm ****... u could u know... squad with some DDs to make it WAY faster... oh wait, there are only 3 classes on PW...

    b:bye
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Hmm I've seen a barb my level ask me (an archer) what flesh ream was when i asked him to use it while doing BH51 since i was stealing aggro pretty easily with just normal shots :|

    In any case, people who do their job well will always be needed irrespective of the class.

    Yeah.... umm.... that's the fastest way for archers to steal aggro since normal attacks maximize their DPS (especially when you start to add more and more -interval)

    Now if you were spamming skills and the barb still couldn't keep aggro, something would have been REALLY wrong. Well... aside from the barb not knowing what ream was...

    Kedth - Sanctuary wrote: »
    But then again... all classes have some kind of a role on PWi. Some are more rewarded than others? Ok, i dont mind, suck it up and play, or reroll. Easy huh?
    But saying there are 3 classes on PW is plain... well, u know the word. But dont come to me later QQing about repairs and charm ****... u could u know... squad with some DDs... oh wait, there are only 3 classes on PW...

    b:bye
    He is including DDs. They're part of the third class: all the rest b:laugh
  • WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary Posts: 1,686 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Hmm I've seen a barb my level ask me (an archer) what flesh ream was when i asked him to use it while doing BH51 since i was stealing aggro pretty easily with just normal shots :|. Maybe he was drunk or never bothered learning the required skill or knew it by some other name or playing a friend's character for the first time.

    In any case, people who do their job well will always be needed irrespective of the class.
    Sure, I agree, but competency isn't class dependent, so it's a side-issue in a discussion about the benefits/strengths of particular classes.

    If somebody asks me about how the classes are balanced in the game I'm not going to tell them, "They don't matter, because competency is what matters," when I know that actually, classes do matter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • DeathX - Lost City
    DeathX - Lost City Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    truekossy wrote: »
    And BMs are still gonna be the offtank. (Plus we can't be 100% certain on how exact these new skills are, their cool-down times, costs, etc).

    Closest class to getting replaced by Assassins are archer (Dex based DD that relies on fast physical attacks anyone?) and even then archers have the advantage of ranged attacks... well kinda.

    If you honestly think the new classes are gonna replace BMs, either you've never seen a GOOD one playing, or you're still at a lower level with your one and haven't played it to it's full potential.

    um................. im currently lvl 89 this is a alt i was trying out for a diffrent build {fist}
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    DeathX - Lost City wrote: »
    um................. im currently lvl 89 this is a alt i was trying out for a diffrent build {fist}

    See what I mean?

    BMs have 4 weapon trees for a reason and most higher leveled ones (that I know of) do go multipath for all four. If you're making a different build for fist, which leads me to assume your current BM can't or doesn't use on-level fists and have fist based skills leveled up well, then it just shows part of what I was saying about not using your BM to its full potential.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Closest class to getting replaced by Assassins are archer (Dex based DD that relies on fast physical attacks anyone?) and even then archers have the advantage of ranged attacks... well kinda.
    this really makes me wonder... WHY would they make a melee weapon rely on DEX for damage? that absolutely does not make sense. DEX in almost all MMOs increases ranged damage, i dont think daggers are ranged :P.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    truekossy wrote: »
    Yeah.... umm.... that's the fastest way for archers to steal aggro since normal attacks maximize their DPS (especially when you start to add more and more -interval)

    Now if you were spamming skills and the barb still couldn't keep aggro, something would have been REALLY wrong. Well... aside from the barb not knowing what ream was...



    He is including DDs. They're part of the third class: all the rest b:laugh

    Well the point was not about saying which class is better or more useful here just emphasing on the fact that just because you make a popular class doesnt you get called into squads. If you dont know youre class, be it whoever, a boot is what would be given.

    And true, regarding DPS, am a 67 archer using crappy 5x equips with no interval or +dex gear and cross bow <.<. Thats pretty much easy on any barb (a good one) my level.

    @Waffle
    Agreed but then again half the things in this game doesnt make sense :P

    Assassins sound similar to the ones we used to face. Always cowering in fear from the tanks and the DDs :P
  • DeathX - Lost City
    DeathX - Lost City Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    for some reason they wont let me show my mains avatar so im stuck with this one
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    this really makes me wonder... WHY would they make a melee weapon rely on DEX for damage? that absolutely does not make sense. DEX in almost all MMOs increases ranged damage, i dont think daggers are ranged :P.

    Oooh! I know!

    The devs said to **** the rules and want a class that can match the almighty axe throwing archer, so now assassins are going to stand on walls with magic and throw daggers at people. b:victory
  • DeathX - Lost City
    DeathX - Lost City Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    truekossy wrote: »
    See what I mean?

    BMs have 4 weapon trees for a reason and most higher leveled ones (that I know of) do go multipath for all four. If you're making a different build for fist, which leads me to assume your current BM can't or doesn't use on-level fists and have fist based skills leveled up well, then it just shows part of what I was saying about not using your BM to its full potential.

    fisr of all i never said i dident multi wep at my cureent lvl im a demon of course ill multi wep axe,fist and sword.b:chuckle
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    truekossy wrote: »
    Oooh! I know!

    The devs said to **** the rules and want a class that can match the almighty axe throwing archer, so now assassins are going to stand on walls with magic and throw daggers at people. b:victory
    for some reason though, when i think assassin, i think more like those twin dagger wielding classes from the .****// series. *anime nerd* maybe have dagger throwing as a skill, but not completely relying on it, thatd sound dumb @_@.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Kedth - Sanctuary
    Kedth - Sanctuary Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    DeathX - Lost City wrote: »
    fisr of all i never said i dident multi wep at my cureent lvl im a demon of course ill multi wep axe,fist and sword.b:chuckle

    Then why play again BM from the start if u multipath? b:chuckle

    I mean, u can use fists too dont you lol

    Or do you want to go pure fists from day one? If u lvl enough you will go multipath again then and you will have, well, 2 very similar chars XP
  • DeathX - Lost City
    DeathX - Lost City Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    this really makes me wonder... WHY would they make a melee weapon rely on DEX for damage? that absolutely does not make sense. DEX in almost all MMOs increases ranged damage, i dont think daggers are ranged :P.

    well as i did do reaserch on the tideborn skills they did have 4 ranged attacks that throws daggers but idk if its true
  • DeathX - Lost City
    DeathX - Lost City Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Kedth - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Then why play again BM from the start if u multipath? b:chuckle

    I mean, u can use fists too dont you lol

    Or do you want to go pure fists from day one? If u lvl enough you will go multipath again then and you will have, well, 2 very similar chars XP

    yup pure fist but the aoes on the axe looked awsome so i decided to multi wep lol and also this is my bros char on my acc so i decided to help him out
  • Xegeth - Dreamweaver
    Xegeth - Dreamweaver Posts: 389 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    @WarrenWolfy: That is a very narrow-minded point of view. Not really surprised it's coming from a barb as well (Not saying all barbs are narrow-minded, but I sometimes see that tendency).

    Maybe it's because I am just a replaceable DD, but I see a huge difference in squadding with a BM than with a second wiz for example. They have other strengths and other weaknesses and influence the surviveability, killing speed on different typed of mobs and playstyle of the whole squad.

    I value good BMs in my squad a lot, cause they are somewhat a mixture of a second barb and a DD.

    I tried a lot of different squads and it's just not true that it doesn't make a difference which squad members you pick beside cleric/barb/veno. Oh and btw, it ain't really a problem to do BHs without a barb. The fastest and safest BH79 runs for me were with two good BMs and no barb. The so called "Main Squad" cleric/barb/veno is just a common stereotype in this game. The one class that comes closest to "always needed" is the cleric. Won't deny that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kedth - Sanctuary
    Kedth - Sanctuary Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Xegeth - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    @WarrenWolfy: That is a very narrow-minded point of view. Not really surprised it's coming from a barb as well (Not saying all barbs are narrow-minded, but I sometimes see that tendency).

    Maybe it's because I am just a replaceable DD, but I see a huge difference in squadding with a BM than with a second wiz for example. They have other strengths and other weaknesses and influence the surviveability, killing speed on different typed of mobs and playstyle of the whole squad.

    I value good BMs in my squad a lot, cause they are somewhat a mixture of a second barb and a DD.

    I tried a lot of different squads and it's just not true that it doesn't make a difference which squad members you pick beside cleric/barb/veno. Oh and btw, it ain't really a problem to do BHs without a barb. The fastest and safest BH79 runs for me were with two good BMs and no barb. The so called "Main Squad" cleric/barb/veno is just a common stereotype in this game. The one class that comes closest to "always needed" is the cleric. Won't deny that.

    And i say ahmen to that b:chuckle
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    at teh OP...

    QQ LESS
    b:angry

    if anything the DD classes are being replaced more by the new races....

    Assassin = .....not a tank by definition....
    psychic..... = skill set looks like a weird cross between a wizard and a cleric. b:chuckle

    so...if anything....wizards and archers should QQ more (but we not!...for the most part... xD)
    BMs still have that heaven's flame thingy along with the aoe stuns...
    b:sweat
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  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    for some reason though, when i think assassin, i think more like those twin dagger wielding classes from the .****// series. *anime nerd* maybe have dagger throwing as a skill, but not completely relying on it, thatd sound dumb @_@.

    Heh. Twin blades are teh win.

    And now that you have me thinking of .**** I'm going to want to go replay Quarantine or some of GU when I'm done forumwhoring b:surrender
  • Mosabi - Heavens Tear
    Mosabi - Heavens Tear Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »
    There have only ever been 4 classes in PWI, and that's not changing:

    1) Cleric
    2) Barb
    3) Veno
    4) and the rest

    okay cya go do some FB89 with only barb cleric and a veno.....cya in a couple of days.b:bye
    Is Back once more.

    sorry med school needs some time.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Mosabi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    okay cya go do some FB89 with only barb cleric and a veno.....cya in a couple of days.b:bye

    ^this lols....
    they going to be stuck in there for hours~~~
    b:chuckle
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
    Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
    LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
    Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
    Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
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