PvP Game Without Carebears = Shallow & One-Sided

RedsRose - Lost City
RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
edited October 2009 in Arigora Colosseum
Taken from an Article...Interesting read too.....What do you think?

"Many community members have begun to rally already against the "carebears," even though that group is a vocal minority, and even question why anyone would want to play a "blue" when playing red was so profitable. And yet, an interesting perspective caught my eye: an open PvP game, especially as a sandbox, needs carebears.

No need to rub your eyes or reread that last sentence: the suggestion really is that a PvP centered game, without carebears, becomes "shallow and one-sided."

Think of it this way: carebears, on a simple level, make sure that the world is rich in lore, worth exploring, and worth spending time in. The difference between a game that you hook up for an hour long fragfest and an MMO isn't simply the time you spend; it's the world you spend it in. An MMO opens up opportunities for all kinds of players: explorers, achievers, role-players, loot and boss hunters, and PvPers. By taking away the richness of the community, you take away the richness of the world. Carebears exist among all these groups, and while they may try to complicate things by insisting on moral enforcement through game rules rather than in-game communities, they also provide that "something more" beyond looking for the next fight over the hill.

Carebears are the characters that, when you get a chance to kill them, earn you easy loot and the satisfaction of a "pwn." More importantly, carebears are the reason that the anti-PK fact exists at all; for what is an anti-PKer but a PK himself under the guise of good? As the saying goes, "One of irony's greatest accomplishments is that one cannot punish the wrongdoing of another without committing a wrongdoing himself." Or, to provide a silly illustration of the symbiosis, the carebear is the damsel in distress tied up and laying on the railroad tracks, while the PKer plays the part of mustache-twirling villain, and the anti-PKer plays the dashing Dudley Do-Right.

All three groups need each other for the game's survival. Take away the carebear, and the anti-PK loses his mission; take away the anti-PK, and the tide turns red with grief; take away the PKer and - well, we've seen the ending of that story in countless MMOs."

Full Story Here
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RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
Post edited by RedsRose - Lost City on

Comments

  • Brab - Lost City
    Brab - Lost City Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I'm going to say this is invalid because the person assumes that these people spend ALL their time in PVP. That's not feasible. Everyone has to carebear it up at some point, or you'll never level, get new skills, etc.

    Still an interesting article.
  • eatwithspoons
    eatwithspoons Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    The game that he is referring to is actually almost all PVP, Even if people PK sometimes and carebear at other times the concept he presents still applies.

    Nice article overall even if I don't agree 100%
  • Brab - Lost City
    Brab - Lost City Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I think the primarily PVP aspect of said game is what made it enjoyable: without said pvp it would have been what some other (mostly failed) MMOs were at the time, an endless grind.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    The game that he is referring to is actually almost all PVP, Even if people PK sometimes and carebear at other times the concept he presents still applies.

    Nice article overall even if I don't agree 100%

    I know the game and I too do not agree 100% with the entire article as well. It is hard to find one in fact that I can say I do agree 100%.

    But it was interesting to read, gives a different perspective on some things in regards to PvP.

    Although much of PWI is not PvP based, there is always that "group" that plays the game just for the pk'ing. This is evident here on these forums b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • RezzErection - Harshlands
    RezzErection - Harshlands Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    wait! i thought we werent allowed to post things that had to do with other games.

    btw nice article but it ended up being too kliche...
  • eatwithspoons
    eatwithspoons Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    The game is dead so let me worry about the rules b:victory That would be like yelling at someone for mentioning Tabula Rasa, even though the game no longer exists b:chuckle
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    The game is dead so let me worry about the rules b:victory That would be like yelling at someone for mentioning Tabula Rasa, even though the game no longer exists b:chuckle

    talk about wasted potential..... that game that is.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • eatwithspoons
    eatwithspoons Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Yeah it sounded good in theory, especially coming from Gariott.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Yeah it sounded good in theory, especially coming from Gariott.

    It is always in theory b:surrender

    Some just cannot make the cut.....
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Brab - Lost City
    Brab - Lost City Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Ah, poor Lord British. I played the game after it went free (and I nabbed the collector's edition disc from a Wal-Mart dumpster) and it was indeed a good game, just unknown and not particularly spectacular.
    b:sad A tear shed for servers lost
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    wait! i thought we werent allowed to post things that had to do with other games.

    btw nice article but it ended up being too kliche...

    I do not know if I would call it "kliche" in the normal sense of the word.

    Only because people tend to have different views on the idea(s) regarding exactly what constitutes a "carebear." And people still use the word regularly enough, to the point where it has not lost its "definition."

    It can be said to have multiple definitions and can be applied as such:

    "Back in the day, Carebear referred to a person or a game mechanic which eliminated or reduced all risk and challenge and realism from the game.

    These days people throw the term carebear around to mean ANYTHING derotagory. Want to craft? You're a carebear! Don't want to play an mmorpg like a first person shooter? You're a carebear! Don't like to play the game like I play the game? You're a carebear! "


    "1. A player who detests Player versus Player (PvP) gaming and whines about how it ruins their gaming enjoyment.

    2. A player who is killed or has a loss through theft and then complains about player harassment.

    3. A player who focuses their gameplay strictly on crafting or other non-competitve activity.

    4. A player who is afraid of getting ganked by other gaming players.

    5. Players more concerned with "coloring" their houses, clothing, names, etc... than with playing against other people in a competitve gaming environment.

    6. A player who ruined the PvP MMORPG industry by complaining so much that PvP MMORPG development is rare.
    "I think everyone can agree that nerfing does no one any good, Except for the carebear that was bitching about getting killed by that class while fighting a mob."

    "Call me a carebear, I don't care cos I'll just kill you..."


    "This game will pwn and I can't wait to be the quasi carebear! I'm a sucker for crafting!"
    "

    From Here (you can find other definitions as well)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • darksnipersalt
    darksnipersalt Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Only here carebears aren't a minority. And rather than get "loot" from killing someone, we get either a chance to lose items, or spend money on dolls, or go full bound which means our equipment can not be resold (Also now, bound gear can still shatter)
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Only here carebears aren't a minority. And rather than get "loot" from killing someone, we get either a chance to lose items, or spend money on dolls, or go full bound which means our equipment can not be resold (Also now, bound gear can still shatter)

    I agree in you saying that carebears are not the minority. In fact, even in LC they are greatly MUCH of the server.

    But we have seen this slowly starting to happen with the increase in prices and how different larger guilds are run.

    And in all honesty, the "hazards" are really not as harsh here as compared to other "entertainment" in which you can lose experience and all your items (brief examples). All one needs to do is have a doll and even then the safety lock feature is available.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • darksnipersalt
    darksnipersalt Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    We can't all afford dolls, you know I'm more broke than a lvl 5 running around trying to save up for that epic 2* lvl 8 sword.
  • RedsRose - Lost City
    RedsRose - Lost City Posts: 12,354 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    We can't all afford dolls, you know I'm more broke than a lvl 5 running around.

    That is because you do nothing b:avoid

    Unless you have started to gv again....but even then, there is the Safety Lock function. b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!

    "Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
    Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous
  • Brab - Lost City
    Brab - Lost City Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    He tries to GV but there are no good WBs left.

    Should've been not lolterrible when he had the chance!
  • darksnipersalt
    darksnipersalt Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    That is because you do nothing b:avoid

    Unless you have started to gv again....but even then, there is the Safety Lock function. b:surrender
    I'm trying to start Gv again but the people I used to do it with are all above level 85 now so I have to find new people to do it with.

    And the safety lock is a pain to use. I have to say, Ok in three days I'm going to pk. So then I set it and in three days I can PK, too bad I can't do anything else. And then when I'm done I have to wait three days for it to set back to 1 minute.
  • Brab - Lost City
    Brab - Lost City Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Sorry, I was just sick of GV b:bye and yeah, safety lock is often more trouble than it's worth, especially on days when I'm disconnecting a lot.
  • darksnipersalt
    darksnipersalt Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    And now im forced to go through everyone who wants to do RB on the server, theres like, 4 people left who know what to do, and their never on. Last time I did RB I had to teach 4 people what to do. (Still made it to double, guess I'm a pro teacher)
  • Amour - Lost City
    Amour - Lost City Posts: 1,825 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    I'm a carebear now. It's kind of fun, as long as you're doing it with the right people <3
    "Amour is better suited to rainbow text, because he is a classy lady." - Nakhimov
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]