Magic Attack; does it really play such a huge role in how much we hit for?

Amour - Lost City

I've been finding myself wondering lately that maybe pure int isn't really all what it's cracked up to be. Maybe the extra 2-3-4k matk doesn't do ALL THAT MUCH for us. But I'm not sure.

I went from 1-90 in LA. I restatted to pure a few times, but I could NOT handle the dramatic drop in survivability for... a little PvE damage. I was a strong advocate for LA because at those levels your weapon shouldn't be refined enough for you to really make use of the int, since damage is calculated and multiplied through weapon damage and int multipliers.

Now I'm 100, pure int, with a +8 99 sword. I have 8-10k matk, 13% crit, 5160 hp, and 5k pdef self buffed. Pretty decent, I like my crit. my HP and pdef are pretty sufficient, still working on those, and my matk is nice to look at. But what if I went heavy?

Heavy is no doubt the best armor type in the game. It offers the best balance of mdef and pdef, along with crazy +hp with refines. But the question is, would it be worth the loss in magic attack? That's all I would lose, that and some magic defense. I'd gain another 2% crit, and I'd probably more than triple my pdef and boost up my HP.

So really, how much does magic attack do for us? Alright. So say I lost 2.5-3k matk in restatting my int out. That's 3k PvE damage, no big deal, lolPvE. PvP damage is about 750 damage 'raw'. 750 is quite a bit, but when you factor in resistance, say the average is 55% reduction, then that gets further reduced into ~315 damage. I must admit, for pyro/gush spamming, this seems like quite a lot. Especially when you crit, it definitely adds up over time. But what about skills like;

●Black Ice Dragon Strike
Range 30.0meters
Mana 655
Channel 4.0 seconds
Cast 1.6 seconds
Cooldown 30.0 seconds
Weapon Unarmed, Magic Instruments

Requisite Cultivation Master of Harmony
Focus one's energy to summon a water dragon that soars up to the sky and smashes onto the target
and
all surrounding enemies. Target and enemies in a 12.0 meter radius around target
suffer
water damage equal to base magic damage plus 500% of weapon damage plus 13955.0.

Has a 95% chance to slow enemies by 60% for 8.0 seconds and has a chance to increase magical critical hit rate.

Requires two Sparks

Because lets face it, when you think of mages you think of ultis. They go hand in hand, I know this is my most used skill, so why not play with it. Now lets take a look at the damage modifiers.

water damage equal to base magic damage

Alright, so your BASE magic damage, aka the Magic Attack you see in your character screen. With a raw difference of 750, and a PvP difference of ~315 damage, okay. Pure int has that. But it just pales in comparison of

plus 500% of weapon damage

Wow, 500%. Not even dependant on int, just purely the + of your weapon. So your average 99 mage has a +7-8 crit sword, so lets say thats roughly ~1200 damage, ... but we have to times that by 5. So an astounding 6k raw. PvP Raw = 1500, PvP % resist = 675. And then last but not least

plus 13955.0.

That's 14 THOUSAND of raw damage. Divided by 4 = ~3500*.55 = 1575 damage.

So in comparison, pure int has about 320 more PvP damage on a heavy/LA equivalent (roughly), but as you can see most of the wizards damage come from the skills themselves.

Understand debuffs such as undine and removing cleric buffs to further reduce your targets magic defense would only scale the difference between pure int and heavy or light armor even more, leaning towards favouring the pure. But maybe a little bit of damage isn't worth losing the survivability? Or Maybe it's just a little bit of my pre-90 mentality kicking in.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts. This is all based from what I've seen when I've tried out some crazy LA or HA builds on PW calc, and all char stat numbers are estimated. I'll go plug some things in and post a few builds later. Also, late at night, my maths are probably wrong. Don't hate me for it.

Miss_Tika - Lost City

lvl 100 Heavy MG with +9 99weap and 2 CV rings = 5955-7253
lvl 100 Pure Int MG with +9 99weap and 2 CV rings = 8678-10480

+12 heavy = 7742-9040
+12 pure int = 11158-12960

You sure that's only a few 100 points in pvp? o.o

Go experiment.... Use someone's hh90+6 (err +4 maybe) and compare damage with your hh99+8

Urahara - Harshlands

Did you just say that Heavy Armor is the best armor? Um, you wear heavy, then archers, wizards, clerics, and venos will kill you. That's 4/6. <_<

Adroit - Lost City

seems like an interesting build :O

I think the problem I'd have with a build like that is the magic resists. Unlike a BM or Barb, wizards really can't afford to put points in vit or whatnot, you're gonna need to put a bunch into maq for your weapon (obviously) so you're not gonna have almost any survivability against any magic class. I'd guess this build would help you tank archers/BM's/barbs... and you'd probably still have enough damage to take them down But other wizards would eat u alive (obviously) and same with clerics and prolly veno's too.

I dunno, I'm just speculating... but I think it'd be fun anyway. Right after u changed, going into a TW and having all the BM's/archers and whatnot target the "squishy" and you being able to **** them, and being that ults would still have amazing damage... you could still be amazing in TW. Though it wouldn't be long till whoever ur fighting figured it out and you end up getting one shot by stuff that used to tickle. On top of all that, your e-peen would shrink when other n00b wizards are now able to kill you b:shocked

Amour - Lost City

Urahara - Harshlands wrote: »

Did you just say that Heavy Armor is the best armor? Um, you wear heavy, then archers, wizards, clerics, and venos will kill you. That's 4/6. <_<

You wear heavy, mdef adorns (Oh look you can chain two 99 golds for -channeling bonus and +matk) and you refine your rings. Mdef would probably be around 5-6k buffed with decent refines. I don't know why you're telling me 4/6 can kill as heavy because 4/6 can kill wizards with relative ease as robe too. Talking 99+ here btw, 90+ any class can kill a pure int mage because they have such little hp.

Urahara - Harshlands

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

You wear heavy, mdef adorns (Oh look you can chain two 99 golds for -channeling bonus and +matk) and you refine your rings. Mdef would probably be around 5-6k buffed with decent refines. I don't know why you're telling me 4/6 can kill as heavy because 4/6 can kill wizards with relative ease as robe too. Talking 99+ here btw, 90+ any class can kill a pure int mage because they have such little hp.

Hmmm, well..... I suppose you're right, but if 4/6 classes can kill you as arcane, and 4/6 classes can kill you as heavy, then why not just go arcane for the damage? You'll die eveny anywayb:cute

P.S Heavy does have nice refines though

Mosabi - Heavens Tear

one word...

Field Expermentation please.b:bye

Damaged - Lost City

And what heavy set would you be wearing? Since hh90 heavy with hh99 wep is impossible i'm assuming

Uncanny - Lost City

Too bad when you wear hh90 heavy gear at 90 you only have enough int to wear a 70 wep

Damaged - Lost City

Fully buffed mattack with 99 wep in hh70 armor is 7504-9123
Fully buffed mattack with 99 wep as pure mag 9808-11924

Based on

Pure Mag

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=70113d60054e943c

If you wanted to wear the 99 weapon you would only be able to wear hh70 armor (with stat boosts):

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ae2a535862ab281d


Or you could wear hh90 with the 80 gold weapon
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ba218bae2c05ec1c


So basically you gain 4k pdef ,2% crit and 600 hp as heavy (assuming you wanted to use the 99 gold wep), lose 2300 ish mage attack, and lose 4k mdef

If you went the path with hh90 armor and hh80 weapon you lose almost half the magic attack, cba working out rest

trinadangg

Damaged - Lost City wrote: »

Fully buffed mattack with 99 wep in hh70 armor is 7504-9123
Fully buffed mattack with 99 wep as pure mag 9808-11924

Based on

Pure Mag

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=70113d60054e943c

If you wanted to wear the 99 weapon you would only be able to wear hh70 armor (with stat boosts):

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ae2a535862ab281d


Or you could wear hh90 with the 80 gold weapon
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=ba218bae2c05ec1c

venos wear hh90 with 99 wep all the time... just takes some plannin out with +stat gear.

Damaged - Lost City

trinadangg wrote: »

venos wear hh90 with 99 wep all the time... just takes some plannin out with +stat gear.

My bad, with the hh90 gold sword it would work out easily
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=98b6e338999cbccc

Dunno about getting the stat boosts for the 99 one though, cba

Kristoph - Lost City

As far as I'm concerned it's not worth it at all. Magic, lategame, hits much too hard. Barbs have a pdef debuff and zerk axes, vit BMs will be incredibly hard to kill, Veno's have a pdef debuff and magic attacks, archers have magic attacks... and so on. And at the same time you're weaker vs Clerics and Wizards. At 99, there's enough arcane gear with great stats, meaning there's no advantage you had at 8x; the cheap LA molds etc. It will probably be more expensive to equip a heavy armor wizard properly, anyway.



And hh90 armor with hh99 weap is easily doable.

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8c51f40353f7840a

Stopped there because it sucked too much imo. But yeah it's missing shards and stats on 2nd ring. At lower levels the difference in power wasn't that big, but there's no point in not dying if you can't kill things effectively. Because even with dragon... things aren't going to die if you don't crit or time it well.

MD - Harshlands

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

You wear heavy, mdef adorns (Oh look you can chain two 99 golds for -channeling bonus and +matk) and you refine your rings. Mdef would probably be around 5-6k buffed with decent refines. I don't know why you're telling me 4/6 can kill as heavy because 4/6 can kill wizards with relative ease as robe too. Talking 99+ here btw, 90+ any class can kill a pure int mage because they have such little hp.

Not my fault poor ppl try to play full int mage with only +5 on their armor

Kristoph - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

Not my fault poor ppl try to play full int mage with only +5 on their armor

I use +5 armor and do rather well, so you either fail at playing or have no idea what you're on about.

MD - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

I use +5 armor and do rather well, so you either fail at playing or have no idea what you're on about.

wtf are u talking about? lol...

im talking to Amour if he qq about such a little hp with pure int....dumb fk

10k defense self buff/10-12k magic atk no buff/5.2k hp no buff(need to change shard)<

---

too fking OP as a lvl96 MUHAHAH

yet i only have +5/6 armor only as well so stfu

Trawne - Lost City

It could work. for ultis you may not see a difference but ~300 damage a spell could be the difference in killing a player without that ulti by overcoming his HP and charm. you could get 3-5 spells off in the 10 seconds it takes for that charm to refresh. thats ~900-1500 extra damage

Gaining -Channeling mdef accessories would be nice, but you'll lose -Channeling sleeves (robe too if you have the rank for it which no one does).

I think this would come down to: "Do i want an easier time surviving barbs/bm's or wizards/clerics?

Kristoph - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

wtf are u talking about? lol...

im talking to Amour if he qq about such a little hp with pure int....dumb fk

10k defense self buff/10-12k magic atk no buff/5.2k hp no buff(need to change shard)<

---

too fking OP as a lvl96 MUHAHAH

yet i only have +5/6 armor only as well so stfu

You're kind of messing up your credibility. How do you have a 10-12k attackrange with a wand? lol.

MD - Harshlands

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

You're kind of messing up your credibility. How do you have a 10-12k attackrange with a wand? lol.

+10 HH90 glaive...hmm go calculate yourself, cuz thats my stat atm w/o buff....now you get it why am i OP in HL? fking dumb azz.....

once I get my CV wand+9 its same dmg as +10 HH90 glaive....then i will +10 probably, but i need to farm more HH QQ><

and I am not pro like Llama yet, he has 17% cri or 16%...=p

but hmm with wand I have 13%, with tome later I have 16%, with 3 more dex pt I will have 17% there, and genie skill I will have 19% cri rate under 1min. Now stop qqing maybe?

PS. i saw a lot of LA mage lvl9x in LC...what the fk is that!!!

Nakhimov - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

+10 HH90 glaive...hmm go calculate yourself, cuz thats my stat atm w/o buff....now you get it why am i OP in HL? fking dumb azz.....

once I get my CV wand+9 its same dmg as +10 HH90 glaive....then i will +10 probably, but i need to farm more HH QQ><

and i aint Llama who has 17% cri or 16%...=p

but hmm 11% atm, with wand 13%, with tome later 16%, with 3 more dex pt, 17% there, genie skill 19% cri rate under 1min. Now stop qqing maybe?

Hurr durr my e-peen is large and I have a poor grasp of the English language

Elrond - Heavens Tear

Compair these 2 builds:

HA: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=5c00f0626ac18ed4
vit: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=8e67cff28ff5b92e
the use the formula: effective HP=Total HP*(100/(100-%reduction)) This formula standardizes HP so you can compare the defensive aspects of these builds.

Comes out as... no sage/demon buffs btw
HA gives ~47k hp vs magic, and 70k HP vs physical
Vit gives ~54k hp vs magic, and 65k hp vs physical

or you can dump thoes magic points from vit, into magic and get..
pure gives ~46k hp vs magic, and 50k HP vs physical

Pure gets about 3700 more damage then vit/HA...
Also HA/robes gives more hp and defense then LA

My personal thoughts are to go robes, because if i want to deal heave damage then I can go pure and if I want to be defense then I can go vit.

also BDIS deals about 90% in HA/Vit/LA then it does as pure.
and pyro gush does about 82%

Edit: this build has CV wand (lvl 95), and HA lvl 90

MD - Harshlands

Nakhimov - Lost City wrote: »

Hurr durr my e-peen is large and I have a poor grasp of the English language

oh the lvl86 fail mage has spoken on the forum again~

MUHAHHA

when you gonna hit 90 please?....and dont go sage like a dumb azz. LC TW is dead...you dont need BISDb:chuckle

Amour - Lost City

Don't give MD the time of day, he's just looking for some attention.
And yeah, 90 heavy with 99 weapon is fairly easy, I know many venos who have it.

And LLama is like pure defense build btw, he has 13% crit and his pdef is insanely high. NT though harshlands mage. BTW, I kill things cause I'm 100, no ****. Mages kill things with spells, their spells get stronger at 99, I'm sorry you're too dumb to realize that.

edit; If you guys are going to post PWIcalc builds please make them reasonable. +10 armor is NOT reasonable, even the most savvy of cash shoppers do not have +10 armor. Also, 4 socket on everything is also quite unreasonable for the above average player.

Miss_Tika - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

oh the lvl86 fail mage has spoken on the forum again~

MUHAHHA

when you gonna hit 90 please?....and dont go sage like a dumb azz. LC TW is dead...you dont need BISDb:chuckle

.............

What are you, 13? Probably abusing your mother's credit card and living in her basement. No one gives a **** about your e-peen, go shove it up your own ****.

LC TW is not dead. CQ has a triple attack almost every single weekend. Not to mention the non factor wars going on very week. Try harder.

---

Anyway amour did you do some damage tests lol. HA survivability is amazing but the damage is sooo significantly low, and lower crit than LA...

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

On top of all that, your e-peen would shrink when other n00b wizards are now able to kill you b:shocked

yay me will be that noob hamster wizard, (>.<)

Mosabi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

one word...

Field Expermentation please.b:bye

o.O' I see more then one word.
DX is that right?

also yar you would have one heck of a surprise advantage. For a few TW's
until they realize they only need 1 wizard/cleric/veno to take you down.
DX
lol now if there was only a way to swap between robes and heavy armor quickly. without having to restat. X_x'
xD

MD - Harshlands

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

Don't give MD the time of day, he's just looking for some attention.
And yeah, 90 heavy with 99 weapon is fairly easy, I know many venos who have it.

And LLama is like pure defense build btw, he has 13% crit and his pdef is insanely high. NT though harshlands mage. BTW, I kill things cause I'm 100, no ****. Mages kill things with spells, their spells get stronger at 99, I'm sorry you're too dumb to realize that.

edit; If you guys are going to post PWIcalc builds please make them reasonable. +10 armor is NOT reasonable, even the most savvy of cash shoppers do not have +10 armor. Also, 4 socket on everything is also quite unreasonable for the above average player.

woops then obvious Llama was lying and how do I suppose to know? when they are all CS mage MUHHAHA, hmm lolumad? cuz you are fail lvl100 mage and act big big big b:chuckle pdef is "insanely high" like how high? lol....

I believe my pdef is higher than his, yet his belt and armor are like +6/7/8?

PS. wtf is pure defense build ROFL...u mean pure +8 set armor build?...

MD - Harshlands

Miss_Tika - Lost City wrote: »

.............

What are you, 13? Probably abusing your mother's credit card and living in her basement. No one gives a **** about your e-peen, go shove it up your own ****.

LC TW is not dead. CQ has a triple attack almost every single weekend. Not to mention the non factor wars going on very week. Try harder.

---

Anyway amour did you do some damage tests lol. HA survivability is amazing but the damage is sooo significantly low, and lower crit than LA...

HA mage's survivability lol!!!! like what? 5k more defense and 3-4k more hp? ROFL....HA mage is 1shot MUAHAHHAHA or you gonna tell me you will +12 your rings/belt/neck and shard all magic resis on the armor?

hmm nah im not 13, i wont lie about my age like others, im 17~ and I have jobs^^ now you happy?

PS. LC TW not dead yet? then prove it...lol....cuz i heard a lot of CQ went to "4 letter game", yet they still gonna own the entire map after 3 more weeks

Miss_Tika - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

woops then obvious Llama was lying and how do I suppose to know? when they are all CS mage MUHHAHA, hmm lolumad? cuz you are fail lvl100 mage and act big big big b:chuckle pdef is "insanely high" like how high? lol....

I believe my pdef is higher than his, yet his belt and armor are like +6/7/8?

PS. wtf is pure defense build ROFL...u mean pure +8 set armor build?...

lol

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

HA mage's survivability lol!!!! like what? 5k more defense and 3-4k more hp? ROFL....HA mage is 1shot MUAHAHHAHA or you gonna tell me you will +12 your rings/belt/neck and shard all magic resis on the armor?

hmm nah im not 13, i wont lie about my age like others, im 17~ and I have jobs^^ now you happy?

PS. LC TW not dead yet? then prove it...lol....cuz i heard a lot of CQ went to "4 letter game", yet they still gonna own the entire map after 3 more weeks

HA has twice as much Phydef, similar magic defense and alot more HP. Or are you that ignorant? That's called "survivability" you ****ing dumbass.

I'm glad you admitted you're a cash shop ****

I'm sure hearsay about LC = 100% truth. Don't pretend you know everything about LC lololol

Adroit - Lost City

MD - Harshlands wrote: »

HA mage's survivability lol!!!! like what? 5k more defense and 3-4k more hp? ROFL....HA mage is 1shot MUAHAHHAHA or you gonna tell me you will +12 your rings/belt/neck and shard all magic resis on the armor?

hmm nah im not 13, i wont lie about my age like others, im 17~ and I have jobs^^ now you happy?

PS. LC TW not dead yet? then prove it...lol....cuz i heard a lot of CQ went to "4 letter game", yet they still gonna own the entire map after 3 more weeks

god this guy is annoying... is their a blacklist feature for the forums?

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

god this guy is annoying... is their a blacklist feature for the forums?

you can um...ignore. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist
o.o'

Adroit - Lost City

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

you can um...ignore.
o.o'

not helping b:surrender
I wants a feature!