Gm Make New Plan to Lower Gold Prices please.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

calavera wrote: »

Whatever you do irl shouldn't have a bearing in what you do INGAME. Should people who "work hard" get an advantage over others in chess? Yes, i'm cool with people charging zen having a chance to catch up with those who can afford to play 24/7 but this is about proportion.

I think its more about greed and the pedistal pple put themselves to the 'allow' others to do or not do things in a limited amount based on their personal preference of how a game should be. >.>

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You must be new...... Most high level players have hundreds of millions of coins.... do you really think they are too worried about paying 400k for gold when, worse case, they can break even, and best case get 45million+ out of it?

>.>...
...<.<
.......*looks at my less than 1.5M*....

b:sad

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

>.>...
...<.<
.......*looks at my less than 1.5M*....

b:sad

That is why I said "most" not all :P

calavera

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think its more about greed and the pedistal pple put themselves to the 'allow' others to do or not do things in a limited amount based on their personal preference of how a game should be. >.>

So you think it's because of greed that people care about acknowledgement of what they've acomplished? What's next? Oscars for Youtube posters? Those can't be far... Buying your way to the world cup finals? Phds for wikipedia pundits? How bout a pulitzer prize for trolls? We are gamers, the only trophy we get for that is the gear on our toons...

Quilue - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Assuming your referring to the reeaaaallllyyyy uber lucky players who got items in a few shots of opening packs? >.>

I bought some of them but im pretty darn sure i worked way more to get the money to spend on zhen than sitting on my butt clicking a mouse in my house. :0

it's not even about that. you can spend the money that you worked for on whatever. the problem is the fact that gear could be obtainable that way. regardless of how hard you work in RL, people's accomplishments in game shouldn't be taken away so arbitrarily. it's like saying i should be able to buy muscle bulk because i work hard at my job. with lots of money, you can buy good food that helps, but to be strong you still have to exercise, it's kind of like that i think.

and it's not just cash shoppers who won big over this event, if you had a little coin, and we're not talking hundreds of mils, you could do very decently over the course of this event by playing around with the market.

AinaMizuako - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

>.>...
...<.<
.......*looks at my less than 1.5M*....

b:sad

I have exactly 10707 coins.

*sold her soul for a Hellhound today* ;.;

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

rukhmath wrote: »

Excuse me.

Never once said freeguys are worse at life.

What i'm trying to say is, what u mentioned in your post...."great buisness for pwe"
Thats where it ends. The whole debate, The attempts to bring gold down, the gm bashin, it all ends and is answered by that one simple statement.
"It's great buisness for pwe".

Any online gaming company that has the good old" we have our gamer's interest at heart first and foremost"
Is just trying to be nice like the good old icecream man.
Believe me....... if the gms/managers/ could tell u to your face what they actually think......
It wouldn't pretty.

I don't mean CSers are better than us at life, I mean they're better than us at the game.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

>.>...
...<.<
.......*looks at my less than 1.5M*....

b:sad

*looks at my less than 400k*

Zoe - Heavens Tear

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't mean CSers are better than us at life, I mean they're better than us at the game.

Actually...no.

Person A has cash shop stuff, never goes without a charm, has highly refined gear.

Person B does not have any cash shop stuff. No refines, no charm.

They both fight the same boss and win. Person A does it easy with his cash shop stuff. Person B, since they do not have cash shop stuff, has to learn how to survive without it using various tricks/skills/items to win.

Who is the better player after this?

Cbastor - Lost City

aryannamage wrote: »

The GM's don't make the prices. It is the players themselfs.

i have a great idea to lower gold prices.The game should just put a cap on how much one gold can cost like 100-150k.if players dont wanna sell thier gold then they dont have to but this would be better for the servers over all imo

chesticles

Its all about the Free Market.

If the GMs/Devs got involved, then they would constantly be asked to change it if things got too high/low.

Its the players that made it where it is now, change is in your hands.

If even 1/2 of the cs buyers that buy through gold trade didnt buy until prices dropped, then the sellers would be forced to drop the prices.

Of course, this will never happen so lol.

calavera

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually...no.

Person A has cash shop stuff, never goes without a charm, has highly refined gear.

Person B does not have any cash shop stuff. No refines, no charm.

They both fight the same boss and win. Person A does it easy with his cash shop stuff. Person B, since they do not have cash shop stuff, has to learn how to survive without it using various tricks/skills/items to win.

Who is the better player after this?

Who's the better player? Who cares? So Zoe, you feel no empathy for people who got their mounts doing DQ? For those who wasted months doing frost? The ones that went for high level tomes to better their builds? Inventory extensions and wind widgets are completely useless items to you? People who earned pure black outfits for themselves are what, saps? I know true PvP is offensive to you but don't you find it in the least bit sad it now takes 3 times as long to get a nix?

Why is it that some people feel the urge to brag about how awesome players they are whenever the comunity is trying to sort out it's issues? Really, "be more like me" is no solution at all. That some people play in "spartan" austere mode, and others get good at the "jr wall street investor" game has nothing to do with the fact updates have done nothing but alienate a large part of the player base. Yeah and all those people who manage to get 400k an hour farming/grinding mind sharing your spots with the rest of us? Gold prices don't affect you? Haven't you missed at least a single one of the players who decided to quit over this? If really what happens to the rest of us doesn't affect you, then why you even bother being in an mmo?

calavera

chesticles wrote: »

Its all about the Free Market.

If the GMs/Devs got involved, then they would constantly be asked to change it if things got too high/low.

Its the players that made it where it is now, change is in your hands.

If even 1/2 of the cs buyers that buy through gold trade didnt buy until prices dropped, then the sellers would be forced to drop the prices.

Of course, this will never happen so lol.

And why don't you take every single dollar you own or can get through credit and spend it tonight, it would really help the world economy... People may have been holding off on buying gold for months now, should they wait until just before they quit? You can't change market conditions as an individual, all you can do is try and cope as best you can. The factors that have led to high gold prices are not under player control or do you think people selling gold are greedy just cuz they're after the best deal they can get? Good luck applying that irl.

Edit; i know, double post, sry

Brael - Dreamweaver

They're under player control, what they're not under is individual player control. The collective playerbase is what determines prices.

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually...no.

Person A has cash shop stuff, never goes without a charm, has highly refined gear.

Person B does not have any cash shop stuff. No refines, no charm.

They both fight the same boss and win. Person A does it easy with his cash shop stuff. Person B, since they do not have cash shop stuff, has to learn how to survive without it using various tricks/skills/items to win.

Who is the better player after this?

Generally (though not always), person B is the more skilled player. HOWEVER, what if person A has just as much experience fighting as person B, and has +12 kickass-socketed stuff (exaggeration, but you get the idea) that makes up for the reduced skill. Person B gets steamrolled.

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They're under player control, what they're not under is individual player control. The collective playerbase is what determines prices.

This.

EDIT:

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary wrote: »

I vote Obama as GM, He will fix it! ]

This too!

preposterous

If prices are under player control, how would they go about lowering them?

I'm pretty sure the collective playerbase doesn't spontaneously decide that the price of gold should jump twice as much as before because it suddenly realized that there is an increasing amount of coins in the market.

Nor does the collective playerbase suddenly decide the price of gold should be lowered.

I do agree that the demand for gold is high enough to allow for 400K gold prices. What does not make sense is how some of you are arguing that PWE is not controlling the market. Yes, PWE doesn't control the market directly, but it is controlling the market in a way.

Players don't randomly decide the demand for gold... they generate it because of events such as this anniversary event, as some of you have mentioned. These events that cause players to generate demand for gold are controlled by PWE, so PWE does have a factor in the rising gold prices.

There does seem to be some sort of troubling trend in the PWI economy. Whenever gold prices rise, they do not decrease to their original levels, possibly because of the endless barrage of sales that PWE puts forth every week. In this sense, PWE also has some involvement in the PWI economy.

The tendency for gold prices to not decrease may also have something to do with the amount of coins in the market, and it would be considered quite stupid to have players voluntarily drain the coins out of distribution. Instead, PWE is the only group that can help decrease gold prices in this way as well.

Those of you that believe in a "free market" seem to oppose the thought of decreasing gold prices with the intervention of PWE, while PWE itself has indirectly caused the gold prices. I do not blame any players for posting gold for as high as 400K, because due to anniversary boxes, any lower gold price would mean a loss when posting gold in gold trading.

However, I believe PWE should do something about the events that have caused the rising gold prices. More specifically, the anniversary event has violated the idea of a "free market" system by indirectly causing the price of gold to increase.

Many of the anniversary box rewards are worth a lot more (in time, effort, and coins) than what is spent to obtain them. Compared to the chances of winning a lottery, the chance of obtaining the anniversary box rewards is quite high. News of players luckily obtaining rare items from anniversary boxes greatly makes a blow to those who have spent so much time and effort on trying to obtain them.

My point about how PWE is violating the idea of a free market is not how lucky cash-shoppers so easily obtain rare items from the anniversary boxes. It is how PWE has essentially and blindly declared the value of certain game items through the anniversary boxes and/or the PW Boutique Agent. Gold prices increase to reflect the discrepancy of value between the original price and anniversary prices. What kind of free market system is this?

Saveless - Sanctuary

preposterous wrote: »

If prices are under player control, how would they go about lowering them?

I'm pretty sure the collective playerbase doesn't spontaneously decide that the price of gold should jump twice as much as before because it suddenly realized that there is an increasing amount of coins in the market.

Nor does the collective playerbase suddenly decide the price of gold should be lowered.

Called greed. Some do attempt to lower, but it just never happens. Non-CSers are just so desperate for let's say charms, XP scrolls, dolls etc...that basically they're forced to buy it. Seeing as they're addicted to the game, they can't quit and are probably too lazy to re-roll another class out of boredom, hence why they buy at whatever it's at. Goodluck with lowering them.

Fabric - Lost City

IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That is why I said "most" not all :P

Lol I'm sure "most" players aren't that rich anyway. Although there may be many players that are that rich, proportionally, most players are poor.

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually...no.

Person A has cash shop stuff, never goes without a charm, has highly refined gear.

Person B does not have any cash shop stuff. No refines, no charm.

They both fight the same boss and win. Person A does it easy with his cash shop stuff. Person B, since they do not have cash shop stuff, has to learn how to survive without it using various tricks/skills/items to win.

Who is the better player after this?

Person A doesn't need to fight the boss. That's a waste of time and effort. Person A should just spend some of his cash shop money to achieve his goal. That is unless Person A needs the boss for a quest/rebirth/culti/other.

preposterous

Saveless - Sanctuary wrote: »

Called greed. Some do attempt to lower, but it just never happens. Non-CSers are just so desperate for let's say charms, XP scrolls, dolls etc...that basically they're forced to buy it. Seeing as they're addicted to the game, they can't quit and are probably too lazy to re-roll another class out of boredom, hence why they buy at whatever it's at. Goodluck with lowering them.

I agree that greed is an inhibiting factor in the lowering of the price of gold. However, if the demand for gold is lowered enough, over time (without any more intervention from events), people would decide to lower the price of gold. But then again people will care less about gold because the demand for gold is lowered.

calavera

Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They're under player control, what they're not under is individual player control. The collective playerbase is what determines prices.

This conception is IMO based on two wrong asumptions. The first one is that the playerbase is capable of concerted action in regards to the economy; Aside from the fact that we don't (to the best of my knowledge) share a hive mind, one should consider that every independent actor will make decisions based on a perception of what their best interest is. Market trends are influenced by factors independent of player's choices however, so even if on agregate it is player's decisions that determine gold prices, said choices are dependent on the regulator's (PW) actions.

The second is that the behaviour of cash flows (as coins in posession of the general public) resembles that of rl economies, it does not. Players esentially produce money through their ingame activities and do not buy it from a central bank, this eventually leads to inflation (aside from the gold system) which is the reason coin "sinks" are a necesity of game economies. Said sinks work ineficiently in PW's model and do not remove a suficient amount of coin from the game, this is a factor beyond player's control. Others that can be mentioned include:

Perfect hammers; as many have pointed out an excess in the supply of gold boxes esentially pegs gold prices to a minimum at around 200k minus AH fees and the average cost of boxes in the open market divided by five.

Sales/events; as demand soars for gold, prices tend to go up. The paradox is that while more players may be buying gold, the increased demand overides any effect increased supply may have on market prices. Some of you refer to this as "greed" and you would be right if sales were limited to only luxury items such as fashion/mounts (usually sales of these only spike prices for a few days) however, items which are either commodities (consumables such as charms, teles, etc.) are seen as exceptional oportunities (anni packs) or become a new tier of stapples (high grade gems) introduce long term distortions, both foreseable and outside player's control.

Speculators; Market dynamics by themselves influence a small number of players to try and benefit from price fluctuations. This in itself introduces a second layer of complexity as variations in the behaviour of these players may wildly affect short term prices. Remember economic bubbles? The regulator can negate most of the negative effects of these by providing certainty and predictability on it's supply side, the playerbase as a whole cannot.

Market confidence; The very real possibility of high end or valuable items obtained ingame being subject to sudden depreciation by itself pushes big spenders towards CS items which are more likely to retain their value. This raises gold prices and encourages hoarding which itself punctuates and amplifies economic stresses, as millions of coins are poured into the market everytime demand for gold rises.

I could go on but this already may be the largest wall of text i've ever produced in a forum.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

calavera wrote: »

That some people play in "spartan" austere mode, and others get good at the "jr wall street investor" game has nothing to do with the fact updates have done nothing but alienate a large part of the player base. Yeah and all those people who manage to get 400k an hour farming/grinding mind sharing your spots with the rest of us? Gold prices don't affect you? Haven't you missed at least a single one of the players who decided to quit over this? If really what happens to the rest of us doesn't affect you, then why you even bother being in an mmo?

If you would have been reading my posts since I started playing this game, I have been telling players to remove the greed/resellers. It only drives prices up, they never go down, players leave, the game dies. I have repeatedly said I'm in it for all the players, not my own wallet. I want EVERYONE to be able to afford gold, even the level 20s.

What I am saying here is that, because not many can afford it, learn to play without it because odds are, you won't have it anyway.

I warned everyone, over and over, no one wanted to listen. Look what happened. I was exactly right. How did I know? I saw this exact thing in every other mmo I have ever played.

I got pretty much everything I needed with gold already because I knew this would happen eventually, players are far too greedy to not let it happen.

For you people who say high gold prices are good for PWE I present you this:

Players sell gold for 100k each. Non paying players buy it up fast, everyone can afford things. The sellers get fast money and can buy whatever they want with the coins. Players buy more gold with real money, giving PWE a ton of cash.

Players sell gold for 400k+. Most of the non paying players cannot afford it. The sellers get a ton per gold yes but there are many less players actually buying it. The players that cannot afford it may leave the game. Less possible cash shop users, less players to buy the gold from the sellers. Eventually leading to the sellers having no one to actually sell the gold to. Sellers don't buy much gold anymore, PWE loses tons of cash. Also, sellers need to sell much less gold for higher money, meaning they don't need to sell as much of it to get what they want. They buy much less, PWE gets much less cash.

Problem is here:

The buyers, for wanting everything NOW the moment it comes out, just to try to sell it for higher later. (the reselling that only drives up prices)

The sellers, for caring more about their wallets than the good of the server and entire game.

Both are pure greed.

In conclusion, players should never be allowed to set prices for anything. This only drives games into ruin.

Fear my massive wall of text!

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

calavera wrote: »

This conception is IMO based on two wrong asumptions. The first one is that the playerbase is capable of concerted action in regards to the economy; Aside from the fact that we don't (to the best of my knowledge) share a hive mind, one should consider that every independent actor will make decisions based on a perception of what their best interest is. Market trends are influenced by factors independent of player's choices however, so even if on agregate it is player's decisions that determine gold prices, said choices are dependent on the regulator's (PW) actions.

The second is that the behaviour of cash flows (as coins in posession of the general public) resembles that of rl economies, it does not. Players esentially produce money through their ingame activities and do not buy it from a central bank, this eventually leads to inflation (aside from the gold system) which is the reason coin "sinks" are a necesity of game economies. Said sinks work ineficiently in PW's model and do not remove a suficient amount of coin from the game, this is a factor beyond player's control. Others that can be mentioned include:

Perfect hammers; as many have pointed out an excess in the supply of gold boxes esentially pegs gold prices to a minimum at around 200k minus AH fees and the average cost of boxes in the open market divided by five.

Sales/events; as demand soars for gold, prices tend to go up. The paradox is that while more players may be buying gold, the increased demand overides any effect increased supply may have on market prices. Some of you refer to this as "greed" and you would be right if sales were limited to only luxury items such as fashion/mounts (usually sales of these only spike prices for a few days) however, items which are either commodities (consumables such as charms, teles, etc.) are seen as exceptional oportunities (anni packs) or become a new tier of stapples (high grade gems) introduce long term distortions, both foreseable and outside player's control.

Speculators; Market dynamics by themselves influence a small number of players to try and benefit from price fluctuations. This in itself introduces a second layer of complexity as variations in the behaviour of these players may wildly affect short term prices. Remember economic bubbles? The regulator can negate most of the negative effects of these by providing certainty and predictability on it's supply side, the playerbase as a whole cannot.

Market confidence; The very real possibility of high end or valuable items obtained ingame being subject to sudden depreciation by itself pushes big spenders towards CS items which are more likely to retain their value. This raises gold prices and encourages hoarding which itself punctuates and amplifies economic stresses, as millions of coins are poured into the market everytime demand for gold rises.

I could go on but this already may be the largest wall of text i've ever produced in a forum.

FINALLY someone who gets it. +1.

Bigbux - Dreamweaver

just saying but... i think 400k is good as it is now. I'm new to Perfect World and I just started using money on this game right after the gold went from 250k-~400k. I'm gaining all that I wanted.
and 100k?? i mean cmon who benefits from that except from the people who don't spend money on the game. Sure gold is accessible to everyone, but when it's that low, i believe buying gold would be useless at that stage.

Go buy urself a prepaid card and don't worry about the high prices... you will actually benefit for the time being.
(i didn't read any of the above replies so this might be really random. lol)
no flame intended.

Im DEF going with 400k+...wouldnt mind 300...

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Bigbux - Dreamweaver wrote: »

just saying but... i think 400k is good as it is now. I'm new to Perfect World and I just started using money on this game right after the gold went from 250k-~400k. I'm gaining all that I wanted.
and 100k?? i mean cmon who benefits from that except from the people who don't spend money on the game. Sure gold is accessible to everyone, but when it's that low, i believe buying gold would be useless at that stage.

Go buy urself a prepaid card and don't worry about the high prices... you will actually benefit for the time being.
(i didn't read any of the above replies so this might be really random. lol)
no flame intended.

It seems alright at your level, until you start needing charms, refines, GAs, etc. Then it's hell.

Personally, I think 150-200k's about right.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Bigbux - Dreamweaver wrote: »

just saying but... i think 400k is good as it is now. I'm new to Perfect World and I just started using money on this game right after the gold went from 250k-~400k. I'm gaining all that I wanted.
and 100k?? i mean cmon who benefits from that except from the people who don't spend money on the game. Sure gold is accessible to everyone, but when it's that low, i believe buying gold would be useless at that stage.

Go buy urself a prepaid card and don't worry about the high prices... you will actually benefit for the time being.
(i didn't read any of the above replies so this might be really random. lol)
no flame intended.

Im DEF going with 400k+...wouldnt mind 300...

When the game started, gold was 100k each, and it sold well.

I just noticed I didn't say anything about the doing all the work to get the stuff then just having it sold in the cash shop. About that I just have one thing to say:

If you were not so greedy (wanting it NOW) or did not level so fast, you would not have that problem.

calavera

@preposterous, deathbanana i agree with much of what you guys have argued here.

@Zoe while i could hardly say we see eye to eye, i think we agree on the esentials of what high gold prices are doing to the player base, i apologize if i came across as harsh in my posts.

Bigbux - Dreamweaver

Good to know, but what's wrong with 400k anyways?
if people can't afford it, I'm sorry... blame it on the people who have money/enough in game coins to buy gold. They gain profit, they gain event items (which is for everyone but targeted for people with money[sells inside cash shop]), and most of all, they set the prices.
If you need the gold that bad, why spend your 400k then? buy it 0.o
(wasnt intended to you Zoe. just speaking in general)

::This is when the money starts rollin in for PW... smart arent they. =]

Zoe - Heavens Tear

calavera wrote: »

@preposterous, deathbanana i agree with much of what you guys have argued here.

@Zoe while i could hardly say we see eye to eye, i think we agree on the esentials of what high gold prices are doing to the player base, i apologize if i came across as harsh in my posts.

High gold prices = bad. I think a good deal of the players agree with that.b:laugh

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear

Bigbux - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Good to know, but what's wrong with 400k anyways?
if people can't afford it, I'm sorry... blame it on the people who have money/enough in game coins to buy gold. They gain profit, they gain event items (which is for everyone but targeted for people with money[sells inside cash shop]), and most of all, they set the prices.
If you need the gold that bad, why spend your 400k then? buy it 0.o
(wasnt intended to you Zoe. just speaking in general)

::This is when the money starts rollin in for PW... smart arent they. =]

Because the higher levels need gold ALOT. I mean, you practically need a charm for every TW weekend (idk exactly, as I don't TW)

calavera

DeathBanana - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Because the higher levels need gold ALOT. I mean, you practically need a charm for every TW weekend (idk exactly, as I don't TW)

It's been a while since i did, but you need both types and more than one usually.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

calavera wrote: »

It's been a while since i did, but you need both types and more than one usually.

The faction I'm in does TW weekly, however most of us cannot afford charms. I don't use them anyway so it does not effect me in that way but this just puts the gap between paying and non paying players way to huge. That kind of unbalance only hurts the game.

In my experience, when prices get high, players don't start spending real money, they just find other games to play.