Mage unfair treatment

Leprechaundh - Sanctuary

Lody - Sanctuary wrote: »

To tell you the truth,, The game system hates Mages..
The following is why:

1. Hit points suck,, We can take only a few hits an make it out alive..
2. Range of are spells suck( We have to be close to the monster to even hit it. Which puts us in the monster range.)
3. Then when you are fighting a monster it always happens to me that one or two just appears behind me and starts attacking.. Your died like always..
4. You don't get your push back spell until lvl 39 so your screwed on that at the lower lvls when you really need it..
5. Our spells take to long to fire off so we have to use are best spells at the begin of the battle only then use your gush and fire spell from that point on..

6. You can't fight alone unless you don't mind being dead 3 or 4 time in a 4 hrs playing time.. thats around 15% of the next lvl you lost to death...

1. Damage dealers cannot have high hp. they would be op beyond reckoning.
2. Range is actually very good. Most of our spells, at lvl 10, have almost 30 ft range.
3. that happens, suck it up.
4. I don't care.
5. Yet again, mages are DD. If we were able to crank out as many spells in half the time we would turn a pvp map into a giant crater (Although there is a wide variety of channeling reducing armor that can get you up to -25% chann, which I don't need to say rocks some srs ****, but will anyway).

The point of being a mage is to be smart with how you play. It is hard at the beginning, but that makes you all the more skillful when you lvl up. I haven't done much pvp recently, but I know that I can kill a normal monster my lvl in 1-4 hits (depending on spark, crit, ect.)

Yeah, I was pretty pissed about how wizards were set up when I first started, but now I completely agree with it. (But don't agree with how some other classes are set up, venos in particular.)

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

if your first char in this game is a wizz, wrong choice.

The way you play other classes are completely different. Playing another class will in no way prepare you for wizard. I am personally glad I didn't waste my time on any other class just to get the feel for the game.

I will, however, recommend trying out all classes to see which one is right for your playing style and how difficult you like a game to be (venos="easy toddler" difficuly, Wiz="omfg why?" difficulty).

Piliener - Lost City

it's a meter not foot range lol

AetherSan - Heavens Tear

This has probably been said already but I can't be bothered to read the other posts. It depends what type of mage you are, how you distribute your points, what skills you buy and how you perform in fights.

I'm a pure, or DD or whatever, every two levels, 9 of my points go on MAG and 1 goes on STR (for armour), but you probably alread know this. Since you are only 30 something you won't have experienced mjuch about higher levels. As a pure wizard, it gets easier as you level, usually in melee mob fights, I get hit once before killing them (hopefully). The skills you buy are also important, leveling the first 3 spells to 10 is useful, as they are fast channeling and still quite powerful.

I agree however that at the start, being a wizard is dificult if you're not use to the elements of the game, but trust me you will get used to it. Wizards are awesome. b:victory

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Wizard is not an easy class and is quite an expensive one if u want to improve survivability and dmg output, but I just love playing it.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

wizard and archers are basically the same damage wise. Our damage is dependant on mag points. More mag=more damage. As Aether said, as you go higher it gets easier. Archer is the same exact way more dex=more damage. etc

Wizard gear isnt too hard. Just get some nice molders/blood equips and throw in a few g5/g6 shards. I think a 9x wizard on the forums said they sharded wtih all g5 shards and still got excellent pdef. But when i get my endgame armor, im using immaculates b:dirty

I already got 8 saved up

Leprechaundh - Sanctuary

Piliener - Lost City wrote: »

it's a meter not foot range lol

And this matters why? The point of my comment still remains the same.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

by saying its a foot and not a meter your giving inaccurate information b:chuckle


Keep It Accurate Or Im Gonna Get You b:cool

Rinnve - Lost City

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Our damage is dependant on mag points. More mag=more damage. As Aether said, as you go higher it gets easier. Archer is the same exact way more dex=more damage.

This is not correct. Our spells have high fixed damage, so mag points part is just a fraction of it. Moreover, archers get much more for dex. They get not only damage, but accuracy, crits and evasion. So, full dex archer makes MUCH more sense than full int wizard.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

well if mag makes little sense, then why pure mag for a lot of damage? If mag didnt matter i bet we all be HA wizards b:chuckle

mag plays a big part in your damage.
mag gives your basic magic attack and thats what you need to pump your skills up to do the damage you need.

Isnt that why pure > LA (damage wise)
LA puts less points into mag

Forp - Heavens Tear

as imortant as base matk is, the weapon plays an equal role in damage for both clerics and mages.

Piliener - Lost City

Leprechaundh - Sanctuary wrote: »

And this matters why? The point of my comment still remains the same.

I was just making us not suck (totally). 1 meter = 3.2808399 feet so I wouldn't want anyone confusing the two. Also ouch 25ft casting b:chuckle

Rinnve - Lost City

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

mag plays a big part in your damage.

This was already calculated many times. Difference between pure wiz (max mag) and LA/vit (min required mag) is about 15% damage. Pure makes sense on later levels, when damage is so high that even 15% of it is significant enough to throw off additional survivability (and when this additional survivability is not high compared to refinements and shards).
Also, HA is not suited for wizards, its too tricky and expensive. Venos go HA 'cause their chickens of doom do all damage-works while they debuff in fox-form.

Amour - Lost City

Damage scales to level.
All damage modifiers are multiplied by your int, so that means the higher the level you are, the more int you can have. It's an exponential increase as well, especially considering you get higher grade weapons and they refine for more damage which is multiplied by the int you have.

With the options in gear there's not much of a reason to be anything but pure past 96, you're gimping yourself out of a lot of dmg.

tyrtallow

Mag works in ways that are subtler than just the figures you will see at your character screen.
Magic does not miss. Your base Matk is significantly affected by the Matk Cleric buff, and there is no equivalent Patk buff (the Wizard buff, if the description is correct, adds water damage). Magic also affects Mdef. There are 5 kinds of Mdef, and some armors lack some. Finally Mdef is more susceptible to diminishing returns - you can probably make a godly set of +x robes with decent Pdef, you can't do the same for LA/HA and Mdef. As a result Mag will always tend to hurt more.

Although I'm not particularly fond of the concept of a high level pure Mag Wizard or pure Dex Archer (there's always room for sneaking even a few points in other stats, I'm not against semi-pure), Mag is as important to Wizards as
Dex is for Archers.

Piliener - Lost City

tyrtallow wrote: »

(the Wizard buff, if the description is correct, adds water damage)

This only ads water dmg to the normal attack I believe though. Correct me if I'm wrong

Forp - Heavens Tear

it's just like the archers fire buff. it only adds damage to your natural physical attack.

Krel - Heavens Tear

Note to self:The thread starter has no common sence..case closed.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Krel FTW b:victory

Leprechaundh - Sanctuary

Note to self:The thread starter has no common sence..case closed.

Oh, perhaps that's why I had to answer half his questions with "I don't care" or "Suck it up" XD

Oh, I was so confuzed by myself...

Leprechaundh - Sanctuary

Oh yeah, I went back and read up on what ppl were saying about wizards being second to archers for FB/TT/ect, and would like to state that this is totally not true.

First off, people say wizards have less damage in general then archers. I do see how this is debatable, but you have to keep in mind that wizards NEVER EVER EVER EVER MISS. Though it is unlikely for an archer to miss due to their high dex, but it is possible, and every single miss adds up.

Secondly, wizards can heal, archers can not. Some say that the heal is almost worthless, but I can recall several times when the cleric died that I have saved everyone elses life and kept the squad from being wiped. I have even served as main healer for my own 202020 run, and we did just fine, even though the tank was blackout drunk (lulz).

Lastly, our AOEs. If I have to explain this you need to go away :P.

Everyone I play with that I have had convos on this topic with say they will choose a wizard over an archer any day, because a small amount of added damage could never ever over shadow the ability of a (good) wizard to save the squads **** from a cleric with a bad connection, is an agro feind, or is just really stupid.

I have also never heard of a wizard wiping their squad. It's usually a cleric, BM, or archer that does things like that.

PS: BMs r useless 4 FB/TT XD

Ursa - Dreamweaver

this is a flamewar starter b:chuckle

Wizards and archers are same kind of DD, one is magic, one is phys. Both can do a little of the other.
Because of that thing, these two chars complement eachother and whoever prefers having 2 archers in a TT/RB/Zhen instead of having 1 wizz and 1 archer has some issues I don't want to start discussing.
The much praised 15% HP helps on bosses, but helps if u do some dmg beside that, and that's where a wizz comes in.
Now, about survivability, archer being LA has some mdef and some pdef, and nothing good from either one of them. So, it's kinda' so and so. Wizz on the other hand, has great mdef and sucks at pdef. This problem can be fixed by SB + pdef shards and some intelligent shopping in AH.
At lower lvls an archer can easily kill a wizz, at higher (late 70 and 8x) these 2 chars are on par. From there on, the only thing that makes a difference is the player.

Jrudora - Lost City

With soporific whisper, and the genie's occult ice now, killing archers have become much easier. The genie skills have given wizards a whole new edge on pvp, so thats kinda neat.

But I still think sharpening tooth arrow's 16% hp damage on a boss is far better than anything else a mage can do in HH parties. After all, take Astral Walker from 2-3, who has roughly 5 mil hp. An archer can take out almost 800k of his hp in one sharpening tooth arrow. Shortens the run by a lot.

Tisa - Dreamweaver

@ Lody

Watch this vid, might cheer you up. This is where nobody surpasses wiz and their roll - Defense in TW at 90+.

Now you might never be as good as this guy in the vid, but don't worry, cuz the majority of the barbs he's 2 shotting won't be as good on your server either.

Hope it gives you some motivation.

http://zoome.jp/losstarot/diary/25

Ursa - Dreamweaver

With soporific whisper, and the genie's occult ice now, killing archers have become much easier. The genie skills have given wizards a whole new edge on pvp, so thats kinda neat.

But I still think sharpening tooth arrow's 16% hp damage on a boss is far better than anything else a mage can do in HH parties. After all, take Astral Walker from 2-3, who has roughly 5 mil hp. An archer can take out almost 800k of his hp in one sharpening tooth arrow. Shortens the run by a lot.

oh, I don't question that.
But think about that, combined with a cleric magic res debuf and a wizz hitting. Now that's what I call a teamwork.

Jrudora - Lost City

A veno with demon iron scarab, with defence break = crazzzyy damage from archers though =p

Ursa - Dreamweaver

good luck to the tank keeping aggro off two demon archers with 30+% crit if that demon scarab def break sticks b:chuckle

//Lelouch\ - Sanctuary17

Rezsonate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well i saw this once:
Ok, you're a wizard grats, wizards are one of the most needed classes. For we are the ONLY class that can be ****, slaughtered, murdered, 1 shotted, headshott'ed, ganked, pwned, owned, lol'ed at, so we reduce all other classes calling themself underpowered. We are essensial to the survival of human dignity in pvp. Please reach 30 to pvp, reach lv89 to suck.

Skills: Blue = Sucks alot Red = Sucks even more Yellow = Sucks somewhat Green = Important

Pyrogram : fires(literally) a ball of pure suckage that deals damage depending on how low your hp is.

Gush : Create a pillar of water that does nothing but annoy the hell out of melee right before they 1 shot you

Stone Rain : drop a load of **** on your enemy, making them annoyied enough to kill you

Pyroshell : burn yourself
Ice barrier : slows you down to get 1 shotted
Earth Shield : Reduces all physical damage inflicted by 0%

Crown of flames : makes your enemy look cute with a crown, does nothing.

hailstorm : skill used to make you waste spirit and coin

Divine pyrogram : fire a bigger ball of useless **** that takes longer to channel then to get 1 shotted

Morning Dew : skill to use as a white flag signaling "i give up"

PitFall : Skill used to describe your current status

Dragon's Breath : Skill used to show off to other players, increases chance to get 1 shotted by 100%

Wellspring Quaff : This skill increases your time before becoming useless by 50%

Distance Shrink : Skill used to **** every single class off, reduces chance of getting 1 shotted by 50%

Will of the Phoenix : closest we will get to having a phoenix 1 shot other people

Frostblade : most useful skill, allows other players to want a mage in party Max immedidly<----

SandStorm : Skill used to tick an enemies charm before dying

EmberStorm : Skill used to commit suicide so that other people cant kill you

Glacial Snare : Fires three arrows that deal 0 damage, pisses off all classes badly

Force of will : buys you time to run away depending on skill level

Blade Tempest : fires multiple badly animated fireballs

Black ice dragon : Charges up an ice dragon that has a 95% chance of getting interrupted

Mountain's Sieze : Closest thing we get to a stun

Undine Strike : Lowers defenses of your enemy by 60% so other people may kill him/her while you get 1 shotted

Sophomoric WHisper : Skill to make us happy that we have something clerics can do

Elemental Shell : used to **** clerics and other wizards off


Essencial Sutra : Skill to tell your enemy to stun you for 6 seconds
Masteries : Decreases chance of losing MP charms

Lvl 100 skills : Skills used to show how much time was wasted leveling a useless class.

Sparks : at 29(or39?) you get a skill called spark. this gives you a 1 second immunity to 1 shots.
at 59 youll get advanced spark, same thing, but 2 second immunity.
finally at 89, you can choose between demon or angel spark. Both have 1 effect, 3 second immunity to 1 shots.

Now, pvp tactics for Lv70-99+

Venomancers : If they have phoenix, strech a bit before returning to town
If they dont, then run since youll die anyway

Clerics : Run

BM/WB with XS : Run
WM/WB without XS : slow them then run

Archer : Silence before they can stun and run

Wizard : become best friends and get 4 other wizards so that you can actually kill someone


For 50-69

Veno : run, if they have phoenix, afk
WB : run, if they turn into tiger, swear at them before dying
BM : run, if they sprint then go grab a snack while waiting for town button.
Archer : afk, you're dead
Clerics : run (only class we have a chance of surviving with)


For 30-49:
Veno : if they got phoenix, you are dead, if not, you are still dead
WB : you're dead
BM : you're dead
archer : you're dead
cleric : ^DURR^


Now, builds:

Full int : Put everything into int to deal 2% more damage, increases chance of getting 1 shotted by 75%, decreases faith in wizards by 100%

Light armor : Deal less damage then an afk veno with pet on defensive and reduces chance of getting 1 shotted by 5%. Enough str and dex for your reduction in 1 shot equipment, pour other points into int, we'll need it being anyone who makes a wizard is dumber then a rock. Decreases faith in wizards by 100%

Hybrid : add int and vit and str any way you want, youll suck either way. Decreases faith in PWI by 60%

Heavy wizard : Best build to do what we do best : **** other classes off. Increases usefulness by 275%, decreases faith in wizards by 100%

Melee wizard : hey, we are already useless, might as well go for the gold. everything in str and dex. remember to max frostblade

Bow wizard : same thing as melee wizard, only now you deal slightly less damage, for increased range, max frostblade aswell

Monk wizard : do not use a weapon, youll lose more money repairing it then killing, also do not wear any armor, costs more money to repair then you gain.

Loot wizard : wizard created at level 29 best build of them all, as this build is immune to 1 shots, and amplifies our ****-off level by 500%. best for looting at undine grind spots or fish.

Facepalm wizard : female, with maximum bust size, generally used to beg for money and/or items since we will be extremely poor. best suited for levels under 30

Dumb wizard : suited for 89+, spending months of work to realize wizards suck



Now here are your stats and what they do :

Vit : Decreases chance of getting 1 shotted by 0.01% per point
Int : the higher this is, the lower yours is.
Dex : increases % of running away from other classes
Str : best stat, allows us to do damage without being 1 shotted or interrupted.


Grinding areas :
Level1-29, do quests
30-99+, safe zone if you are in a pvp server, stop reading this if you are on a pve server

As for your equipment sockets, add any gem you want, youll get 1 shotted with anything. Unless you are heavy, then add mana shards to make yourself look cool.

If you are short on cash, create any other class.

Wizards primary role in parties is to give melee frostblade, and as a distraction for mobs that will wipe the main party.

...pretty true so far. anyways wizards are supposed to be damage dealers. they really dont need much HP. I would like a small damage increase tho cuz by the time you channel and cast a spell other classes have already done the same amount of damage or so. again, a SMALL damage increase T.T (maybe a little skill modification like with Alacrity of the Beast)

Well I am not sure what you might have been doing wrong, but when my wizard was at lv.45 I went into pk for a trial test of my own valor.
My PK (winning) results:

Barb Vrijjid lv.45-2x
BM JackTheViper lv.50-4x
Cleric Daantee lv.47-1x
Veno Clarevipr lv.46-2x

Now for just being at lv.45 myself I must say my PK standing is not to shabby.
The reason for all of this ties down to one simple fact being a wizard ( one that survives) is strategy.

"All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer, but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved." b:bye

Leprechaundh - Sanctuary

@ Lody

Watch this vid, might cheer you up. This is where nobody surpasses wiz and their roll - Defense in TW at 90+.

Now you might never be as good as this guy in the vid, but don't worry, cuz the majority of the barbs he's 2 shotting won't be as good on your server either.

Hope it gives you some motivation.

http://zoome.jp/losstarot/diary/25

Somethings wrong with the vid...so yeah...

Sounds neat tho.

Taarloor - Harshlands

I only level with manufactured potions going at all times. that 50hp per second potion works wonders and at the moment it only takes me 3 spells to kill almost everything so only get hit once or twice max, which is recovered within a few seconds and im ready to kill the next crit. I'm finding it extremely efficient and i never use healing potions anymore. I usually target monsters a level or two lower than me as well, they die faster so I still gain exp quickly.

Have only died when being mobbed and 50hp p/sec potion ran out and when doing a quest i needed a group for.

Wizards are meant to be hard to use, and you need to think about what you do before you do it.

P.S. This is my first character too, but I'm sure i'll start whining once im lvl 3x and getting pk'd all the time, lol.

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Leprechaundh - Sanctuary wrote: »

Somethings wrong with the vid...so yeah...

Sounds neat tho.

lol if u look at the wiz in the vid hes lvl 101 and has 7.5k + hp thats some goood gear that wiz has. I wanna see some sage wiz though >.> ....