Mage unfair treatment

Forp - Heavens Tear

there's no proof for or against my claim. from experience of playing 68 levels with a barb, i've noticed that even if they reduce the accuracy of a boss type monster, it doesn't change how often it hits.

and, even if that sounds logical, on paper it is false.

accuracy is much like your defense. "diminishing returns" is what we call it? 100k~ accuracy, 70k of it might = 10% for all we know.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the accuracy debuff, no matter how good it is, doesn't affect a boss. u can't see a bosses accuracy. for all u know, you're trying to reduce 100k accuracy.

my sandstorm works with all bosses.
tested befudding with krixxix and it works.

well... i can't grant you the effect works in practise but it shows curse icon on boss instead of resist. i couldn't find any info concerning accuracy of bosses but i assume it must be lower than that. that because sometimes drummer misses me with AOE.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

also if your talking about wizard SS debuff, then it takes out a % of that. More accuracy the merrier ^^

Piliener - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

there's no proof for or against my claim. from experience of playing 68 levels with a barb, i've noticed that even if they reduce the accuracy of a boss type monster, it doesn't change how often it hits.

and, even if that sounds logical, on paper it is false.

accuracy is much like your defense. "diminishing returns" is what we call it? 100k~ accuracy, 70k of it might = 10% for all we know.

I think I'm joining the Forp is always wrong catageory. Lets say you hit a boss with a 30% acc redux. Lets use arbitrary numbers to make life easy 100k acc. 100k * .7 = 70k and use a player who has 10k acc. 10k * .7 = 7k. Now of course the player will miss more often than the boss, but the boss will miss substantially more with an acc redux. Been there done that if you want to test it go tank fb19 a few times and try with and w/o sandstorm see which boss misses more. Last I checked 70k < 100k b:shocked

Prediction - Lost City

your range sucks? what are you talking about?

your range is 28m, that's 2m less than an archer until 89 when demon gets 32m and sage 34m

but still, wiz range isn't short compared to an archer's range, and archers are supposed to have the longest range (even if it isn't by much)

Ursa - Dreamweaver

wizzard range doesn't suck unless u don't have skills upgraded maximum for your lvl.
To have all skills upgraded a little is a huge downsize in dmg and range to have a few essentials maxed. You can easily fall into a trap with the wizz ans skill options. And because we have no "normal" attk that can be a crippeling mistake.

Forp - Heavens Tear

Piliener - Lost City wrote: »

I think I'm joining the Forp is always wrong catageory. Lets say you hit a boss with a 30% acc redux. Lets use arbitrary numbers to make life easy 100k acc. 100k * .7 = 70k and use a player who has 10k acc. 10k * .7 = 7k. Now of course the player will miss more often than the boss, but the boss will miss substantially more with an acc redux. Been there done that if you want to test it go tank fb19 a few times and try with and w/o sandstorm see which boss misses more. Last I checked 70k < 100k b:shocked

always the people from lost city. why is that?

i stated that the debuff will not affect a boss because of the sheer amount of accuracy they have. have u ever tanked a physical boss? i'm more than willing to say u haven't, u seem clueless as it is.

maybe your feeble mind will understand with an example:

at level 100, 10k = 79% chance to hit. 20k = 87%. 30k = 91%. accuracy and evasion suffer from diminishing returns just like everything else. the range between that 30k to 100k is so minor that losing all of it will not affect how accurate they are. getting rid of it all will not stop that boss from hitting u just as often as he did before.

Werebeasts - Sanctuary

im a lvl 40 wiz now and its jsut hard tro me prob cause iwas rusty i almsot quit but then i thought well look at the bright side its over i can finnaly make a new class but it al lwent wrong barbs got repairs up the **** bms are to low on hp and i have no time to waste venos borrrring abd clerics well i dont like healing others so im going with my mage agian just 20 more lvls till 60 and from what i herd lvl 50s pretty easy so

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

50 isnt easy, 60 pve is a joke. Its sad actually i can aggro a bunch of mobs and come out alive with 1.5% Xp gain

Forp - Heavens Tear

50? tusk town? that's a joke for wizards. all metal mobs. few earth, 1-2 physical. foxwings right outside of town. not to mention they just learned force of will. the greatest spell of all time.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

when i was 50 i was stupid and went LA. epic phailz b:surrender

meaangirl

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

50 isnt easy, 60 pve is a joke. Its sad actually i can aggro a bunch of mobs and come out alive with 1.5% Xp gain

I guess if you want to waste more pots, have higher repair cost, and make it harder on yourself, then sure. And unless the mob is poison-based, you'll constantly get interrupted and it would be faster to kill 1 by 1. Too bad you'll never do as well as a cleric AoE grinding b:chuckle

Piliener - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

always the people from lost city. why is that?

i stated that the debuff will not affect a boss because of the sheer amount of accuracy they have. have u ever tanked a physical boss? i'm more than willing to say u haven't, u seem clueless as it is.

maybe your feeble mind will understand with an example:

at level 100, 10k = 79% chance to hit. 20k = 87%. 30k = 91%. accuracy and evasion suffer from diminishing returns just like everything else. the range between that 30k to 100k is so minor that losing all of it will not affect how accurate they are. getting rid of it all will not stop that boss from hitting u just as often as he did before.

Did you fail all your math classes? It seems so because last I checked even 91% < 100%. So Mr. All powerful know everything why debuff a boss at all if it doesn't work? Why then is one of the main strategies against any of the bosses to get all the debuffs possible on it? Ever done a GZ run I'd imagine not otherwise you would know that debuffs ESPECIALLY accuracy are essential to winning b:bye b:shutup

Forp - Heavens Tear

listen u fool, the difference between hitting 91% of the time and 100% of the time is so inferior that using an -accuracy debuff WILL NOT AFFECT HOW MUCH IT HITS.

jesus ****ing christ.

and for the love of god, -accuracy debuff essential in pve? who are u trying to kid? really.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

meaangirl wrote: »

I guess if you want to waste more pots, have higher repair cost, and make it harder on yourself, then sure. And unless the mob is poison-based, you'll constantly get interrupted and it would be faster to kill 1 by 1. Too bad you'll never do as well as a cleric AoE grinding b:chuckle

meh its not hardb:chuckle get a bunch of em and watch the dragon make them go bai baib:bye

Amour - Lost City

wizards don't aoe grind unless they zhen.
tch tch

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

well i couldnt zhen cuz i had 100k on my charm and i did a few TT runs which got me down to 80k and i had a schedule zhen with my charms so that i can level a bit. So i decided to quest a bit and aoe'ing the mobs was a bit faster and more fun than pyro > gush > pyro > gush

Piliener - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

listen u fool, the difference between hitting 91% of the time and 100% of the time is so inferior that using an -accuracy debuff WILL NOT AFFECT HOW MUCH IT HITS.

jesus ****ing christ.

and for the love of god, -accuracy debuff essential in pve? who are u trying to kid? really.

OK maybe you did fail math. Let's try fractions 91% is equal to .91 which is equal to 91/100. When you do the math there is a ~1/10th chance with EVERY hit that they will miss. Without that debuff they won't have that chance to miss now will they? I think I have figured out your problem Forp did you roll a melee wiz? Is that why you always give wrong advice and try miserably to defend yourself? Take off the HA carry a wand and try being a casting class. If not then go make a BM or a Barb and ruin that class too. Go roll a RA Barb let me know how much MP they need b:laugh. Now b:shutup and let the people who are trying to learn do so.

Forp - Heavens Tear

you automatically believe 100k is 100% accuracy? bosses still miss, even without a debuff. if 91% is 30k accuracy, and they're still missing with 100k accuracy. that means *gasp* they don't have 100% accuracy. so you're debuffing them from ~99% accuracy to 91%.

but of course, that's a very significant number and very vital when fighting a boss. -8% chance to hit, the barb will surely dodge every single attack.

Piliener - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you automatically believe 100k is 100% accuracy? bosses still miss, even without a debuff. if 91% is 30k accuracy, and they're still missing with 100k accuracy. that means *gasp* they don't have 100% accuracy. so you're debuffing them from ~99% accuracy to 91%.

but of course, that's a very significant number and very vital when fighting a boss. -8% chance to hit, the barb will surely dodge every single attack.

Ok so you failed both math and reading comp? Where anywhere did I say every single attack?

Forp - Heavens Tear

sigh.

i wont waste my time arguing this any further. it's obvious this has gone way over your head.

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Are you sure you want to add Forp - Heavens Tear to your ignore list?

Forp - Heavens Tear

Message
We can't help you ignore yourself.

grats though, i have no idea who you are.

Piliener - Lost City

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sigh.

this has gone way over your head.

Hmmm he can't do math, can't comprehend the English language, can't learn when to b:shutup, and doesn't work well with others. I'm sorry, but you need to repeat the 4th grade. Are you sure your not in violation of the TOS Forp? Might want to double check that. b:infuriated

Jrudora - Lost City

I think what Forp meant was that, since bosses have abnormally high accuracy to begin with, that Sandstorm wouldn't be of much use.
And due to diminishing returns, it only gets worse.
For example, (using his example), if a boss has 100,000 accuracy, and the average player has about 1000 - 2000 evasion (well, not this high usually), the boss would hit you probably 99% of the time. If you used sandstorm, 50k accuracy is still a hell of a lot higher than your 2000 evasion, which renders the 50% reduction fairly useless. You'll still be evading maybe 2% of the time.

The only thing that would break this theory is if we get some actual numbers and find out that bosses have only the same accuracy as a regular mob.

Forp - Heavens Tear

you can't agree with me, are you crazy? you're breaking the law b:shocked

Jrudora - Lost City

I'll agree with whatever I feel makes sense.

Nerithos - Sanctuary

Dun dun dun...and the plot thickens.

Anyhow, SS to me makes barely a difference on bosses. They hit so accurately that, as Jrudora (and Forp) said, a 50% reduction won't do jack *** to your evasion percentage.

~zel

Piliener - Lost City

Have you started doin Rebirth yet Jrudora? I have no clue what Forp said he's ignore now. I was never saying it will make them miss a hell of a lot more, just more. Anyone who doesn't take Sandstorm's Acc redux into account loses. Can a Rebirth be done w/o our debuffs, yes if everyone else crits all the time. I don't really care about the fb bosses and such start doing some world bosses and some Rebirths and try to not thank every single miss you get. I'll take barely a difference over no difference anyday.

Forp - Heavens Tear

lol, you think world bosses miss. b:surrender