Sword Bms Are The Best

135

Comments

  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Lyndura, the formulas are to calculate the both ends of the physical damage (the max and the min). if the formulas are true or not is not important as you already have the numbers.

    aparently you want to add mag attack. Again on both weapons the attack value is 1 (and insiginicant anyways compared to the physical). So, it should not alter the results.

    The weapon that does higher attack should do more damage as result.

    Therefore, I'm not interested in how real damage is calculated. The damage for sure depends on the attack you do and the defence your opponent has.

    /facepalm

    I don't know why sometimes I even bother, lol. You didn't understand anything.
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Question for you:

    Can you tell me if I;m calculating the average DPS right?

    Based on your numbers

    the sword

    (3657+5115)*0.5*1.25=5482.00

    for the poleblade
    (3699+4366)*0.5*1.11=3921.00


    am I doing this right?

    Yes, I don't even need any other number to tell that is right. What you are doing is calculating the "average" damage you would hit. That answer to the equations would pretty much be the median, multiplied by the attack speed of the weapon. The attack speed of the weapon only affects the damage though if normal attacks were being used.

    Now, Lyndura. I have seen an equation like that, but imo it doesn't matter. If there was an equation that was involved which would make somebody with a weaker weapon that would give them less damage better damage output and stronger in the end that would be ludacris and make abosolutely no sense. We would have level 30's griefing QQme for a change. That would also make the stats on our own characters complete bull****.

    Now you seem to be mentioning how players and mobs resistances, and defense levels take part in this. Yes, of course they do, that is a given.. Also how there is a damage reduct in PvP. Are you that AirHeaded, of course I know this and of course most (If not all, there's idiots like you out there) have realized this! This is the thing, regardless of any little unofficial formula of yours, as long as we are attacking the same mob, lets say with normal attacks to make it easier for you, the blade WILL be doing the same amount of damage. Common sense, think about it Lyndura. I am sure everybody can agree with me on this.

    There is no official formula, and it doesn't matter if there is one to know which would make you stronger.

    If in fact there was a formula which had variable (That make no sense) to make weaker players stronger than the actually stronger ones, then this would be the most unbalanced PoS game I have ever seen.

    Yes, resistance and defense levels need to be taken into consideration.. But the problem is, it's not that big of a deal b:shocked
    If you or anybody wanted to test the damage out on something, you pick the same damn thing. That's how it works. Naturally, the one with the higher stats will be the one to out damage with basic attack strength.

    Now, since you enjoy to throw out useless stuff for me to think about, how about this? Take into consideration your critical hit percentage. Yes, there is the possibility of having a lucky, constant flow of critical hits. That isn't your total damage though, it is just a chance for an additional double strike and is there as an edge in PvP or PvE. Oh noes, I dunno the formula for this, whats the formula for the resistances (% reduction) from our stats, oops.. whats the formula for the chance on getting 2 add-on +3% crit on my gear?!b:question

    If I knew what it was I bet it wouldn't be as insane as your idea on the formula for damage.

    I am sure everybody can agree with me on this.b:bye
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Because it is not accurate, physical damage do not equals final damage.

    Physical damage is just a part of the formula to get the real damage, STR, Level, Mastery...a lot of things affect the final damage, not just physical damage.

    You can go around and ask in other classes forums. For example, go to the Wizards forum and ask for the way to calculate your damage. Or even go to older versions of PW to ask for information.

    /facepalm

    Ignorance is a bliss I guess..
    Why don't you roll a character, and watch your damage increase as you RAISE the stuff you mentioned, mastery, STR, etc...FYI The level has nothing to do with PvP, that is strictly PvE. All that matters is the fact that if you have higher DAMAGE, you will hit harder. If you don't know what that is hit "c" and look at the total damage you have. Same goes with Wiz, they have INSANE magic damage, on top of insane damage with the skills. On top of that, the high magic resistance seems to be alot less common than with physical.

    Oh Lyndura, the way defense level and attack level works is each level acts as 1% increase to either defense or damage as a whole.

    BTW, i'm back people. Glad to see you again, and glad to see Gran seeing through her BS. ^^
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    /facepalm

    I don't know why sometimes I even bother, lol. You didn't understand anything.

    Its true, I cant understand what you say and I cant find any who does or agree with you on this.
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Its true, I cant understand what you say and I cant find any who does or agree with you on this.

    None of it makes sense, and she constantly changes the subject that we're discussing. She throws everything out of wack, and trys to make it more complicated than it really is.
  • Zhoelle - Sanctuary
    Zhoelle - Sanctuary Posts: 203 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    b:sad
    Much as I love a good battle of words, I've almost lost track of what we're debating! I actually think all of you have provided useful information, despite your disagreements.

    Lyndura raises a good point in bringing up the fact that there is no official formula to go by (some folks have tried to "reverse engineer" it, and come up with some theories on what the formula might be).

    So, what is the alternative? Looking at stats between equivalent level BM's with different builds provides some clues. But there are so many complications: the interplay of formulas determining damage, bringing in skills to the mix, and then intangibles such as how people use the skills to best advantage.

    So, who's right? I don't know. Personally, I'm fascinated and very interested in this discussion. I hope you don't get too distracted by your disagreements - the quest for knowledge is built upon healthy debates. Keep at it...convince me.b:pleased

    As another wise player once said (okay, lots have said it), "it's all about how well you play your character and use its skills to their best advantage".
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    b:sad
    Much as I love a good battle of words, I've almost lost track of what we're debating! I actually think all of you have provided useful information, despite your disagreements.

    Lyndura raises a good point in bringing up the fact that there is no official formula to go by (some folks have tried to "reverse engineer" it, and come up with some theories on what the formula might be).

    So, what is the alternative? Looking at stats between equivalent level BM's with different builds provides some clues. But there are so many complications: the interplay of formulas determining damage, bringing in skills to the mix, and then intangibles such as how people use the skills to best advantage.

    So, who's right? I don't know. Personally, I'm fascinated and very interested in this discussion. I hope you don't get too distracted by your disagreements - the quest for knowledge is built upon healthy debates. Keep at it...convince me.b:pleased

    As another wise player once said (okay, lots have said it), "it's all about how well you play your character and use its skills to their best advantage".

    Yeah... yesterday almost every one of her posts threw something new into the debate, that had nothing to do with whhat we were previously debating. It all started from her telling me that a +3 HH80 gold was better than the HH90 gold Firelotus, Blade of the dragon. Which was in fact, not even close to as good not including the add-on berserk. Which she claims the formula she believes is true, shows that even though she has less damage shown on the character, she's in fact just as strong, or even more powerful than she is with the blade.

    She threw in pointless comparisons, maybe because she didn't want to look like a fool.. but yeah.. like the HH90 GX and the Firelotus. And the whole thing kept being changed, and here we are at the basis of what she believes is the true formula for damage. I am glad she mentioned it isn't proven, or shown official, but for that reason she shouldn't be pushing it on us like the bible.

    She explained that the way the formula works, it throws in the defese/attack levels of mobs and players, as well as other variables that would make someone weaker in fact stronger than the person with higher damage and stats. That makes no sense, as I stated before.. then i'd really be scared of Exodus b:shocked

    Yeah, it has been great, and helped me ensure I have an understanding on how things work, and hopefully helped others. I'm sure alot can be learned from every post in here.

    And player does have more to do with good gaming, and knowing your character as well. That's a great thing to point out, i mentioned in one of the previous posts briefly. ^^


    There's a quick, rundown on whats been goin down. I'm sure I missed out on some of what's been debated. :P
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    All you guys do is prove all my points.

    Pretty much everything has been said already. Continuing would just involve repeating and repeating the same points over and over again. While it would be something to do, I'm tired of it, and trying to convince two people about something they will probably never understand is a waste of time.

    People can read and the smart ones will get knowledge from this.

    @Maddrox:

    Many pots ago, I said that I never said that my HH80 Gold Spear was better than Firelotus, I said that it has the same base damage output than it.

    /facepalm

    You couldn't even understand that.

    EDIT: I'll even quote it for you:
    Too bad a +7 Firelotus with Perfect garnet shards barely has the same/ a little more base damage output than my +3 HH80 Gold Spear.
    Yes, this must be the right weapon (Finally T.T) But the problem is, it sucks in comparison. FireLotus's berserk. The damage is still higher on the blade (Which is SAD, it's a single blade, come on!).

    Here with your builds it came out this way:

    Firelotus: 3657-5115
    JadeHeart: 3649-4916

    Can you see where the words "too bad" and "barely" came from?

    Here you proved my point, thanks.


    Now, make the Jade Heart: Radiance +7 w/ the two shards.

    The Minimum damage is only 400 higher on the Jade Heart, and the Max only about 250 higher. But, the blade has berserk, jade doesn't have anything to back it up. This fight would depend more on the player skill, but even at that, the FireLotus owns this one yet again.
    I never said Jade Heart was a better weapon, or that it outdamages Firelotus with Berserker. I just said that Firelotus barely has the same/a little more base damage (without Berserker) than my HH80 gold spear.

    And I said "too bad" because of the same reason.

    If I'd wanted to compare which weapon is the best, I would compare GX, Angder and Firelotus (we already know which one is the best, it is in order).
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    All you guys do is prove all my points.

    Pretty much everything has been said already. Continuing would just involve repeating and repeating the same points over and over again. While it would be something to do, I'm tired of it, and trying to convince two people about something they will probably never understand is a waste of time.

    People can read and the smart ones will get knowledge from this.

    @Maddrox:

    Many pots ago, I said that I never said that my HH80 Gold Spear was better than Firelotus, I said that it has the same base damage output than it.

    /facepalm

    You couldn't even understand that.

    Oh but it doesn't Lyndura b:shocked

    And that goes along with "being weaker" of a weapon..

    Your points have constantly been proven wrong. So you haven't been proven right, unless you were trying to prove that your information has been messed up this whole time.

    God, I think your worse than Zoe.. At least she has her information right, and everything she believes is based on opinion. She's not as air-headed as you.
    x3
    Any person with the intellect of the average human would have quit trying long ago, all your explaining on the formula you believe in was make you look even dumber than you did before. Interesting, but a bunch of nonsense.
    And you can't say you;ve proven anythign right, the only thing you were proven right on was shown as a fact, and agreed upon. Also all of that stuff were completely off topic. I think it was a set-up for your impending doom foreseen by man and you acted upon it.b:surrender

    We understand how this works, it doesn't take rocket science to even tell who is going to be stronger or more powerful on what. o.0
    Your "formula" was created to try and be able to tell what the expected damage range would be on mob's/players based upon your stats, and the enemies stats. That is all.. You have just taken the whole thing out of proportion, and either you suck at math or the formula is bogus. I'll try to get all constructive again :D

    BTW, if you keep facpalming yourself like that your just going to not make much more sense than you already do.. Take care of yourself. I think I understand where this confusion of yours is coming from D:

    Self-defecation isn't a beautiful art.
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I edited and quoted it for you, so it can be easiest to understand for you, I lowered the difficulty to your level.
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I edited and quoted it for you, so it can be easiest to understand for you, I lowered the difficulty to your level.

    Lets use your logic for a bit:

    I go to the store to buy an item. The clerc tells me the price for that item is $100.00

    Since, I dont know the formula for the store to come to that price but acording to your logic, as I dont know the formula and the formula is secret for everyone. $100 is not the real price even though they are telling me it is?
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    /facepalm


    NOTE: I'll work with Magic damage, because it is just easier than physical damage.

    For example, a "famous" formula to calculate the Magical damage is the one from Cayeon's guide:

    ([(1+(MAG/100))*(Level + Equipment Magical Attack)] + (MAG + Weapon Magical Attack)*(Magical Attack % from skill) + (skill add-on damage))*(100%+Mastery%)

    I think it is correct, if I missed something and someone notices please tell me.

    Once you get your total damage, there is another formula to calculate the damage vs. the total magical defense of the opponent (which is another formula). Then you will get your damage against an specific opponent.

    On top of that mobs/bosses have defense levels, which will affect the final damage too. You can see this specially on mobs with [?] level, which usually have a fixed defense level, reason why we hit them for a much lower damage than the usual on mobs, by the way, mobs have defense levels too.

    It is easier to see this on players, because not all the players have defense level, reason why a PvP damage reduction is applied.

    For example, with 7k mdef, high 9x Wizards in Lost City usually hit me for 2~3k per skill, but remember that there is a PvP reduction affecting it, if we took it off then we see that the real damage is 8~12k per hit.

    That is what pretty much stop us from going around one-shotting each other, because our real damage is too high.

    Reason why in PvP the damage between classes doesn't seem that different, but in PvE the damage difference is pretty huge, specially the higher level we get.

    Now, why is different with physical attack?

    Because even when people have tried to get a formula to calculate physical attack, it wouldn't work with all the weapons, or changing the builds. Not only that, our Masteries work different than Magical ones, and there is a formula to get Weapon damage too.

    One theory is that weapons have a fixed number that will affect the damage, for example let's say that Sword has 0.2 and Axes have 0.4, so even if you get a Sword with the same physical attack and build as the Axes, the latter ones will still deal a higher damage because of the fixed number.

    Also there're theories that say that DEX will affect the maximum/minimum damage output in the damage, but once more, just theories.

    So because of this (not having an official formula), the only real way to test and prove things is in game.


    "/facepalm"

    Stop that >_>

    "For example, with 7k mdef, high 9x Wizards in Lost City usually hit me for 2~3k per skill, but remember that there is a PvP reduction affecting it, if we took it off then we see that the real damage is 8~12k per hit."

    I can only think of one good phrase for this... "dee dee dee"


    "On top of that mobs/bosses have defense levels, which will affect the final damage too. You can see this specially on mobs with [?] level, which usually have a fixed defense level, reason why we hit them for a much lower damage than the usual on mobs, by the way, mobs have defense levels too."


    Yes. I am aware of that, and basically all that comes down to is the fact some mobs have more defense and take less damage. This in no way affects characters base damages as shown in "C". Now with magic, of course if they have a weaker resistance to the element of the attack.. But that wasn't the issue from the start. That's another given, thank you for the obvious.

    "Also there're theories that say that DEX will affect the maximum/minimum damage output in the damage, but once more, just theories."

    Theories from failed, wanna-be philosphers. If Dex affected the max/min damage output in any way, it would be shown in the statistics. Nothing changes but in most cases, the evasion, accuracy, and critical %. Thank you for reminding everybody it is just a theory, which is most likely not true.


    "Because even when people have tried to get a formula to calculate physical attack, it wouldn't work with all the weapons, or changing the builds. Not only that, our Masteries work different than Magical ones, and there is a formula to get Weapon damage too."

    We have been speaking of physical damage from the start, so i'm going to stck with that. Yes, of course skills, masteries, and your attributes affect your total damage. But Lyndura, have you not realized that everything is automatically calculated for you and shown in the total damage output? The skills tell how they calculate the end resulting damage. Just calculatee the minimum and maximum and you have your answer, now the server calculates what the total damage done would be based on the resistance that is applies to your attack. Not hard to understand imo. When you add STR, the more you have, the more each point is worth in your damage. That is calculated for you already. The formula is used to calculate the total resulting damage in the end like you said, but you're using it wrong! There are no variables that affect the damage so big that it would make a weaker character more powerful than someone stronger. That just doesn't work. I'll buy that the moment I see someone with 500-900 damage outdamaging somebody with 2900-4200 damage. That will never happen, and if it does, then that means this game is f*cked up and i'd have to quit.
    THAT is the point that I have been trying to make to you since yesterday. Your view on weapons and damages are all messed up. I think I covered everything here :S


    "Now, why is different with physical attack?"


    What were you trying to say?


    "One theory is that weapons have a fixed number that will affect the damage, for example let's say that Sword has 0.2 and Axes have 0.4, so even if you get a Sword with the same physical attack and build as the Axes, the latter ones will still deal a higher damage because of the fixed number."

    Here's one thing to keep in consideration. When equipping new gear the difference in stats is always larger than it should be based on the stat differences based said on the gear. Now that may have to do with some sort of a multiplier with the base damage you have at the time, or something of that sort. Tbh, I don't care for doing any research on this because it doesn't matter. This can be figured the same as with the weapons.

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0dd746a3d0afe1bb

    First equip a Lvl 4 Bison horn ring PAtk +2.
    Notice it gives +6 PAtk.

    Second equip a lvl 11 Cat's eye ring PAtk +6
    Notice it gives +19 PAtk

    Third equip a lvl 19 Rhino horn ring PAtk +12
    Notice it gives +39 PAtk

    There seems to be some sort of a multiplier involved, and when you unequip the weapon the damage total for the player goes down. Now do it again...

    First equip a Lvl 4 Bison horn ring PAtk +2.
    Notice it gives +5 PAtk.

    Second equip a lvl 11 Cat's eye ring PAtk +6
    Notice it gives +14 PAtk

    The multiplier went down, so it may be based upon the damage of the players total damage. I am assuming it is based on a multiplier because with refining, it is based off multipliers.. Not about to bother figuring it out because that doesn't matter

    The point is that the difference ALWAYS show's up in thetotal damage output.

    Which, again just has to do with the resistances on the target. So therefore, if someone with two different total damage output would attack the same thing, it would correspond to their own total damage. I hope I was able to explain this clearly enough..

    "NOTE: I'll work with Magic damage, because it is just easier than physical damage.

    For example, a "famous" formula to calculate the Magical damage is the one from Cayeon's guide:

    ([(1+(MAG/100))*(Level + Equipment Magical Attack)] + (MAG + Weapon Magical Attack)*(Magical Attack % from skill) + (skill add-on damage))*(100%+Mastery%)

    I think it is correct, if I missed something and someone notices please tell me."


    The formula just explains in detail all the factors in the resulting damage. Yeah yeah yeah... not a big deal. The server does this itself. With magic the results are far more unpredictable since there are multiple elements for the attacks, and in resistances. So this wouldn't be a good example to work with. It is far more straightforward with physical attack. Now for a equation for physical attack it would calculate the resistance, skill damages and %, possibility for a critical hit, etc. etc. Nothing to prove here, it's nothing complicated to understand. What you don't seem to get though, is that there is no way the weapon's that were compared yesterday could have near the same damage output. The ONLY way would be because of skills, and I mentioned that already, but the damage as whole has a difference. If there was a spear skill that was epicly strong and would outdamage some blade skill, then if the blade could use that skill to then of course the spear would be outdamaged by far!! Therefore, the difference is great, the base damages wouldn't be near the same. It is impossible, and it is already calculated, nothing hidden or special.


    I hope i covered everything, and some feedback would be nice on if everything I stated made complete sense from some of the viewers. b:bye
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Lets use your logic for a bit:

    I go to the store to buy an item. The clerc tells me the price for that item is $100.00

    Since, I dont know the formula for the store to come to that price but acording to your logic, as I dont know the formula and the formula is secret for everyone. $100 is not the real price even though they are telling me it is?

    roflmfao that was epic, and so true.
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I'll quote myself once more:
    All you guys do is prove all my points.

    Pretty much everything has been said already. Continuing would just involve repeating and repeating the same points over and over again. While it would be something to do, I'm tired of it, and trying to convince two people about something they will probably never understand is a waste of time.

    People can read and the smart ones will get knowledge from this.

    @Maddrox:

    Many pots ago, I said that I never said that my HH80 Gold Spear was better than Firelotus, I said that it has the same base damage output than it.

    /facepalm

    You couldn't even understand that.

    EDIT: I'll even quote it for you:
    Too bad a +7 Firelotus with Perfect garnet shards barely has the same/ a little more base damage output than my +3 HH80 Gold Spear.
    Yes, this must be the right weapon (Finally T.T) But the problem is, it sucks in comparison. FireLotus's berserk. The damage is still higher on the blade (Which is SAD, it's a single blade, come on!).

    Here with your builds it came out this way:

    Firelotus: 3657-5115
    JadeHeart: 3649-4916

    Can you see where the words "too bad" and "barely" came from?

    Here you proved my point, thanks.


    Now, make the Jade Heart: Radiance +7 w/ the two shards.

    The Minimum damage is only 400 higher on the Jade Heart, and the Max only about 250 higher. But, the blade has berserk, jade doesn't have anything to back it up. This fight would depend more on the player skill, but even at that, the FireLotus owns this one yet again.
    I never said Jade Heart was a better weapon, or that it outdamages Firelotus with Berserker. I just said that Firelotus barely has the same/a little more base damage (without Berserker) than my HH80 gold spear.

    And I said "too bad" because of the same reason.

    If I'd wanted to compare which weapon is the best, I would compare GX, Angder and Firelotus (we already know which one is the best, it is in order).

    The only thing that you guys don't seem to be able to understand is that "Physical attack" do not means final damage.
    Lets use your logic for a bit:

    I go to the store to buy an item. The clerc tells me the price for that item is $100.00

    Since, I dont know the formula for the store to come to that price but acording to your logic, as I dont know the formula and the formula is secret for everyone. $100 is not the real price even though they are telling me it is?

    B = 50
    C = A + B

    C1 = 250
    C2 = 249

    A1 = 200
    A2 = 199

    Person A: Too bad C1 barely is the same/a little more than C2.
    Person B: omg u nub u dunt c dat dey R so different.
    Person A: No, I have both, C1 and C2, I know what they are like.
    Person B: K, ill do da math n prove u wrong
    Person A: Ok.
    Person B: A1 = 200 & A2 = 199 dey R not even close
    Person A: I was talking about C, not A, plus A1 and A2 ARE close to each other
    Person B: wut u talking about dey are different
    Person A: No, A is not C, they are different. C = A + B
    Person C: but A1 is better than A2 how can that be possible? u R wrong
    Person A: As I said, C1 is barely equal/a little higher than C2
    Person B and C: lolololo u nub u dunt c dat u say dat C2 is better dan C1 and dat is not true C1 has haxing skill!!one11
    Person A: I never said it was better, I said that C1 barely is equal/a little higher than C2
    Person B: $%&/(#/%$%!""#
    Person A: Ok
    Person B: !%&/($#%&#$%!"
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I'll quote myself once more:

    You must not have read my post, it filtered through everything and your failed logic. I even threw in a few cookies like a provable theory that i'm too lazy to work with.


    It would take many +'s to catch up with the Firelotus, keep that in mind.
    Also with this situation you cannot ignore the add-ons, or your +70 PAtk wouldn't be counted as part of the damage. Making your +3 far more than pointless. The fact that berserker is on the Firelotus, and so far it seems to proc more on high dex players, makes it a much better choice between the two. Dont try to say you never said either one was better, because even though you didn't specifically, this has everything to do with your first statemment. ALSO, the blades naturally are the WEAKEST of all of our weapons. The fact that this is better in so many ways, is quite impressive. Even in comparison to your HH90's.

    Don't be so closed minded about this, this is a healthy debate.
    I have taken everything you've said in great detail, and unfortunately doesn't have much sense in it. Thank you.
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I'll quote myself once more:



    The only thing that you guys don't seem to be able to understand is that "Physical attack" do not means final damage.

    Nobody is saying that Physical attack=final damage.

    However, the two are related, the bigger the physical attack, the bigger the final damage.

    Therefore, the physical attack can be used to determine which weapon doe s more final damage. Which is the argument.
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Get glasses, learn to read, or stop being so ignorant. I have said MANY times that your physical attack is NOT the result you get on the ending damage due to the variables, and that has NEVER been the issues here. Quit changing everything up. I have stated this in MANY posts. I have even given details. Keep to the topic here Lyndura.
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Nobody is saying that Physical attack=final damage.

    However, the two are related, the bigger the physical attack, the bigger the final damage.

    Therefore, the physical attack can be used to determine which weapon doe s more final damage. Which is the argument.

    Yes, you seem to be more intelligent.

    I said that the base damage of both weapons (without counting Berserker) is barely the same/a little higher from part of Firelotus.

    Mad thought I said that the Spear is better weapon than Firelotus, and he keeps saying that, even when I already told him that I didn't say that.

    He did the math and found that the difference is like 100~200 physical attack between both weapons.

    Do you see how they are barely the same/a little higher from part of Firelotus?

    You can see it here:
    Yes, this must be the right weapon (Finally T.T) But the problem is, it sucks in comparison. FireLotus's berserk. The damage is still higher on the blade (Which is SAD, it's a single blade, come on!).

    Here with your builds it came out this way:

    Firelotus: 3657-5115
    JadeHeart: 3649-4916

    Can you see where the words "too bad" and "barely" came from?

    Here you proved my point, thanks.


    Now, make the Jade Heart: Radiance +7 w/ the two shards.

    The Minimum damage is only 400 higher on the Jade Heart, and the Max only about 250 higher. But, the blade has berserk, jade doesn't have anything to back it up. This fight would depend more on the player skill, but even at that, the FireLotus owns this one yet again.
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Yes, you seem to be more intelligent.



    Do you see how they are barely the same/a little higher from part of Firelotus?


    the sword

    (3657+5115)*0.5*1.25=5482.00

    for the poleblade
    (3699+4366)*0.5*1.11=3921.00


    am I doing this right?

    it seems to me that sword does 5482/3921=1.39. which means 39% more attack.


    that should also make a big difference in final damage.
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    the sword

    (3657+5115)*0.5*1.25=5482.00

    for the poleblade
    (3699+4366)*0.5*1.11=3921.00


    am I doing this right?

    it seems to me that sword does 5482/3921=1.39. which means 39% more attack.


    that should also make a big difference in final damage.

    You're using the wrong numbers, that Mad gave when he thought I was talking about another weapon and not JadeHeart.

    The numbers you are looking for and that Mad gave are:

    Firelotus: 3657-5115
    JadeHeart: 3649-4916


    Do you see everything now?
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Yes. The base damage is close, that has been covered. ..and?

    The two still cannot compare.

    We've moved on to your illogical way of thinking, and educating everybody else with some useful information ^_^

    Are you finished yet?
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Yes. The base damage is close, that has been covered. ..and?

    The two still cannot compare.

    We've moved on to your illogical way of thinking, and educating everybody else with some useful information ^_^

    Are you finished yet?

    That is the question I ask to you: Are you finished yet?

    I said that "too bad Firelotus barely has the same/a little higher base damage (without Berserker) than my HH80 Gold Spear".

    You first say it was wrong, make a lot of drama, and now you agree. Thanks for agreeing with my very first post.
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    You're using the wrong numbers, that Mad gave when he thought I was talking about another weapon and not JadeHeart.

    The numbers you are looking for and that Mad gave are:

    Firelotus: 3657-5115
    JadeHeart: 3649-4916


    Do you see everything now?

    Oh, yeah she's right.

    The thing was the difference in strength's of the weapons.
    Started with the base damage and she never specifies what weapon she was referring too. The berserk weap owns. b:kiss


    Do you see how your logic makes no sense now Lyndura?

    Are you finished yet? I'm about to go on lunch break.b:victory
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    That is the question I ask to you: Are you finished yet?

    I said that "too bad Firelotus barely has the same/a little higher base damage (without Berserker) than my HH80 Gold Spear".

    You first say it was wrong, make a lot of drama, and now you agree. Thanks for agreeing with my very first post.

    I am sorry you didn't specify what you were comparing too, if you were to make a reference on two weapons, say what they are. I don't know the difference between the polearm's, that is not in my area of interest. Your information was extremely biased and had little to no information with it for the longest time. All this drama you cause is the result of it, and bringing up all kinds of other random stuff that made no sense o.0
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I am sorry you didn't specify what you were comparing too, if you were to make a reference on two weapons, say what they are. I don't know the difference between the polearm's, that is not in my area of interest. Your information was extremely biased and had little to no information with it for the longest time. All this drama you cause is the result of it, and bringing up all kinds of other random stuff that made no sense o.0

    Who is the one who went in rage making all the drama?

    I make one post, and after many posts of useless/not useless information, I turn out to be right. Yeah.
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Who is the one who went in rage making all the drama?

    Not me, I was merely making a point ^^

    Are you feelings hurt, or upset in any way Lyndura? b:pleased

    This was kind of fun.


    You turned out to be right on the base weapon damage long ago, and that had been said already. We had moved on from that, are you trying to end this by covering everything else that had been stirred up?
  • Maddrox - Harshlands
    Maddrox - Harshlands Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Do you want this to end Lyndura, want it to be closed?

    End of discussion?

    I see Granley gave up, I probably should've long ago. It was merely moving from one thing to another, and here we are again. We'll never have the same logic regarding to the way the statistics work ingame.

    /lunch time
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Not me, I was merely making a point ^^

    Are you feelings hurt, or upset in any way Lyndura? b:pleased

    This was kind of fun.


    You turned out to be right on the base weapon damage long ago, and that had been said already. We had moved on from that, are you trying to end this by covering everything else that had been stirred up?

    Lyndura: The base damage of both weapons (without Berserker) is barely the same/a little higher (Firelotus).
    Maddrox: No!! you're wrong!!
    Lyndura: No, I have both weapons, I know what I'm talking about.
    Maddrox: Does math. This is what I found! they are not even close!
    Lyndura: You're using the wrong weapon, that is a Poleblade not Spear.
    Maddrox: The physical attack is different!!
    Lyndura: Do the math again.
    Maddrox: Ok, they are close now, but still you're wrong Firelotus is a MUCH better weapon it owns the Spear.
    Lyndura: I never said that the Spear was better, I just said that they barely have the same base damage without Berserker.
    Maddrox: No! you're wrong! base physical attack is just higher blah blah
    Lyndura: Damage is not equal to base physical attack
    Maddrox: rage post
    Lyndura: *Explains what damage is*
    Maddrox: rage post
    Lyndura: *Explains a little more*
    Maddrox: rage post
    Lyndura: I said (in my first post) that the base damage of both weapons without Berserker is barely the same.
    Maddrox: rage post
    Lyndura: You just proved the point of my very first post.
    Maddrox: Oh...yeah, you're right, they are barely the same and physical attack is not equal to damage...but everything else?
    Lyndura: All this was about it.
    Maddrox: Oh...
  • Granrey - Sanctuary
    Granrey - Sanctuary Posts: 2,050 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Do you want this to end Lyndura, want it to be closed?

    End of discussion?

    I see Granley gave up, I probably should've long ago. It was merely moving from one thing to another, and here we are again. We'll never have the same logic regarding to the way the statistics work ingame.

    /lunch time

    I'm still LOL about some stuff
  • Lyndura - Lost City
    Lyndura - Lost City Posts: 829 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    I'm still LOL about some stuff

    You didn't use your formula again with the real numbers to find the truth yourself ;o

    Off topic: Damn, 90 replies to this topic already.

    Anyways, going off now~