Cleric vs. Wizards

Calibix - Heavens Tear

Agree with kristoph. Most LA's about my gear/level have about 10% more pdef and I have 10% more mdef. Not a staggering difference by any means.

Kristoph - Lost City

The thing is, Earth Barrier means Arcane Wizards easily catch up to Archers, who lack their own pdef buff. Especially if they (archers) decide to use mdef ornaments.

Chocooo - Lost City

At 90, most arcane wizards have about 3.7k - 4.3k pdef self buffed.
Its nothing to scoff at.
But, the hp still needs work, but expect around 3.5k - 4k hp as a level 90 mage depending on how lucky you are with the sockets, and the refine level.
I'd say those stats are pretty average.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

i think amour has about 3.7k or 4.7k HP

Calibix - Heavens Tear

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i think amour has about 3.7k or 4.7k HP

Lol 1k is a big difference, which is it?

Kristoph - Lost City

Calibix - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol 1k is a big difference, which is it?

Less than 3.5k.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

I did some tests Saturday I think with a Robe Cleric, friend of mine.
Conclusion: mattk from cleric is no problem, pattk from cleric still hurts.

Each of us is a 2-3 shot for the other one. In a duel depends who cand seal/sleep the other. 1st shooter will win after.

He's lvl 73, I'm lvl 71. He has about 2.5k hp I think and I have 2.2.

We tried a few skill combos, tested ultimates, stuff like that. Didn't spent too much time on it, but here are some results:

Plume shot had me for 800-1000, he critted once for 1.7k. He critted when I was unbuffed, mdef ornaments , so that's pretty much the max. Razor feathers had me for +1.2k, so that's real dmg for a robe. A razor + plume = town teleport for me if that was a real PvP.

Sand Storm hit him pretty hard, around 1200 if I remember correctly. With the upgrade of SS at 71, add about 100 to that dmg. I actually realised I forgot to try SR ( like I've said, was just something we did ad-hoc and we didn't plan to get some relevant numbers out of it).

Now, I don't know exactly about his gear, but all my gear has at least 3 sockets, all of them at least one pdef option and 25hp on all of them ( except armor, that one has 4x26pdef shards). What was pretty obvious was the huge change in dmg using only a Protection necklace with about 200pdef in total. Amplified with SB, that brought the damage down from ~1000 to ~800 on Plume. Self buffed with the SB on i have 1.9k pdef. with that only the dmg was on low 900s. With cleric buff, the dmg went down to low 800s.

We didn't have a BM to buff me, but before the TW, full buffed, I had 2.8k HP and 3.8k Pdef. I would have been interesting to test the dmg then, but none of us though at that b:chuckle

My gear now is sharded for PvE ( HP shards ), because that's what I do most. For a better pvp survivability I would probably have to refine my gear to about +3 and shard it with +def , then alot will change. LA gear would pretty much change all that, but I wonder how much the dmg the wizz would lose. For the moment I'm not willing to trade the PvE dmg for PVP survival anyway.

Anyway, the conclusion we've both agreed: he still have an advantage because of pattk skills he can spam, but it's not a big one, and a slight change in my gear would make a big diff in closing that gap. This advantage pretty much dissapears when in TW. There who has the first shot wins, there's no question about it.


Pls don't start a flamewar here, I did this test because I wanted to see if all that cleric bashing of wizz is really true when talking about duels. And it was kind of "mith busted". Yeah, the cleric has a slight advantage in face-to-face duels/pvp against a Robe wizz at our lvl, bigger at lower lvls and no doubt smaller to none as the lvls get higher.
For me at least, this topic is closed.

Sheswes - Heavens Tear

Pirodar - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's what people write. Especially the guide on rebirth. According to it, squad with two archers is stronger than archer + wizard and the one with two wizards is doomed. I don't know how to interpret the numbers for archers in skill descriptions I can find on ecatomb, but it seems that equal level Barrage is stronger than DB. And most probably for a reason, so archers can pull agro form wizards and then loose it, when the mobs enter half damage zone around archers. That should cause mobs to go around.

But the most important, I think, is the fact, that DB does fire type damage and Barrage physical. And it's a huge difference. I don't want to get started on what I think about that game and class design. You can probably imagine . All I can tell from my own experience is that increased defence mobs are not even in one forth as problematic for archers as fire type mobs in fire wave of rebirth for wizards. My guess is that squad with two wizards would simply get eaten by fire wave. In rebirth the difference in resistance to particular element between mobs of that element and other is huge, way bigger than elsewhere.

it's one of the easiest wave <.< instead of zhen u just have to use Hailstorm, BID or MS... with BM and barb help it's a piece of cake
the real problem is next wave ... mobs with stun skill

Forp - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the biggest reason people want an archer over a wizard in gv is his armour choice. there's a LOT of monsters coming at you all at once, and a lot of them deal physical damage. archers can take on that physical a lot easier because of their light armour, so guess what kind of wizard they'd want? that's right, a light armoured one.

what a BS b:chuckle archer has more phys def than wizi?b:laugh stone barier ftw lol
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/936/deft.png
phys def with 2nd def aura.... arcane wizard w/o any phys shards

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I did some tests Saturday I think with a Robe Cleric, friend of mine.
Conclusion: mattk from cleric is no problem, pattk from cleric still hurts.

Lol. extreamly sad lie.

With Wizards that have earth barrier on around my level.

Plume shot hits for 1.4k and Razor hits for 1.9k
Weild hits around 1.6k last time I checked, not completely sure.

Sandstorm hits me for about 800 from a Pure INT wizard, I don't know how you hit 1.2k Ursa but anyway lie to yourself enough you'll believe it.

Note: Mire and Dimensional seal clerics can give wizards -60% phy defence.
Blade of supreme heat and elemental seal is -50% metal defence. Mini Undine.

This thread is WIZARDS VS CLERICS so stay on TOPIC

Guardian light, Ironheart and plume shell.

Answer to thread Cleric > wizard

Kristoph - Lost City

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Weild hits around 1.6k last time I checked, not completely sure.

Sandstorm hits me for about 800 from a Pure INT wizard, I don't know how you hit 1.2k Ursa but anyway lie to yourself enough you'll believe it.

Project a powerful wave of sand onto a target. Inflicts Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4288.4 and decreases enemy's accuracy by 50% for 10 seconds.

Cast a chain of lightning at the enemy, inflicting Metal damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4583.3.

Yet your Thunder magically deals DOUBLE the damage Sandstorm does? You're an idiot.

Sheswes - Heavens Tear

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol. extreamly sad lie.

With Wizards that have earth barrier on around my level.

Plume shot hits for 1.4k and Razor hits for 1.9k
Weild hits around 1.6k last time I checked, not completely sure.

Sandstorm hits me for about 800 from a Pure INT wizard, I don't know how you hit 1.2k Ursa but anyway lie to yourself enough you'll believe it.

Note: Mire and Dimensional seal clerics can give wizards -60% phy defence.
Blade of supreme heat and elemental seal is -50% metal defence. Mini Undine.

This thread is WIZARDS VS CLERICS so stay on TOPIC

Guardian light, Ironheart and plume shell.

Answer to thread Cleric > wizard

Me > you b:byeb:chuckle

prof

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol. extreamly sad lie.

With Wizards that have earth barrier on around my level.

Plume shot hits for 1.4k and Razor hits for 1.9k
Weild hits around 1.6k last time I checked, not completely sure.

Sandstorm hits me for about 800 from a Pure INT wizard, I don't know how you hit 1.2k Ursa but anyway lie to yourself enough you'll believe it.

Note: Mire and Dimensional seal clerics can give wizards -60% phy defence.
Blade of supreme heat and elemental seal is -50% metal defence. Mini Undine.

This thread is WIZARDS VS CLERICS so stay on TOPIC

Guardian light, Ironheart and plume shell.

Answer to thread Cleric > wizard

how did you get 80? :S

mage eats priest alive, end game or not. only time priest has a real advantage is when blasting point is still low level b:bye

Rinnve - Lost City

1 vs 1? Not impossible but VERY hard unless cleric is really lazy/rtarded and does not heal himself. Good luck 1shotting with BT 'cause it is the only chance to break through charm + stacked IH + wellspring. (LA clerics must be easier but i never fought with one yet).

prof

you don't let them heal lol. make them stop, force them to be offensive, scare them too much to heal themselves

in a practical situation:

blasting > gush > blink > blizzard > earth wave > soulingest powder > mountain press > gush > earth wave

blasting makes them useless for 5 seconds. gush slows them so when you blink they can't run to you. blizzard imobalizes them for a short time. earth wave ticks their hiero

souling sleeps them instantly. mountain press stuns them forever and a half. gush makes sure they hold still. earth wave again to bring their health low/dead, maybe another gush because con build priest has a lot of hp

it's not easy if you don't know how to be a mage, and most people don't. mage needs vigor out the ****, and is useless without it(so is every class except for ea).

Rinnve - Lost City

prof wrote: »

blasting > gush > blink > blizzard > earth wave > soulingest powder > mountain press > gush > earth wave

This is 85 wiz, or at least 79. Not exactly endgame, but quite highlevel (and rich, with both 79 skills).

Still, nice combo here. I never seriously thought about killing robe class not by physical ultimate 1-hit but by means of damage/controlling spells.

Bowlinbob - Lost City

prof wrote: »

how did you get 80? :S

mage eats priest alive, end game or not. only time priest has a real advantage is when blasting point is still low level b:bye

im sorry but mages arent even close to killing me at my lvl, erm the ones that ive faced anyways.. i 1 shot a 6x mage the other day with a double sparked plume shot...maybe he was full int tho.. only hit 1700 on him (not sure if it was a crit or not)

prof

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

This is 85 wiz, or at least 79. Not exactly endgame, but quite highlevel (and rich, with both 79 skills).

Still, nice combo here. I never seriously thought about killing robe class not by physical ultimate 1-hit but by means of damage/controlling spells.

when you get to a higher level, physical defense is usually pretty close to magic defense in terms of damage reduction. pyro tempest does a lot, but the stun from mountain press is too important. can't 1 hit a priest without hell fury + pyro tempest, and i'm a cheap mage, so no fury pots b:surrender

Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »

im sorry but mages arent even close to killing me at my lvl, erm the ones that ive faced anyways.. i 1 shot a 6x mage the other day with a double sparked plume shot...maybe he was full int tho.. only hit 1700 on him (not sure if it was a crit or not)

1700 1 hit something? :S they haven't spent a dime on their armour yet lol

Bowlinbob - Lost City

prof wrote: »

when you get to a higher level, physical defense is usually pretty close to magic defense in terms of damage reduction. pyro tempest does a lot, but the stun from mountain press is too important. can't 1 hit a priest without hell fury + pyro tempest, and i'm a cheap mage, so no fury pots b:surrender



1700 1 hit something? :S they haven't spent a dime on their armour yet lol

i guess not b:surrender i was very confused

Ursa - Dreamweaver

at your lvl it's normal.
Wizzies usually don't invest in good gear pre-70 and many of them pre-80 because they simply have no means of taking advantage of those stats on the gear.
With the skills at 80, just look at the Prof combo... that's one nice example of controlling a cleric. Never though of it that way, but like i've said many times before, high lvl wizzies played by skilled players are at least on par with every other class and arguably the biggest DD in the game.
With a wizz you're either in for the endgame or you better roll a veno.

Jrudora - Lost City

By far we can probably do the highest burst damage in the game...
Its pretty neat.
Clerics are strong now because of plume shot.
But eventually, plume shot won't be enough...

And that's when mages keep shining with all our spells

Treza - Lost City

what is with all the idiot clerics in wizard forum???? get in ur own forum dickheads!!

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

little wizzies are so adorable b:chuckle

Jrudora - Lost City

Treza - Lost City wrote: »

what is with all the idiot clerics in wizard forum???? get in ur own forum dickheads!!

Calm down...
Whats a wizard forum if only wizards are giving their opinions.
Its better for us if we're given the opinions of other classes as well, see it from their perspective too y'know?

Don't be so thickheaded.

prof

i agree that others should definity share their opinions, as theirs are usually horror stories of being brutually pwnd by a mage . though, what i see showing up is these priest that believe killing a level 50 mage with no gear what-so-ever as proof that they're a superior class.

i haven't lost to a priest since i was level 74. solo pk, team pk, and tw alike.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Project a powerful wave of sand onto a target. Inflicts Earth damage equal to base magic attack plus 300% of weapon damage plus 4288.4 and decreases enemy's accuracy by 50% for 10 seconds.

Cast a chain of lightning at the enemy, inflicting Metal damage equal to base magic damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4583.3.

Yet your Thunder magically deals DOUBLE the damage Sandstorm does? You're an idiot.

Blade of supreme heat + Elemental seal.
I don't know if Demon weild would stack but if it did, -80% metal defence 4 wizzys.

It's too easy for clerics, Sleep, chuck the debuffs and kill.

Wizards you rely on the 3 seconds from FoW, and that pathetic 4 second sleep.

Guardian Light, that is 60% less magic and physical damage taken for 10 seconds, instant cast. Sleep + FoW is only 7 seconds.

that leaves you 7 seconds to kill a cleric before the cleric, Chromatic seal > Stack IB > Elemental/Dimensional Seal > Blade of supreme heat/Tangling Mire (-20% metal defence / -30% physical defence)> Demon spark > Razor/Weild > spam.


Think of it like this.

Sophiric whisper - instant cast - 4 second sleep
Undine - 1.5 seconds leaving 2.5 seconds left on the sleep.
That leaves time for 1 attack.
FoW - 5 second seal with 2 second cast to thats in reality 3 seconds to do anything.
Sutra - Instant
Sandstorm > Divine pyrogram.

Then that's it, No more Silence or sleep.

That opens the clerics chain of attacks, Sleep, Spark, Debuffs, Purify etc.

Any to be honest with lag, instant cast don't really excist.

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »

By far we can probably do the highest burst damage in the game...
Its pretty neat.
Clerics are strong now because of plume shot.
But eventually, plume shot won't be enough...

And that's when mages keep shining with all our spells

Level 40 wizard: A clerics plume shot eventually won't own us
Level 90 Wizard: A clerics plume shot eventually won't own us

My friend, I'm afraid with Entangling mire and Dimesional seal... Plume Shot > Wizards for life.


In terms of dps it can very well be cleric if the wizard does not have spirits gift, since I know this as a fact, and comparing a cleric to a wizard without cleric buffs in not acceptable I won't bring it up, girls.

prof

unless you have dark/holy plume quill, it doesn't hurt at all lol. and even then, only holy plume hurts and it spikes to 1.4k on me

not enough to kill, even with all these new fancy genie skills(though i can't be positive, i'm yet to use them)

Adroit - Lost City

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Blade of supreme heat + Elemental seal.
I don't know if Demon weild would stack but if it did, -80% metal defence 4 wizzys.

It's too easy for clerics, Sleep, chuck the debuffs and kill.

Wizards you rely on the 3 seconds from FoW, and that pathetic 4 second sleep.

Guardian Light, that is 60% less magic and physical damage taken for 10 seconds, instant cast. Sleep + FoW is only 7 seconds.

that leaves you 7 seconds to kill a cleric before the cleric, Chromatic seal > Stack IB > Elemental/Dimensional Seal > Blade of supreme heat/Tangling Mire (-20% metal defence / -30% physical defence)> Demon spark > Razor/Weild > spam.


Think of it like this.

Sophiric whisper - instant cast - 4 second sleep
Undine - 1.5 seconds leaving 2.5 seconds left on the sleep.
That leaves time for 1 attack.
FoW - 5 second seal with 2 second cast to thats in reality 3 seconds to do anything.
Sutra - Instant
Sandstorm > Divine pyrogram.

Then that's it, No more Silence or sleep.

That opens the clerics chain of attacks, Sleep, Spark, Debuffs, Purify etc.

Any to be honest with lag, instant cast don't really excist.

8x and still a noob b:laugh

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear

Well when you think with stone barrier, if the cleric uses the genie 'entangling mire' and dimensional seal

The stone barrier is basically a vanguard, not as effective.

prof

if you think about it, you might hurt your pretty little head. go pewpew some plants in the priest forum