Rei's kinda-ok guide for Heavy/Robe Fox.

Aniella - Harshlands

lol havy venos are good:O i saw one..lvl 71 that solo hole fb51 without heling...she kiled all 3 bosses

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Aniella - Harshlands wrote: »

lol havy venos are good:O i saw one..lvl 71 that solo hole fb51 without heling...she kiled all 3 bosses

That's really awesome. I actually managed to tank wyvern in foxform at lvl 69 being LA. I have NO clue how i did it, but i did. Needless to say, it wouldve been alot easier if I was a HA veno at the time.

crut7

I have a question about Summer Sprint (92)
Sage version removes negative effects.
Demon version gives immunity to movement impairing effects
(that's from ecatomb)

Does that mean Sage version also removes movement impairing effects?

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

It would if you could use it I assume (cant during sleep and stun obviously). Should work during freeze and slow though.

Could be wrong. (I'm demon)

Hazon - Sanctuary

I wish to know too on the sage summer sprint, can any sage veno let us know how it works?

And also how u guys in HA defends a pure magic caster, I am almost always got one shotted in tw cos I wore HA and AA for my boots n wrist. I'm just curious esp those veteran HA veno lol.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

@ Hazon, since your a HA/AA veno on sanc server, mind if we can contact in game? I'd like to look at your gear for reference if you don't mind, ^.^

Hazon - Sanctuary

Sure

Add me, Hazon in your friendlist if I'm online

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Well im usually always online lol. I'll pm you oneday

Shifong - Heavens Tear

Hazon - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wish to know too on the sage summer sprint, can any sage veno let us know how it works?

And also how u guys in HA defends a pure magic caster, I am almost always got one shotted in tw cos I wore HA and AA for my boots n wrist. I'm just curious esp those veteran HA veno lol.

sage summer sprint is basically a purify skill that works on anything aslong you can use skills. In theory it should even work on stun and sleep, but since you can't use skills then it won't work on those....

As for defending yourself against magic. First of all, it totally depends who nukes you. A level 100 wizard with a +10 weapon will kill even robes in 1 or 2 shots. I can get 1 shotted by some people. But those that do, have amazing gear and are listed on the "who cashshopped the most" poll. Get higher in level and it might not be so bad.

Ways to make you stronger against magic... Make sure that your cleric keeps you buffed if you got one in your tw squad. HP buff can make a difference between a one shot or not, so also keep barb buffs up if a barb is in your squad.

Use magic def charms. Cooldown is only 1 second and can lower the magic damage by a lot. And you can use other remedies like stone turtle orb that lowers all damage by 50% or the magic remedy that increases your magic resistance.

Wear mdef ornaments if you don't have yet, and try to get over 4 to 5k mdef at 90+ and near 6k at 99.

My 99 build will have over 5.8k mdef and 5.4k pdef with arcane boots and sleeves. And i don't go overboard with refines and shards since i'm oh so poor b:surrender

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

I've started a heavy/arcane veno on Raging Tide. Up to level 19, it was easy to find the stat points for equipment, but I struggled at 20 to find enough for the Perfect Officer's Magic Sword plus a diminished req chest plate I'd made.

YamamoriYuki - Raging Tide, Level 20:
(Base stats, no EQ add ons)
Vit: 5
Str: 41
Magic: 57
Dex: 12
Hit Points: 516

(With heavy armor EQ add ons)

Vit: 8
Str: 46
Magic: 60
Dex: 12
Hit Points: 632

(With arcane armor EQ add ons)

Vit: 9
Str: 46
Magic: 59
Dex: 12
Hit Points: 644

Heavy armor:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=27f88972c20f0d36

Arcane armor (have to downgrade to the trial pataka due to no +mag on the arcane set yet):
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=0fc3ceac0cbb163a

Solandri - Heavens Tear

crut7 wrote: »

I have a question about Summer Sprint (92)
Sage version removes negative effects.
Demon version gives immunity to movement impairing effects
(that's from ecatomb)

Does that mean Sage version also removes movement impairing effects?

As Shifong explained, the Sage version will remove movement impairing effects if you're able to actually use the skill. So you can remove slows and freezes, but not stuns (don't think you can remove seals either).

If you're trying to decide which version is better, Demon or Sage, the Sage version is almost certainly better. One of the veno 79 skills (Feral Concentration) gives you damage immunity for 10 sec, but freezes you. To avoid the freeze, you want Fortify on your genie.

Level 1 Fortify gives you immunity to stun effects for 5 sec (6 sec with 30 genie dex). So it pretty much duplicates the effect of Demon Summer Sprint. The only catch is that it has a chance (95% at level 1) to reduce your mdef. But when I tested it on my char, it resulted in 65% of my base mdef, so the debuff is not too onerous.

Other movement debuffs like slow can be removed with the Sage version, so Sage Summer Sprint + Foritfy pretty much duplicates the effect of Demon Summer Sprint.

avataras

Hi all. what should I use stats 2str 2magic 1dex or???

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

You need 5 str 1 dex 6 mag every 2 levels to make this work. Since you don't get that many stats, you have to scrounge around for +stat and -req gear, or short either your mag (needed for weapon and arcane armor) or str (needed for heavy armor) so every HA/AA veno's build will be different. Did you even read the first post all the way through?

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

I wouldn't mind to see some more banter/debate on the pros and cons of Demon/Sage for HA Fox Venos.

I've been looking at each, and still can't seem to make up my mind on which way to go. One day I'm convinced I want to go Sage, and the next I switch to Demon.

Up till now I have pretty much followed this guide to a tee. And now that I'm in my 80's, I seem to be at a crossroads I can't seem to decide which way to go. Maybe after listening to some serious back and forth on this subject, I'll be better able to finally make up my mind.

b:sad

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I wouldn't mind to see some more banter/debate on the pros and cons of Demon/Sage for HA Fox Venos.

I've been looking at each, and still can't seem to make up my mind on which way to go. One day I'm convinced I want to go Sage, and the next I switch to Demon.

Up till now I have pretty much followed this guide to a tee. And now that I'm in my 80's, I seem to be at a crossroads I can't seem to decide which way to go. Maybe after listening to some serious back and forth on this subject, I'll be better able to finally make up my mind.

b:sad

This may sound corny, but what I would do (and what I did) is go to ecatomb, look at all the skills, sage and demon, write them down, and tally up how many out of sage you like, and how many out of demon you like best. I tallied up each skill except for Blazing scarab and frost scarab. (2 skills which i will never max) It turns out I liked more of the demon skills than the sage skills.

What I would miss from sage however is Master Li's Technigue. But this lost chi can easily be gained back through Cloud Eruption (genie skill) or demon crush vigor.

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

This may sound corny, but what I would do (and what I did) is go to ecatomb, look at all the skills, sage and demon, write them down, and tally up how many out of sage you like, and how many out of demon you like best. I tallied up each skill except for Blazing scarab and frost scarab. (2 skills which i will never max) It turns out I liked more of the demon skills than the sage skills.

What I would miss from sage however is Master Li's Technigue. But this lost chi can easily be gained back through Cloud Eruption (genie skill) or demon crush vigor.

Yeah I've already sort of done the whole ecatomb thing and it's because of that I can't make up my mind actually, lol. Each time I look into it, I seem to reverse my thinking from the previous trip there.

One thing I do seriously need to do, is look into my genie skills. I've trained up some skills that seemed good for TW, but never really use them much. Or even at all to be perfectly honest.

I seem to switch back and forth as I grind between human form and fox, just out of boredom if nothing else. My Nix does 90% of my fighting unless I'm in a hurry to kill stuff. I figured on doing alot of TW and some PK later in levels. And deciding on Sage or Demon will obviously be crucial in my future plans.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah I've already sort of done the whole ecatomb thing and it's because of that I can't make up my mind actually, lol. Each time I look into it, I seem to reverse my thinking from the previous trip there.

One thing I do seriously need to do, is look into my genie skills. I've trained up some skills that seemed good for TW, but never really use them much. Or even at all to be perfectly honest.

I seem to switch back and forth as I grind between human form and fox, just out of boredom if nothing else. My Nix does 90% of my fighting unless I'm in a hurry to kill stuff. I figured on doing alot of TW and some PK later in levels. But now that work has me working Every Sunday night, and every other Saturday night, my TW hopes have been sort of dashed. I love being a HA Veno, and built this toon to TW with. But /sigh not too sure how much opportunity I'll have to do so with my present situation.

About TWing, I think HT, still has a pretty colorful map, so you may still have a chance to do that. However on sanc, I have no chance, But TW isnt really something that interests me. I switch from human to fox alot too grinding (and Im LA atm, hate it >.<) Aoe grinding with my herc can be suicidial to me atm. I can drag aggro from my herc when i aoe. I jump into foxform, and kill a mob or 2 off, while ofc spamming genie skills, befuddling mist, and leech. Mobs hit me for 250 each in foxform, but I'm pretty sure they would hit 100-150 less on me, if i was HA atm.
I could actually restatt to HA right now if i wanted to, but at 6 lvls away from TT90, it doesnt seem worth it to me, since ill be 90 in like a month or 2.

Another thing that made me want to go demon is that some of the skills have faster cooldowns. (especially Metabolic boost and Natures grace.) I would trade 60% recovery in the sage version for a faster cooldown anyday.

Normally, and in sage version, both these skills have a 300 second cooldown (That's 5 minutes) Demon version reduces cooldown by 90, 300-90=210 seconds. 210 seconds/60 = 3 1/2 minutes. This allows Us to have faster mana recovery.

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

The Sage Fox Form to me is real appealing, the added bonuses seems really great. I can see some use for the Demon Fox Form. Alot of people call this the veno I'm going to run away now skill. But I myself look at it as I'm going to chase your **** down now, and kill you skill.

I just wish one seemed to be mainly Fox Form skills, and the other being Human Form, and it would all be much easier for me. The lesser cool down for the health and mana regen skills would be handy.

I got smoke coming out of my ears now, from brain activity overload thinking about all this, lol.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The Sage Fox Form to me is real appealing, the added bonuses seems really great. I can see some use for the Demon Fox Form. Alot of people call this the veno I'm going to run away now skill. But I myself look at it as I'm going to chase your **** down now, and kill you skill.

I just wish one seemed to be mainly Fox Form skills, and the other being Human Form, and it would all be much easier for me. The lesser cool down for the health and mana regen skills would be handy.

I got smoke coming out of my ears now, from brain activity overload thinking about all this, lol.

Yes sage foxform is very appealing, but demon foxform, while it is a running away skill. it doesnt have to be. It can just be used to travel faster without having to waste genie chi on Holy path. Also if you have demon fox, you can forget holy path, if you wish, and replace the skill with something that would be more useful to you, say like cloud eruption. Also I think the majority of the attacks in foxform are better in the demon version.

*Edit* Ugh why is my avatar saying Im lvl 83. It lies -.-

Shifong - Heavens Tear

Instead of looking at the convenient skills like nature grace (just pop an mp potion) you should question yourself. What is your playstyle and in which area do you play, pve, pvp or tw? and which side, demon or sage will aid me the best in that area.
Also take in mind that you have genie skills and remedies with the same or even better effect as some veno skills.
Example is demon summer sprint. It gives you 6 seconds immunity to immobility effects like seal and stun. Vacuity powders however does the exact same thing, but gives you 20 seconds of immunity.

Both sides have skills that are really great which makes deciding very difficult.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

YamamoriYuki - Raging Tide, Level 32:
(Base stats, no EQ add ons)
Vit: 5
Str: 59
Magic: 94
Dex: 17
Hit Points: 804

(With heavy armor EQ add ons)

Vit: 6
Str: 70
Magic: 99
Dex: 17
Hit Points: 981

(With arcane armor EQ add ons)

Vit: 8
Str: 62
Magic: 105
Dex: 17
Hit Points: 1115

Heavy armor

Arcane armor

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Shifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Instead of looking at the convenient skills like nature grace (just pop an mp potion) you should question yourself. What is your playstyle and in which area do you play, pve, pvp or tw? and which side, demon or sage will aid me the best in that area.
Also take in mind that you have genie skills and remedies with the same or even better effect as some veno skills.
Example is demon summer sprint. It gives you 6 seconds immunity to immobility effects like seal and stun. Vacuity powders however does the exact same thing, but gives you 20 seconds of immunity.

Both sides have skills that are really great which makes deciding very difficult.

Which is why I've been having such a hard time deciding. I am however leaning now towards Demon. I'm almost 85 now, and have a few more levels to go, before I make it final. But I do have hopes of someday getting back into the TW scene again maybe. Which was my entire reason with going this build in the first place. It's like who makes a HA Fox Veno to PVE with anyways? lol

It's been a fun ride, and I do indeed love the build. But TW and PK is where the fun is end game. And I'm thinking demon would most likely be best for me to go now after some serious thought.

I wouldn't mind seeing some other HA venos pop in here and give their thoughts on how they like being a sage or demon, before I make the final plunge here soon. Just to help verify my own personal thoughts on each. Always keeping an open mind for alternative thoughts, and points of view. Too much advice can never be a bad thing. As long as it's good advice, lol.

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Reikara - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's not the ideal farming build. There's some bosses I cannot do without another venomancer's assistance, yet it's a boss an arcane veno can do easy.

I guess the whole reason for doing this build in the first place needs to be addressed by the person considering it. I play the game for fun. I'm having a blast playing as this HA Veno. I have done just fine in past TW (Back when being in your 80s was actually a decent level to TW as) lol

Left the game for a while and now back, and having fun again. Not TW anymore, but not really interested in farming zones and/or bosses either. I do see the problem of finding more gear past the gear I currently got, but so far making due, with all the suggestions made in the OP. ( I followed this guide almost to a tee, including gear suggested)

What will I do once I'm around level 100? Who knows? But for now, I'm loving being different, and I seem to do just fine in the things I set out to do.

Kittennice - Heavens Tear

Hiya. Maybe I can be of some assistance. My play-style may vary, but we are similar nonetheless. I went demon and yes, it was kindof easy to choose because I picked my fave color >.>... I knew the fairy would turn purple when I got to my final stage so ya. But besides that, there were other factors that lead me to demon. Bramble is my fave and I use it regularly. If you are going to tank things and melee like crazy an extra reflect boost can help. Ironwood scarab has a chance to decrease your enemies' def to 0. It's quite lovely when you get'emb:cute. I noticed my magic damage increased when I went to demon and I'm able to do 8k with barehand. So for you, the magic will increase with a nice magic weap.b:surrenderI haz a very sad mag point. Anyways... demon summer sprint allows you not only to run from danger, but to also aid friends. If a team mate is in trouble, you can go right to their aid. It is true holy path and other apoth can do this, but would you really have the time to stash thousands and thousands of those apoths and use up genie stamina? It makes it more simple to just get the skill. Like stated before, you can always change holy path to a new thing you need your genie to have. Now if you add that with demon foxform, that adds extra speed. Need a boss to be occupied for a while while the cleric is rezzing others? Push foxform and make that boss run in circles after you.

But it still comes down to your choice. Hope that's a help.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

I initially chose sage over demon for the consistent debuff from ironwood, and the extra phys def in fox form. I dont regret my decision at all, but looking back my reasons where a little mis-informed.

foxform - the speed boost from demon is really nice, especially in rebirth, a demon fox can farm the valley in 1/2 the time a sage can, if they constantly switch back and forth, though i doubt anyone will constantly do this the whole time. that being said, every time i've done RB im always done with the quests by the time the squad is farming the third chest spot, sometimes before. the extra phys def from sage fox isnt that spectacular, though if your unbuffed, at my level demon fox would recieve 10% more damage from pysical hits than i do, in the same gear, which is not a whole lot, all things considered. The accuracy boost from sage however, is like wearing a misty if you were demon in fox, i did not consider the accuracy when i made the choice.

Melee mastery = sage kills it here, especially if you can manage to wear a might ring in fox, the extra 50% weapon damage over demon gives you a much higher DPS than the extra 3% crit (in fox only) that demon will give you.

this is countered by

demon's fox wallop, which i really wish i had now. 20% chance to get 5 or 6 melee crits in a row (depending on your weapon)all hits crit for 5 seconds, is b:dirty, sage fox wallop blows, it actually lowers your chance to reduce channeling from lvl 10, and while it grants more damage, you can probably do more damage with regular melee hits, and 50% chance not to lose 20 chi? big deal. if your a demon fox get this as soon as you can, if your sage, dont waste your money.

as far as ironwood goes for solo PvE sage will give you much higher DPS no question, mobs dont have very high pdef anyway, so the differences you see, while they will be noticeable if demon procs, wont be huge. In groups it doesnt really make a difference, because with the barbs using devour and the clerics using seal, everyone is going to be overwriting everyone else's phys def debuff anyway, and demon's will 1- not know if they debuffed, or 2- get mad when their debuff hits and get overwritten.

venomous, the wood debuff is great on sages, and will give you a pretty constant damage increase, compared with sage which will allow you to generate chi much faster, i'm nearly permasparked in COA

Nova - if you can find it, this one seems pretty hard to come by, demon wins hands down, as it give a 30% amp to all the mobs it makes chaotic, consume 1 spark for sage is just convenient.

amp damage come out pretty much the same, with sage having a slight edge.

the 2 skills that are amazing on sage, to which demon doesn't even come close are soul degeneration and purge
20% off max HP for soul degen is better on bosses than archers sharpened tooth arrow, and the same as sage archers sharpened tooth, and you can probably count the number of sage archers you've seen on 1 hand. on armageddon in 3-3 using sage soul degen at the beginning of the fight will knock out 2,000,000 hp. Demon soul degen reduces targets evasion, big deal.

Sage purge makes purge AOE, while the aoe is not very useful in PvE, in PVP its amazing, especially in tw, where you can debuff a group of people with 1 shot, very effective, while demon purge is just 25 second cool down instead of 30. considering how much defense, attack, and HP buffs add 90+ debuffing your opponents make them much easier to take down, and debuffing a group gives your group a significant edge.

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

It would make things ALOT easier if they just made Sage be for (casters) for instance, and Demon for (Fox) then it would be clear cut what route to go. Now after reading these last 2 posts it's got me thinking about Sage again, lol.

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It would make things ALOT easier if they just made Sage be for (casters) for instance, and Demon for (Fox) then it would be clear cut what route to go. Now after reading these last 2 posts it's got me thinking about Sage again, lol.

I guess you just gotta choose a path that fits the best of both worlds. lol

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

I guess you just gotta choose a path that fits the best of both worlds. lol

For once something I can agree with 110%!! lol

My trouble is I over analyze things. I'm sure each path would be fine. But I also know I frequently look back at decisions made in hindsight and wonder if the correct path was taken.

You seem pretty cool HopToIt, too bad your on the wrong server. b:thanks

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »

For once something I can agree with 110%!! lol

My trouble is I over analyze things. I'm sure each path would be fine. But I also know I frequently look back at decisions made in hindsight and wonder if the correct path was taken.

You seem pretty cool HopToIt, too bad your on the wrong server. b:thanks

Yea, I do the same thing. I ask alot of questions until Im completely sure I want to do something.

And thanks, lol. I kinda wish I was on HT, though. Seems most of the cool venos are on HT. Sanc has alot of fail. lol. And it's not a carebear server. Ive been considering coming to HT, but I don't wanna have to reroll, and get a herc again lmao. b:surrender Where's my server transfer stone?

Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear

Ms_HopToIt - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yea, I do the same thing. I ask alot of questions until Im completely sure I want to do something.

And thanks, lol. I kinda wish I was on HT, though. Seems most of the cool venos are on HT. Sanc has alot of fail. lol. And it's not a carebear server. Ive been considering coming to HT, but I don't wanna have to reroll, and get a herc again lmao. b:surrender Where's my server transfer stone?

Well I started asking a couple levels ago, and with a little luck, I'll finally have myself talked into one way or the other by 89, lol.