Pandora's PVP Wizard Guide

ZhenMuch - Lost City

thanks pandora by far this was one of the most in depth and helpful guides to me...

jus rolled my wiz today and even though im going LA for now then restatting i might say i like it quite a bit

xxibatistaxx

i need a reset note bad i wanna go pure but i messed my wizzy up and im lvl 57 b:sadb:cry

Nurfed - Harshlands

Amour - Lost City wrote: »

Lowbie is the time to be LA...
this guide is still perfectly viable. It's a different build, and if built correctly under 96, is not bad.

^
10charssssssss

CrimsonCrime - Sanctuary

A very in depth guide good work

TurismoX - Lost City

So, is LA Wizard a viable choice or not?

Because I'm kinda levelling one up right now. ._.

BambooHugger - Lost City

TurismoX - Lost City wrote: »

So, is LA Wizard a viable choice or not?

Because I'm kinda levelling one up right now. ._.

Nope. It's a gross build. Why build a class designed to avoid damage to take it?
=_=

BeingHope - Raging Tide

Wow I love this guide b:cute

Have to say, its by far, one of the most enjoyable guides to read b:laugh

Definitely useful, +1! b:victory

cjpower

Pure INT rules. LA Build is a waste of power.

Seffar - Heavens Tear

I would just like to plainly state that Demon is the only path for a Wizard to take. Damage is immense, demonized skills give better extra attributes. Yes I understand you wizards going sage and bragging "Sage Black Ice Dragon Strike is going to own in PvP though!" How often do you honestly get to use that skill while in TW or PvP? Like I said - you choose sage to get one skill or do you choose Demon and become the beast of a Wizard you thought you would be become when you rolled this class. Take my word for it as a 95 Arcane or don't - I still am proud to be wooping sage wizard **** around the clock. Don't agree with me.? - Come duel me in Heavens Tear. Point Made.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Seffar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would just like to plainly state that Demon is the only path for a Wizard to take. Damage is immense, demonized skills give better extra attributes. Yes I understand you wizards going sage and bragging "Sage Black Ice Dragon Strike is going to own in PvP though!" How often do you honestly get to use that skill while in TW or PvP? Like I said - you choose sage to get one skill or do you choose Demon and become the beast of a Wizard you thought you would be become when you rolled this class. Take my word for it as a 95 Arcane or don't - I still am proud to be wooping sage wizard **** around the clock. Don't agree with me.? - Come duel me in Heavens Tear. Point Made.

+mastery
+chi

Impetus - Lost City

Seffar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would just like to plainly state that Demon is the only path for a Wizard to take. Damage is immense, demonized skills give better extra attributes. Yes I understand you wizards going sage and bragging "Sage Black Ice Dragon Strike is going to own in PvP though!" How often do you honestly get to use that skill while in TW or PvP? Like I said - you choose sage to get one skill or do you choose Demon and become the beast of a Wizard you thought you would be become when you rolled this class. Take my word for it as a 95 Arcane or don't - I still am proud to be wooping sage wizard **** around the clock. Don't agree with me.? - Come duel me in Heavens Tear. Point Made.

lol duels

10char

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Seffar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would just like to plainly state that Demon is the only path for a Wizard to take. Damage is immense, demonized skills give better extra attributes. Yes I understand you wizards going sage and bragging "Sage Black Ice Dragon Strike is going to own in PvP though!" How often do you honestly get to use that skill while in TW or PvP? Like I said - you choose sage to get one skill or do you choose Demon and become the beast of a Wizard you thought you would be become when you rolled this class. Take my word for it as a 95 Arcane or don't - I still am proud to be wooping sage wizard **** around the clock. Don't agree with me.? - Come duel me in Heavens Tear. Point Made.

congrats, u got to 95 and still don't understand this class.

just FYI, here is a Sage BIDS efect:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2407/sagebids.png . Not mine, stolen from a friend b:chuckle (b:kiss SurferGirl)

now, how many times can u launch this? I can't tell you since the last TWs I've been in all lasted about 10 minutes and every time I launched about 3 of them but you being such a smart cookie do the math of how many times you can use this skill in a serious 3h TW when u have 1.5 or 2 spark pots, sutra pots, etc.

You're just throwing words as flame bait. Learn more about wizards than come back. I'm willing to discuss sage vs demon with anyone, as long as we can have a dialog. I played both, endgame builds. Go do the same and then you have knowledge to go in such a debate. Right not it looks like you're trying to put a man on the moon using your origami experience.

Seffar - Heavens Tear

LOL @ the "Oh you get more chi as a sage!" How about I have genie Cloud Eruption that basically gives me auto 2 spark? Hm? I really want to see a Sage or LA wizard beat me in duel. Duel because of Heavens Tear being a PVE server but still - This whole controversy will never end because people look at the damage and sagebids as Ursa did. Why don't you go ahead and show demons output damage? Oh I know why - because it's higher then that of a sage. Normal skills that are needed for damage are increased - the masteries put a little emphasis but not much compared to evening out of skill damage with certain powerful skills. Take a look at the demon/sage skill trees for Wizards then comment at me again.

Mrbungle - Lost City

...and sage wizards cant get cloud eruption?
...or cant take an other usefull skill instead?

Bloop - Harshlands

Srsly who cares? It's based on your play style.

Exitium - Dreamweaver

Its weird how I used to love this guide when i started out but now disagree with a lot of points brought by Pandora. Although I cant really relate, her being on a pvp server and in the pre-pack era...

Adroit - Lost City

@Seffar




















































































































n00b

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Seffar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

LOL @ the "Oh you get more chi as a sage!" How about I have genie Cloud Eruption that basically gives me auto 2 spark? Hm? I really want to see a Sage or LA wizard beat me in duel. Duel because of Heavens Tear being a PVE server but still - This whole controversy will never end because people look at the damage and sagebids as Ursa did. Why don't you go ahead and show demons output damage? Oh I know why - because it's higher then that of a sage. Normal skills that are needed for damage are increased - the masteries put a little emphasis but not much compared to evening out of skill damage with certain powerful skills. Take a look at the demon/sage skill trees for Wizards then comment at me again.

you just don't have a clue, don't you?

brownflamer

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm willing to discuss sage vs demon with anyone, as long as we can have a dialog. I played both, endgame builds.

0.0

I want to discuss it with you lolz

Which one do you think is better....demon/sage ?

and why? b:victory

Exitium - Dreamweaver

Ive been looking for a demon wizzy to tell me what he loves/hates about demon... All I can find is holy wizzies saying it sucks :X

brownflamer

Exitium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ive been looking for a demon wizzy to tell me what he loves/hates about demon... All I can find is holy wizzies saying it sucks :X

I feel ya bro...all ppl used to give me is a f@ckin list of skills...demon/sage

Ursa - Dreamweaver

First, just to clear things up from beginning , I'm sage, and this is just one person's opinion, not a bible, not a post to rule them all. Read it, take what you consider useful, USE YOUR BRAIN TO take the decision about culti. I will try to give as much info as possible from my point of view.

well, demon vs sage is a never ending discussion. Why? because both paths are equally powerful when played on their strengths. If one of the paths would have been way better than the other, ppl would have found all the hidden benefits so far. But the argument is strong and it's , like I've said, a proof of how balanced these cultivations are for wizard.

Before I chose my cultivation I spoke with a lot of endgame wizards, both sage and demons. Take whatever is told with a grain of salt, and make your own decision. Every wizard should do the same thing, don't let other ppl take decisions for you. I've been in Seraphim's guild for about 9 months, I spoke a lot with him about wizards, I learned everything I know about wizards from him. If you read his guide he's quite biased when it comes to cultivation options, and with some good arguments, but I went Sage.
Back then (In august 2009 I think) I chose my cultivation based on a few things:
- I wanted first of all to be a nuker in TW - chi build skills and BIDS were the most important here.
- I wanted to have an easy life in PvE ( 20% Mana regen, 25% less damage from Sage spark was just perfect)
- I loved the decreased channel on Stone Rain and the Cooldown bonus on WoTP. WoTP is quite a spam-able skill with awesome dmg. Gush/pyro/gush/wotp is probably the biggest DPS a sage wizard can have in this game.
What skills I love on Sage:
- Pyro Chi gain (20% chances to gain 45 chi)
- SR lower channel
- WoTP lower cooldown
- Ultimates
- materies adding 5% more dmg.
- master li technique (50 chi every minute)
- distance shrink costing 10 chi.


I chose to be a sage wizard and I was and I am really happy with my choice, because it servers the above purposes perfectly. I'm not a big PvPer, and honestly, if you are one, there are at least 2 other classes out there that are better suited for it (endgame archer -with fists- and Sin and also a BM played with skill. BMs don't be upset, I give the upper hand to Sins for stealth and archers for both range and melle fist dmg.) so rolling a wizard just for 1v1 PvP purpose I say is a gamble. Low native survivability and control skills means u have to be a very skilled player endgame to play well a wizard. Wanna take that expensive gamble and see how it ends?LE : with the Jones blessing (30% attk lvl) wizards got back on 1st place in PvP

Now, demon wizards - as I played one on a private server ( sure, there is a difference, but I played it to learn the mechanics, strengths and weaknesses compared to sage) - are pretty nice too.
What I like on demon:
- Lower channel on pyro
- 20% Stun on SR
- 50% freeze on Hailstorm
- added dmg on SS and gush
- 33% chance of freeze on Pitfall
- range on MS - 35m- basically you can stun an archer at his max range (unless he has a x-bow with +range add.

If you compare this list with the one for sage, you can pretty much see what the difference is , no need to be a rocket scientist. Demon has more target control and HP restore from spark, Sage has more survival and potentially a bigger DPH coming from masteries (5% is important when your weapon is +10 or above) combined with a bigger chance for crits on Nukes.

PvP is easier with a Demon wizard giving the control skills available, but if you learn to play around the sage strengths in a 1v1 you can be as deadly as a demon.

As you can very well see, I left out one of the most impressive features of the Demon cultivation: Stone barrier add of 150% pdef from gear. It sound awesome, at it really is, for the most part. People usually forget about the sage version giving 120% pdef also, and how rare and hard to obtain these skills are.
Now, having demon barrier at 89 can be incredibly awesome, but later on, at endgame, the advantage is reduced by the laws of diminishing returns. Self buffed the diff between the Sage SB and Demon SB on phys dmg reduction will go from a 4-5% at 89-90 to 1 , maximum 2% at 100. When full buffs come into place, especially if they are lvl 11, the advantage of that 150% vs 120% is almost null.
Take this build for example:
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=265e53abafcc67d8 (my curent build - well except a few refines for HP)
set the BM pdef buff to sage/demon, and then play with Demon/Sage Stone barrier. The pdef reduction is only 1%. no matter how you swap them around.
Now, this is with some 95 gear only. Take nirvana, with bigger bonuses, shard with garnets for higher base pdef and the advantage of a demon stone barrier becomes null.
This is the reason why I don't consider Demon SB a game changing skill. It's nice at 90, but it makes no real diff at 100.

One other skill that demons are bragging about is the 30m vs 25m on distance shrink. I have to give it to demons, this is a nice, very nice skill. But it was more important when genies were not ingame. Now how much diff it makes if you DS 25 or 30m? If you flee, after that DS comes Holy Path so you're in the woods anyway. It has some advantages in some "at the limit" situations, but you're going to be in those kind of situations so rarely that it's really not a factor worth considering.

Well, these are my opinions ... feel free to discuss.

brownflamer

Are fist archers really better than fist BM? b:surrender

and are sins better than both of those? b:shocked

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Demon has more target control and HP restore from spark

what u mean under that? i think not spark burst but still i dont got it b:surrender

Ursa - Dreamweaver

uhm, yeah, mixing that spark bonus with the one on archer.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

ursa u should come pk with me often


to say wiz is just a gamble on pvp is not true u have no idea how many times im asking the top bms/archers/clerics/barbs (not sins cuz i hate playinh hide and seek. and not venos cuz when im uncharmed their bramblehood is a *****) on our server to 1v1 when im uncharmed to try and seduce them to actuly fight me and most of them always return me ''no thanks it doesnt matter ur uncharmed u will just 1 shot me anyway'' wiz is an awesome pvp char with force of will on ur side with sleep with MS stun even tho its long chan u can almost always pull it off if u know what ur doing and when its lvl 11 its either 1 shot who ever i hit. or i at least tick them and leave them for 6 sec harmless while i kill the remaining of the hp eventho when i fight archers or bms all i really need to do is undine force of will / sleep BID + frenzy = 7-11ks non crits and also most of the time i crit for like minimum 15k i also 1v1 with swordman alot i manged to kill him 2 and on 1 of the 1v1 i actully 1 shoted him (best bm on dreamwaver for thos that dont know)

Adroit - Lost City

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

ursa u should come pk with me often


to say wiz is just a gamble on pvp is not true u have no idea how many times im asking the top bms/archers/clerics/barbs (not sins cuz i hate playinh hide and seek. and not venos cuz when im uncharmed their bramblehood is a *****) on our server to 1v1 when im uncharmed to try and seduce them to actuly fight me and most of them always return me ''no thanks it doesnt matter ur uncharmed u will just 1 shot me anyway'' wiz is an awesome pvp char with force of will on ur side with sleep with MS stun even tho its long chan u can almost always pull it off if u know what ur doing and when its lvl 11 its either 1 shot who ever i hit. or i at least tick them and leave them for 6 sec harmless while i kill the remaining of the hp eventho when i fight archers or bms all i really need to do is undine force of will / sleep BID + frenzy = 7-11ks non crits and also most of the time i crit for like minimum 15k i also 1v1 with swordman alot i manged to kill him 2 and on 1 of the 1v1 i actully 1 shoted him (best bm on dreamwaver for thos that dont know)

*cough* epic run-on sentence *cough*
I dunno if you are exaggerating or what, but I don't have that experience at all. BM's take a LOT of abuse before going down.. if I'm fighting a decent BM, my best chance to kill them is to get them to just above 50% and crit with BIDS. Obviously the first few times it won't work.. abs domain/TE/etc all basically cancel out BIDS. Having them at roughly 50-60% then undine put on an attack charm -> poison -> -> frenzy -> no channel pot -> sage BIDS -> pray for a crit is the only reliable way I've found to kill a skilled barb/bm with good gear. Using sleep instead of a no channel pot really doesn't work anymore because of genie skills, and the barb's/bm's I fought before I stopped playing were starting to use defense charms.. which just adds to the challenge.

Now this could be partly because I only have 5k hp unbuffed (6.5k pdef self buffed).. so I really can't take much abuse (I'm forced to kite anytime they get near, so I can't really beat through their charm). I think my damage is fine.. I'm using a +10 CV wand with nearly all my sage skills (just missing d.pyro and dragons breath). Maybe LC just has more cash shoppers or something, but when I drop a sage MS in spec TW, it RARELY kills anybody (and for my normal targets.. usually doesn't even get close to ticking them.. can't say for the rest that got hit by the aoe). TBH, I only crit with sage bids for over 15k when my target is either a lowbie or a someone using LA/HA without mdef ornaments (or lowly refined ones)

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

*cough* epic run-on sentence *cough*
I dunno if you are exaggerating or what, but I don't have that experience at all. BM's take a LOT of abuse before going down.. if I'm fighting a decent BM, my best chance to kill them is to get them to just above 50% and crit with BIDS. Obviously the first few times it won't work.. abs domain/TE/etc all basically cancel out BIDS. Having them at roughly 50-60% then undine put on an attack charm -> poison -> -> frenzy -> no channel pot -> sage BIDS -> pray for a crit is the only reliable way I've found to kill a skilled barb/bm with good gear. Using sleep instead of a no channel pot really doesn't work anymore because of genie skills, and the barb's/bm's I fought before I stopped playing were starting to use defense charms.. which just adds to the challenge.

Now this could be partly because I only have 5k hp unbuffed (6.5k pdef self buffed).. so I really can't take much abuse (I'm forced to kite anytime they get near, so I can't really beat through their charm). I think my damage is fine.. I'm using a +10 CV wand with nearly all my sage skills (just missing d.pyro and dragons breath). Maybe LC just has more cash shoppers or something, but when I drop a sage MS in spec TW, it RARELY kills anybody (and for my normal targets.. usually doesn't even get close to ticking them.. can't say for the rest that got hit by the aoe). TBH, I only crit with sage bids for over 15k when my target is either a lowbie or a someone using LA/HA without mdef ornaments (or lowly refined ones)

xD sorry for the 1 big long sentence lol im kidna use to post this way.

anyway i dont exaggerate tbh since when i posted this msg i killed 3 bms while i was uncharmed without even getting hit once once u got ur tactics all set BMs are SO cute lol

take this guy for exmple deathdeal a 100 bm i killed like 5 min ago he knows how i fight we go way back so i wanted till his anti stun is off i seal him undine him sleep him MS him

before i did the MS he used that True Emptiness spell

so i just did 3k but thats no biggy cuz i just wanted the stun really. so as soon as i stuned him i use cloud eruoption for chi sutra up and got his hp to 0 before stun wear off. and by making ihm use True epmtienss i ate all of his genie energy(TE take all of the energy per use but need just 2 energy to cast)

i think im the most active wiz pker on dream waver so ye i got experience and trust me once u get ur head down to faw tactics and u mater it its really easy cuz to improvise during battle is hard its enough that 1 genie spell ruin ur hit and ur left without chi to kill but ye u can always try to get them down to 55% hp and bid but keep in mind they can spam True epmtiness BUT its only 15 met range

so if u got chi ready for bid the bm is on 60% hp or so and dont have TE on just undine him

sleep him distance shrink away ur already 25 met away TE wont affect and its a 1 shot (ofc there is always domain but its like 3 min cd so once they use it once they wont be able to use it often)


P.s this is 1 long post

Adroit - Lost City

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

xD sorry for the 1 big long sentence lol im kidna use to post this way.

anyway i dont exaggerate tbh since when i posted this msg i killed 3 bms while i was uncharmed without even getting hit once once u got ur tactics all set BMs are SO cute lol

take this guy for exmple deathdeal a 100 bm i killed like 5 min ago he knows how i fight we go way back so i wanted till his anti stun is off i seal him undine him sleep him MS him

before i did the MS he used that True Emptiness spell

so i just did 3k but thats no biggy cuz i just wanted the stun really. so as soon as i stuned him i use cloud eruoption for chi sutra up and got his hp to 0 before stun wear off. and by making ihm use True epmtienss i ate all of his genie energy(TE take all of the energy per use but need just 2 energy to cast)

i think im the most active wiz pker on dream waver so ye i got experience and trust me once u get ur head down to faw tactics and u mater it its really easy cuz to improvise during battle is hard its enough that 1 genie spell ruin ur hit and ur left without chi to kill but ye u can always try to get them down to 55% hp and bid but keep in mind they can spam True epmtiness BUT its only 15 met range

so if u got chi ready for bid the bm is on 60% hp or so and dont have TE on just undine him

sleep him distance shrink away ur already 25 met away TE wont affect and its a 1 shot (ofc there is always domain but its like 3 min cd so once they use it once they wont be able to use it often)


P.s this is 1 long post

Uhmmm, I don't even think it's possible to hit somebody for 3k when they have the TE shield on. I've come to the conclusion that either.. you do a sh1tload more damage than I do, or the BM's on your server don't have any survivability. I can't kill a good BM with just sutra, most of them just live through it and use a pot or something.

SurferGirl - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Uhmmm, I don't even think it's possible to hit somebody for 3k when they have the TE shield on. I've come to the conclusion that either.. you do a sh1tload more damage than I do, or the BM's on your server don't have any survivability. I can't kill a good BM with just sutra, most of them just live through it and use a pot or something.

I[/COLOR] have massive dmg 1 of the best if not the best on dream waver so far best hit i did was 50k crit on a bm without HF or amp all by myself