so whats this age old BS about baning WF's for fb29/gouf?

Vixenish - Heavens Tear

i think she did. she said somethign about using her flying pet rather then im guessing the normal pet she usual uses... i didnt htink anythign of it at the time.

krystar

One problem with reporting the zehn glitch, without even knowing what it is, I think is that EVERYONE had to do Gouf at a relatively low level. So everyone had the possibility of being exposed to, at least in topical conversation, the Veno/Gouf issue. Not everyone zehns, mostly vets from other versions and those who have learned it from vets from other versions. And zehning, if I remember from what I heard, occurs mostly after level 60, thus reducing all the players who might quit before then since quests drop off before that.

But, like I said, if it is bug abuse, by all means, find them, take screenies if possible, and alert the staff about it (perferably while they are doing it). Don't bother getting into an in-game debate with someone doing it because then they might stop before "the game police" arrive, thus making it harder to prove. Just quietly observe, document, and report.

Nice to know that not only is this game outrageously expensive to level in ON A PVP SERVER that is, but now we have to worry about Big Brother watching us just because they don't like the way some MIGHT play the game.

mrkrom

Ok, let me get this straight, everyone is kicking up a fuss about a bug/glitch/whatever that allows us to continue with our culti q's etc blah blah blah. I don't need to go into it, i'm sure you've all read everything upto now. BUT only 1, maybe 2 complaints (not including my own) about the archer in zhen parties? Is it because players see a veno air petting gouf etc n get in a huff coz they cant do it themselves, but when it comes to zhen all benefit from archer gltiching with fat exp? I guess players see the gouf glitch as an "unfair advantage" as only venos can do such a thing, but the archer glitch as acceptable because they will benefit from it? Anyway i'm going on abit, not really making a point. Umm.... oh yeah, i've read a few times (all stated by thom) that "it has clearly been stated by gm's that it is a glitch and a bannable offence." Where? I havn't seen a gm say this once, and no i'm not going to scour the forums or ToS for it, because like most other PW players i can't be arsed, i mean come on how many ppl actually read ToS? most just skip past it, accepting it even if it says you'll sell your soul away, because you don't read it. Also i'm interested to see the only gm's post on this thread was directed at vixen about contesting said decision, but no word on the glitches/bugs being bannable? I've had enough of E-Police going on about it, especially sheriff thom (nothing personal mate, but you do repeat yourself alot and come off as an arrogant gm lover) LETS SEE WHAT THE GMS HAVE TO SAY!!! come on, it can't be that hard or time consuming to type up a reply explaining things clearly for all of us to see. E-Police, before you say what you're gonna say, STFUKKTHNXBAI!!!

Vixenish - Heavens Tear

if im banned for a day the bug/glitch is obviously bannable.. and i wasnt even the cause it was due to a player having out a flying pet that wasnt even tanking... and i cant get it appealed because i was standing on the boss melleing to save mana to throw off heals when needed and try to help out my squad members with dps...

but yea. a bunch of poeple are getting 1 day banns for Gour. there has to be a GM visable above him. cuz after i got banned another group also got banned. (friend was talking to another friend who said her friend also was banned for a day due to the same thing)

i think its Bs that i cant play cuz of another player having out a pet i have no control over it. and the stupid pet wasnt tanking. the tank was taking damage.

the least the GM could do was ask if i knew about the glitch in the first place. or a half day ban. i didnt even know about it. or were he was for that matter.


and for the other glitch i think im too low lvl or that one.

swiftlikeafox

Vixenish - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if im banned for a day the bug/glitch is obviously bannable.. and i wasnt even the cause it was due to a player having out a flying pet that wasnt even tanking... and i cant get it appealed because i was standing on the boss melleing to save mana to throw off heals when needed and try to help out my squad members with dps...

but yea. a bunch of poeple are getting 1 day banns for Gour. there has to be a GM visable above him. cuz after i got banned another group also got banned. (friend was talking to another friend who said her friend also was banned for a day due to the same thing)

i think its Bs that i cant play cuz of another player having out a pet i have no control over it. and the stupid pet wasnt tanking. the tank was taking damage.

the least the GM could do was ask if i knew about the glitch in the first place. or a half day ban. i didnt even know about it. or were he was for that matter.


and for the other glitch i think im too low lvl or that one.

See, that's exactly the kind of thing i'm talking about, they didn't even wait for anyone to bug the boss, they banned you because they THOUGHT you MIGHT try to bug the boss, GMs must possess some mysterious psychic ability that we mere mortals can only dream of comprehending!b:shocked .......and appearently the GMs DO NOT always warn before banning, I'm sure the GMs would probably rather not waste their time with such nonsense and are doing what they think is right..... but somewhere along the lines the apple has fell far away from the tree...... so I'll tell you guys how you can make your jobs MUCH easier...... Either get your bosses to whine to the devs until they FIX the stupid bug, or just do away with such rediculous rules!

Vixenish - Heavens Tear

the veno did try to send her pet before we were all ready.. but it got owned.. so... all i know is i was running away >< but at that time i still had no clue of the glitch... all i saw was a pet and i ran lol.


if hes that much of a issue. make a small instance and put him in there... or a cave or underwater were flyign pets cant be o.0 or make it so flying pets cant hit him at all. sadly i know the coding for osemthign like that isnt easy but its better then having to have a GM there 24/7 watching people.

oh and it will fix the wrongful banning of people. like me who have spent 140$ on this game in the last few weeks >< im sure thats a couple peoples paycheck for a day

mrkrom

I didn't mean anything against you vixen, i just mentioned you coz you were the only one that gm's replied to o.o But yaw, that does suck that what happened happened, from what i see you were going to use a legit tactic, not intended "bugging" or "glitching" or w/e, but the gm's saw a veno summon a pet, bam! insta ban. Seems a lil..... **** to me, don't you think the same, GM's? not that any of you will reply of course, i might get a warning pm about making such comments and probably have this post edited by a gm/admin, BUT i bet i won't get a legit reply to this post or an official word on the bugs and banning etc. I know you've been banned vixen, not calling you a liar or anything, i'd just like to see the gm's official word on this in this thread, or a huge announcement that everyone on the friggin server will see, like a mass post to all players so we can all go to the postbox and read it ourselves. Putting buggable bosses in an instance is a good idea, would stop this whole thing, and as it's only 3 bosses i'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to make an instance with a room for each.

Vixenish - Heavens Tear

10-24-2008, 08:56 PM
gattsuru
Moderator Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,183

---

If you wish to discuss a ban, please do so here. The Perfect World forums are not the place for this. The terms of service are clear on the matter: the use of an exploit, bug, error, or design flaw is unacceptable. PWE is not required to specify each of these, and I think it's a rather cruel insult to your friend's intelligence to claim he or she could not identify this as unintended behavior.

On the matter of bugs : if you'd like to report one so PWE is aware of it, do so here, not the boards.




found on a closed threat. maybe this is what you were looking for? maybe?

mrkrom

Yeah that'll do, thanks vixen, sucks the thread is closed though xD

PWE is not required to specify each of these: No, you're not, that's true, but it would be nice if you DID gm's ^.^

Anyway i'm satisfied now so i'm gonna leave this topic alone, and probably won't intentionally use a glitch/bug again as i have had a morality check after reading this thread, but don't worry people, i will not join the E-Police! there's enough of them as it is ^.^

Venoblood - Heavens Tear

turtlewax wrote: »

To begin, they aren't actions.
A bug is behaviour of a program that is not according to how it was designed to behave. A glitch is a random, freak occurrence of unintended behaviour and is usually difficult to reproduce. A bug is usually a reproducible occurrence of unintended behaviour. A glitch could be seen as a bug, but they are definitely not the same thing.

By your definition, the Venomancer glitch would rather be a bug.

Anywho, a glitch is as easily reproducible as a bug is. Everyone here should have played enough games to know that. Whether or not you define them as two separate "game errors" (since you obviously don't like the term actions...) is your decision.

turtlewax

The word glitch is usually used for randomly occurring failures and random implies it's not particularly reproducible. The bugs that you call 'glitch' are otherwise also called 'quirk', another cute word. It doesn't really matter either way.

I've paid attention today while harvesting crafting resources; when a melee mob aggros on my veno, I have her fly up and while her pet fly does it's guard duty, the melee mobs stops attacking and just stands there taking hits from the pet. There is a reproducible procedure as well, fly over the mob, hit it with a spell to get it's aggro, then send a flying pet - which you have to set on 'guard' or 'manual' mode.

Vixenish - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and jsut to make sure im correct. its not because we were all flying? it was because of the veno having out a flying pet?

No, in my opinion and from what you tell us, the gm was at fault, not the veno, or you. Perhaps it was because the GM being overly zealous watching out for for this (rather insignificant) problem, or he really did not understood how it works. If he or she had done his job properly he or she should have seen the boss fighting and dealing damage. The fact that it did do damage simply rules out the possibility that anyone was exploiting this bug.

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear

I find it slightly amusing that the admin carefully avoided to comment on the archer using the bug/glitch in zhen/aoe parties tho... Concern that was posted on this same thread....

Kyou - Heavens Tear

Blancheneige - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I find it slightly amusing that the admin carefully avoided to comment on the archer using the bug/glitch in zhen/aoe parties tho... Concern that was posted on this same thread....

It's called "$" Blanche b:surrender

thom

Here to conclude and maybe end the speculations without any real info:

GM's enforce and ban for any bug abusing. If you havent seen it or heard about it, doesnt mean they dont do it.

You dont know everything what they do.

Report those archers then if you want something to happen instead of complaining here.Report every bug exploiter you see. If you dont, quit complaining then. Be part of a solution,not problem.

Debating what term it should be called is useless. GM's have stated what it is.
Our opinion doesnt matter in that.

This isnt just aboug veno's bugging gouf, its one of the bugs. There's also couple other bosses where veno is used to bug them, also archer bug goes to same category and i believe is bannable,though if nobody reports it,how you think GM's can act upon it?

This thread is just a good example to show community that even the smallest bugs and their abusing and exploiting will be dealt with. Dont use bugs.

There is unfair advantage gained from Gouf, no matter how some people think there is not.
The new skills you get from that cultivation quest are very much needed to progress in game.
you forget that lots of people cant do this when they get it and also forgetting that you dont even have to kill it at lvl40 or something when you get it.

Yes, Veno's are getting advantage over the 5 other classes who just cant bug and solo it.

That quest can wait until lvl49 when its actually useful to do.

Gouf isnt that hard to kill, take a tank and two clerics and make those clerics spam Ironheart on the tank. If you are even an average-skilled player, that does it easy without any need for bug abusing.

If you have a good tank and cleric, thats all you need. They can kill it even just the two of them.
lvl49 is a good lvl to try killing Gouf,before that you dont need it.

We have great GM's on this game who are making sure people play fair in all aspects of the game.

tinkus

What kills me is that this specifically has been known to exist since before closed beta even began. It's been brought up repeatedly and I don't think anyone affiliated with the game has ever expressly addressed why it's allowed to exist. Yes, they've known for far too long it happens and yet they continually ban people for it. I say either fix it so it doesn't happen any more or don't ban people who use it.

This is a very old game, and I feel the actions of the staff are inappropriate to their customers. If the game doesn't work as intended, either take steps to fix it or count the glitch as a loss.

turtlewax

thom wrote: »

... GM's have stated what it is. ...

And we can find that info where? I haven't seen a single official post describing clearly what 'it' is.

This isnt just aboug veno's bugging gouf, its one of the bugs.

And those would be described where?

There is unfair advantage gained from Gouf, no matter how some people think there is not.

There's a far larger advantage to be gained from the aforementioned zen/aoe bug, but you don't hear much about it, including from you. That one would be too much to your own advantage I suppose?

We have great GM's ...

I've heard something else in this thread, apparently the GM's don't exactly know how to recognize this bug. Bugs that apparently have been known for years are never fixed. In stead we have to deal with vague and shifting boundaries of what is considered acceptable.

If it's a bug, it should be fixed. If it's never fixed it is apparently not a bug.

senovit

turtlewax wrote: »

If it's a bug, it should be fixed. If it's never fixed it is apparently not a bug.

Or devs are lazy. Hi auction house, hi forest ruins, hi horse race.

doctortorsche

2 points :

1) PWInternational is not developed by the GMs, it is developed somewhere in Asia. If the hosts aren't passing along the bug reports, there's not a damned thing you can do about it.

2) Those who'd gladly report a veno just because they can solo much easier should actually TRY playing the class. Comparing the 3 classes I've tried (veno,archer, and fighter) it's clear that while the venomancer is more "uber" than the other classes, they get stuck with their "starter skills" for much longer than other classes. Glitching or not, there's no reason to report someone just because your class gets pwnt by theirs, it's plain stupid - and quite arrogant too.

dtz

turtlewax wrote: »

If it's a bug, it should be fixed. If it's never fixed it is apparently not a bug.

You clearly have no concept of how game design works.

Vapidia - Sanctuary

dtz wrote: »

You clearly have no concept of how game design works.

You've apparently never been fed the bull**** line "That's not a bug, that's an undocumented feature" . . .

dtz

Vapidia - Sanctuary wrote: »

You've apparently never been fed the bull**** line "That's not a bug, that's an undocumented feature" . . .

Apart from the fact that I'm well aware it's a BS line 90% of the time, PWE has never said that about this particular issue. They've been quite clear that it's a bug, and an exploit, and you will be banned if you do it. Given how obvious of an exploit it is to tank a boss in such a way that the boss is mechanically incapable of damaging the tank, why do people persist in arguing that it's OK?

Kyou - Heavens Tear

This is all just wrong.

swiftlikeafox

dtz wrote: »

Given how obvious of an exploit it is to tank a boss in such a way that the boss is mechanically incapable of damaging the tank, why do people persist in arguing that it's OK?

Why do people persist in arguing that it's OK???? Because if I understand the nature of this bug correctly it is EASILY accidently reproducable and falls within the normal mehchanics of the venomancer class....... this ISN'T like the old "dupe" bug from Diablo where you had to drop an item 400 times, walk around in circles and jump while at the same time trying to pick the item back up......NOONE could argue THAT as a normal game feature..... but when ALL a bug requires is for a monster to be lured to a doorway, or to be attacked by a flying pet.... then you CAN'T exactly call that EXPLOITING, when a player acting within the NORMAL game mechanics and simply using the NORMAL abilities of their class manages to trip a bug then it's up to the devs to fix it or let it go! What if they were to tell archers that they could no longer use bows because the melee monsters cannot reach them fast enough to fight back?!?!? It's purely REDICULOUS!

turtlewax

dtz wrote: »

You clearly have no concept of how game design works.

Said by someone who's only just old enough to play a computer game.

dtz wrote: »

...They've been quite clear that it's a bug, and an exploit, and you will be banned if you do it. Given how obvious of an exploit it is to tank a boss in such a way that the boss is mechanically incapable of damaging the tank, why do people persist in arguing that it's OK?

Apparently they haven't described it clear enough for their own gm's to understand it or how to recognize when it's exploited; the cleric said the tank was taking damage from the boss... that can not happen with this exploit, as not taking damage from an inactive monster is the only thing that makes this exploit an exploit. If they can't tell when there's a bug exploited then how can we, and more importantly, how are we supposed to know what they consider something exploiting a bug?

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

@turtlewax insulting somone doesnt make you right.

Anyways this thread needs a bunch of flaming so it can get a lock, everythin has been said that possibly could.
The reality is that nothing will change and poeple will forever be envious and hatefull towards anyone that can do something they cant or that has something they dont, or will have some misguided sense of right/wrong and always try to change the world to fit their ideals.

turtlewax

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@turtlewax insulting somone doesnt make you right.

I was repaying the favor, read all next time, thanks.

Vixenish - Heavens Tear

can someone maybe tell me how i can get my GOUR quest done (after im unbanned) and NOT get banned again? just not have a veno or have them put all of there pets away?

kinda scared to finish the quest due to a posable nother ban

turtlewax

Invite the GM to your squad

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear

turtlewax, what u did was fall for flambait. Responding to a flame is no different that starting one.

Vixen, you'd need a barbarian to tank it on the ground. Or a veno with a lvl 60+ golem to tank it.

Vixenish - Heavens Tear

the barbarian was tanking it when i did it the first time nad got baned...