Multi-Clienting Temporarily Disabled - Discussion

greenfire312

armoftheland33 wrote: »

I think that's debatable. I'm not really in favor of circulating conspiracy theories, but I would bet there ARE reasons why a company would want to trim their customer base. Another very well known company was sued for shutting down servers "too early" for several games just a few years ago. So I could imagine a circumstance in which the game was failing to make ends meet and the publisher was required to hit a certain number or requirement or negative before they were permitted to flip the switch. And you can't tell me this is not a possibility for PWI or something that isn't assessed when other games are being taken down by PWE.

Lets see
-server merges
-huge increase in enforcement against purchased and/or shared accounts (to ensure new/returning players spend $)
-increases in $ price for large ticket items to the tune of 33%
-promotions that encourage spending of real life $, but also increase in cost for those promotions (encourages big spending or none)
-extreme cut backs or removal of promotions for products that don't generate profits (spend rewards)
-bans for farming free sources of $ such as zen quests offered through arc
-bans for multiclienting and enforcement against excess accounts which if left could make f2p farming barely manageable
-indirect influences on the game economy that forces customers to spend real life $
such as:
-cash shop currencies unobtainable through in game means forcing customers to spend $ if they want items
-items worth large amounts of in game currency purchasable only through real life $
-removal or extreme nerfing of all in-game currency sources such as mob drops, DQ, BH, quest rewards etc.
-removal of sources of f2p profit such as unbound items, farmable items, quest rewards etc.
-removal of in-game sources for progression items (forcing players to buy with $ instead of playing the game)


At this point I simply cannot imagine how any of these decisions (and certainly not added all together) were made with the intention of investing in or growing a FREE TO PLAY game or even maintaining it. The changes have turned all but the most invested or hardest cashers away. Soon well be left with like 6 Neuma Portal characters arguing from safe zone, and Joe.

Again, this is an assumption with literally no substance and its my own opinion only. But with the lack of information we are provided, my imagination is free to run wild.​​

You're not the only one in that regard, but in my case I imagine more... stupid reasons for all of this. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Hanlon's Razor, but it's essentially the short-form answer to your "evidence" here.

The basic question is "can all this be explained by stupidity on PWE's part?" And the answer undoubtedly is yes. This isn't the first time (even going beyond the last couple years) that F2P players have been squeezed and limited over PWI's life. It was stupid then, and it continues to be stupid now - just on a much bigger scale than usual.

There was a time when I thought PWE was going to dump PWI, too, but that was years ago - when they'd first unveiled the "Arc" name, and I assumed it was some sort of move to split off from the parent company in Beijing. Didn't turn out that way. PWE is still owned by its parent company, and as long as the CN version is still making money (which, apparently, it is... quite a lot of it), the game will still receive updates. Haven't you ever wondered why we still get expansions to a game with such a dwindling player base stateside? It's because we aren't the only ones subsidizing it. So that affords PWI a unique layer of protection against the kind of "trimming in preparation for dumping" scenario you describe.

Additionally, that lawsuit you mention, what was the outcome of it? I'd very much like to see the rationale for why a company couldn't pull the plug on any game whenever they damn well please.

den28nl

So all this forced cash shopping combined with the latest mandatory arc use and the crackdown on multi clienting which should have been enforced from the start and not suddenly do it now after a years of quietly ignoring it.
But pwe, instead of getting more money. You now will get nothing from me anymore

tek1nig

mistressani wrote: »

What's even more peeving is here we are compling a list of bugs and issues which gets longer by the day yet the main red flag issue hasn't been resolved, if we're waiting so long to see an issue labelled as an "emergency" to be handled, one has to wonder how long minor issues would take to be solved ,meanwhile the player base is decilinging as time goes by without even a proper statement.

Maybe players would be a little more understanding and more willingly to stick around if a little time be taken to provide some offical information.

Loggically speaking anyone would want to know why their state/country was thrown into a state of emergency in real life and be more accepting of the proceedures taken likewise same goes for PWI, also while we're waiting for the matter to be handled by the company we too could take steps on our end to help protect ourselves as much as we can. But unless the true gravity of the situation is conveyed to us we're just left in the dark.This isn't a very nice feeling.

A dismal February for PWI indeed. I haven't seen so many people quit in such droves since they merged Harshlands USA into Morai EU.​​

jsxshadow

tek1nig wrote: »

mistressani wrote: »

What's even more peeving is here we are compling a list of bugs and issues which gets longer by the day yet the main red flag issue hasn't been resolved, if we're waiting so long to see an issue labelled as an "emergency" to be handled, one has to wonder how long minor issues would take to be solved ,meanwhile the player base is decilinging as time goes by without even a proper statement.

Maybe players would be a little more understanding and more willingly to stick around if a little time be taken to provide some offical information.

Loggically speaking anyone would want to know why their state/country was thrown into a state of emergency in real life and be more accepting of the proceedures taken likewise same goes for PWI, also while we're waiting for the matter to be handled by the company we too could take steps on our end to help protect ourselves as much as we can. But unless the true gravity of the situation is conveyed to us we're just left in the dark.This isn't a very nice feeling.

A dismal February for PWI indeed. I haven't seen so many people quit in such droves since they merged Harshlands USA into Morai EU.​​

Really? I hardly notice a difference during the times I am online with the exception of less cat-shops in Archo ofc.

sleeper1#0704

well after a year of playing.. i think i can finally quit this madness. i will stop logging now. i think i will feel better just like i did for 2 weeks of non logging.

btw guys good news to cs'er
force log button - star5 , client login w/0 arc - star6 , entering archo - star 1 , priority login - star 2 ., unlimited client- star 3.

lol ofc this is fake news. .. .
i feel so unmotivated and so negative playing pwi. i already have problems just getting my g16 and now this stuff happens.
i dont think i will be coming back. the feeling of light-hearted ness is too good to pass up...

armoftheland33

greenfire312 wrote: »

You're not the only one in that regard, but in my case I imagine more... stupid reasons for all of this. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Hanlon's Razor, but it's essentially the short-form answer to your "evidence" here.

The basic question is "can all this be explained by stupidity on PWE's part?" And the answer undoubtedly is yes. This isn't the first time (even going beyond the last couple years) that F2P players have been squeezed and limited over PWI's life. It was stupid then, and it continues to be stupid now - just on a much bigger scale than usual.

There was a time when I thought PWE was going to dump PWI, too, but that was years ago - when they'd first unveiled the "Arc" name, and I assumed it was some sort of move to split off from the parent company in Beijing. Didn't turn out that way. PWE is still owned by its parent company, and as long as the CN version is still making money (which, apparently, it is... quite a lot of it), the game will still receive updates. Haven't you ever wondered why we still get expansions to a game with such a dwindling player base stateside? It's because we aren't the only ones subsidizing it. So that affords PWI a unique layer of protection against the kind of "trimming in preparation for dumping" scenario you describe.

Additionally, that lawsuit you mention, what was the outcome of it? I'd very much like to see the rationale for why a company couldn't pull the plug on any game whenever they damn well please.

Yeah stupidity has something to do with it. I'm inclined to believe it's somewhere in between. I dont doubt there is somewhat of a buffer from China there, but there comes a point when sustaining something stops making sense. There has got to be some reason 6 digital pictures were declared worth 11k usd vs 7k.

It's possible they made these changes with a goal in mind to be sustainable, but were either too stupid or so out of options that essentially cutting off the f2p crowd was the only way forward. How can you coerce your customers to give you money when they can get the same thing elsewhere for free? Unfortunately cutting off the f2p crowd is essentially cutting off the lifeblood of the game. And when you lock progression behind a paywall so huge that only 10 people will buy into it, eventually the game is left with only 10 paying customers.

The lawsuit was Bassett v EA, you can look it up. It was dismissed but details were not divulged to the public either. From that example, can a customer have a successful trial vs a games company for shutting down their online servers too early? Probably not. But can that example make you want to minimize your chances of loss through legal fees? With customers who can on a whim spend 11k on digital pictures, there's no doubt in my mind.

jsxshadow

sleeper1#0704 wrote: »

well after a year of playing.. i think i can finally quit this madness. i will stop logging now. i think i will feel better just like i did for 2 weeks of non logging.

btw guys good news to cs'er
force log button - star5 , client login w/0 arc - star6 , entering archo - star 1 , priority login - star 2 ., unlimited client- star 3.

lol ofc this is fake news. .. .
i feel so unmotivated and so negative playing pwi. i already have problems just getting my g16 and now this stuff happens.
i dont think i will be coming back. the feeling of light-hearted ness is too good to pass up...

That's totally ok and I commend you for finally realizing that for yourself. PWI is odd and weird and the only reason why I am still playing is because I already got so much...progressing in any other game is way more effort than progressing in PWI...yeah, that's basically it. Friends too, ofc, but if you don't have either of that then gtfo asap for your own sake!

catgirldesu

@heero200 Sorry for the bother, but could you please send me a pm?
​​

greenfire312

armoftheland33 wrote: »

The lawsuit was Bassett v EA, you can look it up. It was dismissed but details were not divulged to the public either. From that example, can a customer have a successful trial vs a games company for shutting down their online servers too early? Probably not. But can that example make you want to minimize your chances of loss through legal fees? With customers who can on a whim spend 11k on digital pictures, there's no doubt in my mind.

Yeeeah, if they were gonna pull the plug already, they're not gonna suddenly get cold feet on it just on the risk that some rando gets personally offended and sues. Pretty sure they're losing more money on all this stuff they're doing right now than they would on the legal fees of a case that gets thrown out, anyway.

armoftheland33 wrote: »

Yeah stupidity has something to do with it. I'm inclined to believe it's somewhere in between. I dont doubt there is somewhat of a buffer from China there, but there comes a point when sustaining something stops making sense. There has got to be some reason 6 digital pictures were declared worth 11k usd vs 7k.

It's possible they made these changes with a goal in mind to be sustainable, but were either too stupid or so out of options that essentially cutting off the f2p crowd was the only way forward. How can you coerce your customers to give you money when they can get the same thing elsewhere for free? Unfortunately cutting off the f2p crowd is essentially cutting off the lifeblood of the game. And when you lock progression behind a paywall so huge that only 10 people will buy into it, eventually the game is left with only 10 paying customers.

Well, at this point there aren't a lot of ways forward in terms of gear and content. PWE made a horrendously stupid decision years ago by releasing Rank 9 to the cash shop - that's the kind of move you make when you aren't planning on keeping your game for more than another year or two. But since PWI continued in spite of that, they basically power-creeped themselves into a corner. So now the devs have to think up new content that keeps people interested without dumping even more power creep on a system that's already filled beyond capacity.

Does any of that require **** over F2P players? Not really. So I can see the shred of logic behind the "malice" angle, but I'd still bet ten to one on stupidity.

Call this a pie-in-the-sky fantasy if you like, but I've thought for years now that they need to make a new server without the power creep. No R9 in CS, no +10 orbs in CS, no instant 100 pills, heavily nerf several non-CS gear sets, and then smooth out the difficulty curve between modern and classic instances to compensate... just for starters. Obviously you can't nerf or remove R9 from the current servers without triggering The QQ Heard Round The World, but a new server would ensure that you don't lose anything because you don't start with anything to lose. Then after a certain period of time when people reach endgame again, you could offer one-time server transfer options for people to move their current characters over - with the caveat that any gears/etc that are unobtainable on the new server would be deleted, so people could make a choice: keep the gear they paid for, or play on an actually balanced server.

If PWE has any interest in long-term stability (and they should, because they've still got a gem of a game buried under all this trash), this is probably their best option IMO.

heerohex#3018

catgirldesu wrote: »

@heero200 Sorry for the bother, but could you please send me a pm?
​​

Done.

Thanks

jsxshadow

@greenfire312 Easy fix. They just need to release an Arena (preferably X-Server) in Which anyone has equalized gear and PvP til they drop. They can also revamp some useless items to be used in there to trade for charms and such...that would save this game. People can still gear up as they wanna compete for TW, xTW and arena. So god damn easy.

greenfire312

jsxshadow wrote: »

@greenfire312 Easy fix. They just need to release an Arena (preferably X-Server) in Which anyone has equalized gear and PvP til they drop. They can also revamp some useless items to be used in there to trade for charms and such...that would save this game. People can still gear up as they wanna compete for TW, xTW and arena. So god damn easy.

I would definitely support any idea like this, but I'm a little mystified why you think it would save the game on its own. What problem does this solve, exactly? The "keep people interested" problem? Because even if we assume that people are bored with TW and wouldn't play it if there were a balanced alternative... then what do they stick around for afterwards? The unbalanced PVP? The PVE content which they no-doubt got bored of previously and don't need to farm for the new instance anyway? I think what you'd wind up with is a part-time playerbase that shows up for the new instance and then afks or logs out the rest of the week.

More importantly, it does nothing to address PVE power creep and F2P farming, which is the larger issue as PVE is the core of the game. The lack of these fixes is ultimately what causes most people to leave the game, or at least not care about PVP.

tek1nig

jsxshadow wrote: »

tek1nig wrote: »

mistressani wrote: »

What's even more peeving is here we are compling a list of bugs and issues which gets longer by the day yet the main red flag issue hasn't been resolved, if we're waiting so long to see an issue labelled as an "emergency" to be handled, one has to wonder how long minor issues would take to be solved ,meanwhile the player base is decilinging as time goes by without even a proper statement.

Maybe players would be a little more understanding and more willingly to stick around if a little time be taken to provide some offical information.

Loggically speaking anyone would want to know why their state/country was thrown into a state of emergency in real life and be more accepting of the proceedures taken likewise same goes for PWI, also while we're waiting for the matter to be handled by the company we too could take steps on our end to help protect ourselves as much as we can. But unless the true gravity of the situation is conveyed to us we're just left in the dark.This isn't a very nice feeling.

A dismal February for PWI indeed. I haven't seen so many people quit in such droves since they merged Harshlands USA into Morai EU.

Really? I hardly notice a difference during the times I am online with the exception of less cat-shops in Archo ofc.

During USA Timezone I am unable to make Uncharted Paradise / Dawnlight Hall - or even generate a squad to do Haspon. My timezone is depleted. With all the new events benefiting only the EU players I can't expect even I would stay much longer... The entire Wonderland expansion - I can't even participate to get titles as the time slots are all before reset when i'm at school ...​​

mistressani

Maybe for an upcoming tweak to the Wonderland they would remove the time schedule barriers as well as add in an option to do some of the events in Solo Mode against Npc powered opponents seeing that this is suppose be a recreational add on at each player's own leisurely time frame.

armoftheland33

greenfire312 wrote: »

Yeeeah, if they were gonna pull the plug already, they're not gonna suddenly get cold feet on it just on the risk that some rando gets personally offended and sues. Pretty sure they're losing more money on all this stuff they're doing right now than they would on the legal fees of a case that gets thrown out, anyway.

Yeah I agree, It's not the only reason or the reason... I don't really know what a good reason would be for holding off unless China is feeding PWE crumbs until x moment in time to keep stringing the game along. I do think a reason (or several) exist though.

greenfire312 wrote: »

Well, at this point there aren't a lot of ways forward in terms of gear and content. Does any of that require **** over F2P players? Not really. So I can see the shred of logic behind the "malice" angle, but I'd still bet ten to one on stupidity.

Stupidity, or a lack of knowledge about our society/community compared to China. Never mind, I'll still call that stupidity because it's not like the player base hasn't been forthcoming with opinions and ideas to improve the game.

Personally, if this was years ago, I would have changed the game from pay to win to pay to play years ago. Eliminate the cash shop items that are linked to progression or gear, enable free to play "trial" a la another popular asian MMO up to x levels, and implement a monthly fee for all other content. R9 becomes farmable along with all other gear sets, and maybe even a rebalancing. Problem is, you can't do that now so (like you said, "power-creep-into-a-corner"). Anyone who has spent more than a dollar on their character's gear would rage quit so fast your head would spin.

The only feasible way out is parallel progression: Create diversity by releasing different types of gear with powerful, but different stats (for example, different weights of "rank" armor for all classes, a variety of status effects, buffs and debuffs, etc.) You can see this is where they are leaning with g17. They opened up a TON of options for gear that is equally powerful as r9. The problem is, the parallel progression we have now is still not going to work... because number one, it's still slightly too powerful compared to what we already have, and two, they locked it behind a huge paywall, too. So the parallel progression is still only available to the elite few rather than the population at large (if it can still be called large).

But, it's never going to happen - because China. So here we are. Please insert card to progress in game.​​

greenfire312

armoftheland33 wrote: »

Personally, if this was years ago, I would have changed the game from pay to win to pay to play years ago. Eliminate the cash shop items that are linked to progression or gear, enable free to play "trial" a la another popular asian MMO up to x levels, and implement a monthly fee for all other content. R9 becomes farmable along with all other gear sets, and maybe even a rebalancing. Problem is, you can't do that now so (like you said, "power-creep-into-a-corner"). Anyone who has spent more than a dollar on their character's gear would rage quit so fast your head would spin.

The only feasible way out is parallel progression: Create diversity by releasing different types of gear with powerful, but different stats (for example, different weights of "rank" armor for all classes, a variety of status effects, buffs and debuffs, etc.) You can see this is where they are leaning with g17. They opened up a TON of options for gear that is equally powerful as r9. The problem is, the parallel progression we have now is still not going to work... because number one, it's still slightly too powerful compared to what we already have, and two, they locked it behind a huge paywall, too. So the parallel progression is still only available to the elite few rather than the population at large (if it can still be called large).​​

I may have mentioned this somewhere earlier in the thread, but Perfect World was originally - before PWI - designed as pay to play. It's part of the reason it's had more longevity than most F2P games.

What would you have had them do with g17, honestly? The way it works, g17s5 weapons are currently about as rare as Rank 9 was supposed to be (anyone remember "you can only get MoGs rarely from TW?"). But as long as R9 (and hell, g16 too) is as ubiquitous as it is, any new gear has to be compared to it to see if it's better or worse, and is either sought after in a frenzy or summarily ignored, respectively. That's why most recent expansions have focused on features other than new gear - because, again, they power creeped themselves into a corner. There's only so many times you can tack another 10 attack levels onto that weapon.

Logically, the next step in the progression is to make HS mats much more accessible (like what they did with Warsouls). But if the devs are smart - and in this respect, they seem to be - they'll delay that as much as logistically possible.

zeevhaora

greenfire312 wrote: »

Call this a pie-in-the-sky fantasy if you like, but I've thought for years now that they need to make a new server without the power creep. No R9 in CS, no +10 orbs in CS, no instant 100 pills, heavily nerf several non-CS gear sets, and then smooth out the difficulty curve between modern and classic instances to compensate... just for starters. Obviously you can't nerf or remove R9 from the current servers without triggering The QQ Heard Round The World, but a new server would ensure that you don't lose anything because you don't start with anything to lose. Then after a certain period of time when people reach endgame again, you could offer one-time server transfer options for people to move their current characters over - with the caveat that any gears/etc that are unobtainable on the new server would be deleted, so people could make a choice: keep the gear they paid for, or play on an actually balanced server.

If PWE has any interest in long-term stability (and they should, because they've still got a gem of a game buried under all this trash), this is probably their best option IMO.

Loved this pie in the sky, greenfire!

One new server with a new start in pwi where devs / gms / employers can try no repeat same errors than wipe all player base in last years.

Kinda disagree with suggestion to one server transfer and think would be good even to PWE make a test: open a new server, balanced like your initial purpose, designed with suggestions of player comunity. Try it for a bit in a beta mode, maybe. Bet can bring old players back (and newcomers) better any other suggestion came from pwe employers minds.

Oh, and ofc: NO ARC REQUIRED!

tek1nig

Is anyone else exhausted with refreshing this page waiting for @kalystconquerer#0876 to give the response we've all been waiting for? ​​

mistressani

tek1nig wrote: »

Is anyone else exhausted with refreshing this page waiting for @kalystconquerer#0876 to give the response we've all been waiting for? ​​

In all that's happening and with their backs up against a wall there isn't anything they can do or offer without official word from China so it's not their fault really , I assume the chinese are still out of office celebrating

heerohex#3018

I'm hoping sometime this week.

But not holding up hope .

greenfire312

tek1nig wrote: »

Is anyone else exhausted with refreshing this page waiting for @kalystconquerer#0876 to give the response we've all been waiting for? ​​

heero200 wrote: »

I'm hoping sometime this week.

But not holding up hope .

Yeah. At this point, all I want is honesty. A straight answer. "Yeah, look, the top brass wanted to push the marketing stuff. It sucks, but it is what it is. If you can bear with us we actually do promise to make it functional."

It's still bad optics of the worst kind (mostly because it reeks of marketing taking over operations), but if you must do that, I can make my peace with it... if you fix the damn thing. As Sylen pointed out early in the thread, Arc has never been fully functional. And these changes have made it worse by creating a situation where force log is impossible. There would need to be major changes to Arc before it could allow force log and multiclienting functionality while still blocking direct client launches. But they decided to do this before it was ready, and we're going to continue to assume the worst until there's an actual recounting of events about the "culprit."

(And seriously - how much money are you actually gonna spend on code upgrades to Arc just to continue pushing your marketing in our faces? At what point does that actually pay off? It's patently stupid, even from a business standpoint.)

memegirl2

I have 2 accounts. One is my main and the other is my alt. I have no problem logging them in on ARC. Only problem is besides they cannot be on at same time, is after I play one account, I have to shut off my PC and resart then I can open the other and play. Not bragging just saying.
I have a thought about the secret person or persons causing this. Just after PWI did this, and restarted the game. there were several players bragging about how to over ride ARC and get all their alts on and continue to play there main and alts. Why dont people who see or hear them brag, report their toons name to PWI and get them out off our game! Why do we have to suffer becasue they are bragging or cheating. Could it be, they are the reason PWI says there is still a problem of some sorts? Just a thought and no harm intended. Good luck fellow players hope all works out for us all

memegirl2

Could this intruder in our game be a hacker trying to get our personal information people?

nunuator

Idk why ppl are still having issues dual logging a maximum number of 2 is allowed and is still allowed you just have to open up task manager and force close arc to log into your other toon...

Many GM’s have said a max of 2 toons are allowed on at the current moment.

If you don’t understand how to force close arc or even open up task manager I’d say you only deserve 1 client ;P

tek1nig

nunuator wrote: »

Idk why ppl are still having issues dual logging a maximum number of 2 is allowed and is still allowed you just have to open up task manager and force close arc to log into your other toon...

Many GM’s have said a max of 2 toons are allowed on at the current moment.

If you don’t understand how to force close arc or even open up task manager I’d say you only deserve 1 client ;P

Guideline - not an actual rule - There to prevent abuse. Think of repeating that action multiple times putting up catshops every time the server gets a lag spike ... its horrendous because you have to do that tedious process all over again.​​

matthew4

how closed client why is internet crash im log back but acc is still log and all in Task Manager is all closed and acc is still online ?

armoftheland33

greenfire312 wrote: »

What would you have had them do with g17, honestly? The way it works, g17s5 weapons are currently about as rare as Rank 9 was supposed to be (anyone remember "you can only get MoGs rarely from TW?")

I don't agree with stringing along people in the hopes that they will get that 0.01% chance drop, or making them do events that will get them 499/500 required tokens before the time expires, or make them charge the cost of a car for woods for g17 from the boutique. And i don't agree with making progression available for the rare few. Because then you get into situations like this where we have like 20 op toons across all servers who will grind/purchase/exploit progression and the rest decide that 0.01% and the cost of a car is not worth it to them to even bother playing. I guess i have a fundamental disagreement with the game since r9 was once this way, too. But the more this happens (events that you can't earn promised prizes in, calendar year rewards that aren't provided, login rewards that don't function correctly, useless ticket staff who won't bother correcting incorrect tickets for time spent online or cash spent for reward events) the more it compounds.

Would i make changes to g17 and its availability? Yeah i could write an essay on ideas I have that would open up parallel progression in the game. Is it worth writing or reading? Not likely... Because feedback falls on deaf ears, and even if the game was suddenly perfect there are multitudes of other issues that would still keep players far away.

greenfire312

armoftheland33 wrote: »

I don't agree with stringing along people in the hopes that they will get that 0.01% chance drop, or making them do events that will get them 499/500 required tokens before the time expires, or make them charge the cost of a car for woods for g17 from the boutique. And i don't agree with making progression available for the rare few. Because then you get into situations like this where we have like 20 op toons across all servers who will grind/purchase/exploit progression and the rest decide that 0.01% and the cost of a car is not worth it to them to even bother playing. I guess i have a fundamental disagreement with the game since r9 was once this way, too. But the more this happens (events that you can't earn promised prizes in, calendar year rewards that aren't provided, login rewards that don't function correctly, useless ticket staff who won't bother correcting incorrect tickets for time spent online or cash spent for reward events) the more it compounds.

Would i make changes to g17 and its availability? Yeah i could write an essay on ideas I have that would open up parallel progression in the game. Is it worth writing or reading? Not likely... Because feedback falls on deaf ears, and even if the game was suddenly perfect there are multitudes of other issues that would still keep players far away.

This may be a fundamental disagreement between you and me, then. Because when you say "progression," I hear "power creep."

Rank 9 was always a pay-to-win set (even before R9S3 came out). As long as you have that on the table, someone is going to have an unfair advantage. That's the nature of F2P games (even though PWI got along fine without it). But personally, I'd enjoy NW a lot more if there were only a dozen or so players that I knew I needed to avoid, rather than, say, 60-80% of them. Increasing availability of R9 transformed it from a rarity into a commodity. And you can see the results in-game - gear elitism and "bare minimum" thinking are rampant, weapon links are demanded for at least half of the random high-level instance runs out there, and in general it is assumed that everyone wants to get Rank 9 eventually (I've been in factions where I told the officers I had no intention of ever going R9 and they'd look at me like I had two heads).

So, no - I do not want to see g17s5 go in that direction. I don't think you can make an argument for it that doesn't essentially boil down to "I want to keep up with the Joneses" (that being the companion mentality to power creep which makes it so dangerous to a F2P game).

tek1nig

greenfire312 wrote: »

armoftheland33 wrote: »

I don't agree with stringing along people in the hopes that they will get that 0.01% chance drop, or making them do events that will get them 499/500 required tokens before the time expires, or make them charge the cost of a car for woods for g17 from the boutique. And i don't agree with making progression available for the rare few. Because then you get into situations like this where we have like 20 op toons across all servers who will grind/purchase/exploit progression and the rest decide that 0.01% and the cost of a car is not worth it to them to even bother playing. I guess i have a fundamental disagreement with the game since r9 was once this way, too. But the more this happens (events that you can't earn promised prizes in, calendar year rewards that aren't provided, login rewards that don't function correctly, useless ticket staff who won't bother correcting incorrect tickets for time spent online or cash spent for reward events) the more it compounds.

Would i make changes to g17 and its availability? Yeah i could write an essay on ideas I have that would open up parallel progression in the game. Is it worth writing or reading? Not likely... Because feedback falls on deaf ears, and even if the game was suddenly perfect there are multitudes of other issues that would still keep players far away.

This may be a fundamental disagreement between you and me, then. Because when you say "progression," I hear "power creep."

Rank 9 was always a pay-to-win set (even before R9S3 came out). As long as you have that on the table, someone is going to have an unfair advantage. That's the nature of F2P games (even though PWI got along fine without it). But personally, I'd enjoy NW a lot more if there were only a dozen or so players that I knew I needed to avoid, rather than, say, 60-80% of them. Increasing availability of R9 transformed it from a rarity into a commodity. And you can see the results in-game - gear elitism and "bare minimum" thinking are rampant, weapon links are demanded for at least half of the random high-level instance runs out there, and in general it is assumed that everyone wants to get Rank 9 eventually (I've been in factions where I told the officers I had no intention of ever going R9 and they'd look at me like I had two heads).

So, no - I do not want to see g17s5 go in that direction. I don't think you can make an argument for it that doesn't essentially boil down to "I want to keep up with the Joneses" (that being the companion mentality to power creep which makes it so dangerous to a F2P game).

Pay to win means its not available from in-game means - R9 is fully farmable from in-game merchanting and farming. @kalystconquerer#0876 Still waiting I hope something is announced today.​​

armoftheland33

greenfire312 wrote: »

armoftheland33 wrote: »

I don't agree with stringing along people in the hopes that they will get that 0.01% chance drop, or making them do events that will get them 499/500 required tokens before the time expires, or make them charge the cost of a car for woods for g17 from the boutique. And i don't agree with making progression available for the rare few. Because then you get into situations like this where we have like 20 op toons across all servers who will grind/purchase/exploit progression and the rest decide that 0.01% and the cost of a car is not worth it to them to even bother playing. I guess i have a fundamental disagreement with the game since r9 was once this way, too. But the more this happens (events that you can't earn promised prizes in, calendar year rewards that aren't provided, login rewards that don't function correctly, useless ticket staff who won't bother correcting incorrect tickets for time spent online or cash spent for reward events) the more it compounds.

Would i make changes to g17 and its availability? Yeah i could write an essay on ideas I have that would open up parallel progression in the game. Is it worth writing or reading? Not likely... Because feedback falls on deaf ears, and even if the game was suddenly perfect there are multitudes of other issues that would still keep players far away.

This may be a fundamental disagreement between you and me, then. Because when you say "progression," I hear "power creep."

Rank 9 was always a pay-to-win set (even before R9S3 came out). As long as you have that on the table, someone is going to have an unfair advantage. That's the nature of F2P games (even though PWI got along fine without it). But personally, I'd enjoy NW a lot more if there were only a dozen or so players that I knew I needed to avoid, rather than, say, 60-80% of them. Increasing availability of R9 transformed it from a rarity into a commodity. And you can see the results in-game - gear elitism and "bare minimum" thinking are rampant, weapon links are demanded for at least half of the random high-level instance runs out there, and in general it is assumed that everyone wants to get Rank 9 eventually (I've been in factions where I told the officers I had no intention of ever going R9 and they'd look at me like I had two heads).

So, no - I do not want to see g17s5 go in that direction. I don't think you can make an argument for it that doesn't essentially boil down to "I want to keep up with the Joneses" (that being the companion mentality to power creep which makes it so dangerous to a F2P game).

Okay, let's remove progression, or power creep.

We farm end game, we have r9 cards whatever. Homestead is max. What should we do in the game?