Class Nerfs?

jsxshadow

@blazerboy do I really come off as that aggressive xD wtf. Well I guess I cant argue about something like that, not sounding aggressive but be assured..I never meant to be aggressive towards anyone. I'm just straight up honest without sugercoating anything. xD

@b3arz Please dude. Just stop. People just don't get it. If my Storm (with her current gears) would get oneshot by a Nuema portal sin with 50k base danage and 280 attack level then I wouldnt complain about the assassin class. I would just blame gear difference.

Go ahead and check my videos esp my Storm vs Assassin vids. WIcked is a full josd sin with pretty much equal gears and managed to hit me for 30k+ and that was before the cursed jail update and he has like what? 43k base damage and 190 attack level in Cotd? Another vit/josd sin Sizzz can oneshot @blazerboy through 32k selfbuffed pdef and duskblade buffs with Cursed Jail alone. It's been recorded. You can watch it and form an educated opinion.

Why do you even compare other people to sins? Especially BMs and Barbs? Take a full +10 Barb, BM and Sin. All with a +12 weapon and they fight a stormbringer with the exact same gears. Now if the Barb paralyzes the storm then the storm will most likely not die because barbs dont have that much of a damage potential. Mostly you need to chain another stun and paralyze again to kill a casterclass. Same with BMs. Sure they can para you, disarm you BUT their skills are not even half as fast as assassins skills are and have nearly no % damage adds. So even eith 35k base damage on the sin and (highballing it) 50k base damage on BM and Barb then the skill damage alone that sins skills have out-DDs BMs and Barbs nearly completely. Also, didnt know that Barbs/BMs could rebuilt 4 sparks withing 2 seconds and can literally trip spark 24/7.

The thing is..when a sin stuns an equally geared storm and the storm doesnt use ad instantly she coule be oneshot by the next zerk. BMs and Barbs need longer for that unless they are max damage built (deity/devil) giving the storm chances to get out of the lock. You certainly seem to not know how. Fortify and you cannalways break out of a bms and barbs lock. Timing that is. Fortify is useless vs a sin because you cannot tank a single 4-6 seconds stun duration. If purify doesnt proc on the first hit u are nearly as good as dead. That is if Cursed Jail doesnt kill you instantly.

Also a storm casually dealing 20ks on a sin? WTF? On equal gears thats more like 10ks and thats if the storm is deity and then she could get oneshot even in reaper form. Stop with the friggin gear differences. It's sickening.

The physical attack nerfs sins got are justified by the massive weapon damage multipliers sins got alone. sigh it gets really exhausting.

Can anyone that has not experienced 1v1 and mass pvp as a sin and versus sins on at least half the classes please shut up about this topic. Inexperienced fools try to protect their easy gg class by spouting out nonsense. Most comments are so heavily biased...I dont even... I'm afraid that most peoples experience is not sufficient to make their opinions matter in this topic. Easily recognizable by people that start saying things like "I get hit so hqrd bit dont hit back that hard" - as a sin mind you. If I read anything like that from anyone from now on then I'm just going to ignore that person forever. Seriously stfu about gear differences.

keihan007#7641

blazerboy wrote: »

Can someone summarize what this dude said? I'm not ganna attempt to read a wall of text. You didn't even try to separate paragraphs why you do this to us? I'm sure you made a point but come on edit that!

In short they are saying how every class is OP and if you die to sin you suck. Or that seems to be the gist of it.

blazerboy

Honestly @jsxshadow self buff 1v1 is not even the part that bothers me with sins. Most classes once they are attacking a fully buff char will at max without stacking a TON of debuffs on a char at max will ZC on equal or slightly higher gears like 15k and that was a dime a dozen lucky hit. I can be on YT and see a ton of cursed jail with just mire or EP hit 2k 3k 7k 29k on a fully buff equal or higher geared player? Where was the comboing? Where was the strategy? Atleast show me a proper stunlock!? Nope I have enough damage that say **** all laws every other classes must abide by. I don't want duskblades to be buffed their damage was lowered due to being able to CC around antinstun fine. But Sins getting the same and getting damage nearly doubled agian!? Why!? That's just cancer xD.

How can I watch Alleih video see him fully buff tanking many ppl np once a sin shows up get 1 debuff from seeker then14k from sin 10k 32k? Wth could he have done to defend himself? Also it was a JSOD sin who was basically equal geared.... GGWP I guess he needs to outgear by worlds just to survive a few sec after 1 debuff during full buff... this makes no sense @b3arz it's almost never gear disparity when it comes to sin skills just stupid damage index with sins lol. When you can watch a full vit stone sin through full buffs hit fully jades chars 10k-20k no issue while any other full deity char has to struggle to do that you have to admit something doesn't look right xD. Even if the only thing you nerf on sin force all skills to weapon damage the they still have 3rd spark spam and will out weapon damage most still where in the world is the "nerf" to sins... Has anyone actually 3rd spark click C and seen their base phy damage? As a sin it scales higher than most physical classes. Sins would be fine with either removed CoD or remake all skills to depend on weapon damage

dingo488

Wow this thread turned into the biggest sin circle jerk ever, sins arent even that good. Too reliant on tidal, weak AoE, no ability to reliably lock down a caster (currently), very ''meh'' damage. I think the main issue with sins is that people spent 5000$ on their new max geared DB because its a completely unfair class but now it turns out sin is the only class that can actually fight back against a DB, and now all the DB players are salty, cuz they didnt pay 5000$ so that someone can still fight back. We need to remove sins from the game, cuz else all our DB mains wasted all their money, they were promised a class that no one can even fight back against, wtf are these sins. We paid 5000$ for a complete PvE experience in PvP, where it doesnt matter what our opponent does, all we have to do is spam our strongest damage rotation and we'll win. Im very disappointed in PWI, why is there interaction between players in PvP in 2017, I hope the next 2 classes that get released remove that completely, maybe include some skills that disconnect your target? Has to go through tidal tho...

jsxshadow

@blazerboy No. You can still get oneshot by Condensed/earthen Rift etc if they just change it all to weapon damage. Those skills are ridiculously hard hitting too. That's why I implied that changing Elimination and Cursed to weap damage only would be a minor fix. Chill of the deep needs to be gone. Thats where the majority of the damage surplus comes from. 20x offensive endgame shards ahead of everyone. Way too broken.

Don't get me wrong. Full deity sins could still hit you for 30k+ zerkcrits on selfbuffs after triple spark even without CotD and Base damage % on those skills. However, now they would have to drastically sacrifice survivability since they can't be fooling around with tidal anymore since it would be gone Let sins have their OP damage but make them sacrifice just as much defensive power as any other class has to sacrifice as an offensive built. That is what I called fairness. Can't give sins both damage and tankieness which is what they have atm.

Cotd, tidal and base damage % need to go. All of them. Noob sins that can't cope with that can uninstall the game. Not that anyone would need noob sins. The great sins will still kick-**** after removing that junk. Cheers.

blazerboy

Actually dingo488 sins aren't even the biggest issue for db in mass pvp yeah they can fight back in 1v1 but mass it's like anti stun vacuity pot gg. A wizard getting in front of a db face in mass pvp fire proc 40k can be more effective in most cases. We are all talking about in the case of actual individual damages

jsxshadow

dingo488 wrote: »

Wow this thread turned into the biggest sin circle jerk ever, sins arent even that good. Too reliant on tidal, weak AoE, no ability to reliably lock down a caster (currently), very ''meh'' damage. I think the main issue with sins is that people spent 5000$ on their new max geared DB because its a completely unfair class but now it turns out sin is the only class that can actually fight back against a DB, and now all the DB players are salty, cuz they didnt pay 5000$ so that someone can still fight back. We need to remove sins from the game, cuz else all our DB mains wasted all their money, they were promised a class that no one can even fight back against, wtf are these sins. We paid 5000$ for a complete PvE experience in PvP, where it doesnt matter what our opponent does, all we have to do is spam our strongest damage rotation and we'll win. Im very disappointed in PWI, why is there interaction between players in PvP in 2017, I hope the next 2 classes that get released remove that completely, maybe include some skills that disconnect your target? Has to go through tidal tho...

What you just described is 100% not what Duskblades say, it's a carbon copy of what assassins would say.

Duskblades are not even that much of a problem. No matter which class you have. if the Duskblade sucks you might win even the majority of fights. We are talking about assassins stupid damage with which they could even 1-skill kill/charmbypass fully buffed people let alone self-buffed ones. I am complaining about the sin class because it is indeed the one class that has PvE level in PvP. They don't even need to use combos. No coordination needed. Just spam skills and ulti/stealth/kite away when tidal is gone, rinse and repeat. If thats not the biggest easy mode ever in a video-game besides god mode I don't know what is.

Why would you care that good DBs are nearly unbeatable for caster classes in a 1v1? You care about mass pvp mainly. If you take away all debuffs then Duskblades deal alot less damage than sins. Ofc, their AAing ability is massive due to unavoidable locks but thats that. Dusks have to pay attention to their surroundings cause as @blazerboy has already said: You get CCed then you get wrecked easily and fast if your genie isnt ready. Good luck CCing then debuffing then killing a sin through tidal/deaden/Stealth/def charms. Why would you need luck to dispose of a class. Something like tidal that blocks everything for such a high chance/duration shouldnt exist. 33% for 4-10 seconds max would be something I would consider balanced. Blade Affinity, Eternity, Myst self buff (demon). Those skills got the right idea. 60s with 66%? GTFO. 30k on fully buffed, equally geared people with a single skill? GTFO!

jsxshadow

@aradya6793 When def charms first came out I kinda begged the current GMs nearly as much for them to remove them as I am not begging for sin fixes. Not gonna happen. I would even appreciate removing double tick def charms along with auto-recovery stones completely. But since there are already more then enough macro-Tools around to automatically work as an Auto-rec stone or even better well..that'd be pointless.

Def charms are still not that big of a deal in this equation. Only sins can shoot through them. Any other class needs CC to get rid of def charms to be able to land killing blows and thats actually a good tactical component. The reason why sins can hit through that is because of the stupid damage they got. Remove Cotd + eli/cursed weap damage only and everything is fine on the damage front.

dingo488

I can literally go afk on any non-NP sin and I would never ever die, I dont know where this damage you guys are talking about comes from -shrugs-

jsxshadow

aradya6793 wrote: »

full buffed vit build bm on phys marrow
even if so, if you afk at a regular 2nd rb aeu with 20 apti chart and patk fates, you are going to get rekt​​

easily.

blazerboy

Wait @aradya6793 @jsxshadow this guys talking about sin damage being no big deal from a VIT build BM perspective? -__- are you serious okay the solution is every class should reroll stats to Vit build and stat jsod/vit stone this is a totally reasonable solution for sins gg.... Seriously...

dregenfox

I think it speaks more to the fact that marrow is broken vs one-type of damage only, BM's can build up their resistance way too high that even most sins can't break through. If he can go afk and not die then it's obviously a broken mechanic.

This calls for a nerf!

This thread is now about nerfing BM marrows.

eirghan

-gets out the pitchfork- down with vit bms!

blazerboy

Nah solution every class gets 400% base physical damage on most skills so we can 3rd spark one hit ppl add a 66% tidal for us all k thx bai

sylenthunder

blazerboy wrote: »

Can someone summarize what this dude said? I'm not ganna attempt to read a wall of text. You didn't even try to separate paragraphs why you do this to us? I'm sure you made a point but come on edit that!

I scanned it for language, but even I am not going to try editing that garbage.
Can't blame posting from a phone either, because the quote worked.​​

blazerboy

^ I welcome differences of opinions but don't waste ppl time please..

csquared5

Baby steps guys... ask for small changes you might get them. Ask for hacksaw changes and nobody will take you seriously.

dingo488

aradya6793 wrote: »

full buffed vit build bm on phys marrow
even if so, if you afk at a regular 2nd rb aeu with 20 apti chart and patk fates, you are going to get rekt​​

In what world is a vit build better than JOSD though, unless you are talking about stat-distribution, in which case I have 5 vit, so im not a vit BM (tho Str BM takes less dmg from sins than Vit BMs anyway). And a ''regular'' 2nd RB AEU set with a star chart with 20 apti and p.att fates...isnt that regular at all, and is in fact pretty much the same as NP. Its such an unfair comparison. I was talking about a sin with gear equal to mine. Maybe sin damage isnt that OP, but maybe sin is just the most represented class in terms of end game gear on your server (which sounds about right, its the same on ours). I remember a few years ago I would regularly get hit by 40k damage Gush, but that wasnt because wizard damage was so OP, that was just cuz there was a wizard whose gear greatly exceeded everyone elses.

elcopete94

@aradya6793 wiz ulti have same amply of subsea! XD

dregenfox

aradya6793 wrote: »

dingo488 wrote: »

aradya6793 wrote: »

full buffed vit build bm on phys marrow
even if so, if you afk at a regular 2nd rb aeu with 20 apti chart and patk fates, you are going to get rekt

In what world is a vit build better than JOSD though, unless you are talking about stat-distribution, in which case I have 5 vit, so im not a vit BM (tho Str BM takes less dmg from sins than Vit BMs anyway). And a ''regular'' 2nd RB AEU set with a star chart with 20 apti and p.att fates...isnt that regular at all, and is in fact pretty much the same as NP. Its such an unfair comparison. I was talking about a sin with gear equal to mine. Maybe sin damage isnt that OP, but maybe sin is just the most represented class in terms of end game gear on your server (which sounds about right, its the same on ours). I remember a few years ago I would regularly get hit by 40k damage Gush, but that wasnt because wizard damage was so OP, that was just cuz there was a wizard whose gear greatly exceeded everyone elses.

vit build as stat distribution, str bm takes less damage (but really a tiny tiny less lol) but has lower hp pool
2nd rb aeu + 20 apti p\matk fates its like idk the gear goal for the average player on pwi?

even if so 35k+ base damage sins (which means lower apti chart or smt) still will give you nasty zcs even if @ cap pdef... cause actually its not pdef or def levels that count vs sins its just all their stupid damage multipliers... lets say you are at cap pdef and a phys class hits your for 500 damage

if its any other class you get hit for 500..

but the sin crits= 1000
then zerks = 2000

then wolf emblem + cotd = 3360
then it's last tick of elimination (pre-rune) = 4000
then subsea = 6000
then he 3sparked = 10-11000

did i miss anything​​

Well just doing some napkin math a Sin using 320% elimination would be doing a damage range of 15-30k when triple sparked to an endgamed, fully buffed arcane char. Add subsea/extreme poison and gear differences, as well as combo points, and it should be very possible for a sin to get guaranteed one-shots against even targets with defense charms active.

Since elimination is pretty much all base damage, it would be pretty easy to say that 720% elim would do ~33.75k to 67.5k on full buffed endgame arcanes as a starting point.

Obviously actual damage numbers are going to be different...I was using a base attack of 35k, but since I don't play sins or physical classes I don't know what the damage range of an endgame sin really is.

blazerboy

^ my pixels are prepared to be insta deleted with no effort

elcopete94

@aradya6793 Dude i was talking about the 50% more damage we take while ulti

blazerboy

Sins need to stop acting like they don't watch pwi videos. Do you see anyone else hitting raw damage spikes like you... Really guys.. I know you don't want damage nerf but look at what you get next expansion. Friggin paralyze and not even a short one a no charge time one and if it's not a combo system like db even bettter.. You really think this makes sense for other classes xD