Class Nerfs?

dregenfox

aradya6793 wrote: »

dregenfox wrote: »

aradya6793 wrote: »

dregenfox wrote: »

aradya6793 wrote: »

you can. max level rune cursed is 3x base damage added and i believe 8 secs paralize

you just land it cancel and elimination ^^

Hmm, 8 sec paralyze + 7.2x elim right after does sound like it'll be broken, I'll have to look into those particular sin upgrades. That would be pretty hard to survive even with buffs.

current elimination is 80% 60% 60% 120%, 4 ticks in 2.7 seconds for a total of 3,2x base

next elimination will be 180% 140% 140% 280% in 2.7 for a total of 7,4x base
while you are paralized = no def charms

i am quite sure apart from HAs, you are lucky enough if you aren't killed by the very first tick, figure the fourth one xD

for comparison a wizard needs 2sparks and 4 seconds to land a 2x base damage hit (blade tempest)

this is like receiveing 4 blade tempests in 2 seconds
and with all the damage multipliers sins have, zerkcrits atk lvls wolf emblem cotd subsea 3sparks...

bah i am getting discouraged to continue to play, also because despite TNF it's weeks that i am literaly unable to purchase any g17 mat which relegates the class i am playing to the obsolete and completely off meta

Hmm where are you getting the damage info for elimination? I'm looking at asterelle's paste bin and it says base is 3.2x, you'd need 6 combo points for 7.2x elimination and 8 combo points for 8s paralyze on cursed jail.

rune skill upgrade will add at the 320%. 180% + 40% per CP spent

CP should be capped at 6 so yea max 6 sec paralyze and max 740% elimination​​

I think we're gonna have to wait and see how the combo point system works. If it builds up specific to the assassin's target then it might be ok, but if it builds up on the assassin itself it would be broken as heck. They could just pound on a barb to build up 6 pts then spark + insta-warp + eliminate for a kill.

Paralyze is moot since elimination would probably kill the target anyway (vs endgame full-buffed arcanes I'd estimate 20-40k damage depending on zerks, and that's just a starting point).

blazerboy

Any sin who trades the chi for cp sounds insane with inner but lifehunter yea gg wp this is accurate ^

blazerboy

Lifehunter 2 times since skill hAs like no CD is fine @aradya6793

blazerboy

As a sin I could never get rid of faith. If a good enough debuff makes its way around tidal it could spell doom for the assassin. I think lifehunter spam is just fine for CP losing chi from inner Harmony sounds very detrimental

padautz17

aradya6793 wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

As a sin I could never get rid of faith. If a good enough debuff makes its way around tidal it could spell doom for the assassin. I think lifehunter spam is just fine for CP losing chi from inner Harmony sounds very detrimental

but it can open to

lh lh (max cp)
3spark tackling subsea cursed (max paralize) inner (max cp) elimination​​

First of all there is no version of life hunter which gives 3 cp. Its either 1 or 2 cp in exchange to deal 300% instead of 600% additional weapon damage.

Also we dont know what the limit of cp is yet, do we? It has to be at least 6, yes because Inner Harmony can give 6 cp if used the right rune but its possible that the cp limit is even higher and we dont know how cps exactly work yet. Someone here mentioned cps might stack on the current target or on the sin, who knows - wish we had more informations about it instead of useless cry threads.

About your combo...yeah it might be op if it works in a real scenario but even if a sin can use it then its just a 1 time thingy and the sin has to wait till all cooldowns are ready and the sin can basically do nothing else till then since all chi skills are needed for the 1 combo - means no CC skills which you are also afraid off. TBH a sin who trades the awesome chi regen of Inner Harmony for what? 6 cps? That sounds ridiculous for me but ok lets see how it goes:

Here a list of usefull chi regen skills (base on sage version + upcoming patch):

• Tackling Slash - gain 50 chi - 15 sec cooldown
• Rising Dragon Strike - gain 180 chi - 30 sec cooldown
• Inner Harmony - gain 230 chi - 60 sec cooldown // gain 0 chi but 6 cp - 60 sec cooldown
• Master Lis Technique - gain 50 chi - 60 sec cooldown
• Shadow Escape - gain 100 chi - 90 sec cooldown
• Elimination - gain 30 chi - 15 sec cooldown

Skills which need chi:

• Subsea Strike - cost 200 chi - 30 sec cooldown
• Cursed Jail - cost 200 chi and gain 50 chi after use - 30 sec cooldown

Ok, lets say the sin starts the fight with full chi - means 399 chi.

"lh lh (max cp) 3spark tackling subsea cursed (max paralize) inner (max cp) elimination​​"

1. sin uses Life Hunter - 399 chi left
2. sin uses Life Hunter - 399 chi left
3. sin uses 3spark - 99 chi left
4. sin uses Tackling Slash - 149 chi left
5. sin cant use Subsea Strike because not enough chi - 149 chi left
6. sin cant use cursed jail because not enough chi - 149 chi left
7. sin uses Inner Harmony for max cp - 149 chi left
8. sin uses Elimination - 179 chi left

Awesome combo, right? Life Hunter will not hurt much assuming the enemy uses Def charms - 2 hits per Life Hunter - 2x Life Hunter = 4 Hits which are covered by 2 Def charms. Besides that the sin has to use Life Hunter at least 1-2x more often to get max cp and if that doesnt trigger purify proc then i dont know what else does it xD. So basically 3spark just for Tackling Slash and Elimination. Even if you use Rising Dragon Stike to have enough chi ready for Subsea...you dont have enough chi for Cursed Jail - so the sin has to deceide if he either wants to use Cursed Jail or Subsea Strike. Besides that dont forget the fact that EVERY good caster runs in cirlces like a tard after the sin uses 3spark to avoid getting hit, ofc and that means the sin cant use the chi regen skills and his precious spark most of the time because he spends most of the time trying to get closer to the target to use the skills (dont forget the amount of Life Hunter the sin had to use which will most likely trigger purify proc - means the caster can escape and run even faster). Also important is the fact that this scenario starts with the sin having 399 chi at the beginning. A real scenario will be different since its in the middle of a fight. And the bottleneck of your combo is Inner Harmony - means there is a 60 seconds time frame where the sin cant do much because most chi regen skills are needed for this one combo and yeah, no cc skills like Throatcut are possible since they cost too much chi which is needed for the combo.

As you can see sins will need the chi regen of Inner Harmony if they want to use more than just Cursed Jail and 3spark once in a while. And yeah you can use skills like Tackling Slash or Shadow Escape to generate a little bit extra chi but seriously, the purpose of these skills isnt to generate chi, yeah its nice to have it but Tackling Slash is to immobilize / stop people from moving and Shadow Escape (surprise) is to escape - means these skills will be on cooldown if you just spam them and the time comes when you actually need them.

TBH i didnt write down the list of chi regen skills without a purpose. I hope you find a better combo which can be used in a real scenario and not just once in a while in exchange to be useless because i want that my fellow assassins become even more op from learning it. Dont forget 2spark is strong as well and doesnt cancel stealth - might be great if you want to create some op stealth combo. Just an idea~

dregenfox

padautz17 wrote: »

aradya6793 wrote: »

blazerboy wrote: »

As a sin I could never get rid of faith. If a good enough debuff makes its way around tidal it could spell doom for the assassin. I think lifehunter spam is just fine for CP losing chi from inner Harmony sounds very detrimental

but it can open to

lh lh (max cp)
3spark tackling subsea cursed (max paralize) inner (max cp) elimination​​

First of all there is no version of life hunter which gives 3 cp. Its either 1 or 2 cp in exchange to deal 300% instead of 600% additional weapon damage.

Also we dont know what the limit of cp is yet, do we? It has to be at least 6, yes because Inner Harmony can give 6 cp if used the right rune but its possible that the cp limit is even higher and we dont know how cps exactly work yet. Someone here mentioned cps might stack on the current target or on the sin, who knows - wish we had more informations about it instead of useless cry threads.

About your combo...yeah it might be op if it works in a real scenario but even if a sin can use it then its just a 1 time thingy and the sin has to wait till all cooldowns are ready and the sin can basically do nothing else till then since all chi skills are needed for the 1 combo - means no CC skills which you are also afraid off. TBH a sin who trades the awesome chi regen of Inner Harmony for what? 6 cps? That sounds ridiculous for me but ok lets see how it goes:

Here a list of usefull chi regen skills (base on sage version + upcoming patch):

• Tackling Slash - gain 50 chi - 15 sec cooldown
• Rising Dragon Strike - gain 180 chi - 30 sec cooldown
• Inner Harmony - gain 230 chi - 60 sec cooldown // gain 0 chi but 6 cp - 60 sec cooldown
• Master Lis Technique - gain 50 chi - 60 sec cooldown
• Shadow Escape - gain 100 chi - 90 sec cooldown
• Elimination - gain 30 chi - 15 sec cooldown

Skills which need chi:

• Subsea Strike - cost 200 chi - 30 sec cooldown
• Cursed Jail - cost 200 chi and gain 50 chi after use - 30 sec cooldown

Ok, lets say the sin starts the fight with full chi - means 399 chi.

"lh lh (max cp) 3spark tackling subsea cursed (max paralize) inner (max cp) elimination​​"

1. sin uses Life Hunter - 399 chi left
2. sin uses Life Hunter - 399 chi left
3. sin uses 3spark - 99 chi left
4. sin uses Tackling Slash - 149 chi left
5. sin cant use Subsea Strike because not enough chi - 149 chi left
6. sin cant use cursed jail because not enough chi - 149 chi left
7. sin uses Inner Harmony for max cp - 149 chi left
8. sin uses Elimination - 179 chi left

Awesome combo, right? Life Hunter will not hurt much assuming the enemy uses Def charms - 2 hits per Life Hunter - 2x Life Hunter = 4 Hits which are covered by 2 Def charms. Besides that the sin has to use Life Hunter at least 1-2x more often to get max cp and if that doesnt trigger purify proc then i dont know what else does it xD. So basically 3spark just for Tackling Slash and Elimination. Even if you use Rising Dragon Stike to have enough chi ready for Subsea...you dont have enough chi for Cursed Jail - so the sin has to deceide if he either wants to use Cursed Jail or Subsea Strike. Besides that dont forget the fact that EVERY good caster runs in cirlces like a tard after the sin uses 3spark to avoid getting hit, ofc and that means the sin cant use the chi regen skills and his precious spark most of the time because he spends most of the time trying to get closer to the target to use the skills (dont forget the amount of Life Hunter the sin had to use which will most likely trigger purify proc - means the caster can escape and run even faster). Also important is the fact that this scenario starts with the sin having 399 chi at the beginning. A real scenario will be different since its in the middle of a fight. And the bottleneck of your combo is Inner Harmony - means there is a 60 seconds time frame where the sin cant do much because most chi regen skills are needed for this one combo and yeah, no cc skills like Throatcut are possible since they cost too much chi which is needed for the combo.

As you can see sins will need the chi regen of Inner Harmony if they want to use more than just Cursed Jail and 3spark once in a while. And yeah you can use skills like Tackling Slash or Shadow Escape to generate a little bit extra chi but seriously, the purpose of these skills isnt to generate chi, yeah its nice to have it but Tackling Slash is to immobilize / stop people from moving and Shadow Escape (surprise) is to escape - means these skills will be on cooldown if you just spam them and the time comes when you actually need them.

TBH i didnt write down the list of chi regen skills without a purpose. I hope you find a better combo which can be used in a real scenario and not just once in a while in exchange to be useless because i want that my fellow assassins become even more op from learning it. Dont forget 2spark is strong as well and doesnt cancel stealth - might be great if you want to create some op stealth combo. Just an idea~

Nice discussion but in all honesty there's no point in discussing sin strategy after the patch, just press buttons and you will be guaranteed to kill multiple people whichever path you choose.

padautz17

dregenfox wrote: »

Nice discussion but in all honesty there's no point in discussing sin strategy after the patch, just press buttons and you will be guaranteed to kill multiple people whichever path you choose.

Nice comment if you just want to be a trash talker and sin hater at the same time....
I mean you guys "discuss" in this thread the whole time how op sins are and talk about their op one shot combos to support your argument and i just point out what the mistakes and how wrong your way of thinking is and thats your counter? Okay. I guess i should just surrender and say "Its pointless" whenever something bad happens and / or someone doesnt share my way of thinking and my philosophy.

I guess to close this thread would be the best since "there's no point in discussing sin strategy" which is (right now) basically the point of the whole thread since its around how and why sins will be op with the upcoming patch OR you come back to talk about other classes because thats how it started.

Side note: "press buttons" - first of all every class has to press buttons to kill people and "any button" as well? Does that mean if a sin uses "Wolf Emblem" a few times that he will one shot a group of enemies? Sounds lovely.


Dont get me wrong. I think Tidal is way too strong and they should do something about it like they did for seeker who have just a mini version of Tidal but a passive which increases the def level in exchange.

About the person who said sin and db skills scale different. Correct me if iam wrong but all sin and db skills which are supposed to deal damage have at least "base physical damage" as modifier and base physical damage is what scales with sparks or not? It looks usually like this:

base physical damage + xxx % weapon damage + yyyyy

The weapon damage and the yyyyy value is optional sometimes but they all got at least base physical damage. The real difference are the 2 sin skills Cursed Jail and Elimination which have a % in front of "base physical damage" while noone of the db skills has a percentage in front of it except Rentless Drift which has 30% modifier and thats actually more to lower the damage than an improvement - one might say now sin and db skills dont scale that different but iam not that cheap since its not an improvement so yeah Cursed Jail and Elimination are the big difference here. Actually its only Elimination since you mentioned a few times to "cancel Cursed Jail after paralyze" which means only 2 hits hit the target - not sure if thats a big difference - the calculation of the new primal sin skills is weird tbh. I saw it somewhere but its not that every hit does the damage of the description - it is a combination of all hits together i guess - like Elimination where ALL hits together do 320% base physical damage and not every hit.

afaria86

You still need 2 sparks to use cursed jail...

You know you exaggerate too much, right?

blazerboy

I honestly don't hate Sins I just hate when skilless sin get kills simply because almost every skill they zerk can hit 20-40k on equal gear or slightly above average gear without needing even a proper stunlock or stack debuffs. I've seen some dope sin who have earned my respect ofc mainly the ones who can play with tidal down. But if I see you in pk and your own videos once tidal off and ulti off you need to stealth and fly in the sky sit there for 30 seconds than I'm sorry but you're the definition of what's wrong with the class. When all you need to do is sit and wait for tidal 3rd spark spam condense thorn,cursed jail, spellcutter, earthen rift (main skills to increase damage to stupid lvls) if all you need to do is spam this combo and hope for zerk crits with barely being able to stunlock someone even who doesn't use faith or anti stun skill then yea I consider you pretty awful.

This may sound harsh but prior elysium update sins had to work for their kills and actually needed to be good which proved who were very proficient now sin can solo near any class that's not HA and can do it hardly adding a debuff just raw damage GG...GG... Overall the only nerf I wanna see them get is damage reduced like dusk have gotten without nerfing dusk and archer further make them earn the kill agian XD okay rant over

csquared5

I went ahead and logged my old sin today, and furthermore had some elysian seals handy, so I upgraded his skills. Holy ****. 400% wep dmg, 400% wep dmg, 400% wep dmg. Harder hitting skills, faster hitting skills. Whoa. And I definitely am noticing the difference between sin and db dmg now. Still more worried about dbs, but the sin dmg is an issue. Had a sin in NW a few days ago do a throatcut on me. No debuffs of his own, I did have seeker defense level debuff on me. 32k to the face. Sin wasn't sparked, there was no extreme poison, no tangling mire, no subsea. Ouch. Also was carrying the flag the other day, and a sin triple sparked, did 6k 8k 8k 32k 16k (respresenting 4 ticks of elimination with last being zerk-crit, and an earthen rift which thankfully was only a crit). I survived this actually! To see how, check out my latest video. But by all rights I shouldn't have.

Now, could I see *any* other class doing over 60k dmg to me in under 3 seconds of just RAW DMG? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Not a **** chance! Again---raw dmg. That means sans debuffs. Yes many classes can pull out some wicked debuff combos if they somehow triple sparked and used white tea. But to that I counter, this sin coulda triple sparked and used subsea too, and then you can add 50% to the #s I just posted. This is just raw dmg we are speaking about. If I triple sparked and had my target fully debuffed and somehow got through defense charms... I might be lucky to do 20k crits, and I sure as heck ain't critting every hit. In 3 seconds, that would mean about 1.5 attacks, so maybe 30k dmg assuming all crits. So my dmg with all the debuffs I can muster is under half of a sin's raw dmg, no subsea included. Well then. Sin dmg could just be an issue. Thankfully the devs realize that clerics dmg is severely lackluster, and we do have some pretty useful healing debuffs. But when I think about the dmg mismatch, its obvious that clerics need healing debuffs, killing stuff is quite literally impossible for us without them.

I mean yes, sins are about dmg, its what their class is all about, whereas a cleric is so much more than just messing around in violet dance. But, as others have said, sins don't need quite *this* much dmg to still be dangerous and relevant. Why is PWI so afraid of nerfs? A lot of games tweak classes for better balance. But I think the last time I can genuinely remember a nerf to a class in PWI (a nerf that wasn't the result of adding a new passive/etc that affects everybody) was when they didn't allow assassins to triple spark in stealth and stay stealthed. There you have it folks, the only class that got a true nerf, and yes, its still the class that needs a nerf. Come on devs, do your due diligence!

jsxshadow

Indeed,

so you see @kalystconquerer#0876 All the best, most experienced and longest playing players say the same when it comes to Assassins. they are just too overpowered. they have no balance to them whatsoever. They are not glass cannons because tidal and deaden nerves lets them stay alive forever and their damage is far overboard even for a glass cannon class.

I once uplaoded a video fighting the best Wizard from our server (both in terms of gears and skill) with my Duskblade and Domino said that he might wanna get some nerfs in for the Duskblade class because despite having a ultra-high gear difference I was still able to win pretty easily. Now nothing really has happened with Duskblades but at least CN doesnt break them more and more.

If you allow me to lend a friends Assassin I will do a compilation and showcase how stupidly ridiculous OP the assassin class is! Ofc you wont allow me to but please understand that I dont have the time to get the 8th r9 char ._.

When you look at the updates we already gotten and whats to come, please Kaly. We beg you to do what is necessary. Please, if you can, talk some sense into CN. They can't tell me that sins are less OP on their server as our server are nearly identical now and the max 10% additional damage sins could deal in our version make no difference in the grand scheme of things.

Adding a 30 def lvl blessing would help surviving sins..but not much. However, as tidal still exists..increasing the survivability for a sin will tenfold with all the skills he can use to stay alive.

So the fixes sins should get now and after the next update:

1. Remove Tidal completely. You can add a 25% tidal on focused mind and make it independent of sage/Demon so it gives both at the same time. That would be OK since 25% doesnt work nearly as much as 66%.
2. Remove Chill of the Deep. Assassins damage and CC allows them to still kill anything pretty damn easy even without the extra 40 attack level. At the very least nerf it down to 15-20 max.
3. Remove all % gain on base damage from every skill and transform it into Weapon damage %.

Also, to further balance out all the classes:

Please add a anti-paralyze effect to the game. Just transforming the genie skill Fortify in a way that it also blocks Paralyze would already balance it out extremely well. Sure, the skill has a low duration anyways BUT it would allow you to break free and to counterattack when you normally could do nothing at all. It would still require skill and couldnt be abused which is why there should be no point against making Fortify anti-paralyze.

Trust us @kalystconquerer#0876 You know that we are the ones thinking about this game the most and have the most experience. You can trust us. Please feel free to invite me to the test server and I show you the full extend on why we need those fixes.

mooglemonger

Lol wow just delete the sin class then. Clearly this is all these forum goers that advocate for 'balance' want. Sure I hit other endgame players for 30k +. I believe I know how to play well enough (sorry but no class in this game is hard to play nor requires deep thought/knowledge to get results). I got my double r/aed candleflame set and maxed star chart on top of the r9 gear that almost everyone has. Honestly I expect to hit that hard, I put that effort into it.

To me it seems at least on Etherblade where I play alot of players don't have the card set or the starchart so they still are squishy... Don't get me wrong there's still tonnes of people who have similar gear to me but the have nots are majority and well not my fault.

So it is still a gear imbalance and well the powercreep will keep creeping. Either you keep up or be happy with where your at. Don't always have to look at what the guy next to you has...

I'm only replying to these threads because I see "OMG nerf nerf *insert GMs tag here*" and I believe if the tagged GM's have any influence on future expansions and altering them ( balance inquiries) then they should read the other side of the argument too.

dregenfox

K sins are a bit strong I can say that but all 3 of those nerfs together would turn them into a trash class, worse than seekers. I would honestly just be satisfied with not giving them a 720% elimination and no paralyze next update.

Alternatively, PWI could just admit that they WANT sins to be op because they're the "main pvp class" and just increase elimination to 1500%, remove CD, and just be done with it.

jsxshadow

@mooglemonger We are only talking about equal gears here. I can say it to you for the 10th time. GEAR DOES NOT MATTER.

@dregenfox wut? As bad as Seeker? You havnt overslept the latest update have you? The latest update turned seeler from already strong into one of the top classes. Thing is..to be a great seeker you need to be a great player and not many seekerplayer are that. Quite the opposite.

All 3 nerfs are appropriate. Why? Cause even without them I know I would still destroy any other class in a 1v1 just as easily with a sin (cept for dusks as long as there is no para counter but I still wouldnt be chanceless). Base damage multi only applies to Cursed and elimination...changing that to weap damage hardly lowers the overall damage by alot. Cotd should've never existed just as Tidal. So

mooglemonger

@jsxshadow sure you said sin can have enough gear, equal or better gear, and the shards don't matter ( yes I reread this whole thread. I had to make sure I wasn't losing it). Also unbuffed 1vs1's your sb gets rekt against a sin.

I have not seen you say at any point since I've paid attention to these recent nerf threads that your talking equal gear. Besides how do you actually determine this, how do you always find sins with equal gear to 1vs1? Sure you probably know sins in the same gear range but to complain about your sb, not really a 1vs1 class, losing to a similar geared sin, obviously a 1vs1 class, I'm sorry but to me it just seems like theremight be some frusturation in trying to counter the '1vs1' class in a 1vs1.

Honestly to even say a sin can run into a group of people legit same gear, if were talking gear we are going all the way similar everything and your going to tell me that the sin wrecks everything?

Playing a sin myself that is not true. That has never happened. I don't just go into a mass pk situation and solo a squad of +/- ish equal geared players. It don't work like that, maybe a couple die before I escape or die myself but thats about it.

I'm sorry but your nerf arguments are a little too open ended. Being the geared unskilled sin that I am ( this would qualify me to be the type that your trying to argue) in reading this I see a few loopholes in this.

eirghan

jsxshadow wrote: »

The latest update turned seeler from already strong into one of the top classes.

I think youre probably the only one on the forums with that opinion.​​

dregenfox

jsxshadow wrote: »

@mooglemonger We are only talking about equal gears here. I can say it to you for the 10th time. GEAR DOES NOT MATTER.

@dregenfox wut? As bad as Seeker? You havnt overslept the latest update have you? The latest update turned seeler from already strong into one of the top classes. Thing is..to be a great seeker you need to be a great player and not many seekerplayer are that. Quite the opposite.

All 3 nerfs are appropriate. Why? Cause even without them I know I would still destroy any other class in a 1v1 just as easily with a sin (cept for dusks as long as there is no para counter but I still wouldnt be chanceless). Base damage multi only applies to Cursed and elimination...changing that to weap damage hardly lowers the overall damage by alot. Cotd should've never existed just as Tidal. So

I think sin would lose to just about every caster class since it would pretty much be halving their damage output as well as forcing them to take all cc's, on a LA armor class to boot. Deity sins are already taking 10k damage base from casters and have no reliable paralyze cc, they might be ok in 1v1 but they'd be unusable in actual pk.

As for seekers...they might be ok in a vacuum and passable in duels but I'm still taking ~2k damage from them per shot in mass pk, the rare chance they get a nice Zerk crit for 25k doesn't make up for the fact that the rest of the time they are largely ineffective. The only thing they bring to pk is damage, but unfortunately to win in pvp you need CC and at least somewhat-consistent burst damage.

blazerboy

Honestly when duskblades got nerf these last two expansions it was due to the fact we had many paralyze skills so they increase everyone's defenses against us in terms of our crit damage got severely nerfed and kept Sins high due to no paralyze but now you giving sins paralyze with more damage increases and keep tidal? I swear you will force balances on other classes but never touch precious sins. I have no hate for sins but you need to stop making their lives easy and leaving everyone else to struggle...

blazerboy

@eirghan agreed I don't feel nothing but SS slash from seeker and it's never the seeker who kills me with the debuff it's everyone else lmfao not sure why he feels like this...

blazerboy

@mooglemonger I won't be like @jxsxhadow and basically ask for deletion of the class. All I want to see is 1 out of the 3 nerf either nerf tidal ATLEAST down to 40%, turn all skills from base phy damage to weapon damage or make chill of the deep like duskblades demon moon chant 15 seconds only or cut it from 40 to 15-20% max. Idk about your server but I can easily name 10 endgame sins on my server who can hit people they are equal or below geared 30k without even being full deity and get out of anything despite being completely horrible at stunlocking, chaining debuffs or any even assist targeting. Just spark tab get jump mire spellcutter (20k) rift (30-60k) on a full buff equal gear person? What kinda bull is this? Then get ganked by 5-10 people then use skills like ultimate, stealth for charm tick or spark run to safe zone without pot or genie just because tidal basically shoots everyone trying to CC the sin the bird. Not even Duskblade can do this with umbral stalker because if he gets 1 stun before he clicks umbral he's most likely getting deleted without pot or genie. All I'm saying is 1/3 and sin would still be fine. Idk about your server but DA is flooded with endgame sins and maybe at max 3-5 are even decent but all of them can do whatever the hell they want agianst ppl equal or who highly outgear them? No class gets away with so much nonsense as sin personally I want tidal to suffer down to 40% most but I will gladly take all base damage changed to weapon or COD take a major reduction because this just isn't right when you can do whatever you want with a fully aresenal

mooglemonger

I think alot of these scenarios are slightly exaggerated...

I'm going to agree to do disagree with these recent nerf threads. I don't want to say anyone is wrong, your experiences are your experiences but its only one side.

blazerboy

^ that's fair but when other sins say sin damage broken I laugh lol

b3arz

Assassin's have already been nerfed. I guess know one pays attension to Physical Attack boosts on an Assassin. Out of 12 classes, only 1 class got a nerf on all physical attack gains on Meridian. Neuma. Star chart. and Cards.
Even are weapon is garbage on Physical attack.

Star Chart: 2x Fate star Physical attack lv50 chart 10.0 fatestar is 803 Physical Attack, for Assassins, it's 603. So being able to have x2 Physical attack, that means we miss out on 400 Physical attack for star chart from all other players.

Nuema: All classes got 200 Physical attack per Destroyer and Battle, well, once again? another nerf. Assassins only get 150 Physical attack, so we miss out on 100 Physical attack in Neuma.

Meridian: BM, Duskblade, Archer got 280 Physical attack on Meridian, Seekers got 300 Physical attack, and Barbarians got 320 Physical attack. now for Assassins, once again lowest of the bunch, 210 Physical attack, so we miss out on 70 Physical attack compared to the other 2 CC classes in game.

War Avatar: 2x RA NP Destroyer and Battle for all classes give 1,622 Physical attack on each card. Very impressive amount of physical attack gain. 3,244 Physical attack gain for all classes except for Assassin of course. Wonder what Assassin could get you ask? 1,217 Physical attack. 405 x 2 less Physical attack then all other classes. That being said, that's 810 Physical attack more on all other classes.

Weapon: Assassins +12 r9s3 weapon is also the lowest Physical attack gain weapon in the game. Lets take a look at other weapons. You got Blademaster with 2159-3636, Duskblade 1998-2631, Archer 2722-3931, Barbarian 1889-3566, and Seeker 2126-2664. Now for Assassin 1682-2130 Physical attack. So that means we miss out on 477-1506 Physical attack against Blademasters. 316-501 Physical attack against Duskblade, 1,040-1801 Physical attack against Archers, 207-1436 Physical attack against Barbarians, 444-534 Physical attack against Seekers.

So all together, if you take the 400(StarChart)+100(Neuma)+810(War Avatar) That alone is 1,310 Less Physical attack over all other players. Then if you take into Meridian and Weapon, are Physical attack is extremely low in both of the circumstances. So what is this NERF you guys don't already see? 130 Physical attack adds 1,016 Physical attack to my Assassin. so 1310 less, just off of 3/5 of the nerfs above is 10,238 Physical attack? that's a HUGE nerf. then you got 70-110 Less with Meridian which is like another 547-859 Physical attack missing. Then you have weapon difference, which is just a dumb difference, prob another 10k+ Physical attack missing right there.

eirghan

I wish that wasnt a wall of text because the fact part of it was very well put.