Petition to remove Defense Charms from the game

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

seeker and clerics cant be considered slow casting classes wtf

blade aff + 1 sec chann+cast times

no cooldown cyclone

slow? wtf?

wizard is **** slow
mystic is **** slow
psychic is slow but faster respect those 2
veno, same thing

rest of the classes are the players that voted "Leave defense charms as they are" in this thread since they take a huge advantage from that

def charm cooldown needs to be lengthened to 30 seconds at least if we want to keep the double tick ones
this dph denial literaly breaks the meta of most of the arcane classes skillsets​​

zoner112012

Leave defense charms as they are

sylenthunder said:

zoner112012 wrote: »

Pretty sure thanks to the move of forums they added a list of new rules, one of which says you are not allowed to make petitions on the forums. I am shocked this hasn't been shut down yet as I have seen other petitions before. People were told if they want to petition change they have to go through the Support Center (lol).

well technically it's a poll not a petition.​​

Well the title says petition, and the only way to fulfill a proper petition is to get signatures/votes on it..so it's a convenient ruse?

capnk

Leave defense charms as they are

limonazza said:

mystic is **** slow

Do you even mystic bro?

chary

Remove the double tick Defense charms, but keep the single tick Defense charms

capnk said:

limonazza said:

mystic is **** slow

Do you even mystic bro?

This +1.

asterelle

I'd say the new charms are balanced by the new charm debuff passive.
Class balance is a much bigger issue at the moment. There is no real way to compete against new classes with a class from 2008.​​

jabq

asterelle wrote: »

I'd say the new charms are balanced by the new charm debuff passive.
Class balance is a much bigger issue at the moment. There is no real way to compete against new classes with a class from 2008.

pull out the power cable of the new classes?​​

booker27

dingo488 said:

A lot of people think sitting back and not dying a lot makes them good, but in reality they are wasting 90% of the class' potential by not using their tank stats to shield their allies.

QTF
not dying a lot =/= using class full potential and being a good team player

asterelle said:

I'd say the new charms are balanced by the new charm debuff passive.

Class balance is a much bigger issue at the moment. There is no real way to compete against new classes with a class from 2008.​​

Also true

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

capnk wrote: »

mystic is **** slow



Do you even mystic bro?

nobody plays demon mystic
at least on my server
also i dont even think AS pops defense charms so meh
and if you imply that mystic is all about NV spam, well i have bad news for you
and even if that, it's still slower than sin db seeker archer barb bm

@asterelle imo charm debuff passive balances out the HP +% passive
the double tick defense charms give once again an unnecessarily improved global tankiness which can be exploited by some classes while it won't change a thing for certain others if we talk about delivering consistent damage

classes f.e. like barbarians that are close to the 90k hp mark, they have solid shield invoke cornered and what not, they don't really need further damage reduction for 4 hits every 10 seconds
or again assassins, they are immune to debuffs and what not, deaden nerves, and now they just keep charms up and do whatever they want w\ anyone not even able to worry them while they can pop all the targets def charms with 1 single skill

the mass pvp comms in my teamspeak went from:

target X offgenie offapo offinvoke\tidal\w.e.\purged -> kill

to

target X used AD, used apo, offinvoke\tidal\w.e.\purged, someone pops his charms please -> kill

the meta doesnt need this at this point​​

blazerboy

Remove the double tick Defense charms, but keep the single tick Defense charms

-Having played a seeker for 4yrs since the class came out I had to settle this, this part is 100% wrong. While its true seekers can be tanky at endgame shards (full JSOD sorry Vit stone seekers are completely Err????? Considering they instant die from maybe 1 or 2 zerk crit hahahah) Anyways, seekers only only anti stun is in sage and it last what 4 seconds thats really a short window of oppertunity as opposed to other physical classes with anti-stun kinda smack in the face when SB have a longer one hahah. Anyways a seeker whos always in the front melee is subject to easily lock down by any control class once the rest of the DDs focus on that seeker its completely over while you spared your allies you also became a scapegoat because no matter how tanky you are jsod,+12, vit stone ect as a seeker once that pure procs you're done via control skills leaving you defenseless and DD atks this can happen in a instant assuming you are facing good opponents. Idk about you guys but venos love to insta purge my **** when they see me truck on the battlefield so why just run in the middle just simply die almost instantly for nothing.

-I take advantage of my ranged ability because it allows me to do decent damage while also being effective in compared to running in getting perm stun and dying being of no use or another issue the cleric must deal with why make thier skills range in the first place if the intended purpose wasnt for range and melee applicability. Any seeker full jsod, vit stone, +12 w.e who I have watched full melee bms,sins,DB, hell barbs (full str) were insta murdered because they stood there and let thier enemy control them with almost no defenses outside genie/pots lol
- Also people QQing about blade affinity magic us a speed related class news flash its 6 seconds get over it at most in that window you will cast 2 or 3 long channel skills maybe 4 if your really fast but no more which in all honesty with the ratio of skills and types doesn't add completely up for some serious stuff for ex: Blade Affinity + Ion spike + Battosai(Glowblade) + Heart Seeker, 3 Commonly used magic skills but only 1 of them will do full damage through def charm if you try that combo in any order assuming you arent ganking that target not so OP as people seem to be claiming almost the same would fall under the phy skills but you might get 2 full damage with phy skills but at this point in game nobody worth a damn in pvp or tw gets 2 shotted. (not counting edge blur because thats 2 sparks)

-So many Tank stats? You mean 1 or are you also refering to the 5 def lvl we can give to anyone still thats 2 lmfao last I check thats not that big a deal lol....

foley3k

When are people going to learn that PWE and the chinese developers dont give a flying **** about this game? They add to it whatever they want to generate money for the company. The game is already on a severe decline so doing anything that will cost them money isnt going to happen.

There are only really 2 things you can do.
1.Quit
2. Adapt

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

they should start to give a ****, because playerbase isn't growing at all and most of the current playerbase is really not happy about current balance

fact is if they want this game and community to slowly die they'r surely doing a great job by neglecting any possibile fix to the unbalance​​

armoftheland

I'm just shaking my head. Mystic is a slow cast class? are we playing same game

ayejay101

I think the definition of "slow" and "fast" vary so much here .-.

Defense charms always existed, it's just now that everyone is able to get them more easily.
Anyways, I vote keep all aspects of the game....​​

zoner112012

Leave defense charms as they are

What we need is to give DB varying cds on their stun locking ability to reduce how insanely OP their cc is. That is the real problem and has nothing to do with the defense charms. DB stun lock is crazy and even if they need to wait for times they have stealth and abilities that prevent you from targeting them to help wait down those CDs. This is what really needs to be addressed.

aphrodita

Remove the double tick Defense charms, but keep the single tick Defense charms

38 sins voted no.

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

aphrodita wrote: »

38 sins voted no.

ikr, like if they dont have too many advantages already

@armoftheland how does mystic deliver damage? NV debuff + AS, AS is 5 secs channel and 0.8 cast , not slow?,
unless you are demon and stack demon spark and rapid growth that's slow
but yea you can also just spam NV which is just 1 sec chann and 1 sec cast, but really? its like wizard just repeating undine strike ofc its fast, but no damage kek... you really won't kill anyone by just keeping hotkey 1 pressed mate ​​

eirghan

Leave defense charms as they are

I thought this thread was about how fast you can channel skills to proc a defense charm, not if those skills can kill your target. Youve just said mystic has 1 sec cast skill, but it cant kill anyone with those skills, it has to use long channel skills.

But then you say seeker is a dps class with short cast skills. But mystic and seeker have very similar skill set up. Natures vengeance has similar casting time to the three single target spammable seeker skills, rapid growth speeds up channel (like blade affinity, though yes not as effective) and they have a few long channel skills that are necessary to really kill a target (ion spike, gemini slash, absorb soul). But you are saying one is slow cast class and one is quick cast.

To me it sounds more a matter of learning the class. Dont try to proc a def charm by going in with an absorb soul if you can do it by a few good 1 second natures vengeances. Even wizard, notoriously the slowest caster in the game, will be able to proc def charms with a few undines or a genie.

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

you know right that the auto-def charm activation is % hp based

so only if you set the first one @ 99% and the second one at 98% hp you will have a scenario like that

but who cleverly does that? none

you'd rather set first charm 90% second charm 70% hp so you prevent mere debuffs skills to pop all of your charms...

but yea its more a metter of learning the class, proc def charms with genie right...​​

eirghan

Leave defense charms as they are

limonazza wrote: »

you know right that the auto-def charm activation is % hp based

so only if you set the first one @ 99% and the second one at 98% hp you will have a scenario like that

but who cleverly does that? none

you'd rather set first charm 90% second charm 70% hp so you prevent mere debuffs skills to pop all of your charms...

but yea its more a metter of learning the class, proc def charms with genie right...

Right, it is percent based. But not knowing at what percent your opponent has their defense charms set at is a challenge whether you are a toon who casts quick or slow. Basically, it comes down to skill and observation, no matter what class you roll.

In summary it isn't as unbalanced as it seems. People don't like them because they are a new angle that people aren't used to and they go "EW, CHANGE. GET IT OFF."​​

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

it is unbalanced since it messes up arcane classes, but i can get your bias you are a seeker np ​​

shade13

Doesnt matter i am an archer

limonazza wrote: »

it is unbalanced since it messes up arcane classes, but i can get your bias you are a seeker np

Do you realise removing charms will mess them up even more, since they also will be unprotected? Removing is the easiest solution, but not always the best one.​​

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

nope, they will get messed up in a lesser way since multi-hitting skills wont give the charm advantage over the slow channelling ones

Edit by Sy: Circumventing filters, shame on you.​​

eirghan

Leave defense charms as they are

limonazza wrote: »

it is unbalanced since it messed up arcane classes, but i can get your bias you are a seeker np

Well. Okay, then if you don't want to read... But just for fun so I can see:


Comparing Level 10 skills:

Absorb Soul:
Cast: 0.8
Channel 5.0
Total time: 5.8

NV
Cast: 1.0
Channel 1.0
Total Time: 2.0

Battousai
Cast: 1.5
Channel: 0.2
Total Time: 1.7

Gemini Slash:
Cast: 2.0
Channel: 3.3
Total Time: 5.3

So... 0.8 second benefit to seeker. and let's not mention that there's a 1 second all in insa full heal on the magic class. Yep. they are really hurting.

Honestly think you should rethink which kind of bias you're accusing me of. I play many toons, most often also a venomancer which is one of the slowest casting classes with no channel skill.
There are talks of 2 hit skills being what makes this broken (DB and sin) IIRC Seeker has one double hit skill. It's called vortex and it's a big shiney immobile blender that screams INTERRUPT ME that you can just walk out of...
​​

sylenthunder

Leave defense charms as they are

eirghan wrote: »

limonazza wrote: »

it is unbalanced since it messed up arcane classes, but i can get your bias you are a seeker np

Well. Okay, then if you don't want to read... But just for fun so I can see:


Comparing Level 10 skills:

Absorb Soul:
Cast: 0.8
Channel 5.0
Total time: 5.8

NV
Cast: 1.0
Channel 1.0
Total Time: 2.0

Battousai
Cast: 1.5
Channel: 0.2
Total Time: 1.7

Gemini Slash:
Cast: 2.0
Channel: 3.3
Total Time: 5.3

So... 0.8 second benefit to seeker. and let's not mention that there's a 1 second all in insa full heal on the magic class. Yep. they are really hurting.

Honestly think you should rethink which kind of bias you're accusing me of. I play many toons, most often also a venomancer which is one of the slowest casting classes with no channel skill.
There are talks of 2 hit skills being what makes this broken (DB and sin) IIRC Seeker has one double hit skill. It's called vortex and it's a big shiney immobile blender that screams INTERRUPT ME that you can just walk out of...

IIRC, Vortex hits 3 times when it procs, but it's once ever 5 seconds IIRC. (Been a while since I played mine.)
Edged blur is 12 hits, and ignores most defenses.

Archers have a skill that does 3 hits as well, but I don't play one so I dunno what it is offhand.

I play a cleric and those charms are what saves my **** half the time. I don't self heal (though I probably should), I just self-buff, WoP, PS, and GL when I have to take the defensive. Then I kick the **** out of whoever is hitting me if I can. (Which is a large number of sins, plenty of archers, and occasionally a barb with not enough HP to matter. I'm sorry, but when a cleric kills a barb in 2-3 hits, they're doing it wrong.)​​

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

a seeker that casts gemini w\o blade aff is doing it wrong, while on the other hand a mystic to have the same speed in delivering the nuke needs demon spark + rapid growth
3,30 sparks
wizard needs 2 sparks
-
seeker has it for free
sins dbs skills come with no chann\cast

balanced?​​

eirghan

Leave defense charms as they are

True they do so many hits, but these are also over a period of time. I'm no Asterelle so anyone can feel free to correct the amount of times it hits....

Mostly I think it's dumb to claim that I have a bias and therefore my opinion is invalid. It's a poll. I posted my opinion. so sue me. May as well limit this poll to wizards and call it a day cuz that's the only way people will claim that the opinion was stated without a bias.​​

capnk

Leave defense charms as they are

Absorb Soul is **** at high gear levels. It is almost never worth the casting time unless comboed with other skills (Storm Dance lucky proc, Demon spark+rapid growth). If mystics on your server stand around casting AS no wonder you think they're slow.

Mystic speed comes primarily from Nature's Vengeance but also using it in conjunction with the other attack skills (Swirling Mist, Gale Force, etc.).

Also being a caster a mystic will typically have a better channeling speed than a seeker. So just comparing skill numbers doesn't give you the whole picture.

eirghan

Leave defense charms as they are

capnk wrote: »

Absorb Soul is **** at high gear levels. It is almost never worth the casting time unless comboed with other skills (Storm Dance lucky proc, Demon spark+rapid growth). If mystics on your server stand around casting AS no wonder you think they're slow.

Mystic speed comes primarily from Nature's Vengeance but also using it in conjunction with the other attack skills (Swirling Mist, Gale Force, etc.).

Also being a caster a mystic will typically have a better channeling speed than a seeker. So just comparing skill numbers doesn't give you the whole picture.

Thanks. Was just pointing out they are similar in casting speed on paper since somehow mystic was being pictured as a slow cast class. Of course there are lots of variables including that seekers have lots of other slow cast skills (and so does mystic). ​​

limonazza

Please remove Defense Charms from the game

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA WAAAAAAAAAAT

and you guys told me to l2p mystic

how do you even pvp as a mystic w\o AS combos
you know that you can zero the channelling time (and the cooldown) of AS in 2-3 different ways?

and for instance i played demon mystic in mass pvp on private servers

rofl i need to link this thread to some friends now​​

eirghan

Leave defense charms as they are

I don't think I told you to learn to play mystic. I just disagreed with you when you said they had slow channeling then demonstrated why I thought the way I did. Then you proceeded to tell me that my opinion on the matter was invalid because of a prejudice you hold against my class. Now you are suggesting another mystic is laughable for his strategies.

Here's the way it is:
A high geared wizard can use a variety of skills and one shot me. I am +11 full jades. I didn't start a thread on the forum petitioning to get spark removed because its unfair advantage to wizards who already have a really high DPH, and then attack anyone who disagreed. It's silly that you are doing similarly here.

If this is a poll: Accept that other people have different ideas about the game than you do and enjoy agreeing with people who do.

If this is a petition and you are only accepting signatures of those who agree with you: this thread should be closed and sunk.​​