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Official Feedback Thread: Control Wizard Changes

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    abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Bug: Chilling Presence

    Chilling Presence does not give any bonus damage to Sudden Storm, Ray of Enfeeblement, Icy Rays, Shard of the Endless Avalanche, Arcane Singularity, Oppressive Force, and Repel when it is not in the tab slot (it does work on Repel when not in the tab slot--tested twice to confirm).

    All other spells were confirmed to receive up to 18% damage bonus from Chilling Presence.

    These spells not receiving any benefit render Chilling Presence mostly useless as they are the most frequently used, highest damaging spells.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Bug: Arcane Enhancement

    Shard of the Endless Avalanche and Oppressive Force receive no bonus damage from Arcane Enhancement. It also increases the damage of Arcane Singularity by approximately 10% and Entangling Force by approximately 30%.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,259 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Hey all, we are making quite a few changes to better facilitate control gameplay without giving too much control to damage dealing wizards. Players will now have to make a conscious choice on their class features and Orb of Imposition will now be much more competitive. In addition many feats will now scale with your damage bonuses so as you gear up they remain a competitive part of your damage output.


    Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Arcane damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
    Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat can now trigger on any outgoing damage (instead of only on Encounter powers).
    Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat now deals 15% of a target's HP or 800% of your weapon damage, whichever is less (up from 10% and 500% respectively).
    Control Wizard: Assailing Force: This feat is now properly unresistable.
    Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now benefit from your damage bonuses. They are classified as Arcane and Cold damage respectively for the purposes of calculating bonuses.
    Control Wizard: Elemental Empowerment: Warped Magics and Creeping Frost now tick every 2 seconds (down from every 3 seconds) and last 12 seconds (down from 18 seconds).
    Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now benefits from your damage bonuses. It is classified as Cold damage for purposes of calculating bonuses.
    Control Wizard: Shatter Strike: This feat now stuns players for 2.5 seconds base (up from 1 second).
    Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
    Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.

    Thank you all for your continued feedback!

    Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer

    Thanks, changes in the good direction I think. But I am worried about 2 things:

    - Renegade tree is very poor compared to the other 2, I suggest make it more "team friendly" making some feats like phantasmal destruction or chaos magic give bonus to alies, or at last Chaos magic, at this moment the best feat in the tree is nightmare wizardry and can be picked by other 2 trees.

    - How does Control bonus stat from artifacts (valindra for example) and companions (wisp or kantankerous mage) interact with orb of imposition? are all multiplicative? aditive? 5% from artifact seems ridiculous vs 25% from feat or companion. I suggest make the feat something unique to make CW unique, for example reduce tenacity, or a chance to bypass immune CC targets with control spells.
    Lescar PvE Wizard - Sir Garlic PvE Paladin
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    hefisdohefisdo Member Posts: 709 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Prestidigitation is not increasing the following stats:

    Action Point gain
    Combat Advantage bonus
    Stamina gain
    Incoming Healing bonus
    Companion influence
    Control bonus
    Control resist
    AoE resist
    Tenacity

    Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: This class feature now works as expected and increases control durations by 25%.
    Control Wizard: Orb of Imposition: Ranking this class feature up now grants 25% longer control durations.

    Wait... it increases the control by 50% on rank 3? Or 15%+5%+5%?
    (´・ ω ・`)
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    v1rus89v1rus89 Member Posts: 83
    edited July 2014
    (PVP)
    Ok for the changes to the feats, but the real problem is related to the unnecessary nerf to our single target spells that nobody ever used in PVE.
    We saw the multiple parses posted, time to tone the nerf a little bit.
    You guys should rework things trying to keep current builds at least viable in PVP:
    -Completely rework Magic Missiles nerf.
    -Rework the single target encounters nerfs.
    -Nerf Steal Time OR Sudden Storm and bring back Shard Damage like on live server,this way you won't damage Pvp players and it's no change for Pve ones since the overall dmg would be the same.
    (60% nerf is an overkill, you guys could've nerfed any other AoE spell, but yet you decided to nerf the only one that's currently used in Pvp)
    -Enlarge the radius of Icy Terrain to the size of other classes similar DoT encounters (like thorn ward).

    The nerfs to the feats are enough to cut the damage by a good amount, ffs you have any idea how hard it is to pvp with this class even on live server???

    The armor penetration fix is cool and appreciated, but i don't think that it will compensate for the damage nerf, because it already worked correctly on the majority of pve and pvp popular encounters.
    Virus, Enemy Team.
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Any chance of making Control Bonus also cut through Control Immunity in PvP? For example, if a class has 100% control immunity, a 25% Control Bonus would make that 75%. If CW's want to control in PvP, they'll have to sacrifice some offensive punch for more bonuses to control.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
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    hefisdohefisdo Member Posts: 709 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Can you please take a look at Maelstrom of Chaos for some changes, buffs or a remake? It feels very weak atm, it doesn't take place for a single target power, nor an AoE power for any kind of build. It really lacks in the feeling of "the grand daily of a paragon path"; it had some utility before some fixes, it felt like it was our weapon against control immunity... but now it's just "meh", and I don't actually know when I'm supposed to consider using it :(
    (´・ ω ・`)
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    sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    test on preview server yesterday night without changing anything on my character

    character: thauma way.
    spell: tab:ice conduct , shard,steal time, sudden storm. 1800 defense + 1500 life steal
    map tested IWD, mob + encounter + briggin

    1 first see: damage are cut by half, ice conduct become a non grata spell as it have very low damage, no more apply debuf, + because of the ice it make loose 10% of damage on the other spell. Assailling force is as useless as it doesn't exist most of the time, proc most of the time at the end of the battle + seems to be completly random on target while used with aoe spell. AS ice conduct is no more a viable option, if you do not want to apply chill to get the non ice bonus on your spell you have no option but let an empty slot. entrengling force isn't also a viable option as it do not do damage against control immun target.

    Against control immun target as briggin, you need to use again shield to block dammage as due to the lost of damage, you don't get back hp quick enough with life steal. it make fight last 3 or 4 time longer than actual server due to all dodge, run and life problem you have to lost lot of time.

    lag/ missing spell. No more life steal can save your life when you take big damage / due to lag or if shard miss or do not launch

    PVP part: not tested yet but as i was also counting on ice conduct to debuf target there too, i will get a 30% damage less there too.

    Thauma way is absolutly no more a viable way as it was mostly counting on debuf/big damage to shorter the fight and putted life steal as an help to get back. As you aggro mob you canno't anymore hope to launch steal time or shard to save your life and trade dammage done by mob vs the life you get back if you are surrouding by mob. You need a much much higher gs and equip than the map request to play this way

    As it no more provide a huge dps nor an help for the team with debuf i personnaly do not see any use of this character in dongeon better get a GF at least he will not require a constant follow by the group due to his resist, will provide more or less same control

    i will test this evening further more by adjust some gift to let try some adjust if it can but i feel really pessimistic. i wonder if even a player have a chance to do briggin lair when he first arrive in IWD if he do not have already weapon and armor enchant + at least 13k gs
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    gentlemancrushgentlemancrush Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 445 Cryptic Developer
    edited July 2014
    hefisdo wrote: »
    prestidigitation is not increasing the following stats:

    Action point gain
    combat advantage bonus
    stamina gain
    incoming healing bonus
    companion influence
    control bonus
    control resist
    aoe resist
    tenacity




    wait... It increases the control by 50% on rank 3? Or 15%+5%+5%?

    25% r1
    50% r2
    75% r3
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    abaddon523abaddon523 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    25% r1
    50% r2
    75% r3

    I've been working on an Oppressor Build so I will be very, very interested in testing this out. This would take the stun from Shatter from 5 seconds to 8.75. That is a long, long time to stun enemies if it works.

    Also a PvP concern. Start off with Shard of Avalanche which gives a 4 second prone, then use that time to use freezing spells to get them to Shatter which will then give a 4.3 second stun. Throw in Entangling Force somewhere in there and you have one frustrated opponent. Obviously Tenacity will cut those times down as will CC immunity. But even so, that's a whole lot of control. I like.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    hefisdohefisdo Member Posts: 709 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    25% r1
    50% r2
    75% r3

    I'm very excited for this but something in my head says it won't last long.
    candinho2 wrote: »
    You realize that u just change 6 for a half a dozen right?

    This change increases our DPS by a good amount, mainly on single-target. I don't know how you cannot notice that.
    (´・ ω ・`)
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    loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Bug: Frozen Power Transfer
    The power does not stack currently. If I hit one target three times with the third strike, I only get one stack of FPT.


    But the tooltip could also be misleading here. It reads like you get 5% per target hit (no cap) for 20 seconds and that bonus stacks three times. I think it's just three stacks max, at least I couldn't get more ingame.
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    loboguildloboguild Member Posts: 2,371 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Additionally did some testing with Thauma build and can confirm that the feat is a non-factor at 3% contributed damage. I did as much damage with Storm Pillar during my test run and I only used that one to trigger Destructive Wizardry.

    Also somethings wrong with the proc rate. It produces one zero damage hit for each actual hit and more often than not hits twice on the target (around 4k = 500% weapon damage). Also the closest proc distance was eight seconds, not 15.

    A typical sequence looked like this:

    - Damage Trigger
    - No Damage Hit
    - Damage Hit
    - No Damage Hit
    - Damage Hit
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    sapdragonsapdragon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Also, can we please make it so Fanning the Flame gets the 4 set bonus from the PvP sets. On live it doesn't get the time reduction or damage increase.
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    ahsherahsher Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    I just tested it here and it definitely does. Are you 100% sure? Are the targets you are hitting getting knocked into the air? I cannot reproduce this issue.

    I just tested again. No Chilling Cloud still gets to 6 stacks but will not freeze target.
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    iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    ahsher wrote: »
    I just tested again. No Chilling Cloud still gets to 6 stacks but will not freeze target.

    He was replying to the furious immolation bug report , not the Chilling cloud one , this is what the reply was aimed towards -
    Furious Immolation still does not daze targets when feated.

    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692711-Official-Feedback-Thread-Control-Wizard-Changes&p=8405841&viewfull=1#post8405841
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
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    gentlemancrushgentlemancrush Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 445 Cryptic Developer
    edited July 2014
    ahsher wrote: »
    I just tested again. No Chilling Cloud still gets to 6 stacks but will not freeze target.

    Apologies, I quoted too much of your post. Only Ray of Frost and Icy Terrain can freeze targets (as noted by the Chill description, and the descriptions of both of those powers). This has been true since launch to my knowledge.
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    ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Apologies, I quoted too much of your post. Only Ray of Frost and Icy Terrain can freeze targets (as noted by the Chill description, and the descriptions of both of those powers). This has been true since launch to my knowledge.
    Could we have Ray of Frost and Icy Terrain's freezing effect fixed? Their tooltips say they freeze the target when Chill stacks on the target reach 6. However, currently the target isn't frozen when Chill stacks reach 6 and has to be hit one more time by these powers in order to get frozen.
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    ahsherahsher Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    That would be nice, i think that's what the confusing part is. I see 6 and i expect Freeze and it doesn't happen.
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    relativityrelativity Member Posts: 246 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    One observation regarding Arcane Singularity nerf:

    Run CN yesterday, me renegade CW, 2x thauma CWs, GWF and SW). We have burned through mobs pretty well, but in front of boss fight it shows how no control CWs have. You would think that 3 cws (2 specced in dps) and 2 pure dps (well 1, since SW dced) should have no problems with controlling and killing off mobs. Wrong. Since AS sucks in only 8 mobs, the majority of them was scattered around, causing havoc. Even MoF daily did not help in grouping them. I can only wonder how bad it would be for other classes to have these mobs after them, since CW can no longer group most of them in one place for the rest to use their AoEs.

    Arcane Sing. has never done much damage. It is pure CC power, and a daily to that, which makes every class' life through every dungeon lighter. I've already heard voices of other classes that nerf of this particular skill does not appeal even to them. I'd advise to listen. Nerf to this skill makes massive mobs epic dungeons HELL. Groups need Singularity as it is. You have taken our damage away, leave what's best of our control in dungeons at least.


    Btw. we have made this CN run only because it was bugged. Everybody died plenty. Or stop fulling us, and rise GS requirement for this one 3 times.
    Bids he then the spruces to singer him an anthems!
    thief-glyphs.gif?w=32
    And the Woodsie Lord binders them fleshes to stone!
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    loboguild wrote: »
    Bug: Frozen Power Transfer
    The power does not stack currently. If I hit one target three times with the third strike, I only get one stack of FPT.


    But the tooltip could also be misleading here. It reads like you get 5% per target hit (no cap) for 20 seconds and that bonus stacks three times. I think it's just three stacks max, at least I couldn't get more ingame.

    It's per target hit. If you hit three targets with the last hit of CC, you get three stacks for 15%. If you keep hitting one target over and over, your 1 stack (for 5%) keeps refreshing.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
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    sygfried94sygfried94 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 264 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Arcane singularity.

    the low mob taken by the spell put him useless in dongeon due to the low amount of target taken but not only. The major problem of this spell is he have no effect on CC immun target. You would say well it's normal. well yes is normal but CC immun target drop the amout of target affected by the spell. The easiest way for dev is of course to re up max target, but that also mean that it can control the max amount of mob if no CC immun in the area. The second way to make it do not count control immun target if there is control immun target in the area. At least like that the spell will be able to group 8 non CC imun target and not a really fiew or none depending of the dongeon.

    So to speack when checking mob in area who will be affect, he should target first all non CC imun and if there is not 8 taken then affect the immun target for damage.

    the last way would be he can also affect control immun target too but that may be a little to much.

    And because CC immun target are often the most resistant it is not rare to end with 7-8 CC imun target in boss
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    mutanttoemutanttoe Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Personally I see these changes as diminishing the entire class of CW. Let me explain: This game is a MMO. As such we are meant to play with others. Having different classes means having different roles. When I choose a CW I expect that my role is to be able to do moderate amounts of damage but to many targets, as opposed to a GWF who can do a lot of damage, but to much fewer targets. This means that in a Dungeon Delv, where much of the map is battling through groups of lower level baddies the CW should, and does, shine. However, when you get to the boss things change. Now the GWF and other single target classes shine as the target remains around for longer. This game is based on D&D and this is right in line with how the table top game works.

    As such lowering a CW's effectiveness against groups by this extent seems the diminish the entire class. I don't think it is right to "compensate" by increasing any of the single target powers because if we really wanted to be optimally useful 1v1 we would have picked a single target class.

    Regarding PVP: I would EXPECT that with closely matched Gear Scores, CW will almost always lose to a GWF. CWs are not meant to thrive on 1v1. They thrive on 1v20 when the 20 are lower level baddies.

    So in PVP as a CW I rely a lot on my team for help. Just as in a delve my team is relying on the CWs to help get them all to the bosses quicker.

    Nerfing a CW this much because they do very well in a delve seems wrong when the delves are currently designed as wave after wave of groups.

    I say keep classes distinct. Keep nerfing to a minimum. If that means some classes do better in some situations than others I think that is a good thing! It makes me want to try all the classes! And makes me want to form good groups.
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    shamgar4shamgar4 Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I haven't tested my CW yet on preview, two classes moved over limit, so been testing GF and GWF so far. But i am not seeing how having Sing affect half the mobs it did before as a major issue. So take it a little slower, pull one room at a time? Maybe the SW isn't the equivalent of a DC in keeping you alive? I am not saying "L2P" AT ALL, please don't take it that way.

    I see the CW/GWF/HR/GF changes as all being tied together. They are moving CW damage to SW/GF Buff/HR. Moving GWF tanking to GF. Moving CW control to GF (not getting into CW pvp... A-because sing doesnt apply and B- i don't know enough about it).

    I see these changes as making more diverse groups, namely trinity groups, viable. But required? I don't see it. I have done CN plenty, on GWF, CW, GF. I think, even with less CW damage, and only singing 8 mobs at a time, it could be done well. I think it will be tougher, and stacking CW's, unless you go with a tank/healer, will be important.

    I am just glad to have the choice. In my guild, on VT, MC, T2's we run fairly diverse group. CN? We all hop on our CW's.
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    theace69theace69 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    a few obvious recommendations

    1) reduce other classes immunity to control or give powers chance to bypass immunity
    2) give CW some degree of immunity to knockdown and stun and root to make pvp fairer as all our powers are useless with our cast times vs their instant activate or gear that has this effect.
    3) AC for CW really sucks on all gear , cant this be increased?
    4) increase our hit point ratio more
    5) rework our high end powers instead of nerfing them
    6) answer what you believe control wizard should do in a battle really or change or name to support wizard as its all we can do
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    ahsherahsher Member Posts: 208 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Recommended fix for CC immunity is to just set damage so that it can not be mitigated while CC Immune.
    In doing this, there is actually a downside for the CC immunity spamming. They take full damage or it at least can not be deflected.
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    shamgar4shamgar4 Member Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Tenacity hit CW's too hard. Being overcontrolled is no fun, I get that. Can't we improve the control bonus from gear more? Won't affect pve much (slight improvement), but would help in PVP. Hard to balance to still be fun for all, but doable.

    Being a wizard in PVP should be an iffy thing. You are a cloth wearing, squishy, thing. You are control wizard, not OMFG-nuker wizard. It should be that if they are on their game, they can lock someone down. If they screw up... squish.
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    obsydian666obsydian666 Member Posts: 329 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I want to see only one thing- How people who are responsible for all those changes are making pvp and dungeons, seriously i wish to see their tactic, rotations, pvp "skill", all knowledge about game and see what kind of newbie in fact they are.
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    hefisdohefisdo Member Posts: 709 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Please color your feedback in blue, that helps the devs.
    (´・ ω ・`)
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    charkanramoncharkanramon Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I want to give other suggestion that can help a lot in pvp.

    Decrease the Icy Terrain damage by 25%, but in return, increase the area of effect. the ideal is to have the same size of skill Thorn Ward.
This discussion has been closed.